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Medical Forum / General / General / January 2004What anti-psychotic drugs do to you!
Antipsychotic drugs may also result in many other debilitating, albeit nonfatal, side effects. Courts have previously recognized that antipsychotic drugs can cause tardive dyskinesia, "a neurological disorder", teversible in some cases, that is characterized by involuntaIy, uncontrollable movements of various muscles, especially around the face." Harper, 494 U.S. at 229-30, citing Mills v. Rogers, 457 U.S. 291,293, n.l (1982). That explains the typical twitch that some psychs and mental patients have in their faces! InHarper, the court recognized that between 10 and 25% of those treated with antipsychotic drugs will develop tardive dyskinesia. 494 U.S. at 229-30. Other side effects of antipsychotic drugs which courts have recognized include acute dystonia, "a severe involuntaty spasm of the upper body, tongue, throat, or eyes," and akathisia, "motor restlesness, often characterized by an inability to sit still." Harper, 494 U.S.at229-30. See also Mills, 457 U.S. at 293, n.l. Some evidence also suggests that "akathisia, in the extreme case, can drive people to suicide or to homicide." Cichon, 53 lA. L. REv. at 302, quoting Theodore VanPutten & Stephen R Marder, Behavioral Toxicity of Antipsychotic Drugs, 48 J. CLINICAL PSYCHIATRY 13, 14 (1987). Some studies have indicated that over 60% of those who receive antipsychotic drugs will suffer from some symptoms of akathisia, with over 20% suffering from severe akathisia. Cichon, 53 LA. L. REv. at 302. So, who in the world is so stupid to put those drugs in someone's body? Those that demand others to be medicated with them are truly suppressive, and those taking them are out of their minds or completely uninformed. Why would Dave Touretzky, Peter Alexander and so many other ARS posters and extremist attack Scientologists for signing waivers against psychiatric treatment? Are those terrible side effects what those guys want for Scientologists and others? Barbara Schwarz (the only real one) P.S. Postings with e-mail address Barbara_Schwarz@emailaccount.com and identities "Barbara_Schwarz", "the real Barbara Schwarz de Rothschild" and "Truth Speaker 2" are not done by me. Those are forgeries of criminal, Aids infected, gay lunatic Garry Lynn Scarff who is a fanatical Dave Touretzky defender. Scarff persecutes me from thread to thread often using my name as identity for those crimes (!) and verbally assaults me, threatens me, harasses me, sexually harasses me, tries to intimidate me, libels, insults and lies about me. He also lied that he spoke to a roomate of mine in the Utah mental health hospital. I never was in that hospital, but he probably escaped from one. Scarff is active member of the gay WeHo "church", that according to Scarff applaudes Scarffs lawless behavior against me. An ex-WeHo member wrote me that this "church" sanctions and promotes dishonorable behavior and that he and his friends were raped and drugged by one of their active members, and that one of their active members murdered others under the guise of "drug overdose". The ex-WeHo wrote that the gay men make sexual innuendo during sermon and "church" leadership doesn't see what's wrong with that. Frederic Rice, another fierce David Touretzky defender, posted also with the stolen identity de Rothschild. He is as little a de Rothschild as a dirty slimy and greasy punch bag is an impressive man. He threatened governmental officials over the Internet, wants to celebrate when both President Bush's are dead and has tips on his website on how to kill bikers. His brother David Rice, posts with "Dr." or "Reverend" Desertphile and also with the stolen identity de Rothschild. He suggested to kill members of the FBI. (Go to www.religiousfreedom.watch.org, the extremist pages on David Touretzky, page 9, his connections and click on the PDF file.) Dave Rice also posted a long time with the identity "Prozac filled gay terrorist psycho", which tells a lot about him. Barbara Graham Warr, self-proclaimed "caplain" of the A.R.S. newsgroup and snakepit, another David Touretzky promoter, is a DUI offender and pleaded guilty to possession and manufacturing of prohibited weapon under California penal code. She congratulated the WeHo "congregation" accepting Scarff's criminal behaviors against me. However, she posted before that there is no God. She also posts with stolen identity de Rothschild. - For more, click on the below links. ---------------------------------------------- Linda Anderson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/andersenl1.html Gerald Armstrong http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/armstrong1.html Jim Beebe http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/beebej1.html Graham Berry http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/berry.html David Bird http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/birdd1.html Tory Christman http://religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/christmant4.html Ursula Caberta http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/caberta.html Ida Camburn http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/camburn1.html Joe Cisar http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/cisarj1.html Robert Clark http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/clark1.html Elizabeth Ann Cox http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/coxea1.html Mark Dallara http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/dallara1.html Alexander Dvorkin http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/dvorkin1.html Valerie Emanuel http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/emanuelv1.html Steven Fishman http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/fishman1.html Vickki Ford Cook http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/fordv1.html Phil Georgi http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/jacobsen6.html Scott Goehring http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/goehrings1.html Roger Gonnet