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Medical Forum / General / General / February 2004Never allow psychiatry to force itself upon you.
The dangers inherent in the administration of antipsychotic drugs highlights the importance of the individual's interest in avoiding forced treatment. These medications can produce debilitating, life- altering and even fatal side-effects. Thus, they bear no resemblance to much less intrusive medical interventions which courts have detennined implicate only a minimal liberty interest. See Schmerber, 384 U.S. at 771 (pin prick of finger for a blood test). Indeed, the risks and extent of that inherent in the administration of antipsychotic drugs to pretrial detainees are at least as serious as those which the Court has previously held to outweigh the government's interests. See Winston v. Lee, 470 U.S. 753,755- 56 (1985) (surgical removal of a bullet); Rochin v. California, 342 U.S. 165,172 (1952) (forced insertion of a stomach pump). The use of chemical agents to alter one's mind and to potentially affect one's muscular and other bodily functions is at least as invasive as the mechanical invasion of surgery. The pre-trial detainee's interest in avoiding the administration of these dangerous and potentially life-threatening drugs should not be infringed unless the government's action is the least restrictive means by which it may accomplish a compelling interest. When those drugs harm pre-trail detainees, it will also harm the private person. Look at Dave Rice. He is swallowing such stuff and recommending it to others over and over again. Then he posts stuff like suggesting to kill members of the FBI and claims later he can't remember that anymore. Terrible what those drugs do to you! Barbara Schwarz (the only real one) P.S. Postings with e-mail address Barbara_Schwarz@emailaccount.com and identities "Barbara_Schwarz", "the real Barbara Schwarz de Rothschild" and "Truth Speaker 2" are not done by me. Those are forgeries of criminal, Aids infected, gay lunatic Garry Lynn Scarff who is a fanatical Dave Touretzky defender. Scarff persecutes me from thread to thread often using my name as identity for those crimes (!) and verbally assaults me, threatens me, harasses me, sexually harasses me, tries to intimidate me, libels, insults and lies about me. He also lied that he spoke to a roomate of mine in the Utah mental health hospital. I never was in that hospital, but he probably escaped from one. Scarff is active member of the gay WeHo "church", that according to Scarff applaudes Scarffs lawless behavior against me. An ex-WeHo member wrote me that this "church" sanctions and promotes dishonorable behavior and that he and his friends were raped and drugged by one of their active members, and that one of their active members murdered others under the guise of "drug overdose". The ex-WeHo wrote that the gay men make sexual innuendo during sermon and "church" leadership doesn't see what's wrong with that. Frederic Rice, another fierce David Touretzky defender, posted also with the stolen identity de Rothschild. He is as little a de Rothschild as a dirty slimy and greasy punch bag is an impressive man. He threatened governmental officials over the Internet, wants to celebrate when both President Bush's are dead and has tips on his website on how to kill bikers. His brother David Rice, posts with "Dr." or "Reverend" Desertphile and also with the stolen identity de Rothschild. He suggested to kill members of the FBI. (Go to www.religiousfreedom.watch.org, the extremist pages on David Touretzky, page 9, his connections and click on the PDF file.) Dave Rice also posted a long time with the identity "Prozac filled gay terrorist psycho", which tells a lot about him. Barbara Graham Warr, self-proclaimed "caplain" of the A.R.S. newsgroup and snakepit, another David Touretzky promoter, is a DUI offender and pleaded guilty to possession and manufacturing of prohibited weapon under California penal code. She congratulated the WeHo "congregation" accepting Scarff's criminal behaviors against me. However, she posted before that there is no God. She also posts with stolen identity de Rothschild. - For more, click on the below links. ---------------------------------------------- Linda Anderson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/andersenl1.html Gerald Armstrong http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/armstrong1.html Jim Beebe http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/beebej1.html Graham Berry http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/berry.html David Bird http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/birdd1.html Tory Christman http://religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/christmant4.html Ursula Caberta http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/caberta.html Ida Camburn http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/camburn1.html Joe Cisar http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/cisarj1.html Robert Clark http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/clark1.html Elizabeth Ann Cox http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/coxea1.html Mark Dallara http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/dallara1.html Alexander Dvorkin http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/dvorkin1.html Valerie Emanuel http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/emanuelv1.html Steven Fishman http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/fishman1.html Vickki Ford Cook http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/fordv1.html Phil Georgi http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/jacobsen6.html Scott Goehring http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/goehrings1.html Roger Gonnet http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/gonnet1.html Barbara Graham