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Medical Forum / General / General / December 2004Canadians, a couple of questions about health care
Say Canada was declared war upon by a hostile nation, and several provinces are victims of intended invasion. The war is fought, millions die, allies win, etc. etc. Would you still demand free healthcare over your own security? Even if you know that the U.S. and the U.N. cannot possibly save you all the time? Even if you know that your military isn't exactly the strongest in the world? Not implying anything, I just wanna know if Canadians feel like healthcare beats national security. An idiotic question that has nothing to do with immigration. Med. Gnome > Say Canada was declared war upon by a hostile nation, and several > provinces [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Not implying anything, I just wanna know if Canadians feel like healthcare > beats national security. > An idiotic question that has nothing to do with immigration. > > Med. Gnome Gactimus is an uneducated and ignorant American troll. He's little more than another brain dead American faggot who the propaganda sh.t fed to him by his fascist leader Bush. Gullible Americans like him are of no value and should be ignored, he's only going to end up being drafted and then blown to bits by a car bomb in Iraq anyway. > Say Canada was declared war upon by a hostile nation, and several provinces > are victims of intended invasion. The war is fought, millions die, allies [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Not implying anything, I just wanna know if Canadians feel like healthcare > beats national security. This is so amusing. Especially coming as it does from someone who's country is screaming for our drugs and our flu vaccines which are kept affordable by our healthcare system subsidized by our taxes. You ethically challenged neo-cons; you savour this image of us ravaged, bloody, napalmed Canucks handing over coin before you'd let us have one of our own bandages don't you? Never gonna happen. The only country we have had to defend ourselves against on our own soil was the United States. We won. >This is so amusing. Especially coming as it does from someone who's >country is screaming for our drugs and our flu vaccines which are kept >affordable by our healthcare system subsidized by our taxes. Actually they are kept affordable because your government puts a gun to the head of the Pharm companies and says this is what we will pay for the medications and if you don't like it we'll take away the patent and make it for ourselves. Take it or leave it. -- Diplomacy- The art of telling someone to go to Hell in such a manner that they actually look forward to the trip. Oh the poor pharmaceutical companies. I think I'll just go out and sh.t myself in sympathy for them. You got shares in Merck that you bought at the top of the market? That's what capitalism is about sucker. It is interesting you come up with the crock of sh.t you do. I get a lot of US TV Stations and one is a FOX affiliate. The day is filled with scumbag lawyers advertising for clients to sue the drug companies for alleged problems with their drugs. You pontificate about govt regulation of drug prices yet you seem perfectly happy to take a share of the profits if you think you have a chance or getting it. What a f.cking hypocrite. You bitch about Canada which has 10% of the market that the US does. Go bitch about India. They have 3 or 4 times the market of the US potentially and they don't bother asking they just make the drugs and sell them for a price they determine without consultation with the drug companies. Tough eh? Do you have any idea how drug prices are calculated and what the cost are in developing drugs? One of the biggest costs of a new drug is convincing a.sholes like you that you have some disease that the drug will cure or control. If you sh.ts were as sick as the TV ads portray you should all be in a hole waiting for the last shovelful of dirt to be dumped in. Come to think of it that is not a bad idea even if you're not sick. Go suck Rumsfeld he looks like he needs a blow job. > >This is so amusing. Especially coming as it does from someone who's > >country is screaming for our drugs and our flu vaccines which are kept [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > Diplomacy- The art of telling someone to go to Hell in such a manner that they actually look forward to the trip. >>This is so amusing. Especially coming as it does from someone who's >>country is screaming for our drugs and our flu vaccines which are kept [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > Diplomacy- The art of telling someone to go to Hell in such a manner that they actually look forward to the trip. Crap, Canada extended patent drug protection far beyond even what the pharma's asked for. >Crap, Canada extended patent drug protection far beyond even what the >pharma's asked for. As long as they market them for the price the government says they should. Although in fairness, I don't think the Canadian government has actually ever used that particular stick. Probably because they haven't set prices so low that the difference couldn't be made up here in the States. -- Diplomacy- The art of telling someone to go to Hell in such a manner that they actually look forward to the trip. Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote in message <3PgAd.11266$RH4.6130@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>: >>Crap, Canada extended patent drug protection far beyond even what the >>pharma's asked for. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >be made up here in the States. > There is no competition in the USA for pharmaceuticals, it's a cartel. You suckers get nailed in the butt and only a turd with no knowledge of business would think that your exorbitant prices subsidize the Canadian or foreign markets where they are cheaper. What is it with you American Republicans, didn't any of you attend school beyond the high school level? Ditch diggers like you are born for your party because you are gullible and will slurp up any sh.t they feed you, no questions asked. Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote in message <3PgAd.11266$RH4.6130@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>: >>Crap, Canada extended patent drug protection far beyond even what the >>pharma's asked for. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >be made up here in the States. > There is no competition in the USA for pharmaceuticals, it's a cartel. You suckers get nailed in the butt and only a turd with no knowledge of business would think that your exorbitant prices subsidize the Canadian or foreign markets where they are cheaper. From what I've read of your other contributions to this thread, it's evident that you don't know much of the Canadian system, you don't know how your own system works either. You should just keep quiet, read and learn. Loud mouthed Americans with pea sized brains make fools of themselves here all the time and you're becoming quite a nuisance. What is it with you American Republicans, didn't any of you attend school beyond the high school level? Ditch diggers like you are born for your party because you are gullible and will slurp up any sh.t they feed you, no questions asked. > Actually they are kept affordable because your government puts a > gun to the head of the Pharm companies and says this is what we > will pay for the medications and if you don't like it we'll take > away the patent and make it for ourselves. Take it or leave it. In the States th pharm companies put the gun to the head of the consumer and say "this what you'll pay, if you can, because the Government let's us" The sky has no limits!  SignatureBarney __________________________ Talk is cheap! Thats why I can afford it. >> Actually they are kept affordable because your government puts a >> gun to the head of the Pharm companies and says this is what we [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >consumer and say "this what you'll pay, if you can, because the >Government let's us" The sky has no limits! Nonsense. The sky has limits, the problem is that almost 80% of American Healthcare costs are NOT paid by the patient. So, when you get a buck worth of something for 20 cents you are gonna demand the whole enchilada and scream if you don't get it. -- Diplomacy- The art of telling someone to go to Hell in such a manner that they actually look forward to the trip. > Nonsense. The sky has limits, the problem is that almost > 80% of American Healthcare costs are NOT paid by the patient. > You have lost me here. Who pays the bills if American patients nor the government pays the shot? Why on earth do they bother getting their prescriptions from Canada? (Is this just some new novelty?) People in the states get free medical attention and don't even have to pay a dime towards their system. Here we pay for a system that keep pharmaceuticals down in price, Americans buy it and they can get all for free in their own country. Medicare is expensive and could be cheaper when the users can just go to the states and get it for nothing. i don't know what system you use there, but if nobody has to pay for it, it has to be a premium. -- Barney __________________________ Talk is cheap! Thats why I can afford it. > Nonsense. The sky has limits, the problem is that almost >80% of American Healthcare costs are NOT paid by the patient. So, >when you get a buck worth of something for 20 cents you are gonna >demand the whole enchilada and scream if you don't get it. > Who pays it if not the patient. Ora >> Nonsense. The sky has limits, the problem is that almost >>80% of American Healthcare costs are NOT paid by the patient. So, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Who pays it if not the patient. In teh US mostly employers and to a lesser extent Mcare and MCaid.. Studies have shown consisently over the last 20 years at least (look at the yearly reports from the office of the Actuary of Medicare..although it looks at the entire HC system.. in Health Affairs magazine). The out-of-pocket expense for healthcare in the US (INCLUDING the o-o-p part of the insurance premiums) is less than 20%. For every dollar spent, only 20 cents comes directly from the person's pocket. Interesting side report. If you look at changes since '60 (when it was just over 50%) you will note that as the %age of o-o-p expense went down, the costs of healthcare as % of GDP went up. -- Diplomacy- The art of telling someone to go to Hell in such a manner that they actually look forward to the trip. >>Who pays it if not the patient. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >it was just over 50%) you will note that as the %age of o-o-p >expense went down, the costs of healthcare as % of GDP went up. Get realistic. Employers only pay insurance premiums for their employees. And sometimes they do not. So obviously they are not paying, they are including it as part of the compensation package. If you think employers are paying for medical care, I presume you think employers are paying for food, housing, and all other items that their employees purchase. Medicare does not pay for health care. They use money which was deducted from salaries. And for retirees, they pay premiums from their retirement benefits. When they run out of money do you think they are going to pay anything? Medicaid uses tax money which comes from the ordinary citizens. Ora where does the other 80% come from assuming say 20% does come from the consumer. Are the insurance companies in the business to lose money? > >> Nonsense. The sky has limits, the problem is that almost > >>80% of American Healthcare costs are NOT paid by the patient. So, [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Diplomacy- The art of telling someone to go to Hell in such a manner that they > actually look forward to the trip. >where does the other 80% come from assuming say 20% does come from the >consumer. Are the insurance companies in the business to lose money? Employers and the Government (MCare and MCaid). (This, is the 3rd time I have made this statement, please pay attention.). -- Diplomacy- The art of telling someone to go to Hell in such a manner that they actually look forward to the trip. >>where does the other 80% come from assuming say 20% does come from the >>consumer. Are the insurance companies in the business to lose money? > > Employers and the Government (MCare and MCaid). (This, is the >3rd time I have made this statement, please pay attention.). > It is easy to make a statement but if the statement is unsubstantiated who is supposed to believe it. Here is something believable. http://www.medpac.gov/publications/congressional_reports/Jun04DataBookSec6.pdf It mentions out of pocket at 16%. Since health insurance is listed separately it is obvious that out-of-pocket refers to costs at the time of service. That is why we have insurance. Ora ANd here I was all set to apply for my green card on account of the cheap health care in the US. Damn. I was going to move to a nice neighbourhood in south Dallas and start a taco stand business. > >>where does the other 80% come from assuming say 20% does come from the > >>consumer. Are the insurance companies in the business to lose money? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Here is something believable. http://www.medpac.gov/publications/congressional_reports/Jun04DataBookSec6.pdf > It mentions out of pocket at 16%. Since health insurance is listed separately > it is obvious that out-of-pocket refers to costs at the time of service. That > is why we have insurance. > > Ora > > Actually they are kept affordable because your government puts a > > gun to the head of the Pharm companies and says this is what we [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > consumer and say "this what you'll pay, if you can, because the > Government let's us" The sky has no limits! He doesn't understand that government is... Of the people! By the people! For the People! Must be a foreign concept in the USSA!! > ... > Actually they are kept affordable because your government puts a > gun to the head of the Pharm companies and says this is what we will > pay for the medications and if you don't like it we'll take away the > patent and make it for ourselves. Take it or leave it. and how do you arrive at that stupid conclusion? with nafta, law suites would be flying all over the place in such a situation, and i haven' heard of any. more likely we benefit from the single payer system: the insurance system told the pharmas how much they are willing to spend, and the pharmas figured out that they are still making a profit, albeit not as much as in the states. note that nobody forces them to sell here. hs Sorry to dispel your understand HS. The insurance companies have very little if anything to do with pricing. I'm unfortunately a bit of an expert on pharmaceuticals and pricing not through choice. No they are not of the recreational nature either. Drug pricing is sometimes but not always based on equivalencies. That is if costs x to provide a certain level of control or care then a drug that can provide the same thing over an similar period of time is priced accordingly. Most very expensive drugs cost the same in Canadian dollars in Canada as they do in American dollars in the US. Some countries such as India have for certain drugs such as those for AIDS have simply told the drug companies they would pay a royalty of some "x" and that was it take it or leave it but in either case they would manufacture the drug for domestic consumption. I'm not sure about your "force" statement. What about NAFTA? > > ... > > Actually they are kept affordable because your government puts a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > hs > Sorry to dispel your understand HS. The insurance companies have very little > if anything to do with pricing. i wasn't talking about insurance *companies*, but the (government run) insurance *system* > ... > I'm not sure about your "force" statement. What about NAFTA? i doubt that nafta forces private companies to offer gods and services in all member countries. it probably would open a few cans of worms). my reference to nafta was in regards to that kurt moron's claim that the pharma companies were forced to sell at a certain price under threat of patent expropriation. that would have triggered a few law suites hs I did a bit of checking and the fed regulate prices by means of the Patent Medicine Price Review Board which grants extended patents in turn for lower prices or so it appears. The provinces appear to exercise some control on price by having what is in Ontario called the Formulary which lists drugs and what they will pay for under their drug care programs. Obviously the prices are not set unilaterally. In Ontario there are a number of different drug care programs for various needs such as welfare , low income and seniors. It even subsidized those who are relatively well off when their prescription drug costs reach certain levels. All seniors in Ontario are covered under the formulary. This is good and bad I don't know about NAFTA. I don't know about patent expropriation what would that be. If a country decides to manufacture a drug it doesn't need the patent if it doesn't want to pay anything. How ya gonna sue if the courts won't hear the case? I understand India just told one or more drug companies that they would pay x in the way of royalties to produce patented HIV drugs and that was that. X is more than nothing but the selling price of the drug in India was certainly not the same as in the USA. > > Sorry to dispel your understand HS. The insurance companies have very little > > if anything to do with pricing. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > hs > ... > I don't know about NAFTA. I don't know about patent expropriation what would > that be. check out idiot ullman's first contribution to this threat: he claimed that the patents would be given to low cost manufacturers if the government wasn't satisfied with the prices > If a country decides to manufacture a drug it doesn't need the > patent if it doesn't want to pay anything. How ya gonna sue if the courts > won't hear the case? as far as i remember, nafta contained some clauses on IP property rights that would make that impossible > ... hs >> ... >> Actually they are kept affordable because your government puts a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >and the pharmas figured out that they are still making a profit, albeit >not as much as in the states. note that nobody forces them to sell here. I read the Canadian governments own webistes and laws on the subjects. Under Canadian law the government not only sets the price, but they often take their time doing so. If the Pharm company guesses wrong and sets the wrong price, the Phram company has to (and has on a few occassions) rebated their ill-gotten gains to the government. -- Diplomacy- The art of telling someone to go to Hell in such a manner that they actually look forward to the trip. > ... >>> Actually they are kept affordable because your government puts a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and sets the wrong price, the Phram company has to (and has on a few > occassions) rebated their ill-gotten gains to the government. well, if you compare the two statements above and have some reading comprehension (based on PISA results not very likely), you will notice that those are quite different. do you always have the habit of making things up to embellish your paranoid prejudices? hs In soc.culture.usa Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote: > Say Canada was declared war upon by a hostile nation, Your premise is completely dissociated from reality. > and several provinces > are victims of intended invasion. The war is fought, millions die, allies > win, etc. etc. > Would you still demand free healthcare over your own security? Even if you > know that the U.S. and the U.N. cannot possibly save you all the time? We've never looked to the US or UK for assistance, although we have assisted them in many wars. > Even > if you know that your military isn't exactly the strongest in the world? Our military is highly oriented towards peacekeeping and disaster response, not turning minority kids into corporate cannon fodder. Signature............................................................................. "I'm the commander, I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being the President. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation" -George W Bush in Washington Post Interview, November 20 2002 ............................................................................. dswan@m3m3t1ccand1ru.com http://www.memeticcandiru.com > In soc.culture.usa Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote: > > Say Canada was declared war upon by a hostile nation, > > Your premise is completely dissociated from reality. Gactimus is an uneducated and ignorant American troll. He's little more than another brain dead American faggot who parrots the propaganda sh.t fed to him by his fascist leader Bush, who he obeys with out question for he has no will or courage. Gullible Americans like him are of no value and should be ignored, he's only going to end up being drafted and then blown to bits by a car bomb in Iraq anyway. There is no such thing as free healthcare .. its all paid for with taxes .. That is the will of the people for it to be that way .... meanwhile back in the USA some people even have to sell their houses to pay for major operations etc... The US is just about the only western nation without a proper healthcare system...... > In soc.culture.usa Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote: >> Say Canada was declared war upon by a hostile nation, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > response, > not turning minority kids into corporate cannon fodder. > There is no such thing as free healthcare .. its all paid for with taxes > .. That is the will of the people for it to be that way .... meanwhile > back in the USA some people even have to sell their houses to pay for > major operations etc... The US is just about the only western nation > without a proper healthcare system...... ============================ I don't advocate a US-style health care system for Canada but here's something to think about. We don't have shortages of running shoes, TVs, food, cars, t-shirts or anything else in our economy -- except health care. The private