Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / General / General / August 2004

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Canadian Nurses coming to the US

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Robert - 16 Aug 2004 04:54 GMT
10% of all graduating Canadian nurses are voting with their feet.
It is always the last resort and only resort.

APRIL 2004  Sources:50 Plus Magazine and Canadian Press

It's been a year now since the outbreak of Severe Acute Respiratory
Syndrome. SARS is a serious infectious disease of the respiratory system. It
is a severe form of pneumonia, and it continues to be a problem worldwide.In
a judicial commission conducted November17, 2003, nursing representatives
complained that confusion, chaos and communication breakdowns prevailed in
Toronto hospitals during the SARS crisis last spring.........

In 1990, 10,000 RN's graduated from Canadian nursing schools. In 1991, the
provinces began cutting back on the number of nursing school spaces in an
effort to save health-care dollars.In 2002, because of the limits placed on
enrolment, only about 5,000 went on to become Registered Nurses. On top of
this, hospitals instituted a hiring freeze. Full- time positions became
scarce, and more and more nurses were asked to accept part-time or casual
work,which allowed hospitals to save on salaries and benefits.Under these
conditions, it's not surprising that a lot of nurses (as much as 10% of each
graduat -ing year) decided to pack up their scrubs and move to the United
States, lured by economic incentives, full-time positions and
educationalopportunities offered by wealth y American health-care
institutions.With educational cutbacks, hiring freezes and flights south all
happening s imultaneously, shortage became much more serious. The nurses who
have remained have worked double shifts and massive overtime hours to make
up the slack. When you also consider that their labour force is aging: in
15years, half of all nurses will be at retirement age, or that many will be
at a stage in their lives where they're unwilling or unable to work
overtime, you begin to understand that the underpinnings of our health-care
system are crumbling...................
George Conklin - 16 Aug 2004 13:02 GMT
> 10% of all graduating Canadian nurses are voting with their feet.
> It is always the last resort and only resort.

 Well, we do need nurses and they closed most of the hospital-based schools
in the USA over the past 20 years.  It is another artifically-induced
shortage.  By the way, Reagan noted in 1980 that the USA did have enough
nurses, but only that they chose not to work in nursing.  Why?  Bad working
conditions in the hospitals which are organized now on a functional basis,
but on a power basis.  Years ago my wife had to work 14 days in a row,
nights, no days off due to nursing shortage.   It is no better now.
Robert - 16 Aug 2004 19:08 GMT
> > 10% of all graduating Canadian nurses are voting with their feet.
> > It is always the last resort and only resort.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> but on a power basis.  Years ago my wife had to work 14 days in a row,
> nights, no days off due to nursing shortage.   It is no better now.

Correct in all your comments and one of the things they did is improve the
pay. Where in the Doctors recommendations on how to keep doctors mention
pay. The Canadian government sets the doctor pay to what a nurse makes in
the US.
Canadian nurses come not only for pay here but for working conditions. It is
a striking statement to vote with your feet when Canada has a higher
standard of living than the US. We are not talking about third world country
nurses where the disparity is so great in pay.
nobody special - 22 Aug 2004 22:33 GMT
(snipped)
> It  is
> a striking statement to vote with your feet when Canada has a higher
> standard of living than the US.

Not true, though you do seem to be the darlings of the UN judgements.
nobody special - 22 Aug 2004 22:35 GMT
> (snipped)
> > It  is
> > a striking statement to vote with your feet when Canada has a higher
> > standard of living than the US.
>
> Not true, though you do seem to be the darlings of the UN judgements.

please change "you" to "they", thanks
George Conklin - 22 Aug 2004 23:20 GMT
> (snipped)
> > It  is
> > a striking statement to vote with your feet when Canada has a higher
> > standard of living than the US.
>
> Not true, though you do seem to be the darlings of the UN judgements.

 Canada produces surplus nurses.  In the USA, we don't want to spend the
money to train them, so we import them after letting Canada pay for their
education.
George Conklin - 30 Aug 2004 19:55 GMT
> > > 10% of all graduating Canadian nurses are voting with their feet.
> > > It is always the last resort and only resort.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> standard of living than the US. We are not talking about third world country
> nurses where the disparity is so great in pay.

