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Medical Forum / General / General / December 2004ok--- what NSAID now??
Latest news is finding problems with naprosyn and aleve. What can one take for arthritic problems??? It looks like one can try generic ibuprufen, but it seems that is a primary component of the aforementioned drugs. Any thoughts? MB How about aspirin or Acetaminophen. Or how about alternating meds. Ora >Latest news is finding problems with naprosyn and aleve. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >MB > Latest news is finding problems with naprosyn and aleve. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > MB No, ibuprofen is not a component of the other mentioned meds. However, it has its own problems. Like aspirin, it can cause intestinal bleeding, a serious effect. Probably not good to take high doses of ibuprofen regularly long term. Yes, it really is a problem. There seem to be serious detrimental side effects to all of the NSAIDs. Is an alternative safer NSAID being worked on? Tylenol doesn't do anything for me, and besides, it is not anti-inflammatory. > > Latest news is finding problems with naprosyn and aleve. > > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Tylenol doesn't do anything for me, and besides, it is not > anti-inflammatory. See: http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q26E3661A Servant to the humblest person in the universe, Andrew -- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/ ** Who is the humblest person in the universe? http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 What is all this about? http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A Is this spam? http://makeashorterlink.com/?D13B21FF9 It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article <1103753967.073996.236550@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>: >> > Latest news is finding problems with naprosyn and aleve. >> > What can one take for arthritic problems??? >> > It looks like one can try generic ibuprufen, but it seems that is a >> > primary component of the aforementioned drugs. >> > Any thoughts? >> No, ibuprofen is not a component of the other mentioned meds. >> However, it has its own problems. Like aspirin, it can cause >intestinal >> bleeding, a serious effect. Probably not good to take high doses of >> ibuprofen regularly long term. >> Yes, it really is a problem. There seem to be serious detrimental >side effects to all of the NSAIDs. >> Is an alternative safer NSAID being worked on? >> Tylenol doesn't do anything for me, and besides, it is not >> anti-inflammatory. >See: >http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q26E3661A Here is the referenced message, which was crossposted to sci.med.cardiology, sci.med.pharmacy, and misc.health.arthritis; note that the OP ("MB") was asking about arthritis medications: [Begin] >JOE wrote: >> December 21, 2004 >> Aleve Latest Drug to Draw Scrutiny >> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS >One new option is Limbrel. >http://www.mcramerican.com/limbrel.htm >Would suggest you ask your doctor about it. >Hope the above information helps you. [End] To which I responded in misc.health.arthritis: [Begin] It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article <1103647182.556648.176890@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>: >JOE wrote: >> December 21, 2004 >> Aleve Latest Drug to Draw Scrutiny >> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS >One new option is Limbrel. >http://www.mcramerican.com/limbrel.htm [Begin] LIMBRELTM flavocoxid (U.S. patents pending) capsules by oral administration An ethical medical food product to be used under physician supervision for the clinical dietary management of osteoarthritis (OA), including associated inflammation. [End] http://intetlab.com/product_description.php?product=limbrel [Begin] (4) Nurse practitioners with prescriptive authority are authorized to prescribe: (a) All over the counter drugs; (b) Appliances and devices. (5) Nurse practitioners are authorized to prescribe the following drugs as listed in Drug Facts and Comparisons dated October 2004: (a) Nutrients and Nutritional Agents - all drugs except Flavocoxid (Limbrel); [End] www.oregon.gov/OSBN/pdfs/npa/Div50.pdf IOW, this is not an FDA approved medication. Dr. Chung is a cardiologist and apparently does not have current information about arthritis treatment. >Would suggest you ask your doctor about it. [End] The following has been somewhat expanded from what I wrote in misc.health.arthritis. Would suggest Dr. Chung shouldn't be making suggestions in areas of medicine in which he has given no evidence of experience or training. There are over 150 variations of the rheumatoid arthritises, and NSAIDs are not the recommended treatment for most of them. Nutritionals like Limbrel are not typical first-line recommendations. Prescription-strength NSAIDs do seem to have value for osteoarthritis, the wear-and-tear type, but Limbrel appears to be an OTC nutritional.  