http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/gonnet1.html Barbara Graham http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/graham1.html Gregg Hagglund http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/hagglund1.html Steve Hassan http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/hassan1.html Tilman Hausherr http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/hauser1.html Andreas Heldal-Lund http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lund1.html Keith Henson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/henson1.html Deana Holmes http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/holmes1.html Jeff Jacobsen http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/jacobsen1.html Patrick Jost http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/jost1.html Charlotte Kates http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/katesc1.html Rod Keller http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/keller1.html Steven Kent http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/kent1.html Arnie Lerma http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lerma1.html Joe Lynn http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lynn1.html Ted Mayett http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/mayett1.html Frank Oliver http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/oliver.html Kady O'Malley http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/omalley1.html Zenon Panoussis http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/panoussis1.html Ted Patrick http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/patrick1.html Michael Pattinson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/pattinsonm1.html Robert Peterson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/peterson1.html Bruce/Kathleen Pettycrew http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/pettycrew.html Jesse Prince http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/prince1.html Roland Rashleigh-Berry http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/rashleighb1.html David Rice http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/riced.html Fred Rice http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/ricef.html Rick Ross http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/rossr1.html Karin Spaink http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/spaink1.html David Touretzky http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/touretzky1.html Alan Walter http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/walter1.html Grady Ward http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/ward.html Johan Wevers http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/weversj1.html Hana/Jerry Whitfield http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/whitfield1.html Larry Wollersheim http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/wollersheim1.html Sten-Arne Zerpe http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/zerpesa1.html -- http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org -- ARS-is-a-cult@myway.com (The only true Barbara Schwarz - other postings with my name are forgeries) wrote: > Antipsychotic drugs may also result in many other debilitating, albeit > nonfatal, side effects. It is conceivable that fatal side effects may result, although I am of course no expert on pharmacology. I know of at least one drug - often prescribed for relatively low-grade psychological problems - which lists 'stroke' as one of its potential side-effects. Although I realise this is not invariably fatal it is certainly something to consider. I will, however, not name the drug in question since I do not wish to alarm those who have been taking it with no problems. And let us bear in mind that what is listed as a 'side-effect' is usually some affliction suffered by a person whilst taking the medication, and cannot always be accounted for by the medicine itself. Others, such as facial twitches or other erratic muscle response, can certainly be linked quite routinely to the substance. > That explains the typical twitch that > some psychs and mental patients have in their faces! It certainly COULD explain it. But it is not a given. > Some > evidence also suggests that "akathisia, in the extreme case, can drive > people to suicide or to homicide." As can mental illness. And this brings us neatly to: > So, who in the world is so stupid to put those drugs in someone's > body? Those that demand others to be medicated with them are truly > suppressive, and those taking them are out of their minds or > completely uninformed. Not necessarily. Many patients who have reached the stage where they recognise their illness are willing to take the risk of inducing side- effects if there is a possibility that the drug will ease their illness. Since you have evidently not reached the point of recognising your own mental health condition this is likely to be a difficult idea for you to grasp. Whilst it may seem odd to one such as yourself that people willingly submit themselves to the ministrations of the psychiatric profession, at whatever level, it is certainly the rational option. These drugs have been tried, tested, and shown to be effective in an experimentally significant number of cases. Something which can certainly not be claimed for the processes which Scientology would advocate for treating the mentally ill. Scientology, or Dianetics, appears to me to be the psychological equivalent of faith healing, Christian Science or 'tachyon' products - more religion than medicine, as indeed the 'Church' of Scientology itself admits it is. > Are those terrible side effects what those guys want for Scientologists > and others? Everyone who takes any drug risks side effects. One of the most alarming lists of possible side effects I have seen comes bundled in a standard pack of aspirin - but how many ever bother to read it? Just gulp a couple to cure your headache and get on with things. As you yourself have said, most of the side-effects for psychoactive drugs are relatively benign, or certainly slow-moving. There is usually ample time to identify a