  Canada produces a surplus number of nurses, just like PA produces a
surplus number of teachers.  NC needs teachers.  NC imports teachers from
PA.  Likewise, USA imports nurses and doctors.   We do not produce enough
nurses and no one cares.  Also, working conditions are BAD in USA hospitals
and that is why we need to import so many:  bad working hours and
conditions.
tcomeau - 16 Aug 2004 15:30 GMT
> 10% of all graduating Canadian nurses are voting with their feet.
> It is always the last resort and only resort.
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> overtime, you begin to understand that the underpinnings of our health-care
> system are crumbling...................

One, it's not as bad as you make it out to be, and

two, this has been going on for about five years now to some degree or
other, and

three, if all that a nurse or doctor, for that matter, is interested
in is money, then by all means leave, go away, and

four, the canadian health care system is still standing and providing
pretty darned good services to *ALL* Canadians, regardless of income,
or financial or social standing.

Weeeeee staaaaaand oonnnn guaaaaaarddddddd, foooooorrrrrrrrr
theeeeeeeeee!!!! Yeeeee haaaaaa!

TC
Robert - 16 Aug 2004 19:20 GMT
> > 10% of all graduating Canadian nurses are voting with their feet.
> > It is always the last resort and only resort.
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>
> TC
TC, how can you fix a problem you Canadians refuse to admit?
What a person gets paid is set by the government and not free market. Your
government is creating the problem with your health care system. How would
you like it if their were a government take over of computer companies? If
they were to pay you third world wages and then if you go to the US have
other Canadians tell you, "good if all you want is money then go".
We have religious hospitals that were once staffed with sisters of religious
orders who would not get paid anything. There are five sisters left for a
500 bed hospital.
There are medical missionaries going to third world countries who work very
cheap.
You expect the entire Canadian health care system to be the same or the
truth be told you want the socialist way all together.
George Conklin - 19 Aug 2004 10:12 GMT
> > TC, how can you fix a problem you Canadians refuse to admit?
> What a person gets paid is set by the government and not free market. Your
> government is creating the problem with your health care system. How would
> you like it if their were a government take over of computer companies?

    The supply of medical personnel in the USA is highly limited to keep
prices UP.
Robert - 19 Aug 2004 19:53 GMT
> > > TC, how can you fix a problem you Canadians refuse to admit?
> > What a person gets paid is set by the government and not free market. Your
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>      The supply of medical personnel in the USA is highly limited to keep
> prices UP.

The US has similar problems that Canada has for similar reasons, government
input. Under DRG's and more government the money pinch caused working
conditions in many hospitals to either fold or decrease operating costs. As
a result the working conditions at hospitals suffered and a lot of hospitals
closed. A lot of nurses left the hospitals and stress to work at non
hospital settings. Canada has it worse and they prefer to work here as do
doctors.
It is the job market that controls pay, working conditions here and not in
Canada where it is a directly impacted by government spending.
tcomeau - 19 Aug 2004 17:19 GMT
"Robert" <Robert@hotmail.com> wrote in message

<snip>

> > One, it's not as bad as you make it out to be, and
> >
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> > TC
> TC, how can you fix a problem you Canadians refuse to admit?

We are aware of our healthcare problems and we will fix it. It is no
business of yours how we do it or what we do. If you want to make
comparisons don't bother, because you are comparing apples to oranges.
We have a functioning, affordable health system that provides care for
100% of out population.

> What a person gets paid is set by the government and not free market.

It is a free market. Those areas where there is a demand for doctors
will offer more money and extra pay to attract doctors. It just isn't
a free market like the US where doctors charge exhorbitant amounts to
a few rich people while the majority of people cannot afford health
care or healthcare insurance.

Your
> government is creating the problem with your health care system.

There is no problem being created. There are more problems being
resolved than are being created. The doctors and nurses that stay in
Canada are well paid and comfortable financially. They are part of the
cummunity and are happy to contribute to the health of the nation.

How would
> you like it if their were a government take over of computer companies?

Computer companies do not have illness and death to hold over their
clients head to extract exhorbitant fees. Apples and oranges.