SignatureDon donkirk@covad.net > It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote > in article <1103753967.073996.236550@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>: [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > sci.med.cardiology, sci.med.pharmacy, and misc.health.arthritis; note > that the OP ("MB") was asking about arthritis medications: Actually, the OP asked about another anti-inflammatory to replace naprosyn (an NSAID) that is being taken for arthritis (most likely osteoarthritis which is the most common arthritis in the US). > [Begin] > >JOE wrote: [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > Would suggest Dr. Chung shouldn't be making suggestions in areas of > medicine in which he has given no evidence of experience or training. Along with being board-certified in cardiology, I also hold board-certification in internal medicine which is an area of medicine that covers the diagnosis and treatment of arthritis. > There are over 150 variations of the rheumatoid arthritises, and NSAIDs > are not the recommended treatment for most of them. Rheumatoid arthritis is not being discussed here since the OP was taking naprosyn (an NSAID) for what was probably osteoarthritis. > Nutritionals like > Limbrel are not typical first-line recommendations. It remains a prescription-only alternative to NSAIDs for osteoarthritis. > Prescription-strength NSAIDs do seem to have value for osteoarthritis, > the wear-and-tear type, but Limbrel appears to be an OTC nutritional. Limbrel is prescription-only and comprised of active ingredients that the FDA has characterized as GRAS. May God bless those who read the following: http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A May what I have written enlighten you and others. Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A). Servant to the humblest person in the universe, Andrew -- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/ ** Who is the humblest person in the universe? http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 What is all this about? http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A Is this spam? http://makeashorterlink.com/?D13B21FF9 It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article <1103860516.b32a681e214875de5f4f70aba08172f5@teranews>: >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote >> in article <1103753967.073996.236550@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>: >> >> > Latest news is finding problems with naprosyn and aleve. >> >> > What can one take for arthritic problems??? [...] >> >> Is an alternative safer NSAID being worked on? NSAID - Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammation Drug >> >See: >> >http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q26E3661A >> Here is the referenced message, which was crossposted to >> sci.med.cardiology, sci.med.pharmacy, and misc.health.arthritis; note >> that the OP ("MB") was asking about arthritis medications: >Actually, the OP asked about another anti-inflammatory to replace >naprosyn (an NSAID) that is being taken for arthritis (most likely >osteoarthritis which is the most common arthritis in the US). First, the ratio of sufferers from the various varieties of arthritis is hardly the way to diagnose (jump to conclusions about) the kind of arthritis the OP has. No patient is a statistic. Second, osteoarthritis (of which there are only a handful of varieties) may be the most common type of arthritis (about 21 million sufferers), but there are more sufferers from the 150+* varieties of rheumatoid arthritises. * Some sources give the figure as at least 170 varieties; some can be life-threatening. >> [Begin] >> >JOE wrote: >> >> December 21, 2004 >> >> Aleve Latest Drug to Draw Scrutiny >> >> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS >> >One new option is Limbrel. >> >http://www.mcramerican.com/limbrel.htm >> >Would suggest you ask your doctor about it. >> >Hope the above information helps you. >> [End] >> To which I responded in misc.health.arthritis: >> [Begin] >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote >> in article <1103647182.556648.176890@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>: >> >JOE wrote: >> >> December 21, 2004 >> >> Aleve Latest Drug to Draw Scrutiny >> >> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS >> >One new option is Limbrel. >> >http://www.mcramerican.com/limbrel.htm >> [Begin] >> LIMBRELTM >> flavocoxid (U.S. patents pending) capsules by oral administration >> An ethical medical food product to be used under physician supervision >> for the clinical dietary management of osteoarthritis (OA), including >> associated inflammation. >> [End] >> http://intetlab.com/product_description.php?product=limbrel >> [Begin] >> (4) Nurse practitioners with prescriptive authority are authorized to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> [End] >> www.oregon.gov/OSBN/pdfs/npa/Div50.pdf >> IOW, this is not an FDA approved medication. Dr. Chung is a >> cardiologist and apparently does not have current information about >> arthritis treatment. >> The following has been somewhat expanded from what I wrote in >> misc.health.arthritis. >> Would suggest Dr. Chung shouldn't be making suggestions in areas of >> medicine in which he has given no evidence of experience or training. >Along with being board-certified in cardiology, I also hold >board-certification in internal medicine which is an area of medicine >that covers the diagnosis and treatment of arthritis. Not at all. Board certified Rheumatologists are the experts in that specialty. Many patients have Internal Medicine doctors as Primary Care Providers, who regularly refer patients to rheumatologists when symptoms suggest arthritis; my wife sees a Board certified Internal Medicine doctor for her routine care, not including her arthritis. >> There are over 150 variations of the rheumatoid arthritises, and NSAIDs >> are not the recommended treatment for most of them. >Rheumatoid arthritis is not being discussed here since the OP was taking >naprosyn (an NSAID) for what was probably osteoarthritis. A rheumatologist would