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Medical Forum / General / General / March 2005Urination
Hi, 3 weeks back, started urinating 25-30 times in 24 hours (including 7-8 times in the night) & had a mild pain in the hips - no other pain or burning. Went to the doctor. He did a urine test - prelim results showed negative for bacteria & the urine was very clear. However, he still believed it may be a UTI & prescribed Nitrofur for a week (antibiotic) & Phenazopyridine for reducing the urine till the antibiotic kicks in. At the end of 3-4 days, the urine was a little less (i.e. 15 times because of the Phenazopyridine). But I started having a very bad pain above the bladder - this wasn't there before I started the medication. After 3 days, I got the final results of the Microscopic Analysis of the Urine test by mail - stupid doctor never informed me about it. Again that also showed negative for bacteria but little traces of blood. I called up the nighttime consulting nurse (this was a Friday night) - she asked me to discontinue the antibiotic. So I stopped the antibiotic after 3.5 days of taking it but continued the Phenazopyridine. Sunday Night I stopped the Phenazopyridine also. By this time the urination was around 15 times, but I was having a terrible pain (this was independent of the urination). Monday, I changed my Doctor & went to a new doctor (I was anyway planning to change the doctor because of other reasons). The new doctor again did a urine test - again no bacteria (microscopic analysis) but faint traces of blood. This doctor also believed it may still be UTI inspite of the negative test. Prescribed Cipro. Also did a lot of other tests - blood sugar, & a zillion other things like Calcium, Sodium & what not, all of which came out good. After the first dose of Cipro the bad pain stopped but the urination continued. After 2-3 days, the urination was still there. Now I started getting symptoms which after browsing the web, I thought might be Interstitial Cystitis. I was peeing 20 times in 24 hours. I was having no pain while urinating, but I was having mild discomfort when the bladder filled up. However, I continued the Cipro for 1 week. The doctor had told me that I would be referred to a Urologist in case the urination didn't stop. At the end of 7 days of Cipro, the urination hadn't stopped. However, I had visited too medical problems in the last 6 months & hence I was rather frustrated & hence decided to skip meeting the doctor for a couple of days. 5 days after I had finished the Cipro, I still was urinating 20 times. The symptoms now were similiar to when I first went to the first doctor. Mild discomfort but the main problem was urination. Yesterday, I again browsed a lot & looked at very disheartening info about IC. However, at some site, I came across info that in some rare cases yeast infection mimics symptoms of IC. Browsed for Info about Yeast Infection - I had none of the other symptoms. i.e. no discharge etc, no burning etc. Some sites had written that eating yogurt with live culture will provide relief. In the last 48 hours, I have had around 12 ounces of Plain Yogurt with Live Cultures. My urination has almost returned to normal. >From every hour, it reduced to every 2 hours, & now to every 2.5 hours. So it looks like this maybe some wierd case of Yeast Infection & not IC or UTI which caused the urination in the first place. So does yeast infection get cured with Yogurt or does it just provide temporary relief? Do I have to take Diflucan or something? I have no symptoms around the vagina - so is this some bladder yeast or something? I am still not in a mood to go a doctor for a couple of days. I am on Continous Birth Control Pills for the last 3 months (Continous - meaning no 7 day gaps - i.e. no periods for 3 months now). 3 months back, I also had a D & C for a Cervical Polyp. Just before the surgery, I had had a UTI (tested +ve for bacteria) which was cured by 5 days of Sulfa. And immediatelly after the surgery & the sulfa, I had got a vaginal yeast infection. The OTC Yeast infection creams increased the symptoms, so they prescribed 1 dose of Diflucan which along with Yogurt cured it in 3-4 days. The yeast infection, I had then was not at all like what I am having now. Then I had the white cheesy discharge, a lot of burning etc. However, this time also I think it's some yeast, because the yogurt helps a lot. I am going to the doctor after 3-4 days, but does anyone have any advice before then. > However, this time also I think it's some yeast, because the yogurt > helps a lot. I am going to the doctor after 3-4 days, but does anyone > have any advice before then. Yes. Let a urologist diagnose the cause of your frequent urination, and do not rely on your own diagnosis based on what you have read on the internet. You may have IC; you may just have bladder spasms; or may you have something else altogether. You need to be examined before a diagnosis can be made.  