If
> they were to pay you third world wages and then if you go to the US have
> other Canadians tell you, "good if all you want is money then go".

Or if they were to fire me and hand my job over to some guy in India
for a few cents an hour..... well that is not happening in Canada, but
it is happening in George Bush's American, land of the free and home
of the tens of thousands dispossessed IT workers.

> We have religious hospitals that were once staffed with sisters of religious
> orders who would not get paid anything. There are five sisters left for a
> 500 bed hospital.
> There are medical missionaries going to third world countries who work very
> cheap.

Good for them.

> You expect the entire Canadian health care system to be the same or the
> truth be told you want the socialist way all together.

See, here is where you go wrong with your arguments. You assume much
more than you should about what our beliefs are and what our system
really is like. And, of course you are so far off the mark that it
becomes an exercise of futility trying yo argue your wrong perceptions
and not the realities.

The entire health care system is not "all the same" and to want it to
be "all the same" is silly. Where you get these ideas, who the hell
knows. For all intents and purposes, out health care system, on the
surface, looks exactly the same as the American. Except that 100% of
Canadians can walk into any doctor's office, or clinic, or hospital,
of their choosing, and be seen and get modern, up-date, medical
treatment. The Canadian doctors then bill the provincial health
authority, or in my province it is a regional health authority, (there
are several thru-out the province).

And when the Canadian doctor is done for the day he retires to his
higher end home in an affluent neighborhood and to his/her family.

As opposed to the US where your doctors retire to their mansions,
their country clubs, their yachts, their gucci shoes and their caviar
while a large number of their fellow American patriots and countrymen,
along with their children and elderly folks, upward of 40% of the
population, go without access to basic health care.

I'll take this "socialist" approach any time. The Canadian health care
system, warts and all, is, in fact, our proudest national achievement,
and rightly so. For an American to criticize it the way you do is
laughable. And for an American to label it "socialist", as if that
were a perjurative, is absolutely hilarious.

TC
Herman Rubin - 19 Aug 2004 20:39 GMT
>"Robert" <Robert@hotmail.com> wrote in message

<snip>

            .........................

>How would
>> you like it if their were a government take over of computer companies?

>Computer companies do not have illness and death to hold over their
>clients head to extract exhorbitant fees. Apples and oranges.

Computers contribute a large amount to the cost of medical
care, as well as a great deal to the availability of
various types of treatment.  I expect that in the not too
distant future there will be a great deal of "telemedicine"
done, in which one will visit the specialist for diagnosis
without having to leave home.  This will not handle surgery
or hospital care, or tests involving equipment which must
be used near the patient.

            .................

>And when the Canadian doctor is done for the day he retires to his
>higher end home in an affluent neighborhood and to his/her family.

>As opposed to the US where your doctors retire to their mansions,
>their country clubs, their yachts, their gucci shoes and their caviar
>while a large number of their fellow American patriots and countrymen,
>along with their children and elderly folks, upward of 40% of the
>population, go without access to basic health care.

When will you utopians realize that there will not be what
I would call "adequate" health care for centuries, at least,
and progress is being stifled by governments?  When Lasix
came out, it was more expensive in the US; it is now much
cheaper than it was then in Canada.  It was competition and
the drive to make money which did it.

>I'll take this "socialist" approach any time. The Canadian health care
>system, warts and all, is, in fact, our proudest national achievement,
>and rightly so. For an American to criticize it the way you do is
>laughable. And for an American to label it "socialist", as if that
>were a perjurative, is absolutely hilarious.

No, it is the Marxist ideal which is hilarious.  The US is
close to government direction of research, and pure research
is being stifled by the allocation of funds.  Before the
government got generous with money, we had lots of really
independent research centers, which had to compete not only
with faculty salaries, but with various types of research
facilities.  Now, they can only say, get it from that
agency of the government which funds this type of research.

Signature

This address is for information only.  I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin@stat.purdue.edu         Phone: (765)494-6054   FAX: (765)494-0558

Robert - 20 Aug 2004 00:20 GMT
> >"Robert" <Robert@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> or hospital care, or tests involving equipment which must
> be used near the patient.