http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/graham1.html Gregg Hagglund http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/hagglund1.html Steve Hassan http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/hassan1.html Tilman Hausherr http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/hauser1.html Andreas Heldal-Lund http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lund1.html Keith Henson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/henson1.html Deana Holmes http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/holmes1.html Jeff Jacobsen http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/jacobsen1.html Patrick Jost http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/jost1.html Charlotte Kates http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/katesc1.html Rod Keller http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/keller1.html Steven Kent http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/kent1.html Arnie Lerma http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lerma1.html Joe Lynn http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lynn1.html Ted Mayett http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/mayett1.html Frank Oliver http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/oliver.html Kady O'Malley http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/omalley1.html Zenon Panoussis http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/panoussis1.html Ted Patrick http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/patrick1.html Michael Pattinson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/pattinsonm1.html Robert Peterson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/peterson1.html Bruce/Kathleen Pettycrew http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/pettycrew.html Jesse Prince http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/prince1.html Roland Rashleigh-Berry http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/rashleighb1.html David Rice http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/riced.html Fred Rice http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/ricef.html Rick Ross http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/rossr1.html Karin Spaink http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/spaink1.html David Touretzky http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/touretzky1.html Alan Walter http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/walter1.html Grady Ward http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/ward.html Johan Wevers http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/weversj1.html Hana/Jerry Whitfield http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/whitfield1.html Larry Wollersheim http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/wollersheim1.html Sten-Arne Zerpe http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/zerpesa1.html -- http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org -- > The dangers inherent in the administration of antipsychotic drugs > highlights the importance of the individual's interest in avoiding [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > like suggesting to kill members of the FBI and claims later he can't > remember that anymore. Terrible what those drugs do to you! Psychiatrists attempt to get the patient/victim to sign a legal waiver. Tells you something about there treatment. Psychiatric medication with antipsychotics is like a slow chemical lobotomy of the entire brain. The administrators and departments of health, professors and such are into this huge medical malpractise and fraud. To a large extent psychiatrists are stooges in this medical euthanasia. If a few of the patients/victims would cotton on to this there would be a whole run of murder suicides in psychiatric clinics, hospitals, wards. I wonder if this person who provides us his expert advice, has ever actually sat down and interacted with a few of those people who he says, should never allow.... I think a few years of volunteer experience and maybe a little therapy work thrown in, would significantly improve his thinking. Maybe he'd do shorter messages too. Cheers -- Martha Adams >> The dangers inherent in the administration of antipsychotic drugs >> highlights the importance of the individual's interest in avoiding [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > there would be a whole run > of murder suicides in psychiatric clinics, hospitals, wards. You are sadly either totally misinformed, making this up, or a complete loon. It makes no difference to me, the end result is the same: your exposition is complete lunacy. Q > Psychiatrists attempt to get the patient/victim to sign a legal waiver. > Tells you something about there treatment. You can't get so much as a tonsillectomy without a waiver. So do without medical treatment entirely. Please. It will be one less moron, which is a good thing. > Psychiatrists attempt to get the patient/victim to sign a legal waiver. > Tells you something about there treatment. Psychiatric medication with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > patients/victims would cotton on to this there would be a whole run > of murder suicides in psychiatric clinics, hospitals, wards. Get back on medication ASAP. You are suffering from paranoic delusions. Barb is a lost case to humanity , but for you there might be some hope. And by the way, next time you feel like throwing accusations around, please do your homework - get the facts - and mayby you will find somebody that actually would listen to what you are saying. Orkeltatte The real thing > Get back on medication ASAP. You are suffering from paranoic > delusions. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > please do your homework - get the facts - and mayby you will find > somebody that actually would listen to what you are saying. Orkelltatte, I believe you just accused a person without doing your homework. you told a stranger s/he had what describe as paranoic delusions. without living with them. without having a relationship of any kind with them. without even sitting down and talking with them. > > The dangers inherent in the administration of antipsychotic drugs > > highlights the importance of the individual's interest in avoiding [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > patients/victims would cotton on to this there would be a whole run > of murder suicides in psychiatric clinics, hospitals, wards. You know what, Nfowli, you are right. Hospitals and doctors ask the patients to fill our an enormous amount of paper work to protect them from legal actions. But Dave Touretzky and Peter Alexander and their fanatical friends try to steal the rights of Scientologists signing a waiver against psychiatric treatments. Otherswise, the detrimental effects of antipsychotic drugs alter the patient's thought processes and ability to think and reason. (No wonder so many posters post wild illogical text!) The fact that antipsychotic drugs are intended to benefit a patient (and I personally doubt that they were developed with good intentions) by restoring "normal" thought processes should not reduce the level of scrutiny where the government seeks to forcibly administer these agents. As Justice Brandeis warned in Olmstead v.U.S., 277 U.S. 438,479 (1928) (Brandeis, J., Concurring): Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. More recently, several members of this Court have affirmed that judicial scrutiny of government's intrusion on individuals' rights is not lessened merely because the government asserts benevolent motives. In Adarand Constructors, Inc. v. Pena, 515 U.S. 200, 226 (1995), this Court held that strict scrutiny applies to racial classifications by the government even where the racial classification is "benign." Justice Thomas dismissed the notion that any lesser standard of review should be applied to actions which the government claimed were well-meaning: That these programs have been motivated, in part, by good intentions cannot provide refuge from the principle thatunder our Constitution, the government may not make distinctions on the basis of race. Adarand Constructors, 515 U.S. at 240 (Thomas, J., concurring). Several years earlier, Justice O'Connor, joined by Chief Justice Rehnquist and Justices Scalia and Kennedy, criticized the Court's lesser standard of review for "benign racial classifications," stating, "the Court's emphasis on 'benign racial classifications' suggests confidence in its ability to distinguish good from harmful uses of racial criteria. History should teach greater humility." Metro Broadcasting, Inc. v. FCC, 497 U.S. 547,609 (1990) (O'Connor, J., dissenting). See also Mississippi Univ.for Women v. Hogan, 458 U.S. 718, 723 (1982) (That a statute discriminated against males rather than females "does not exempt it from scrutiny or reduce the standard of review.") Moreover, lowering the bar for the government to forcibly administer mind-altering drugs to an individual where it does so to "restore normalcy" would require courts to make the historically elusive and dubious distinction between normal and abnormal thoughts. What constitutes normal mental processes is necessarily subjective and changes over time. No objective definition of normalcy can be identified by which courts can differentiate between well-intended and ill-intended forced injections of individuals with antipsychotic medications. For example, as recently as the late 1980's Soviet psychiatrists used antipsychotic medication to "treat" individuals for "delusions of reformism" and "anti-Soviet thoughts." Richard J. Bonnie & Svetlana v. Polubinskaya, Unraveling Soviet Psychiatry, 10 J. CONTEMP. LEGAL ISSUES 279, 282-83 (1999). Buck v. Bell, 274 U.S. 200,207 (1927) with Skinner v. Oklahoma, 316 U.S. 535,541 (1942) (criticizing rationale of Buck). In view of the jurisprudential lessons of history in this area, the Court should avoid making itself the final arbiter for what are normal or abnormal thoughts. Such would come perilously close to the government prescribed orthodoxy of thought that this Court refuted in West Virginia v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624, 642 (1943). Well what does this mean? It means that the posters that scream that a person should take anti-psychotic medicine, as they don't agree with her views and opinions, is at heart and mind nothing but an old and moldy Soviet, a communist, as invented by the Germans. Barbara Schwarz (the only real one) P.S. Postings with e-mail address Barbara_Schwarz@emailaccount.com and identities "Barbara_Schwarz", "the real Barbara Schwarz de Rothschild" and "Truth Speaker 2" are not done by me. Those are forgeries of criminal, Aids infected, gay lunatic Garry Lynn Scarff who is a fanatical Dave Touretzky defender. Scarff persecutes me from thread to thread often using my name as identity for those crimes (!) and verbally assaults me, threatens me, harasses me, sexually harasses me, tries to intimidate me, libels, insults and lies about me. He also lied that he spoke to a roomate of mine in the Utah mental health hospital. I never was in that hospital, but he probably escaped from one. Scarff is active member of the gay WeHo "church", that according to Scarff applaudes Scarffs lawless behavior against me. An ex-WeHo member wrote me that this "church" sanctions and promotes dishonorable behavior and that he and his friends were raped and drugged by one of their active members, and that one of their active members murdered others under the guise of "drug overdose". The ex-WeHo wrote that the gay men make sexual innuendo during sermon and "church" leadership doesn't see what's wrong with that. Frederic Rice, another fierce David Touretzky defender, posted also with the stolen