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Medical Forum / General / General / July 2004

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Circumcision CONDEMNED by Roman Catholic Church

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answers_here - 17 Jul 2004 10:38 GMT
Circumcision leads to eternal DAMNATION...........

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision#Circumcision_for_religious_purposes

This practice was condemned by the Council of Florence[9]
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06111a.htm) in 1442, held by leading
theologians of the Roman Catholic Church, which said in part:

Therefore it strictly orders all who glory in the name of Christian,
not to practise circumcision either before or after baptism, since
whether or not they place their hope in it, it cannot possibly be
observed without loss of eternal salvation. [10]
(http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/councilflorence/)
L Alpert - 17 Jul 2004 15:16 GMT
> Circumcision leads to eternal DAMNATION...........

Yep, let's use the Xian belief in hell for more control using fear.......

> From:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision#Circumcision_for_religious_purposes

> This practice was condemned by the Council of Florence[9]
> (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06111a.htm) in 1442, held by leading
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> observed without loss of eternal salvation. [10]
> (http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/councilflorence/)
Parker - 19 Jul 2004 12:53 GMT
Most things are condemned by the Roman Catholic Church, matey.  Do you
follow all their rules and prohibitions?   Let us know!
Kenny Thomas - 19 Jul 2004 13:15 GMT
If you don't...your not Catholic.

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David Edwards - 20 Jul 2004 22:56 GMT
> If you don't...your not Catholic.

Kenny I don't understand, you say you are devout Catholic and you
follow the church so that's why you are a virgin, but then you say you
don't have an opinion about abortion which I thought is much more
important to Catholics than virginity.

I will f.ck every cute girl or guy I can get and I can get most of
them because right now I'm young and I have the right look and I'm not
gonna waste one minute of my chances.   I will never allow an abortion
if I can stop it because that is a terrible thing, it stomps out a
life.   The way I see it God would like me more for being against
abortion even tho I'm not a virgin than he would like you for being a
virgin but not fighting abortion.  Why don't you fight abortion
instead of circumcision.  God is totally cool with circumcision anyway
according to the bible.   If he gave us sex he must have meant for us
to use it otherwise why would he fix us so we get the hots when we see
a cutie?  I guess we are about the same age but I can't see me
suppressing my sex like you do.  It would drive me nuts!
Kenny Thomas - 21 Jul 2004 00:22 GMT
David,

I never said I didn't have an opinion on abortion. I do, and have voiced it.
It's wrong.

Suppression of sexual desire is a show of strength. My devotion to God is
greater than my desire to have sex. That is how true Christians are. God
first, me second.

Am I perfect? No, of course not. But I try as hard as I can.

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David Edwards - 21 Jul 2004 10:45 GMT
> David,
>
> Suppression of sexual desire is a show of strength. My devotion to God is
> greater than my desire to have sex.

That is so weird!  When I'm sucking a nice cock or I have some girl
moaning and gasping it's like a religious experience for me.  It's
like doing what God wants,  I can't imagine a God who wasn't cool
about sex.   There sure are some weird religions around!   To each his
own I guess.
Kenny Thomas - 21 Jul 2004 15:13 GMT
David,

God does not appreciate homosexuals or homosexual acts. What you do, I can
promise you God is not the least bit happy with, please read the following
which is printed in ALL Catholic and protestant bibles, I am even sure that
Jews and Muslims and all other religions have crimes against chastity, which
would be pre-marital sex and homosexual acts:

Romans 1: 24 - 32

"24 Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their
hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. 25 They exchanged the
truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than
the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 Therefore, God handed them
over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for
unnatural, 27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females
and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males
and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over
to their discerning mind to do what is improper. 29 They are filled with
every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder,
rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips 30 and scandalmongers and
they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their
wickedness, and rebellious towards their parents. They are senseless,
faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Although they know the just decree of God
that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but
give approval to those who practice them."

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David Edwards - 21 Jul 2004 21:15 GMT
> David,
>
> God does not appreciate homosexuals or homosexual acts. What you do, I can
> promise you God is not the least bit happy with

Dude... seems to me you worship the wrong God.
Sheldon Liberman - 21 Jul 2004 21:28 GMT
> David,
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Jews and Muslims and all other religions have crimes against chastity, which
> would be pre-marital sex and homosexual acts:

I don't imagine He's any too please with you and your efforts to keep Jews
from His covenant with them. You ought not be casting stones.

> Romans 1: 24 - 32
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but
> give approval to those who practice them."
Kenny Thomas - 21 Jul 2004 21:54 GMT
Sheldon,

This conversation may be public, but I was not directing this post to you or
anyone that is Jewish, it was directed at one person.