There is already much of the telemedicine in rural areas where doctors are
scarse. They can get a small camera and zoom in the do exams from far away
with the assistance of a nurse or paramedic in remote regions.
Doctors here already have hospital computer access in which they can see all
lab and direct viewing of radiology images. HIS systems are very
sofisticated now that it is priceless in making an impact on patient care.
As soon as an Xray is taken it can be viewed by the doctor a few feet away
or by a specialist several thousand miles away.
Hospital computer systems (HIS) are being used to bar code all medications
to match each medication with each patient to prevent errors. Doctors are
also giving up on the hand written pads and going online so avoid messy
written notes often misinterpreted with bad patient care consequences.
Hospital bar system codes can label a specimen of blood and when that blood
sample is placed in a machine, the appropriate tests are automatically run
and transmitted into the hospital system where transcription errors and
sample ID errors can be avoided.
Computers are very much time savers and provide accuracy that when they do
go down it is a nightmare. We must have 24/7 care of hospital machines and
computer services and they are vital.

They want health care workers in Canada to bare the brunt for the cost and
leave unregulated computer programmers to make a fortune. Because they are
health care workers they must pay for the cost of all the people's health
care. TC can make money because he is not involved in health care. They
should place people responsible for the hospital systems 24/7 in Canada
under the health care system.
Here's what they should tell these students before they attend one class.
You are expected to get low wages and poor working conditions compared to
your non health care counterparts as you are paying for the health care
system yourselves.

Inside the June/July 1999 print edition of
Canadian Healthcare Technology:

Royal Ottawa Hospital to run program for telehealth technicians
By Jerry Zeidenberg

OTTAWA - The Royal Ottawa Hospital has announced that in September, it will
become the site for a year-long program to train telehealth technicians. The
development appears to confirm that demand for "distance medicine" solutions
is growing, as urban hospitals seek to assist physicians and patients in
surrounding areas via computerized networks.

What's often missing from the equation is a pool of well-trained technicians
who are able to install and maintain telehealth systems and computer
networks in general.

To alleviate the shortage, the ROH has entered an agreement with Novatech
Computer Careers of Kingston, Ont., a privately run school that has been
accredited to deliver the telehealth technology courses by the Ontario
government.

For its part, Novatech has taught computer education for six years and
launched its first telehealth training-program a year ago. It's said to be
the only program producing telehealth technicians in Canada, and the courses
cover a wide variety of skills.

"The students have six hours of lectures and labs every day, five days a
week," commented Rick Lawless, president and founder of Novatech. "They
obtain Microsoft and Novell certification, and gain expertise in personal
computers, telecommunications, telephony, cable technologies and computer
security."

He noted that students also learn about medical technologies. "They have
training in medical software and hardware," said Lawless. "It's a hands-on
program. By the end of it, they're able to take a bucket of parts and put a
PC together, or a remote stethoscope."

Admittedly, it's an intensive curriculum, and Novatech will be screening
applicants to make sure they're committed. "One of the most important things
a student can do is to show up every day," said Lawless, adding that a great
deal of motivation and drive is also required to complete the assignments.
Students don't need a background in computer technology, but they must be
eager to learn.

There's a serious financial commitment at stake, too. Tuition is $13,500 for
the program. But Lawless says that similar community college programs
offering Microsoft and Novell certification cost as much as $19,000.

Moreover, Lawless asserts that it's a worthwhile investment, since 95
percent of graduates from the school have found jobs. Companies hiring the
students include Nortel Networks, Newbridge and Corel.

Over the last two years, the school has graduated about 200 students, and
currently employs 25 instructors.

At the Royal Ottawa Hospital, the organizers are expecting about 30
full-time students to enroll. They'll be split into two classes.

Lawless expects that some of the students will be recently laid-off
healthcare workers who are re-training themselves for jobs in high demand -
computer technicians, with special expertise in telehealth. Other applicants
might simply wish to change the direction of their careers.

According to Lawless, the small class size - typically eight to 10
students - is a big boost to learning. He observes that university computer
classes often contain as many as 150 students. "Students there are lucky to
talk to their professors once a year," said Lawless, himself a graduate of
the University of Guelph's public administration program, and in computer
science from Pennsylvania State University.