identity de Rothschild. He is as little a de Rothschild as a dirty slimy and greasy punch bag is an impressive man. He threatened governmental officials over the Internet, wants to celebrate when both President Bush's are dead and has tips on his website on how to kill bikers. His brother David Rice, posts with "Dr." or "Reverend" Desertphile and also with the stolen identity de Rothschild. He suggested to kill members of the FBI. (Go to www.religiousfreedom.watch.org, the extremist pages on David Touretzky, page 9, his connections and click on the PDF file.) Dave Rice also posted a long time with the identity "Prozac filled gay terrorist psycho", which tells a lot about him. Barbara Graham Warr, self-proclaimed "caplain" of the A.R.S. newsgroup and snakepit, another David Touretzky promoter, is a DUI offender and pleaded guilty to possession and manufacturing of prohibited weapon under California penal code. She congratulated the WeHo "congregation" accepting Scarff's criminal behaviors against me. However, she posted before that there is no God. She also posts with stolen identity de Rothschild. - For more, click on the below links. ---------------------------------------------- Linda Anderson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/andersenl1.html Gerald Armstrong http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/armstrong1.html Jim Beebe http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/beebej1.html Graham Berry http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/berry.html David Bird http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/birdd1.html Tory Christman http://religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/christmant4.html Ursula Caberta http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/caberta.html Ida Camburn http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/camburn1.html Joe Cisar http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/cisarj1.html Robert Clark http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/clark1.html Elizabeth Ann Cox http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/coxea1.html Mark Dallara http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/dallara1.html Alexander Dvorkin http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/dvorkin1.html Valerie Emanuel http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/emanuelv1.html Steven Fishman http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/fishman1.html Vickki Ford Cook http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/fordv1.html Phil Georgi http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/jacobsen6.html Scott Goehring http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/goehrings1.html Roger Gonnet http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/gonnet1.html Barbara Graham http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/graham1.html Gregg Hagglund http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/hagglund1.html Steve Hassan http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/hassan1.html Tilman Hausherr http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/hauser1.html Andreas Heldal-Lund http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lund1.html Keith Henson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/henson1.html Deana Holmes http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/holmes1.html Jeff Jacobsen http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/jacobsen1.html Patrick Jost http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/jost1.html Charlotte Kates http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/katesc1.html Rod Keller http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/keller1.html Steven Kent http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/kent1.html Arnie Lerma http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lerma1.html Joe Lynn http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lynn1.html Ted Mayett http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/mayett1.html Frank Oliver http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/oliver.html Kady O'Malley http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/omalley1.html Zenon Panoussis http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/panoussis1.html Ted Patrick http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/patrick1.html Michael Pattinson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/pattinsonm1.html Robert Peterson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/peterson1.html Bruce/Kathleen Pettycrew http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/pettycrew.html Jesse Prince http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/prince1.html Roland Rashleigh-Berry http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/rashleighb1.html David Rice http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/riced.html Fred Rice http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/ricef.html Rick Ross http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/rossr1.html Karin Spaink http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/spaink1.html David Touretzky http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/touretzky1.html Alan Walter http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/walter1.html Grady Ward http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/ward.html Johan Wevers http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/weversj1.html Hana/Jerry Whitfield http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/whitfield1.html Larry Wollersheim http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/wollersheim1.html Sten-Arne Zerpe http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/zerpesa1.html -- http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org -- |
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