side- effect and change treatments, and where this is not an option, the decision is usually made on the principle of the lesser of two evils. -- Midwinter brilliant, basic common sense, Midwinter! thanks. as a sufferer, I am fully aware & choose to take a category of <prescribed> drug, despite side effects. the alternative - debilitating depression - is far worse for me & the people I love. > ARS-is-a-cult@myway.com (The only true Barbara Schwarz - other postings > with my name are forgeries) wrote: > > > Antipsychotic drugs may also result in many other debilitating, albeit > > nonfatal, side effects. > > It is conceivable that fatal side effects may result, although I am of > course no expert on pharmacology. I know of at least one drug - often > prescribed for relatively low-grade psychological problems - which lists > 'stroke' as one of its potential side-effects. Although I realise this is > not invariably fatal it is certainly something to consider. > > I will, however, not name the drug in question since I do not wish to > alarm those who have been taking it with no problems. > > And let us bear in mind that what is listed as a 'side-effect' is usually > some affliction suffered by a person whilst taking the medication, and > cannot always be accounted for by the medicine itself. Others, such as > facial twitches or other erratic muscle response, can certainly be linked > quite routinely to the substance. > > > > > That explains the typical twitch that > > some psychs and mental patients have in their faces! > > It certainly COULD explain it. But it is not a given. > > > > > Some > > evidence also suggests that "akathisia, in the extreme case, can drive > > people to suicide or to homicide." > > As can mental illness. And this brings us neatly to: > > > > > So, who in the world is so stupid to put those drugs in someone's > > body? Those that demand others to be medicated with them are truly > > suppressive, and those taking them are out of their minds or > > completely uninformed. > > Not necessarily. Many patients who have reached the stage where they > recognise their illness are willing to take the risk of inducing side- > effects if there is a possibility that the drug will ease their illness. > Since you have evidently not reached the point of recognising your own > mental health condition this is likely to be a difficult idea for you to > grasp. > > Whilst it may seem odd to one such as yourself that people willingly > submit themselves to the ministrations of the psychiatric profession, at > whatever level, it is certainly the rational option. These drugs have > been tried, tested, and shown to be effective in an experimentally > significant number of cases. Something which can certainly not be claimed > for the processes which Scientology would advocate for treating the > mentally ill. Scientology, or Dianetics, appears to me to be the > psychological equivalent of faith healing, Christian Science or 'tachyon' > products - more religion than medicine, as indeed the 'Church' of > Scientology itself admits it is. > > > > > Are those terrible side effects what those guys want for Scientologists > > and others? > > Everyone who takes any drug risks side effects. One of the most alarming > lists of possible side effects I have seen comes bundled in a standard > pack of aspirin - but how many ever bother to read it? Just gulp a couple > to cure your headache and get on with things. As you yourself have said, > most of the side-effects for psychoactive drugs are relatively benign, or > certainly slow-moving. There is usually ample time to identify a side- > effect and change treatments, and where this is not an option, the > decision is usually made on the principle of the lesser of two evils. > > -- > Midwinter > ARS-is-a-cult@myway.com (The only true Barbara Schwarz - other postings > with my name are forgeries) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > recognise their illness are willing to take the risk of inducing side- > effects if there is a possibility that the drug will ease their illness. If somebody has a pain in his leg, he may even consider amputation. The point is, if "treatment" is not improving a condition but just exchanging one effect with another "side"-effect, is this a rational treatment? The problem with psychiatrists is, that they have no clue what causes mental illnesses. As the mainstream of them operates on the materialistic basis, that all mental conditions have more or less a physiological cause, they resort to drugs, brain surgery and ECT as "treatment". Nobody would consider a medical doctor who "treats" Athletes Foot with ambutation a reasonable man. Why should we consider people who drug and mutilate people in the name of mental "treatment" as rational men? > Since you have evidently not reached the point of recognising your own > mental health condition this is likely to be a difficult idea for you to > grasp. I suggest your investigate your own condition, before you rush to judgement on other people. >>ARS-is-a-cult@myway.com (The only true Barbara Schwarz - other postings >>with my name are forgeries) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > I suggest your investigate your own condition, before you rush to judgement > on other people. Was Rondroide wie die 'Sharkys' mit solchen ebenso unqualifizierten wie grundfalschen Statements stets übersehen ist, dass ihre eigene betrügerische Pseudopsychotherapie 'Scientology' (samt 'Dianetik' und allen scientologischen Tarnorganisationen wie beispielsweise 'Narconon') nicht die geringste positive Wirkung zeigt, sondern nur schädliche Nebenwirkungen mit vernichtenden Ergebnissen erbringt. Und die Beweise dafür liefern sie gleich selbst :-) Peter  SignaturePeter Widmer <pwidmer@quicknet.ch> 3802 Waldegg <http://www.pewid.ch > Was Rondroide wie die 'Sharkys' mit solchen ebenso unqualifizierten wie > grundfalschen Statements stets ?bersehen ist, dass ihre eigene [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Nebenwirkungen mit vernichtenden Ergebnissen erbringt. Und die Beweise > daf?r liefern sie gleich selbst :-) Ich stimme mit Ihren Bemerkungen ?berein. Dieser