Medical Forum / General / General / February 2005
Shaken Baby syndrome falling apart
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john - 17 Jan 2005 16:57 GMT http://www.whale.to/a/sbs666.html
"Dr Geddes's findings blew apart the assumption that the previously recognised symptoms of SBS must necessarily equal foul play. In short, she destroyed the SBS theory, but only now are the legal and medical establishments catching up."
Carey Gregory - 18 Jan 2005 07:16 GMT >http://www.whale.to/a/sbs666.html > >"Dr Geddes's findings blew apart the assumption that the previously >recognised symptoms of SBS must necessarily equal foul play. In short, she >destroyed the SBS theory, but only now are the legal and medical >establishments catching up." John finally shows his true colors and comes out in defense of pedophiles and child abusers.
It had to happen sooner or later.
john - 18 Jan 2005 09:02 GMT > >http://www.whale.to/a/sbs666.html > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > It had to happen sooner or later. I thought I was in your killfile pharma boy
"Who knows what John really believes. He's a notorious anti-vaccine propogandist who occupies slot #1 in my killfile and has for about 3-4 years now. He and his whale.to site are well known on sci.med where his "theories" have been shot down time and time again. Unfortunately, he is completely devoid of ethics and the truth is of absolutely no importance to him. No matter how many times his propoganda is proved false, he continues to preach it. His entire site is nothing but a collection of faleshoods, distortions, and rubbish. It would best be described as a porn site."--Carey Gregory (Usenet)
"Carey Gregory" <nospam@gw-dash-tech.com> wrote in message > You really are complete scum, John. Do the world a favor -- f.ck off and die.
Try and get yourself an argument one day
You can't face the FACT your sbs baby is dying on its feet and put hundreds of innocent people in jail like Alan Yurko, and much of that "abuse" is down to your vaccines, so who is the real child abuser http://www.whale.to/vaccines/sbs1.html
I guess you can't face that fact, so you have to make out innocent people are pedophiles (how do you work that one out by the way) and ruin families and lives instead, while the child abuse goes on and on
Carey Gregory - 18 Jan 2005 20:43 GMT >I thought I was in your killfile pharma boy You were, pedophile boy, but you slithered out by morphing your email addy again. Don't worry, you'll be back in soon enough.
Meanwhile, how thoughtful of you to repost my opinions of you for everyone to see once again.
>"Who knows what John really believes. He's a notorious anti-vaccine >propogandist who occupies slot #1 in my killfile and has for about 3-4 years [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >are pedophiles (how do you work that one out by the way) and ruin families >and lives instead, while the child abuse goes on and on Blah blah. Read the facts here http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/yurko.htm
Mark Probert - 18 Jan 2005 22:14 GMT > >I thought I was in your killfile pharma boy > > You were, pedophile boy, but you slithered out by morphing your email addy > again. Don't worry, you'll be back in soon enough. Oh? John did that? Shocking! He bleated and brayed when I did that. Another hypocrite.
> Meanwhile, how thoughtful of you to repost my opinions of you for everyone > to see once again. I'll leave it. Bears another repeat.
> >"Who knows what John really believes. He's a notorious anti-vaccine > >propogandist who occupies slot #1 in my killfile and has for about 3-4 years [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Blah blah. Read the facts here > http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/yurko.htm john - 19 Jan 2005 11:13 GMT > >I thought I was in your killfile pharma boy > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Meanwhile, how thoughtful of you to repost my opinions of you for everyone > to see once again. My pleasure, I realise crude abuse is the highest form of argument in Orc Land, so I have collected your highest thinking http://www.whale.to/a/carey_gregory.html so you can show it to your Orc kin.
Carey Gregory - 19 Jan 2005 19:18 GMT >http://www.whale.to/a/carey_gregory.html Actually, I'm really quite proud and flattered to have my very own page on your site. It can only mean I must be doing something right.
Mark Probert - 19 Jan 2005 22:02 GMT > >http://www.whale.to/a/carey_gregory.html > > Actually, I'm really quite proud and flattered to have my very own page on > your site. It can only mean I must be doing something right. Print it and have it bronzed.