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"Americans are under the illusion that they can sacrifice the rights of
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Sheldon Liberman - 22 Jul 2004 04:19 GMT
> Sheldon,
>
> This conversation may be public, but I was not directing this post to you or
> anyone that is Jewish, it was directed at one person.

Kenny,
I think you need to learn how to post to the newgroups such that your
response contains the message you are responding to. But since you mention
it, the usenet is a public forum, something you are aware of before you
post, you must therefore expect outside responsesto whatever you may post.
If you want to carry on a private conversation, do so by email.
Kenny Thomas - 22 Jul 2004 06:16 GMT
Sheldon,

I always remove the message I am responding to on purpose, if I don't and
the conversation gets long the message becomes large in size and with all
the carrots (>) and HTML mark-up it gets hard to decipher. I just assume
people can read the previous message and see what I am replying to.

I know that I can expect outside comments, but the comments I made were not
about circumcision but about homosexuality and the evil that it is. The
topic was not circumcision at that time.

Regardless, as I have said many times, I have nothing against the Jewish
people or faith. You are free to practice what you like for now, but yes, I
am fighting to change that. Not because Jews practice it, but because
circumcision itself is wrong. My reasoning has nothing to do with your faith
or the faith of anyone. To me, circumcision is not a religious matter.

Signature

K.T.
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www.tacep.org

Discuss circumcision in a retro-moderated environment at
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"Americans are under the illusion that they can sacrifice the rights of
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Contact Information:
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MSNM - soccer00kid @ yahoo.com.
AIM - #Private#
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Kenny Thomas
PO Box 713
Stockton, MO 65785

David Edwards - 22 Jul 2004 11:10 GMT

> the comments I made were not
> about circumcision but about homosexuality and the evil that it is.

Wow, you think homosexuality is "evil?"  That is such crap.   I don't
like to judge people but this time I gotta say,  Kenny you are a
homophobe and that is really sick.  I wonder if you know how much you
hurt people when you say stuff like that.

Why would God make gay people if he thought it was evil?  Why would he
give people sex if he wanted us to repress it like you?

Sorry Kenny, I really hate to get personal but its so uncool to call
gay people evil.  Do you know a lot of homophobes are closet
homosexuals who hate themselves without even knowing it.  I have to
wonder about you especially when you use relig to justify not having
sex with girls.

Dude you really need to get laid and find out who you are!
Kenny Thomas - 22 Jul 2004 15:12 GMT
David,

I don't care if you or anyone else is homosexual. Do I like it? No. Do I
want to hear about your perversions? No.

If you read the bible you will see MANY entries about the sanctity between a
man and a woman. In the beginning of time God created the man and then the
woman. He told them, he commanded them, "be fruitful and multiply." He never
once in the entire bible said "Have sex, have fun and who cares if you do it
with men or women."

I don't press my beliefs on others. I don't attack you personally and I
never will. I don't call you names and I don't threaten you. I happen to
think what you do is evil and wrong, and it makes me sick.

Am I afraid of homosexuals? No, quite contrary, my girlfriend has a gay male
friend that we hang around with all the time at school. He's a great guy,
but do I think his attraction towards men is right? No, I don't.

You ask "Why would God make gay people if he thought it was evil?  Why would
he give people sex if he wanted us to repress it like you?"

I'll tell you right now that God does not "make" gay people. They give into
all of their desires, they let sex, and not God, be the centre of their
life. All they do is seek pleasure regardless of where they get it from.
Being that way is a direct violation of the commandment that says "I, the
Lord, am your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of
slavery. You shall not have other gods besides me." [Exodus 20:2] Instead of
worshiping God, you are too preoccupied with sex, you are a slave to your
own body. You could care less about God, I don't even need to ask you about
your religious beliefs to know that.

Sex is for the sanctity of marriage, and only marriage. God himself
commanded man and woman to: "Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and
subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and
all the living things that move on the earth." [Genesis 1:28] Even Jesus
himself (who is God) said that sex is only for marriage, and anything
outside of marriage is a sin, a crime of adultery: "You have heard that it
was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you, everyone who
looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his
heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away.
It is better for you to lose one of your members than to have your body
thrown into Gehenna. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off
and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your members than to
have your whole body go into Gehenna." Jesus speaks many times about sex and
the sanctity of marriage, these are just a few.

You asked me these questions, these are my answers. Like them, don't like
them, I don't care. I accept these as truth. These are why I do what I do.