Text ist eine automatisierte ?bersetzung, da ich Deutsch nicht spreche. Ich habe Sie nicht gewollt zu denken, da? ich Sie ignorierte! Hat es gearbeitet? Ihre Nachricht hat ziemlich gut ?bersetzt. :o) -- Midwinter >>Was Rondroide wie die 'Sharkys' mit solchen ebenso unqualifizierten wie >>grundfalschen Statements stets bersehen ist, dass ihre eigene [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Hat es gearbeitet? Ihre Nachricht hat ziemlich gut übersetzt. :o) Yes, OK :-) The problem is that 'Psychobarbie' and 'Sharky' dispose their crap always also in the German-language NG 'dsws'. Peter SignaturePeter Widmer <pwidmer@quicknet.ch> 3802 Waldegg <http://www.pewid.ch > Yes, OK :-) The problem is that 'Psychobarbie' and 'Sharky' dispose > their crap always also in the German-language NG 'dsws'. I see. Well, if nothing else this has taught me that online translation systems can work adequately, at least. I am afraid I have never had the knack of languages, and have always found learning others to be exceptionally difficult. -- Midwinter > > Was Rondroide wie die 'Sharkys' mit solchen ebenso unqualifizierten wie > > grundfalschen Statements stets ?bersehen ist, dass ihre eigene [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Hat es gearbeitet? Ihre Nachricht hat ziemlich gut ?bersetzt. :o) If you were in search for somebody who needs "treatment", looks like you got lucky and found the Swiss in direst need of it.:-) > If you were in search for somebody who needs "treatment", looks like > you got lucky and found the Swiss in direst need of it.:-) Am I in search of someone who needs treatment? -- Midwinter > > If you were in search for somebody who needs "treatment", looks like > > you got lucky and found the Swiss in direst need of it.:-) > > Am I in search of someone who needs treatment? You definetely gave the sincere appearence.:-)) > > ARS-is-a-cult@myway.com (The only true Barbara Schwarz - other postings > > with my name are forgeries) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > If somebody has a pain in his leg, he may even consider amputation. Isn't amputation necessary in severe cases such as gangreene or cancer? > The > point is, if "treatment" is not improving a condition but just exchanging > one effect with another "side"-effect, is this a rational treatment? How is this explanation different from auditing? > The problem with psychiatrists is, that they have no clue what causes mental > illnesses. As the mainstream of them operates on the materialistic basis, > that all mental conditions have more or less a physiological cause, they > resort to drugs, brain surgery and ECT as "treatment". Have you ever considered that psychiatrists sometimes simply talk with their patients, or even refer them to therapists without even prescribing drugs? How about psychiatrists that prescribe herbal remedies such as ST.John's Wort, which actually outsells Prozac amongst patients in Germany? > Nobody would consider a medical doctor who "treats" Athletes Foot with > ambutation a reasonable man. Why should we consider people who drug and > mutilate people in the name of mental "treatment" as rational men? Polemic silliness if I ever saw it. > > Since you have evidently not reached the point of recognising your own > > mental health condition this is likely to be a difficult idea for you to > > grasp. > > I suggest your investigate your own condition, before you rush to judgement > on other people. Oh, and a "rush to judgement on other people" would not include the catagorical condemnation of an entire branch of medicine, pschiatry, which includes thousands of doctors? Try speaking for yourself. -pg "Peter Golembe" <petergolembe@web.de> wrote in message > > > Not necessarily. Many patients who have reached the stage where they > > > recognise their illness are willing to take the risk of inducing side- > > > effects if there is a possibility that the drug will ease their illness. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Isn't amputation necessary in severe cases such as gangreene or > cancer? That could be possible, but that was not the point. > > The > > point is, if "treatment" is not improving a condition but just exchanging > > one effect with another "side"-effect, is this a rational treatment? > > How is this explanation different from auditing? Very, Very different. You can read up here: www.scientology.org search for auditing. > > The problem with psychiatrists is, that they have no clue what causes mental > > illnesses. As the mainstream of them operates on the materialistic basis, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > their patients, or even refer them to therapists without even > prescribing drugs? The fact that the official "science" of psychiatrie is a hoax, does not exclude a few smart practitioners that distance themself from destructive mainstream psychiatrie and search for other options. That does not change the mainstream psychiatrie though. > How about psychiatrists that prescribe herbal remedies such as > ST.John's Wort, which actually outsells Prozac amongst patients in > Germany? Mainstream psychiatrie pushes Prozac, Ritalin and other mind altering drugs that destroy human beings to the degree it should be criminalized. > > Nobody would consider a medical doctor who "treats" Athletes Foot with > > ambutation a reasonable man. Why should we consider people who drug and > > mutilate people in the name of mental "treatment" as rational men? > > Polemic silliness if I ever saw it. This is happening with people who run a business or some sort of life and have some kind of mental problem. They get into psychiatrie and get ECT. They die or are completely incapable to perform in their former capacity. Such a persons mental problem is gone, but his life and abilities as well. If they survive they need care for the rest of the life. You should research the fate of many ECT patients and you will find more "polemic silliness" than you would ever believe would have existed. > > > Since you have evidently not reached the point of recognising your own > > > mental health condition this is likely to be a difficult idea for