Carey Gregory - 20 Jan 2005 00:44 GMT >> Actually, I'm really quite proud and flattered to have my very own page on >> your site. It can only mean I must be doing something right. > >Print it and have it bronzed. Hmmm.... Do you think maybe aluminum or tin would be more appropriate? I don't think John rates bronze.
Mark Probert - 20 Jan 2005 14:08 GMT > >> Actually, I'm really quite proud and flattered to have my very own page on > >> your site. It can only mean I must be doing something right. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Hmmm.... Do you think maybe aluminum or tin would be more appropriate? I > don't think John rates bronze. Amalgamize it. That will piss him off.
john - 20 Jan 2005 07:23 GMT > >http://www.whale.to/a/carey_gregory.html > > Actually, I'm really quite proud and flattered to have my very own page on > your site. It can only mean I must be doing something right. Yes, you are a fine example of very basic ad hominem---every idiot serves a purpose in the greater scheme of things. See if you can aim a bit higher in the next life--the next stage is Wright, Bowshit or Putz where you just repeat medical propaganda, God as the chemical companies. You may even get paid for it like Putz.
David Wright - 23 Jan 2005 16:14 GMT >> >http://www.whale.to/a/carey_gregory.html >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Yes, you are a fine example of very basic ad hominem---every idiot serves a >purpose in the greater scheme of things. So what's your function? You clearly qualify.
>See if you can aim a bit higher in the next life--the next stage is >Wright, Bowshit or Putz where you just repeat medical propaganda, God >as the chemical companies. You may even get paid for it like Putz. The usual baseless accusations that one's opponents are Paid Agents. John doesn't understand scientific papers -- I rather doubt he can count above 10 without removing his shoes) and therefore considers them all "propaganda."
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
Carey Gregory - 24 Jan 2005 06:32 GMT >John doesn't understand scientific papers -- I rather doubt he can >count above 10 without removing his shoes) and therefore considers >them all "propaganda." Yep, it's blatantly obvious John doesn't understand what he's posting, but that's not what sealed his fate with me.
When I first wandered into this group (1996-ish), I lurked and watched a long debate between John and several regulars. John had posted one of his typical random artifacts and was taken to task for it. I don't recall what it was exactly, but it was dangerous advice for anyone to whom it mattered. In the end he was soundly trounced, and eventually he even admitted he was wrong and his opponents were right (first and last time I ever saw that happen).
Then a few months later (after he thought everyone had forgotten), he posted the article again. Yes, it was the very one that had been proven incorrect. The one he *agreed* was incorrect, the one he *knew* to be false, dangerous advice.
Thus were born my views of John, and I've seen nothing since to suggest he has changed. Once a sociopath, always a sociopath.
john - 24 Jan 2005 07:56 GMT "Carey Gregory" <tiredofspam123@comcast.net> wrote in message
> Then a few months later (after he thought everyone had forgotten), he posted > the article again. Yes, it was the very one that had been proven incorrect. > The one he *agreed* was incorrect, the one he *knew* to be false, dangerous > advice. Always alluding to some past triumph that never happened. I guess that is a step up from crude ad hominem
David Wright - 25 Jan 2005 04:54 GMT >"Carey Gregory" <tiredofspam123@comcast.net> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Always alluding to some past triumph that never happened. I guess that is a >step up from crude ad hominem The last line of Scudamorean defense -- the Big Lie. Claim it never happened.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
Carey Gregory - 25 Jan 2005 08:30 GMT >>Always alluding to some past triumph that never happened. I guess that is a >>step up from crude ad hominem > >The last line of Scudamorean defense -- the Big Lie. Claim it never >happened. And note how he refers to past triumph even though I clearly said I was only an observer and claimed no involvement whatsoever. Add yet another little lie to the Big Lie.
Mark Probert - 18 Jan 2005 14:08 GMT > >http://www.whale.to/a/sbs666.html > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > It had to happen sooner or later. It happened much sooner as John-boy was one of Yurko's most strident defenders. Sadly, that piece of wasted protoplasm will be let out of jail for good later this year.
