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Medical Forum / General / General / February 2005Substances triggering brain tumors (Parkinson)
Substances that trigger brain tumors can be used to cure cerebral diseases such as Parkinson and Alzheimer or oth degenerative diseases. A complete catalog of substances affectinthe different parts of the brain can be used, if they trigger neuron mitosis, to regenerate diseased tisuue, to couteract the natural death of neurones and to *increase* intelligence. Quantities can be dosified to contrlo the spread of the tumrs. Unless and until adequate subsances penerating the brain barrier and specific to particular zones of the brain are ound, these kind of treatments would only be useful for old and hopeless patients. I wonder if some drugs, such as hallucinogens or, probably, THC, can used or have been tested for this kind of effects. Ideally, some substance must be foun that inhinits the *inhibitibg* factors of neurone mitosis, and which would create one time mitosis (since the inhibiting factors would only be inhibited while the substance remains in the system), therefore establishing a lineal farmacodynamic between dosification and effects. Such kind of medications should not accumulate (be dissolved in grease) in the brain to avoid uncontrolled tumors. Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore at 36 (and without alien help!!! (8)> ) Assuming a basic efficiency in the coding of genetic mechanisms, it can be expected that the inhibiting factors in celluar mitosis are the same in all cell types that don`t express mitosis. In abstract, by comparing genes from both divisive and non divisive cells this inhibiting factor should be relatively esy to isolate. What factors determine the permeability of the brain barrier? Drugs share this characteristic, that they cross the brain barriers. Their structure should give a good starting point to investigate the properties of brain barrier permeable substances. At the same time, the binding property of THC can be used as a starting point to `connect` molecules to the brain tissue, so to say. Myabe by combining properties of this molecules in more complex molecules (depending n the reasons why the membrane turns permeable), we can devise molecules (even nanomachines) that, once carried into the cerebral tissue will release their `payload` or, through combination with other in-brain substances (sugar, water, oxygen), would transform into the useful substance that would uninhibit cellular mitosis. This kind of thinking (don`t know at this moment exact procedures or methodologies), may lead to some kind of `formulae` that can be solvable. Somebody knows how advanced is the use of mathematical models to the design of molecules? Food for thought... Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore at 36 (and without alien help!!! (8)> ) Can we erase codons? Particular codons? If the inhibiting factor is codified in a single codon and it is erased, we would have a modified neurone dividing and giving *normal* (non reproducing) neurones. Once an adequate mass is obtained, the modified, mother neurones can be erased (killed) to stop the process. By careful dosification this mechanism would create neurones at such rate that the self organizing features of the brain would make the difference in the mass, from a cognitive point of view, unnoticed by the conscious individual.We can also rely on the neurones, as long as grwth is suffciently controlled and slow, to organize in the mechanical sense, without forming lumps of oxgen starved neurones (though a brain oxygenator can be further used as therapy). Of course, this kind of tretment would be reserved for advanced age patients. Another path would be to attack specifically the proteins that directly inhibit the mitosis process, which again can be assumed as a working hypothesis that work in the same way in all cells. By identifying molecules trigering brain tumors (like nitrites), oth mre useful molecules should be `easily` found. Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore at 36 (8)> ) | Can we erase codons? Particular codons? Yes. See "recombinant DNA" Research efforts. | If the inhibiting factor is | codified in a single codon and it is erased, we would have a modified | neurone dividing and giving *normal* (non reproducing) neurones. It's not so simple. [The rest of what I'll say, here, is from my own studies, and has not yet been accepted by others. So don't re- ceive it as if it is.] The "genetic material" is, itself, "multi- plexed". Nothing in it is as a simple "on/off" switch. Rather, everything in "the genome" is configured in a way that is further "configured" by the 3-D energydynamics that occur within a cell's extremely-dynamic environment [in NDT, "standing-wave genetics"]. So, again, one cannot just add or re- move stuff from "the genome", because doing so always adds or removes whole complexes of of "the genome's" 3-D en- ergydynamics' tuning capabilities. | Once | an adequate mass is obtained, the modified, mother neurones can be | erased (killed) to stop the process. By careful dosification this | mechanism would create neurones at such rate that the self organizing | features of the brain would make the difference in the mass, What you're talking about, above, is literally