you to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > catagorical condemnation of an entire branch of medicine, pschiatry, > which includes thousands of doctors? This judgement is based on facts. > If somebody has a pain in his leg, he may even consider amputation. > The point is, if "treatment" is not improving a condition but just > exchanging one effect with another "side"-effect, is this a rational > treatment? In some cases yes, in other cases no. It would depend what the expected 'replacement' condition might be. You of course go to extremes in your example - replacing a pain in the leg with no leg at all. But if a person's illness is causing them considerable difficulty or distress, they might well weigh up the possible alternatives and accept that treatment is the best option. If not, then that is their choice. Where a person is subjected to involuntary treatment or detention - what we Brits refer to as being 'sectioned' - then it is usually because those 'least ignorant' of the subject have assessed them as being a threat either to themselves or others. In such cases, the patient is usually not in a condition to make a rational decision for themselves. But it may surprise you how ill someone has to be before they are considered suitable for sectioning in Britain. I know of some remarkable cases of patients suffering acute diagnosed mental conditions and living alone in the community. Their circumstances make life extremely difficult for them and their neighbours or family, and yet they are not assessed as being ill enough to be sectioned. A section is not a decision taken lightly, but only as a last resort. > The problem with psychiatrists is, that they have no clue what causes > mental illnesses. But of course not. How can they? The brain is an extremely complicated device, and we can expect that there are many years of research ahead before it is properly understood. Therefore treatments have to be made largely on the balance of probabilities. What appears to work is used until it is improved upon or until problems are identified which require its use to be discontinued. > As the mainstream of them operates on the > materialistic basis, that all mental conditions have more or less a > physiological cause, they resort to drugs, brain surgery and ECT as > "treatment". Many treatments are not in fact designed to 'cure' a condition - simply to relieve it. For example, many drugs used in the treatment of depression do not cure the condition itself. They simply suppress its symptoms, allowing a more rational existence, until such time as the patient is able (consciously or otherwise) to resolve whatever is causing the problem. And it may be even then that this 'cure' is not permanent. A depressive is in that sense like an alcoholic - always 'on the wagon', 'one day at a time'. Whilst psychiatry accepts the idea of 'induced' conditions - such as post- traumatic stress disorder, and so on - it does not rule out those disorders which might be attributed to the 'hardware'. Where Dianetics falls down is that it assumes that all problems are software problems and uses one very narrow method of treatment for everything, the only guarantee being that the 'Church' will make money out of the patient. > Nobody would consider a medical doctor who "treats" Athletes Foot with > ambutation a reasonable man. Indeed not. And how many do? Likewise, you will find few psychiatrists who would act in a comparable manner. What is done is usually done because it is necessary. As an aside, if a doctor diagnosed pains in the legs as some sort of life- threatening condition and ordered the leg amputated, and then later discovered it was in fact some minor complaint which could have been cured in some easier way, is that doctor an unreasonable man? He is wrong, certainly, and there would be a strong case for striking him off - but is he unreasonable, given that he acted in good faith based on his flawed diagnosis? This situation can occur in psychiatry as well. It might be said that it is more prone to occur since the field of work is not so "nuts-and-bolts". Medical treatment cannot always be expected to be pleasant, and it is ALWAYS in the hands of humans. Humans are flawed, and prone to error. It is as simple as that. If you want treatment, you will probably find it assists you - but it might not. If you reject it, then you make the choice to live with your symptoms. If you are found lying on the ground turning blue then the chances are you will receive treatment whilst you are not in a condition to request it or consent to it. Involuntary psychological treatment can be viewed in the same way. > Why should we consider people who drug > and mutilate people in the name of mental "treatment" as rational men? Because they have been extensively trained in tried-and-tested techniques, and they apply them to the best of their ability with the intention of making life better for sufferers. I would call that fairly reasonable. If you expect perfection then I am afraid you have come to the wrong species. >> Since you have evidently not reached the point of recognising your >> own mental health condition this is likely to be a difficult idea for >> you to grasp. > > I suggest your investigate your own condition, before you rush to > judgement on other people. Very well. You may assist me by diagnosing my condition. I will then seek the appropriate treatment. -- Midwinter > In some cases yes, in other cases no. It would depend what the expected > 'replacement' condition might be. You of course go to extremes in your > example - replacing a pain in the leg with no leg at all. In this case, the 'treatment' is replacing unwanted or 'deviant' behaviors with brain damage and other physical problems. > In this case, the 'treatment' is replacing unwanted or 'deviant' > behaviors with brain damage and other physical problems. In which case? I was not aware that a specific case had been cited. -- Midwinter > In which case? I was not aware that a specific case had been cited. I was referring to the generalized 'case' of these substances being administered, not to their being given to a specific individual. In future, when reading a message always remember to read the conTEXT as well as the conTENT. That shoud save you from further humiliation down the road. >> In which case? I was not aware that a specific case had been cited. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > as well as the conTENT. That shoud save you from further humiliation > down the road. No, sorry. Sharky's question was based on Barbara's original post. In summary, Sharky asked whether it would be considered reasonable to treat a condition by replacing one effect with another, but not improving the original condition. My answer was that this would depend on the circumstances, and that the 'replacement' condition might be preferable to the original one in some way which makes it favourable. For example, an acute depressive with suicidal tendencies might be treated with a drug which suppresses emotional response. Not an ideal solution, and not a cure, but perhaps preferable at that particular time to the risk of remaining untreated. However, the point is that no specific case or set of circumstances was cited. You then announced that "in this case, the 'treatment' is replacing unwanted or 'deviant' behaviors with brain damage and other physical problems". However, that is not accurate. Since no case had been cited in my post, or in Sharky's, or in Barbara's, your statement was based on your own views towards psychiatry and not on any objective evaluation of a particular case. In essence, it is you who has not taken note of context or content. Whether or not you need to feel humiliated, though, I will leave to you. I do not require it of you. -- Midwinter > >> In which case? I was not aware that a specific case had been cited. > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > However, the point is that no specific case or set of circumstances was > cited. Next you prescribe for depression a nice whack over the head with a 2x4 . The way you argue, you mast have some valid experienced with that treatment.:-) > Next you prescribe for depression a nice whack over the head with a 2x4 . > > The way you argue, you mast have some valid experienced with that > treatment.:-) I will leave that to you to decide. -- Midwinter > > If somebody has a pain in his leg, he may even consider amputation. > > The point is, if "treatment" is not improving a condition but just [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 'replacement' condition might be. You of course go to extremes in your > example - replacing a pain in the leg with no leg at all. And that is the point. > But if a person's illness is causing them considerable difficulty or > distress, they might well weigh up the possible alternatives and accept > that treatment is the best option. If not, then that is their choice. I believe in selfdetermined decision, so if somebody wants to harm himself you argue he should be allowed to do so. But that is besides the point. The point destructive "treatment" is destructive "treatment" even as a last resort. I do not believe medicine or schools of it should be used to destroy or mutilate people. > Where a person is subjected to involuntary treatment or detention - what > we Brits refer to as being 'sectioned' - then it is usually because those [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > enough to be sectioned. A section is not a decision taken lightly, but > only as a last resort. The Point though is, that a "science" with no clue about the human mind tries to solve the problems of the human mind. Since they are utterly incompetent on the subject their last resort is drugging and mutilating people to the thousands. This could be considered their insanity and they should be sectioned to protect the general population. > > The problem with psychiatrists is, that they have no clue what causes > > mental illnesses. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > until it is improved upon or until problems are identified which require > its use to be discontinued. ECT shuld have been discontinued a long time ago. So what is wrong with this picture? > > As the mainstream of them operates on the > > materialistic basis, that all mental conditions have more or less a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > is in that sense like an alcoholic - always 'on the wagon', 'one day at a > time'. You are right to my point. These guys do not have the slightest idea about the human mind and in their helplesless and desperation put people on dangerous drugs and destructive "treatmenst". These folks should go and learn a trade or do somthing else they can actually do, rather destroying people. The public knows this and that the "help" of psychiatrists is usually no help at all. That is the reason why psychiatrists ussually can not charge the public and depend on public subsidiaries to come up with a living. > Whilst psychiatry accepts the idea of 'induced' conditions - such as post- > traumatic stress disorder, and so on - it does not rule out those > disorders which might be attributed to the 'hardware'. Where Dianetics > falls down is that it assumes that all problems are software problems and > uses one very narrow method of treatment for everything, the only > guarantee being that the 'Church' will make money out of the patient. That is incorrect. If you have a persistent physical condition you go to a medical doctor to get that condition treated. A broken leg needs a cast, but what psychiatrists kind are of doing is break a leg to treat a "software problem." Nobody would have an incomptetent mechanic with no clue about how the car works do any repairs on his car. Watching him randomly hitting the engine with an ax and putting sugar in the tank. But this is what you are justifying above and what is happening in the field of "mental health". > > Nobody would consider a medical doctor who "treats" Athletes Foot with > > ambutation a reasonable man. > > Indeed not. And how many do? Likewise, you will find few psychiatrists > who would act in a comparable manner. What is done is usually done > because it is necessary. I disagree, it is never neccessary to harm or destroy a person. > As