By contrast, he said that Novatech's students spend much more time with
their instructors, who have all had actual field experience with companies
such as Compaq Computer Corp., Rogers Cablesystems, and others.

For more information about Novatech Computer Careers, including the scope of
the curriculum, readers can visit its web site at www.novatech.on.ca or call
the school at 613-384-7959.
tcomeau - 20 Aug 2004 04:52 GMT
hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) wrote in message

> No, it is the Marxist ideal which is hilarious.  The US is

What the heck does the Marxist ideal have to do with this discussion?

TC
Robert - 20 Aug 2004 07:11 GMT
> hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> TC
read here comrade
Look at the comments about Canada after reading on UK.

http://www.catallarchy.net/blog/archives/2004/06/24/uncle-joe-lives/

CatallarchyJune 24, 2004
Uncle Joe lives
Posted by Andy Duncan @ 5:25 am in General| Comments (7) | Trackback |
Cosmos

Some days you may feel that you have it bad living in America, especially if
you live in somewhere horrific like Taxachusetts. But please spare a thought
this morning for those of us in the UK who think the heady heights of Boston
's Bunker Hill would be an Austro-libertarian wonderland compared to what we
have to put up with over here.

In many ways Britain resembles a living experiment of what it will be like
in the US in a few years time if you let the socialists in Washington DC
take over even more control from your lives. So beware!

Take this morning, for instance. In a few hours time our Health Secretary,
Dr John Reid, an alleged former communist and the current government's Man
of Steel, is going to announce a new five year plan to increase the central
capacity of the National Health Service. This is the NHS, that useless
government-owned socialised medicine monopoly, where after sixty years of
centrally managed failure you can still be forced to wait over a year to get
an urgently required brain tumour operation. And the solution to this
ongoing failure? Yes, you guessed it, more taxes, more regulations, and more
of the same.

As a Marxist who studied communism for many years at University, even
gaining a PhD in economic history, you can be sure Dr John Reid is aware of
the irony of announcing five year plans. However none of this will show on
his normally
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/06/13/ncab113.xml"
target="new">bitter angry face this morning, when he boldly explains his
great new happy shiny "Vision of the Future".

Because of his advanced education Dr John Reid can still take one of
Chairman Joe Stalin's old speeches, first delivered in 1928, and change the
words "Tankograd Sector" to "Hospital Sector" and "Increased tank
production" to "Increased health capacity". However, the good doctor
appears to have learned nothing else. No doubt Dr Reid believes communism
collapsed because of some minor technical flaw created and fostered by evil
fascists and malcontent capitalists. And no doubt in the future, as a
potential British Prime Minister, he will obliterate this flaw to help
create the perfect socialist world, along with his future friends in
Washington DC.

You may think it amusing that we have a closet communist so close to the top
of government here in the UK, a man once ranked as Scotland's most feared
Marxist in a land famous for its fearsome Marxists. But please judge Dr Reid
's five year plan instead as an instructive lesson.

The well-hidden Marxist legions in the western world failed to create their
magnificent communist utopia Mark I, when the Berlin Wall came down. But
many of them are still around and many of them are still marching towards a
magnificent communist utopia Mark II, via the legalistic route of democratic
regulation. Some of them may even be in a Capitol building near you, using
the US healthcare system as a Trojan horse to help destroy what is left of
American freedom. You know who they are. Stop them while you still can.

Comments ?
Might be a bit of perverse national pride but I think Canada's StalinCare
system might be the only one that could give the NHS a run for its money in
terms of incompetence, queuing and overall coercion. Does Britain at least
have a parallel private system to turn to? Our 'second tier' is on the other
side of the US border.

I certainly wish Americans the best of luck in fighting to retain whatever
shreds of freedom remain in their health care system. The alternative (for
citizens and non-citizens alike)is truly unthinkable.

Comment by Jay Jardine - June 24, 2004 @ 8:35 am
tcomeau - 20 Aug 2004 14:35 GMT
And what does this have to do with this discussion?