Signature

K.T.
Private Investigator MOCert.
www.tacep.org

Discuss circumcision in a retro-moderated environment at
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"Americans are under the illusion that they can sacrifice the rights of
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Contact Information:
Y! - soccer00kid
MSNM - soccer00kid @ yahoo.com.
AIM - #Private#
Electronic Mail - kenny @ tacep.org
Postal Mail -
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PO Box 713
Stockton, MO 65785

David Edwards - 22 Jul 2004 18:51 GMT
> David,

I don't attack you personally and I
> never will. I don't call you names and I don't threaten you. I happen to
> think what you do is evil and wrong, and it makes me sick.

Oh.
Briar Rabbit - 22 Jul 2004 17:31 GMT
>  
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> homophobe and that is really sick.  I wonder if you know how much you
> hurt people when you say stuff like that.

David, Kenny is in denial. He is bursting to break out of the closet.

Then as Lou sang we will see ...

"Holly came from miami f.l.a.
Hitch-hiked her way across the u.s.a. ..."

This one is going to be  a real cutie pie.
Sheldon Liberman - 22 Jul 2004 13:27 GMT
> Sheldon,
>
> I always remove the message I am responding to on purpose, if I don't and
> the conversation gets long the message becomes large in size and with all
> the carrots (>) and HTML mark-up it gets hard to decipher. I just assume
> people can read the previous message and see what I am replying to.

Well, you assume wrong.

Top posting is considered a breech in netiquette since it makes it difficult
to follow the flow of a discussion and forces the reader to search below to
find the relevent reference. That being the case, how more so would it be
unseemly to cut the entire reference from your reply?

> I know that I can expect outside comments, but the comments I made were not
> about circumcision but about homosexuality and the evil that it is. The
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> circumcision itself is wrong. My reasoning has nothing to do with your faith
> or the faith of anyone. To me, circumcision is not a religious matter.

Well, to us it is. And since it is the position of the Catholic church that
you should not interefere with the beliefs of Jews, whose own road to
salvation runs through their faith, you are de facto subordinating
Catholicism to your personal sensitivities. You are therefore not a
Catholic, just someone who has some common beliefs with those who are.

Have you heard the maxim that "the road to h-ll is paved with good
intentions "? Jews don't believe in the concept, at least not the same way
Christians do, but the saying itself has value. It means that if you go
against the teachings of the Bible in favor of something that makes more
sense to personally, you are de facto elevating your personal wisdom above
its Author.. That's a grave sin indeed.

Moreover, by attempting to inflict harm on the Jews--and don't delude
yourself into thinking that a ban on circumcision wouldn't be extremely
harmful to Jews--you or show a total lack of gratitude not only to those to
made possible your faith, but those who fought tooth-and-nail against the
Roman practice of feeding Christians to the lions.
Kenny Thomas - 22 Jul 2004 15:21 GMT
Sheldon,

I'm sorry you don't like how I post my messages. I hate hunting through a
bunch of replies to find one relevant sentence, I just go back to the
previous post and find it.

I am Catholic, I respect other's religions, including the Jewish faith.
However, there is something morally wrong with circumcision. I am not doing
this to attack the Jewish faith, I am doing this to prevent harm from being
done to individuals.

I would like to ask you something in all seriousness. Please, don't attack
me for this or call me names for not knowing the answer, but, if you had a
baby boy tomorrow, and the law prevented infant circumcision, but after the
age of 18 a male can decide to circumcise himself, would that be allowed? I
also have another question, there are many groups out there that are made up
completely of Jewish people that oppose circumcision. They still perform the
bris, but it is an alternate one that removes no skin at all. Would this be
a possibility? I'm also curious, why must you remove all of the skin? As far
as I know God wasn't too specific, all he said is to circumcise the flesh of
the foreskin, and you know, to be honest, a circumcision doesn't have to
mean you have to cut anything off, circumcise just means to "cut around,"
and as I'm sure you have, I have cut my finger before with a knife on
accident, and that doesn't mean my finger was cut off. Not that these would
be acceptable to me either, but I would be far more comfortable with
something like that than I would a complete alteration of someone's body. Or
is it just Jews cut the entire foreskin off because of tradition? If it's
just tradition couldn't the tradition be broken and just allow the things I
mentioned before be performed?

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Kenny Thomas
PO Box 713
Stockton, MO 65785

>
> > Sheldon,
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> made possible your faith, but those who fought tooth-and-nail against the
> Roman practice of feeding Christians to the lions.
Briar Rabbit - 22 Jul 2004 17:19 GMT
>>Sheldon,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> post, you must therefore expect outside responsesto whatever you may post.
> If you want to carry on a private conversation, do so by email.