not likely jump to that conclusion because the NSAIDs are used for relief of pain and inflammation in many varieties of arthritis, though they are not the preferable treatment for the rheumatoid arthritises. I gave my main reasons earlier for not making that assumption. >> Nutritionals like >> Limbrel are not typical first-line recommendations. >It remains a prescription-only alternative to NSAIDs for osteoarthritis. >> Prescription-strength NSAIDs do seem to have value for osteoarthritis, >> the wear-and-tear type, but Limbrel appears to be an OTC nutritional. >Limbrel is prescription-only and comprised of active ingredients that >the FDA has characterized as GRAS. I was wrong; it is a prescription medication--a food preparation. And true, it is Generally Recognized as Safe, but no evidence of proven effectiveness. Arthritis sufferers want reduction of inflammation, pain relief, and, if possible, reduction of bone erosion. Can Limbrel provide any of those benefits? Limbrel's home page does not mention pain relief or anti-inflammatory effects, but deals only with patient nutrition. http://www.limbrel.com/limbrel.php www.niams.nih.gov/hi/topics/ arthritis/ArthRheumdisRP.pdf is an excellent page for information about the diagnosis, effects, and treatment of the full range of arthritic diseases (which include lupus, gout, and fibromyalgia). The treatment information is quite current, but obviously doesn't include the recent concerns about Celebrex and others. SignatureDon donkirk@covad.net > To which I responded in misc.health.arthritis: Would suggest "Dr." Don shouldn't be making suggestions in areas of medicine in which he has given no evidence of experience or training. It seems to me I heard somewhere that MU wrote in article <xzf430vq2mq5$.uryrt07ve8si$.dlg@40tude.net>: >> To which I responded in misc.health.arthritis: >Would suggest "Dr." Don shouldn't be making suggestions in areas of >medicine in which he has given no evidence of experience or training. Once more would suggest you buy a dictionary and grammar; what I was suggesting was that a legitimate doctor should refrain from Internet diagnoses, from recommending a nutritional product as a replacement for an NSAID for inflammation and pain, and (according to his words) from diagnosing and treating arthritis, a specialty in which he is not certified and a specialty in which Dr. Hayes Wilson is Chief of Hematology at Piedmont Hospital in Atlanta and a Board member of the Arthritis Foundation. A quick Google on "Hayes Wilson" and "Atlanta" will demonstrate some of the differences in the approaches of Dr. Wilson and Dr. Chung. Dr. Wilson has been sought out for his reactions to the Vioxx withdrawal and for his views on the ongoing studies of Celebrex and other Cox-2 NSAIDS. SignatureDon donkirk@covad.net It seems to me I heard somewhere that Don Kirkman wrote in article <1ters0higa0ve79clfsi543nca2kpe399k@4ax.com>: Correction: >It seems to me I heard somewhere that MU wrote in article ><xzf430vq2mq5$.uryrt07ve8si$.dlg@40tude.net>: >>> To which I responded in misc.health.arthritis: >>Would suggest "Dr." Don shouldn't be making suggestions in areas of >>medicine in which he has given no evidence of experience or training. >Once more would suggest you buy a dictionary and grammar; what I was >suggesting was that a legitimate doctor should refrain from Internet [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Hematology at Piedmont Hospital in Atlanta and a Board member of the >Arthritis Foundation. Geez, I can't even spell Haematology, so why did that show up in the preceding sentence? Dr. Wilson is Chief of Rheumatology at Piedmont Hospital in Atlanta and a Board member of the Arthritis Foundation. >A quick Google on "Hayes Wilson" and "Atlanta" will demonstrate some of >the differences in the approaches of Dr. Wilson and Dr. Chung. Dr. >Wilson has been sought out for his reactions to the Vioxx withdrawal and >for his views on the ongoing studies of Celebrex and other Cox-2 NSAIDS. SignatureDon donkirk@covad.net > > Latest news is finding problems with naprosyn and aleve. > > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Tylenol doesn't do anything for me, and besides, it is not > anti-inflammatory. For starters cutting back on the arachidonic acid and increasing your omega 3 fatty acid intake. Turmeric and rosemary might be interesting. Some male see considerable benefits from taking testosterone replacement therapy in the area of pain. Vitamin D also helps some. Really taking Vioxx off the market is criminal. Sure, it causes heart attacks but this is a risk benefits analysis question for the patients. If you have no quality of life due to inflammation and pain and a drug that might kill you after a couple of years in one case in 5000 but helps one function at a near normal level might still be a valid choice. No one is asking the patients. The drug company has cut and run. And the FDA is in cover it a.s mode even though its function is that of back end orifice; therefore, the FDA will just say NO to new med approvals for awhile:-) How diligently and continually are people willing to employ postural and behavioural modification for arthritis, muscle aches and pains and not depend on drugs? According to a pharmacist I interviewed the other day; not at all. Zee > > > Latest news is finding problems with naprosyn and aleve. > > > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > function is that of back end orifice; therefore, the FDA will > just say NO to new med approvals for awhile:-) |
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