Signature"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." - Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather > > However, this time also I think it's some yeast, because the yogurt > > helps a lot. I am going to the doctor after 3-4 days, but does anyone [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > have something else altogether. You need to be examined before a > diagnosis can be made. As I have said in my original post, I have gone to 2 doctors who did a lot of blood tests & urine tests & were not able to help me at all. > > > However, this time also I think it's some yeast, because the > yogurt [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > As I have said in my original post, I have gone to 2 doctors who did a > lot of blood tests & urine tests & were not able to help me at all. You had tests to check for a bacterial urinary tract infection, which were negative. You were treated with macrodantin and ciprofloaxin and remained symptomatic, so you referred to a specialist in urinary problems - a urologist. Consulting with a urologist is your best bet for resolution, not guessing on the internet. Signature"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." - Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather > So it looks like this maybe some wierd case of Yeast Infection & > not IC or UTI which caused the urination in the first place. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > something? I am still not in a mood to go a doctor for a couple of > days. No replies!!! Let me provide some updates. The urination is much better now. However, I am having a lot of fatigue, ache & body pain for the last couple of days. I browsed around, & it seems that this is called Herxheimer's reaction i.e. this is happening because of the yeast dying off. So there is a good chance that this was caused by yeast in the first place. Anyone have any advice for me - is yogurt alone enough to cure the yeast infection? How many days will it take it to cure? How will know it's cured? How many days will it take for the yeast die-off reaction to subside? >No replies!!! > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >cured? >How many days will it take for the yeast die-off reaction to subside? I think a far more likely explanation is that you had viral cystitis and are now suffering the constitutional symptoms (adenovirus and CMV are common culprits), assuming you are at low risk for chlamydia (you gave very little background information, neglecting to even mention your sex). Herxheimer described a reaction to treatment of secondary and tetiary syphilis, not treatment of suspected topical yeast infections with yogurt. PF >> No replies!!! >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> cured? >> How many days will it take for the yeast die-off reaction to subside? > I think a far more likely explanation is that you had viral cystitis Is it a self limiting condition? Or are you saying that it got cured by the Nitrofur or Cipro that I took? I got no relief from my urination symptoms when I was on these antibiotics. Also is viral cystisis detectable my microscopic analysis of urine? Because my 2 urine tests didn't show anything. During the last 2 days of my one week dose of Cipro & was still urinating 20 times, I took yogurt for 2 days fearing that the antibiotics will cause yeast problems (take care to space the yogurt 5 hours before the antibiotic). I had some relief from urination those 2 days, but didn't connect it with the yogurt. I thought that the antibiotic was working at last. Once my Cipro prescription was finished, I stopped the yogurt also & my urination increased again to 20-25 times. After a week more of suffering the urination, I started the yogurt again & my urination has reduced to 10-12 times in the last 3 days. > that the > and are now suffering the constitutional symptoms (adenovirus and CMV > are common culprits), What do you mean by constitutional symptoms? > assuming you are at low risk for chlamydia I haven't been sexually active for a couple of years, so I think I can rule that out. > (you > gave very little background information, neglecting to even mention > your sex). If you had read my first post, I talked about my cervical polyp & my being on birth control pills. http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.support.inter-cystitis/msg/799e8efa05df1157 http://tinyurl.com/4bb7k > Herxheimer described a reaction to treatment of secondary and tetiary > syphilis, not treatment of suspected topical yeast infections with > yogurt. There is a similiar Herxheimer reaction described for yeast die off also. Check http://www.vrp.com/art/266.asp Googling for Herxheimer & yeast gives many such other links. >> I think a far more likely explanation is that you had viral cystitis > >Is it a self limiting condition? Yes. >Or are you saying that it got cured by the Nitrofur or Cipro that I >took? Let me clarify: I don't know if you have viral cystitis or not, but if you do, then antibiotics won't help. >I got no relief from my urination symptoms when I was on these >antibiotics. Which would go along with the fact that you reportedly didn't have any pathogenic bacteria in your urine. >Also is viral cystisis detectable my microscopic analysis of urine? >Because my 2 urine tests didn't show anything. Nothing? In your original posting you said your urine had "little traces of blood." Viral cystitis often causes gross or microscopic hematuria. >> that the >> and are now suffering the constitutional symptoms (adenovirus and CMV >> are