Kenny does not have the smarts to figure that out.
David Edwards - 21 Jul 2004 22:01 GMT
> David,
>
> God does not appreciate homosexuals or homosexual acts. What you do, I can
> promise you God is not the least bit happy with

Dude... seems to me you worship the wrong God.
Kenny Thomas - 21 Jul 2004 22:17 GMT
David,

Can you tell me any religion that condones homosexuals? Any at all? No
Christians do, and that counts out the majority of the world.

Signature

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www.tacep.org

Discuss circumcision in a retro-moderated environment at
http://forums.tacep.org/

"Americans are under the illusion that they can sacrifice the rights of
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Contact Information:
Y! - soccer00kid
MSNM - soccer00kid @ yahoo.com.
AIM - #Private#
Electronic Mail - kenny @ tacep.org
Postal Mail -
Kenny Thomas
PO Box 713
Stockton, MO 65785

L Alpert - 22 Jul 2004 01:05 GMT
> David,
>
> Can you tell me any religion that condones homosexuals? Any at all? No
> Christians do, and that counts out the majority of the world.

Leaves little to say about religion.
howard aubrey - 22 Jul 2004 00:42 GMT
> David,
>
> God

Prove that god exists, and then get back to us.  Until you do,
you're just another lunatic who hears voices.

cheers....

HJA
Kenny Thomas - 22 Jul 2004 00:51 GMT
Howard,

Prove to me God doesn't exist.

There is a reason why it's called "Faith."

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Electronic Mail - kenny @ tacep.org
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PO Box 713
Stockton, MO 65785

L Alpert - 22 Jul 2004 01:07 GMT
> Howard,
>
> Prove to me God doesn't exist.
>
> There is a reason why it's called "Faith."

There are those that are happy to follow faith, and others that care for
objective evidence.
Kenny Thomas - 22 Jul 2004 01:17 GMT
John 20: 24-29

"24 Thomas, called Didymus, one of the Twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples said to him, 'We have seen the Lord.' But he said to them, 'Unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands and put my finger into the nailmarks and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.' 26 Now a week later his disciples were again inside and Thomas was with them. Jesus came, although the doors were locked, and stood in their midst and said 'Peace be with you.' 27 Then he said to Thomas, 'Put your finger here and see my hands, and bring your hand and put it into my side, and do not be unbelieving, but believe.' 28 Thomas answered and said to him 'My Lord and my God!' 29 Jesus said to him, 'Have you come to believe because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.'"

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Discuss circumcision in a retro-moderated environment at http://forums.tacep.org/

"Americans are under the illusion that they can sacrifice the rights of others and still maintain their own" - Anthony Romero

Contact Information:
Y! - soccer00kid
MSNM - soccer00kid @ yahoo.com.
AIM - #Private#
Electronic Mail - kenny @ tacep.org
Postal Mail -
Kenny Thomas
PO Box 713
Stockton, MO 65785

Sheldon Liberman - 22 Jul 2004 04:21 GMT
> > David,
> >
> > God
>
> Prove that god exists, and then get back to us.  Until you do,
> you're just another lunatic who hears voices.

Is that what happened to you at Bellvue, How-wierd?

> cheers....
>
> HJA
David Edwards - 20 Jul 2004 22:56 GMT
> If you don't...your not Catholic.

Kenny I don't understand, you say you are devout Catholic and you
follow the church so that's why you are a virgin, but then you say you
don't have an opinion about abortion which I thought is much more
important to Catholics than virginity.

I will f.ck every cute girl or guy I can get and I can get most of
them because right now I'm young and I have the right look and I'm not
gonna waste one minute of my chances.   I will never allow an abortion
if I can stop it because that is a terrible thing, it stomps out a
life.   The way I see it God would like me more for being against
abortion even tho I'm not a virgin than he would like you for being a
virgin but not fighting abortion.  Why don't you fight abortion
instead of circumcision.  God is totally cool with circumcision anyway
according to the bible.   If he gave us sex he must have meant for us
to use it otherwise why would he fix us so we get the hots when we see
a cutie?  I guess we are about the same age but I can't see me
suppressing my sex like you do.  It would drive me nuts!
Stan de SD - 20 Jul 2004 19:36 GMT
> Most things are condemned by the Roman Catholic Church, matey.  Do you
> follow all their rules and prohibitions?   Let us know!

Based on that wacknut's obsession with masturbation, I doubt it... sheesh.
Ralph - 22 Jul 2004 19:07 GMT
do you mean those wonderful people who gave us the spanish inquisition &
child molestation?

> Most things are condemned by the Roman Catholic Church, matey.  Do you
> follow all their rules and prohibitions?   Let us know!
 
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