sector delivers all except health care, which is delivered by government. In heath care we are short doctors, nurses, hospital beds, diagnostic equipment and, as a result of all this, timely treatment. Even though services are rationed in Canada, the cost is still about $4,500 a year for a typical Canadian family, paid through taxes whether they use the health care system or not. Seems to me if we followed the example of European countries and blended private and public health care delivery, we would have a better system. Only Cuba and North Korea have totally public health care systems like Canada's. Great company we're in. There is an old Cold War joke apropos of this topic. If the Soviet Union took over North Africa, what would happen? Nothing right away but in about 25 years there would be a shortage of sand. John Dowell SignatureA government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have. >I don't advocate a US-style health care system for Canada but here's >something to think about. We don't have shortages of running shoes, TVs, >food, cars, t-shirts or anything else in our economy -- except health care. Actually not much of that. 80% of Americans are still insured (more if you include those who qualify for Mcaid but haven't signed up or have expired)> The number is even lower if you count only those w/o insurance for more than 6 months (most of the 20% are without insurance AT ANY TIME during the year, assuming you are using the study cited most often). -- Diplomacy- The art of telling someone to go to Hell in such a manner that they actually look forward to the trip. > Not implying anything, I just wanna know if Canadians feel like > healthcare beats national security. Healthcare is an immediate need. National security only if we become envolved with American disputes. SignatureBarney __________________________ Talk is cheap! Thats why I can afford it. Let us ALL start with the basic idea that you are a troll and don't exist in reality. Nobody here has read anything you have allegedly put in writing because of the basic idea that... > Say Canada was declared war upon by a hostile nation, and several provinces > are victims of intended invasion. The war is fought, millions die, allies [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Not implying anything, I just wanna know if Canadians feel like healthcare > beats national security. actually you are implying you are stupid and understand absolutely nothing SignatureMarko Jotic "Common sense is anything but common". From the notebooks of Lazarus Long. Robert A. Heinlein. Handmade knives, antique designs, exotic materials at http://www.knifeforging.com/ Generally peaceful mature nations don't go around declaring war... they respond to an attack by another country So the question is invalid >> Say Canada was declared war upon by a hostile nation, and several >> provinces are victims of intended invasion. The war is fought, millions [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > actually you are implying you are stupid and understand absolutely nothing > Generally peaceful mature nations don't go around declaring war... they > respond to an attack by another country Sounds cowardly. So you wouldn't go out of your way to prevent an attack by another nation? You would wait until another nation inflicted thousands of casualties of your nation before you did anything about it? >>Generally peaceful mature nations don't go around declaring war... they >>respond to an attack by another country > > Sounds cowardly. So you wouldn't go out of your way to prevent an attack > by another nation? You would wait until another nation inflicted thousands > of casualties of your nation before you did anything about it? who are you talking about? we went in with you when you went after the terrorists responsible, and not in Iraq where you didn't know what you were doing. note please that I believe the US, GB and UN should have gone in after saddam first broke the truce, not the 17th time as for your original rhetoric: paying for health care out of our higher taxes has nothing to do with security. SignatureMarko Jotic "Common sense is anything but common". From the notebooks of Lazarus Long. Robert A. Heinlein. Handmade knives, antique designs, exotic materials at http://www.knifeforging.com/ Typical third world thinking from amerika so let me see.. the British should have invaded amerika because people like the new york fire dept and police were funding IRA terror through its own staff pockets... let alone the Irish American terrorists who the US government still won't allow to be extradited to the UK. So when are you going to invade North Korea then lol >>>Generally peaceful mature nations don't go around declaring war... they >>>respond to an attack by another country [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > as for your original rhetoric: paying for health care out of our higher > taxes has nothing to do with security. > Sounds cowardly. So you wouldn't go out of your way to prevent an attack > by another nation? You would wait until another nation inflicted thousands > of casualties of your nation before you did anything about it? Cowardly? We are not being threatened. The US was being threatened. The threat came from al Queada. The current administration disregarded its highest level advisors about the threat from al Queada and was more interested in fabricating a link to Iraq. That was just plain stupid. There is no link between our health care system and self defense. The only people who have invaded as are Americans. >> Sounds cowardly. So you wouldn't go out of your way to prevent an >> attack