Parents watch your children.
Advocate147 - 08 Feb 2005 16:26 GMT Please pass this on to Dr. Gedde, ATTN; THE TRUTH OF SOME SHAKEN BABY SYNDROME INSTANCES
If this has been said once, it has been said maybe a thousand times. Shaken baby syndrome can be a complete error in judgment. Have seen it happen in Chicago, IL where Donna Gist, a caretaker for a 6mo. old baby, son of two physicians received life for the death of the baby due to shaken baby syndrome. Thomas Breen was the lawyer for Donna Gist and appealed successfully. Donna is now free. Truth is she was innocent of the charge, despite all indications that were contrary. When I read the article in the paper, I went to Mr. Breen telling him what I thought of the conviction. He KNEW Donna was innocent. The headline that caught my eye was "Depression's lingering stigna put mom on trial" They were proud of the fact that the mom of the child did not hide the fact that she was depressed and on an anti-depressant.
That was all that was needed for me to KNOW of the tremendous possiblity that Donna Gist was innocent. Well, if Donna was innocent and the grief stricken parents were innocent, so who or what was at fault. No problem. The anti-depressant was at fault. Any stimulant has the strange and tremendous capacity to transfer harm to a second individual when taken by a first person. This is in my layman's theory on the cause of crohns on web site http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/gailfaq.htm Unbelievable almost, but have seen it and experienced time and again and can say with certainty stimulants present a mind/body connection, literally, to do harm to an innocent vulnerable person. Truly, everyone is innocent, as it is a hidden syndrome which no one realizes what stimulants can do. Crohns is a manmade illness, but so many symptoms fall into this category and go unrecognized as to cause, that our world is becoming strangely dangerous. This simply needs to get to the right source, one who can observe it and relay it without being thought of as unrealistic. It responds to nothing logical, but the damage tells us it is a real phenomenom.
Research being done all over the world but researchers looking for a scientific logical course are in the wrong ballgame. This is a new ballgame, which Dr. Burrill Crohn could not know the rules for which he searched. Time to do a study on pediatric children who have Inflammatory Bowel Disease. The possibility that the mother or some or person close to the child may be on an anti-depressant is more than likely. The two or more persons need not be in the same room for the ill person to suffer, it transcends distance. they can be miles and miles apart. If the mother ceases (or whoever is responsible) the anti-depressant, the child will be well immediately. It is easiest to do the study with pediatric children as their contacts are limited, whereas adults have many contacts and cannot know or deny that anyone they know could be taking a stimulant. This is an error in judgment as most of the drugs are legal drugs and no reason to deny them. As we all know, every problem today is solved with an anti-depressant, (mental anxiety or depression). while Ativan or Valium, true tranquillizers will do no harm to anyone if substituted for the anti-depressants. Problem is they are controlled substances and thought to be addictive. That in itself is an error. they are not as addictive as thought. at any rate, they do no harm, and the baby could have lived. Poor pharmaceuticals, they will lose their best selling pills (except for the truly needy). This post should be spread to all possible sources that have in their ability to do something about it. A study at the very least. Save the shaken baby from death, and save the innocent person from a lifetime of incarceration and grief. Canada Health has finally realized that babies born to mothers who have been on anti-depressants in the last months of pregnancy have babies born with multiple problems and are hospitalized for breathing problems, seizure problems, etc. If the baby continued in life wth the mother on an anti-depressant, the stage can be set for shaken baby syndrome . Also, other meds can cause crohns, such as Xanax, Buspar, Depakote, Flexeril, natural herbs with natural stimulants, kava kava, st johns wort, etc etc etc. if taken by one person and is transferred to a second or third vulnerable person by a mind/body connection. Do not discount this as it is a looming problem of tremendous proportion. I implore any research facility, the CCFA, to act now on confronting this most perplexing of problems.
With all sincerety Gail Michael Advocate147@aol.com
Anyone desiring more infornation can email me.
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