TC

> > hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) wrote in message
> >
[quoted text clipped - 77 lines]
>
> Comment by Jay Jardine - June 24, 2004 @ 8:35 am
George Conklin - 20 Aug 2004 15:32 GMT
> In many ways Britain resembles a living experiment of what it will be like
> in the US in a few years time if you let the socialists in Washington DC
> take over even more control from your lives. So beware!

 Oh I am just shaking so badly I can hardly type.  Beware of UK.  Yes
folks, universal health care at ***half*** the cost of the USA-style
medicine is a real threat:  to the AMA, not to the public.
tcomeau - 20 Aug 2004 22:04 GMT
> > In many ways Britain resembles a living experiment of what it will be like
> > in the US in a few years time if you let the socialists in Washington DC
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> folks, universal health care at ***half*** the cost of the USA-style
> medicine is a real threat:  to the AMA, not to the public.

Just for clarification, not all physicians are opposed to universal
health care in the US:

http://www.pnhp.org/

TC
George Conklin - 20 Aug 2004 15:30 GMT
> hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> TC

 Government pays for training of nurses in Canada.  Maybe that is why
Herman is confused.  He is a professor teaching in a government-supported
university, but believes that is morally wrong too.  He gets good benefits,
but believes the rest of us should not.  I don't understand.
Herman Rubin - 20 Aug 2004 22:54 GMT
>> hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) wrote in message

>> > No, it is the Marxist ideal which is hilarious.  The US is

>> What the heck does the Marxist ideal have to do with this discussion?

>> TC

>  Government pays for training of nurses in Canada.  Maybe that is why
>Herman is confused.  He is a professor teaching in a government-supported
>university, but believes that is morally wrong too.  He gets good benefits,
>but believes the rest of us should not.  I don't understand.

Our government-sponsored universities compete with private
universities, and the salaries and benefits are definitely
not any better.  I have had offers for industry at salaries
quite a bit higher, and have declined them to remain in the
academic field.  

Do you think those working at comparable levels in industry
do not get paid as well as academic people?

Signature

This address is for information only.  I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin@stat.purdue.edu         Phone: (765)494-6054   FAX: (765)494-0558

Herman Rubin - 20 Aug 2004 22:41 GMT
>hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) wrote in message

>> No, it is the Marxist ideal which is hilarious.  The US is

>What the heck does the Marxist ideal have to do with this discussion?

"From everyone according to his ability, to everyone
according to his need."  The claim of the advocates
of government medicine is that all would get all the
medical care they need.  

This is at best a Marxist ideal; it is IMPOSSIBLE.
A government goon who decides someone does not "need"
something, and therefore keeps him from obtaining it,
when it will not directly harm others, is at best a
scoundrel, and much worse is usually appropriate.

Signature

This address is for information only.  I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin@stat.purdue.edu         Phone: (765)494-6054   FAX: (765)494-0558

tcomeau - 20 Aug 2004 16:55 GMT
> "Robert" <Robert@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> <snip>

<snip>

> Or if they were to fire me and hand my job over to some guy in India
> for a few cents an hour..... well that is not happening in Canada, but
> it is happening in George Bush's American, land of the free and home
> of the tens of thousands dispossessed IT workers.

<snip>

I was wrong and I apologize.

"Under President George W. Bush's leadership, America has lost 1.2
million jobs due to outsourcing. [Economy.com, 3/01 - 2/04]."

It is not tens of thousands but MILLIONS of outsourced jobs.

TC
nobody special - 22 Aug 2004 22:42 GMT
> "Robert" <Robert@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> We have a functioning, affordable health system that provides care for
> 100% of out population.

So does the US.

> > What a person gets paid is set by the government and not free market.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> a few rich people while the majority of people cannot afford health
> care or healthcare insurance.

Not true.

> Your
> > government is creating the problem with your health care system.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Computer companies do not have illness and death to hold over their
> clients head to extract exhorbitant fees. Apples and oranges.

No- the fact that health care personnel and companies provide such an
essential service means that they *should* be rewarded remarkably for their
work.

>  If
> > they were to pay you third world wages and then if you go to the US have
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> becomes an exercise of futility trying yo argue your wrong perceptions
> and not the realities.

One would say the same of you, but there's always hope.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.