by another nation? You would wait until another nation inflicted >> thousands of casualties of your nation before you did anything about >> it? > > Cowardly? We are not being threatened. I bet that's what the Australians thought before the Bali nightclub bombing. > >> Sounds cowardly. So you wouldn't go out of your way to prevent an > >> attack by another nation? You would wait until another nation inflicted [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I bet that's what the Australians thought before the Bali nightclub bombing. And what part of Australia is BALI?? >>>> Sounds cowardly. So you wouldn't go out of your way to prevent an >>>> attack by another nation? You would wait until another nation [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > And what part of Australia is BALI?? The nightclub was a popular place for Australians. The Bali bombing is sometimes called "Australia's September 11th". Bugger talk of so called free heath care .. talk about free buses lol Free bus travel for all pensioners from 2006 OLDER and disabled passengers will receive free bus travel, with no time restrictions, across Scotland from 2006, the Scottish Executive announced yesterday. The announcement, greeted with cross-party applause from MSPs, goes further than ministers' previous pledge to extend existing local schemes nationally by removing the current ban on free morning peak-hour travel. It will also be extended to ferries, with qualifying islanders receiving a minimum of two free return journeys to the mainland a year. The creation of a national plan for the over-60s will end anomalies between local schemes, such as differences in the length of free journeys. It will also end difficulties for those travelling across council boundaries. Nicol Stephen, the transport minister, said the national scheme would use smartcards to minimise fraud. Special equipment, which would cost millions of pounds to install, would be installed on buses to register electronically the cards as passengers boarded. He added that the "complex, bureaucratic and very time-consuming" mechanism for reimbursing bus operators for the current schemes would be replaced with a single payment rate. Lothian Buses, the main operator in Edinburgh, has already complained that fares are 12 per cent higher than they should be because it is not being fully compensated. The minister said the cost of the new scheme would be capped at ?159 million in 2006-07, and ?163 million the following year, and that the scheme, to be administered by the planned national transport agency, would properly compensate operators for extra services. The repayment rate, 73.6 per cent of the average adult single fare, was the same as in Wales, which, said Mr Nichol, was widely accepted as being fair on both operators and taxpayers. A separate scheme for young people is to be announced in the spring, with the concessionary schemes costing a total of ?213 million. At present, Scotland has 16 local schemes, each with different rules on who qualifies, the nature of the concession, and what form of transport it applies to. Mr Stephen told MSPs: "Our progress on free bus travel is one of the major successes of devolution to date. This new scheme will open up exciting new opportunities and dramatically improve the quality of life for those involved." However, he said he did not intend the scheme to switch rail passengers to buses and would be discussing the proposals with First ScotRail. He said he would also consider whether there was a case for carers or partners of those eligible for free travel to be included in the scheme. The likely number of extra journeys has yet to be estimated, but local schemes have generated a 40 per cent increase in bus use by more than one million older and disabled people in the last two years. The news was welcomed by Scottish Citylink, operator of the country's largest long-distance bus network, which said the main winners would be existing passengers being able to travel more frequently. Neil Wood, its managing director, said details of the reimbursement mechanism had still to be finalised, but he was confident there would be adequate compensation to operators. He added that a smartcard pilot scheme was being run by Dundee City Council which could be developed into a "citizen's card" allowing access to local authority services. Fergus Ewing, the SNP's transport spokesman, said he warmly welcomed the plans, especially extending free travel to peak hours and ferries. But Brian Monteith, a Conservative MSP, described it as a "huge subsidy" for private bus companies. John Swinburne, of the Scottish Senior Citizens' Unity Party, called on ministers to ensure that less profitable routes, such as to hospitals, were reinstated. He said: "Concessionary travel can only be called that if it meets senior citizens' needs." Jim Wallace, the Deputy First Minister, said: "I am delighted we have been able to extend the benefits of our concessionary travel scheme by ensuring all older and disabled islanders receive two free return ferry journeys each year. "This extension to the concessionary travel scheme will help older and disabled islanders to access the national bus travel scheme and connect people and communities up and down the country." > Say Canada was declared war upon by a hostile nation, and several > provinces are victims of intended invasion. The war is fought, millions [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Not implying anything, I just wanna know if Canadians feel like > healthcare beats national security. What a freakin' troll !! FOAD !!!
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