common culprits), > >What do you mean by constitutional symptoms? Nonspecific symptoms such as fatigue and body aches. >> (you >> gave very little background information, neglecting to even mention [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >being on birth >control pills. Actually, I figured it out when you mentioned your vagina. >> Herxheimer described a reaction to treatment of secondary and tetiary >> syphilis, not treatment of suspected topical yeast infections with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Check >http://www.vrp.com/art/266.asp Unfortunately, I wouldn't consider a website written by vitamin salesmen to be the most authoritative. >Googling for Herxheimer & yeast gives many such other links. Yes, many other such links where alternative propagandists promote the unproven nonsense about mysterious systemic candida infections that cause a whole host of chronic conditions in order to sell you their anti-candidal treatment regimens, complete with warnings about a pseudo-Herxheimer reaction so that, if you start to feel like crap from taking their products, you won't give up on them, but instead you will get all warm and tingly as you imagine you're winning against the invisible candida, and continue buying (literally and figuratively) their garbage. Again, misidentifying any vague, nonspecific, constitutional symptom (whether real or imagined) while treating phoney systemic full-body invasions of candida as the same reaction reported from treating syphilis with mercury has absolutely nothing to do with vaginal candidiasis. Women do not get systemic illness from treating vaginal yeast infections, whether topically with a cream or by something as innocuous as eating yogurt. Were I your doctor, I'd send your urine for a viral culture, do a pelvic exam and check for cervicitis, put you back on phenazopyridine and add Ditropan, maybe get an ultrasound, and if you had no relief, I'd send you to a urologist to consider cystoscopy and/or urodynamic studies. PF [snip] Let me clarify one thing. Though I was writing in the first person (for convinience), I am actually the patient's husbad. I came to the newsgroup out of desperation at my wife's condition. My wife has been suffering bad health for almost a year now (unrelated problems). My wife is 35 years old. She has had injuries, unexplained shooting pains in fingers & legs, sinusitis attacks (never happened before), heart palpitions on consuming some palpitations, 2 minor surgeries for cervical polyp, a yeast infection (with all the regular yeast infection) which was treated with a single dose of diflucan, upset stomach for 3 months, which refused to go away with any medication (this was even before the antibiotics - cured now) etc. She has been to the doctors tons of times in the last year. And many of the times, the doctor's medicines & treatments haven't cured the problem at all. She has suffered Sinusistis which didn't fully dissapear after 14 days of 2 doses each day of Amoxicillin & a steroid nasal spray. Finally when we went to our home country, a doctor cured in with 3 doses of Azithromycin (Zithromax). My wife has had like a zillion blood & urine tests in the last year. She has also had an ultrasound. As a result of all this 2 things have happened 1) My wife is tired of visiting the doctors/labs etc 2) She has lost confidence in the doctors in the US. We are returning to our home country permanently in 2 months time. And she refuses to visit any doctors till we get back home. And at this time, the urination problems started & 2 visits to the doctor, 2 urine tests & multiple blood tests resulted in 2 weeks of Nitrofur & Cipro which didn't prove any relief to the urination. After the 2nd week she was still urination 25 times. At this point she said adamantly that she will not go to a doctor or a urinologist for the next 2 months under any condition. She said she will bear any damn problem for 2 months. At this time, I started her on the yogurt - this was because last time she took antibiotics she had an yeast infection - a clinically diagnosed one with the regular symptoms (cheesy discharge, burning) unlike this time which was treated with Diflucan. At that time, I had read that taking yogurt with antibiotics helps prevent yeast infections which may follow a dose of antibiotics. Unfortunately she couldn't start the yogurt with the Cipro because Cipro doesn't react well with Milk Products. So she statted yogurt on the 6th & 7th days of Cipro - and 6 hours after the dose (6 hours before the next dose) to prevent interaction. She was feeling slight relief in the urinary symptoms towards the end of the Cipro dosage (which was also the 2nd day of yogurt) - we assumed that this was the Cipro working - i.e. urination 16-17 times. Then she stopped the yogurt almost as soon as the Cipro dose got over. In the next week the urination increased again, back from 16-17 times to 25 times (7-8 times in the night) & she refused to go to the doctor. I don't usually do herbal/holistic stuff, but now I was desperate - because she said no antibitoics, no doctors, no labs, for 2 months. So after hours & hours of browsing I came across a few sites which said that frequent urination can be caused either by "Interstitial Cystis" or