intervening within evolutionary dynamics that have been "perfected" over the course of billions of 'years'. So it's =Hard= to "perfect" them, more, in a a research effort that's bound to a 'time' course of relatively-few 'years'. And, because of stuff that I've discussed earlier in my replies to your posts, it's Dangerous to attempts such. This said, there's a version of what you've proposed that occurs naturally within nerv- ous systems. Molecular dynamics within nervous systems routinely dip-into their eons-old evolutionary-'engineered' molec- ular repetoirs to "try stuff" as a result of the 3-D energydynamics that occur with- in them. Overall evolutionary dynamics are literally guided by such -- because routine repro- ductive dynamics are "selected" as a result of such [of course, to varying degrees. Folks like me have a "snowball's chance in Hell" of ever reproducing because we run too- far-ahead in the sort of molecular-tuning that I discuss above, leaving us "too weird" to attract a mate :-] In my case, I do it so that others will mate- wisely :-] | from a | cognitive point of view, unnoticed by the conscious individual. Be-cause nervous systems are necessarily so tightly-integrated in their functioning, this is routinely rarely the case. Even coming down with the flu alter's consciousness. | We can | also rely on the neurones, as long as grwth is suffciently controlled | and slow, to organize in the mechanical sense, without forming lumps of | oxgen starved neurones (though a brain oxygenator can be further used | as therapy). Of course, this kind of tretment would be reserved for | advanced age patients. Here, again, neuronal growth is, itself tightly-integrated within overall nervous system functionality. So doing what you've proposed will definitely simultaneously alter nervous system function in ways that are deleter- ious to overall nervous system function. But, if there's already structurally-em- bodied nervous system dysfunction, it is possible to eliminate such by driving nervous system trophic dynamics back to a 'normal state'. Doing so is =Hard=, though, for the reasons that I've been discussing. | Another path would be to attack specifically the proteins that directly | inhibit the mitosis process, which again can be assumed as a working | hypothesis that work in the same way in all cells. Be-cause of nervous systems' extreme- dynamicism, it's not so simple. Yes, there are 'stereotypical' molecular dynamics within nervous systems, but nervous systems 'just' do what will op- timize their global 3-D energydynamics, which includes continual "probing" with respect to "manufacturing" novel molecular- level dynamics. And it was to say =that= that I, smilingly, took up replying to the "Food for thought" that your posts constituted :-] | By identifying molecules trigering brain tumors (like nitrites), oth | mre useful molecules should be `easily` found. This's is Possible, but it's =Hard= to do. But I encourage you to continue to think Daringly. Such is the wellspring of Pro- gress. Cheers, Fabrizio, ken [k. p. collins] | [...] | This said, there's a version of what you've | proposed that occurs naturally within nerv- [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] | to attract a mate :-] | [...] This said, I Love, like everyone else. It's Funny. Way back, I looked to my doing of the stuff I've done in Science as the "means" through which I'd "be able" to give the one I'd Love [I 'knew' her although I didn't, then, "know" her] all that Love wants for Love. "Whoops!" But I Love her, still. Happy Saint Valentines Day! to her, and to Lovers, everywhere. You're in my 'heart', as is Hope that your Love will Blossom =more=, shining-brightly, "Light" in all places it goes. kne [k. p. collins] > | Can we erase codons? Particular codons? > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > complexes of of "the genome's" 3-D en- > ergydynamics' tuning capabilities. But conceivably erasing a codon will lead to some chain reaction that would eventually stop of its own accord. So even if DNA code is highly self-referential, the dynamic of deleting codons one by one can be eventually self stabilizing. Since we don`t have a DNA expression simulator (do we?), only by doing it we can learn `what happens`. It may be that the key is one modification apart. Maybe we can do this in parallel way, experimenting with cells deleting codons one by one, letting the system restabilize, see what happens... One such test might lead to what we look for. > | Once > | an adequate mass is obtained, the modified, mother neurones can be [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > in a a research effort that's bound to a > 'time' course of relatively-few 'years'. It would depend on our search mechanisms and our test functions. In this case the test is rather simple to begin with, we can neurones to multiply in a controllable (converging) way. > And, because of stuff that I've discussed > earlier in my replies to your posts, it's > Dangerous to attempts such. Dangerous? Depends on the security of your lab. > This said, there's a version of what you've > proposed that occurs naturally within nerv- [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the 3-D energydynamics that occur with- > in them. This being done naturally and (can I understand?) randomly, can alo be systematized by us. > Overall evolutionary dynamics are literally > guided by such -- because routine repro- [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > In my case, I do it so that others will mate- > wisely :-] What about artificia insemination ;) > | from a > | cognitive point of view, unnoticed by the conscious individual. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > is routinely rarely the case. Even coming > down with the flu alter's consciousness. A lost consciousness recovered weidly might be better that totally losing it. > | We can > | also rely on the neurones, as long as grwth is suffciently controlled [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > system function in ways that are deleter- > ious to overall nervous system function. Isn`t deleterious jumping to conclusions? > But, if there's already structurally-em- > bodied nervous system dysfunction, it [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > took up replying to the "Food for thought" > that your posts constituted :-] If this is the meat, can you cook it a little bit more? 8-O > | By identifying molecules trigering brain tumors (like nitrites), oth > | mre useful molecules should be `easily` found. > > This's is Possible, but it's =Hard= to do. If we automatize the process and use heuristics to control the search, it might be easier than expected. > But I encourage you to continue to think > Daringly. Such is the wellspring of Pro- [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > ken [k. p. collins] | [...] I did not notice that this thread was cross-posted to sci.med. I work exclusively in bionet.neuroscience, and have posted a reply to your post in that NG because the stuff I'm discussing needs the context of my prior discussions in b.n. k. p. collins (snip) > What you're talking about, above, is > literally intervening within evolutionary > dynamics that have been "perfected" > over the course of billions of 'years'. The meaning of Reason (read Alive and Human in my threads), is that it *covers* Evolution. We should be able to perfect dynamics according to our own goals. > So it's =Hard= to "perfect" them, more, > in a a research effort that's bound to a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the 3-D energydynamics that occur with- > in them. We should be able to derive rules > Overall evolutionary dynamics are literally > guided by such -- because routine repro- [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > > ken [k. p. collins] | Assuming a basic efficiency in the coding of genetic mechanisms, it can | be expected that the inhibiting factors in celluar mitosis are the same | in all cell types that don`t express mitosis. In abstract, by comparing | genes from both divisive and non divisive cells this inhibiting factor | should be relatively esy to isolate. Such genetic comparison is insufficient because the 3-D energydynamics that occur within mature tissue act back up- on "the genome". So it's necessary to understand these 3-D energydynamics [which are the stuff of the "extreme-dyn- amicism" to which I referred in my reply to your previous post in this thread]. | What factors determine the permeability of the brain barrier? That is still being explored. One of the regulars here in bionet.neuroscience, Dr. R. Norman, posted a general rule: anything that's active within the brain crosses the blood-brain barrier. There's a "cautionary tale" in such. One had better understand how and why the stuff that crosses the blood-brain bar- rier does what it does =before= one uses it in Medicine. This said, of course it's necessary to continue exploring this sub-problem, and to do so as thoroughly as possi- ble =in lab animals=. | Drugs | share this characteristic, that they cross the brain barriers. Their | structure should give a good starting point to investigate the | properties of brain barrier permeable substances. At the same time, the | binding property of THC can be used as a starting point to `connect` | molecules to the brain tissue, so to say. For reasons that I discussed in my reply to your first post in this thread, psycho- active substances are inadequate 'teachers' with respect to the deep Problem that you have brought up. | Myabe by combining properties of this molecules in more complex | molecules (depending n the reasons why the membrane turns permeable), | we can devise molecules (even nanomachines) that, once carried into the | cerebral tissue will release their `payload` or, through combination | with other in-brain substances (sugar, water, oxygen), would transform | into the useful substance that would uninhibit cellular mitosis. This strategy is old, and is the subject of ongoing Research efforts. | This | kind of thinking (don`t know at this moment exact procedures or | methodologies), may lead to some kind of `formulae` that can be | solvable. Somebody knows how advanced is the use of mathematical models | to the design of molecules? It's so advanced that it's being automated in many different ways, and in many 'dif- ferent' Research efforts. | Food for thought... Yes, it is. The "rub" is that the purpose of "food" is empowering work, and work is work. But "food" is the Necessary beginning of "work". So thank you for inviting us to the "din- ner" you've spread-out for us. "Dine" yourself, and work if the energy 'moves' you in that way. ken [k. p. collins] Some cannabinoids have been shown to have anti tumoral effects, particularly in relation to glioma. Probably because cannabinoids inhibit VEGF, thereby limiting blood supply to a growing tumor. They also have anti-inflammatory effects and it does appear that interleukin 1, at basal levels, plays a role neurogenesis; I think it is tied to NGF production but not sure about that. Given they are lipid soluble, these compounds will remain present in the white matter for sometime, depending on dosage. > Substances that trigger brain tumors can be used to cure cerebral > diseases such as Parkinson and Alzheimer or oth degenerative diseases. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore at 36 (and without alien > help!!! (8)> ) I smiled when I read your series of posts. All "break-throughs" happen because someone dares to "reach" as you have "reached". Doing so creates a "problem" that can, then, be explored in all of its specifics. So, in the spirit of your daring-to-reach, I'll joiny you by assisting in the necessary exploration. First, everything you've proposed is already being explored in Cancer and in recombinant- DNA Research, and in many other, less-well- named efforts. | Substances that trigger brain tumors can be used to cure cerebral | diseases such as Parkinson and Alzheimer or oth degenerative diseases. You must have "long arms". You "reach" far :-] | A complete catalog of substances affectinthe different parts of the | brain can be used, if they trigger neuron mitosis, to regenerate | diseased tisuue, to couteract the natural death of neurones and to | *increase* intelligence. Quantities can be dosified to contrlo the | spread of the tumrs. This "dosification" is problematical -- because, once the dynamics of uncontrolled replication are launched, they are self-sustaining. After the triggering of "wild" replication, one can can completely turn-off the "trigger" but the wild replication continues. | Unless and until adequate subsances penerating the | brain barrier and specific to particular zones of the brain are ound, | these kind of treatments would only be useful for old and hopeless | patients. Without completely-reified Science, the "cure" you propose will only accelerate their disease processes. And "age" is not a factor that can be invoked with respect to making such decisions. [I'm 'old', but my Youth is still fresh, and Precious, within me. So I'd "take offense" at being used as an "experimental animal", especially to the degree that being so treated would diminish the freshness of my Youth within me -- to the degree that being an "experimental animal" would separate me from that..] | I wonder if some drugs, such as hallucinogens or, probably, THC, can | used or have been tested for this kind of effects. Thalidomide, and things like it, are already being explored as you propose, but "halucin- igens" act in rather-different, being highly- specific with respect to gating stuff to con- sciousness, which is at a 'level' that's way- higher than the sort of stuff you're propos- ing must act. The stuff you propose =might= impact consciousness, in a cascading way, but it's molecularly-fundamental -- way 'be- neathe' gating-to-consciousness. | Ideally, some | substance must be foun that inhinits the *inhibitibg* factors of | neurone mitosis, and which would create one time mitosis (since the | inhibiting factors would only be inhibited while the substance remains | in the system), therefore establishing a lineal farmacodynamic between | dosification and effects. This's better than tumor-generating stuff, but it's still Problematical because nerv- ous systems ["the brain"] are extraordin- arily-dynamic entities. So anything like what you propose would also have to be tuned with respect to that extreme dynamicism. Nervous systems are Wonder-filled -- they are so Capable -- be-cause they "know" how to "tune" themselves with respect to this extreme-dynamicism that occurs within them, and which is funda- mental to all that they are. So intervening within this extreme-dynamicism is hard to do, and Dangerous to do. [For folks who have AoK, see Ap9 discussion of "functional multiplexing", which is a =gen- eralized= discussion of this Difficulty and Danger.] | Such kind of medications should not | accumulate (be dissolved in grease) in the brain to avoid uncontrolled | tumors. It's still not enough because any such stuff must be "tuned" with respect to 'instantaneous' nervous system dynamics. | Fabrizio J Bonsignore, now Danilo J Bonsignore at 36 (and without alien | help!!! (8)> ) :-] ~"Do not be afraid to build castles in the air. Build foundations under them." [Abra- ham Lincoln [I =think= :-]] I'll reply, further, to your other posts. Ceers, Fabrizio, ken [k. p. collins] It would be necessary to compile a complete catalog of the molecules (proteins) available in the human body and after a suitable processing find their location through matching in the human DNA code. It would then be easy to find modifications suitable for different processes by using automatized methods. The whole process (except, perhaps, providing the input for the cataloging) can be automatized in parallel. |
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