by yeast. She had some of the IC symptoms - i.e. no bacteria, discomfort when urine filled up etc, but she didn't have the pain associated with IC - also all the things which are supposed to provide symptomatic IC relief were not helping her. Also since IC has so cure, it was disheartening. Hence, I concentrated on the yeast thing. Also I remembered that her original relief of symptoms coincided with the yogurt. And since she was urinating 25 times again, I was ready to try anything. So I made her eat 8 ounces of plain yogurt with live cultures. And immediatelly after this, she didn't urinate for 2 hours (first time this happened in the last week). Made her eat more yogurt for 2 hours & by now she was maintaining the 2 hours. Begged her to go a doctor again, but she again refused. So read some more about natural cures for yeast. Purchased Grapeseed extract - this supposed to help with Yeast & also against minor bacteria etc. She is taking that also for 2 days now. She has now stablized to around 10 times urinating in a day - just twice during the night. She seems reasonably OK now - the fatigue is also less now (note - she never had fatigue during the urination times - both times, fatigue started when urination lessened). However, on reading your post, I am still scared. Assuming her condition was caused by something else, what would happen if she didn't visit a doctor for 7 weeks now. I am making her continue the yogurt & grapefruit seed because something is better than nothing & because it has atleast stopped her urination. I appreciate your posts in this thread & if you have any other advice for me, do let me know. >However, on reading your post, I am still scared. Assuming her >condition was [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >for >me, do let me know. I would think that if she's not running fevers, has no bacteria in her urine, does not have painful urination, is not having accidents, has no flank or abdominal pain, and no abnormal vaginal bleeding, then waiting a few weeks may be harmless. One other thing to consider, ONLY after all organic causes have been "ruled out", is that the bladder can be a finicky organ which can malfunction due to stress. The soothing effect of eating yogurt and/or taking a natural remedy may be partly responsible for her relief of symptoms. PF Were I you I would suspect the birth control pill. I would start there and do all I could to avoid a domino effect of one drug after another to treat what the previous one caused. Zee Symp toms wrote: > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > helps a lot. I am going to the doctor after 3-4 days, but does anyone > have any advice before then. One has to err on the side of caution and take measures as if it were a UTI. you have already taken some antibiotics true but as with happens with so many women the course of antibiotics are not enough as the bacteria have had an opportunity to burrow deep into the bladder tissue....and normal ANT course do not provide for deep saturation .. you may want to consider taking something like clear track for longer term control of bacteria...yeas yeast can also be a problem but many of us IC patients KNOW we can't rely on the drs test to determine cause!! this is why there are so many of us ICers because the drs. don't know. Yes bladder spasms can occur to physical defects and one should explore that but more importantly think back to before you got it....did you perhaps wipe inappropriately? sometimes one can trace back to the origins of their dilemma to pinpoint the probably causation of their malady. You could also contact dr. Fuggazzotto for a complete accurate testing of your urine. I often received negative test results from standard labs . claire > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > helps a lot. I am going to the doctor after 3-4 days, but does anyone > have any advice before then. > One has to err on the side of caution and take measures as if it were a UTI. > you have already taken some antibiotics true but as with happens with so [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > claire As one of those rare males who has this disease, I can say with no uncertainty that inappropriate wiping did not cause my IC. IC has no known cause, and most considered it a syndrome, since it has such a wide range of symptoms. That said, I agree about the antibiotics. If they are prescribed, one usually has to take them for much longer than is required for other infections because with IC, since the bladder wall has deteriorated, bacteria can lodge deep in the bladder wall, making treatment difficult. I have had IC for ten years, and have found that watching my diet very carefully in conjunction with using Elmiron and Urimax substantially alleviates many of the symptoms. However, I still have to take at least two tylenol/day to relieve the pain, since these other drugs don't provide all of the pain relief I need. Unfortunately, I have had to stop taking the Elmiron because I am currently not working (due to other health problems as well as the IC), have no health insurance, and Elmiron costs about $280/bottle. So for now I am taking the Urimax (which is somewhat cheaper) and tylenol. |
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