an aside, if a doctor diagnosed pains in the legs as some sort of life- > threatening condition and ordered the leg amputated, and then later [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > he unreasonable, given that he acted in good faith based on his flawed > diagnosis? This doctor would be called incompetent and should loose his license if he commits such grave mistakes. In Psychiatrie such grave "mistakes" are standard procedure and should not be tolerated by society. > This situation can occur in psychiatry as well. It might be said that it > is more prone to occur since the field of work is not so "nuts-and-bolts". [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > are not in a condition to request it or consent to it. Involuntary > psychological treatment can be viewed in the same way. I disagree, if somdebody assumes a role in any field or profession on expects the person to be competent and capable. You justify the blunt incompetence of Psychiatrie all the way. That is not reasonable. An engineer whose bridges collapse should not be allowed to call himself an engineer. The same as a medical profession that destroys and harms human beings should not be allowed to practice in the name of "medicine". > > Why should we consider people who drug > > and mutilate people in the name of mental "treatment" as rational men? > > Because they have been extensively trained in tried-and-tested techniques, Well, Saddams henchmen were also extensively trained in tried-and-tested techniques. > and they apply them to the best of their ability with the intention of > making life better for sufferers. I would call that fairly reasonable. > If you expect perfection then I am afraid you have come to the wrong > species. I do expect competence, not perfection, don't you from your car repair man? > >> Since you have evidently not reached the point of recognising your > >> own mental health condition this is likely to be a difficult idea for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Very well. You may assist me by diagnosing my condition. I will then > seek the appropriate treatment. I am not really interested in any conditions you might have, but I did found your comments about Barbara inappropriate. > Antipsychotic drugs may also result in many other debilitating, albeit > nonfatal, side effects. Courts have previously recognized that > antipsychotic drugs can cause tardive dyskinesia, "a neurological > disorder", teversible in some cases, that is characterized by > involuntaIy, uncontrollable movements of various muscles, especially > around the face." Why don't you tell us why your doctor has had you on chlorpromazine & Haldol for the last 3 years, Barbara? Interesting things in an e-mail I got about you yesterday... Out with it...why are you taking chlorpromazine & Haldol? > Antipsychotic drugs may also result in many other debilitating, albeit > nonfatal, side effects. Dear Barbara! I am afraid you got things a little bit mixed up ( possibly a reflection of your state of mind) In your case I would recommend a small dose of antipsychotics - preferably haloperidol 1-2 mg every evening before bedtime. In 2 - 4 weeks you probably would be rid of your delusions. At least 2 - 3 years treatment is recommended , and if sucessful ( no delusions, no paranoic symtoms) you could try a slow withdrawel from medication - 0,5 mg reduction every third week. If delusional and paranoic symtoms reappear - back on medication. Of course you will need someone to help you with your symtomchecking , because you can not trust your self to be objective in this matter. Orkeltatte (The real thing) > > Antipsychotic drugs may also result in many other debilitating, albeit > > nonfatal, side effects. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > you with your symtomchecking , because you can not trust your self to > be objective in this matter. Schwarz is already taking Halidol and another anti-psychotic med for schizophrenia. She's been on Halidol for 3 years I'be been told by someone in Utah that knows her well. >> > Antipsychotic drugs may also result in many other debilitating, albeit >> > nonfatal, side effects. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >schizophrenia. She's been on Halidol for 3 years I'be been told by >someone in Utah that knows her well. You are lying as usual, Garry. And you can't even *type* your lies correctly. It is just another of your "I contacted that person" lies. Tilman SignatureTilman Hausherr [SP5.55] Entheta * Enturbulation * Entertainment tilman@berlin.snafu.de http://home.snafu.de/tilman/scientology_ger.html Fotos aus Leipzig: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/leipzig2003/ > >> > Antipsychotic drugs may also result in many other debilitating, albeit > >> > nonfatal, side effects. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > You are lying as usual, Garry. And you can't even *type* your lies > correctly. It is just another of your "I contacted that person" lies. <yawn> NaziBoy spews his contempt again. Lying...hmmm...you mean like your deliberate lies when you posted this? Eat crow, loser. From: Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) Subject: Re: Post finally the name of the postal inspector, Garry Scarff, you fraud! Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Date: 2003-08-13 10:35:51 PST Garry Scarff has no job, no skills, no money, no looks, but all sort of celebrities live near him and like him :-) > Tilman > > > Antipsychotic drugs may also result in many other debilitating, albeit > > > nonfatal, side effects. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > schizophrenia. She's been on Halidol for 3 years I'be been told by > someone in Utah that knows her well. Would I post about dangers of anti-psychotic drugs, if I would be so stupid to take them? Garry Scarff is a notorious liar and a criminal. And what is Halidol? Isn't that called Haldol? I never took psychiatric drugs, however the German psychs injected something in my kidneys, which made them hard and painful. However I felt no change in my mind, except one time and that was scary. As far as the kidneys and the deprivation of my liberty is concerned, thanks a lot you butchers. As anti-psychotic drugs are so dangerous, as described below, it is to assume that anti-depressants and Ritalin, are similarly dangerous as they also mess around with the mind. The dangers inherent in the administration of antipsychotic drugs highlights the importance of the individual's interest in avoiding forced treatment. These medications can produce debilitating, life- altering and even fatal side-effects. Thus, they bear no resemblance to much less intrusive medical interventions which courts have detennined implicate only a minimal liberty interest. See Schmerber, 384 U.S. at 771 (pin prick of finger for a blood test). Indeed, the risks and extent of that inherent in the administration of antipsychotic drugs to pretrial detainees are at least as serious as those which the Court has previously held to outweigh the government's interests. See Winston v. Lee, 470 U.S. 753,755- 56 (1985) (surgical removal of a bullet); Rochin v. California, 342 U.S. 165,172 (1952) (forced insertion of a stomach pump). The use of chemical agents to alter one's mind and to potentially affect one's muscular and other bodily functions is at least as invasive as the mechanical invasion of surgery. The pre-trial detainee's interest in avoiding the administration of these dangerous and potentially life-threatening drugs should not be infringed unless the government's action is the least restrictive means by which it may accomplish a compelling interest. Barbara Schwarz (the only real one) P.S. Postings with e-mail address Barbara_Schwarz@emailaccount.com and identities "Barbara_Schwarz", "the real Barbara Schwarz de Rothschild" and "Truth Speaker 2" are not done by me. Those are forgeries of criminal, Aids infected, gay lunatic Garry Lynn Scarff who is a fanatical Dave Touretzky defender. Scarff persecutes me from thread to thread often using my name as identity for those crimes (!) and verbally assaults me, threatens me, harasses me, sexually harasses me, tries to intimidate me, libels, insults and lies about me. He also lied that he spoke to a roomate of mine in the Utah mental health hospital. I never was in that hospital, but he probably escaped from one. Scarff is active member of the gay WeHo "church", that according to Scarff applaudes Scarffs lawless behavior against me. An ex-WeHo member wrote me that this "church" sanctions and promotes dishonorable behavior and that he and his friends were raped and drugged by one of their active members, and that one of their active members murdered others under the guise of "drug overdose". The ex-WeHo wrote that the gay men make sexual innuendo during sermon and "church" leadership doesn't see what's wrong with that. Frederic Rice, another fierce David Touretzky defender, posted also with the stolen identity de Rothschild. He is as little a de Rothschild as a dirty slimy and greasy punch bag is an impressive man. He threatened governmental officials over the Internet, wants to celebrate when both President Bush's are dead and has tips on his website on how to kill bikers. His brother David Rice, posts with "Dr." or "Reverend" Desertphile and also with the stolen identity de Rothschild. He suggested to kill members of the FBI. (Go to www.religiousfreedom.watch.org, the extremist pages on David Touretzky, page 9, his connections and click on the PDF file.) Dave Rice also posted a long time with the identity "Prozac filled gay terrorist psycho", which tells a lot about him. Barbara Graham Warr, self-proclaimed "caplain" of the A.R.S. newsgroup and snakepit, another David Touretzky promoter, is a DUI offender and pleaded guilty to possession and manufacturing of prohibited weapon under California penal code. She congratulated the WeHo "congregation" accepting Scarff's criminal behaviors against me. However, she posted before that there is no God. She also posts with stolen identity de Rothschild. - For more, click on the below links. ---------------------------------------------- Linda Anderson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/andersenl1.html Gerald Armstrong http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/armstrong1.html Jim Beebe http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/beebej1.html Graham Berry http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/berry.html David Bird http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/birdd1.html Tory Christman http://religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/christmant4.html Ursula Caberta http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/caberta.html Ida Camburn http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/camburn1.html Joe Cisar http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/cisarj1.html Robert Clark http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/clark1.html Elizabeth Ann Cox http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/coxea1.html Mark Dallara http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/dallara1.html Alexander Dvorkin http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/dvorkin1.html Valerie Emanuel http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/emanuelv1.html Steven Fishman http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/fishman1.html Vickki Ford Cook http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/fordv1.html Phil Georgi http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/jacobsen6.html Scott Goehring http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/goehrings1.html Roger Gonnet http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/gonnet1.html Barbara Graham http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/graham1.html Gregg Hagglund http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/hagglund1.html Steve Hassan http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/hassan1.html Tilman Hausherr http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/hauser1.html Andreas Heldal-Lund http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lund1.html Keith Henson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/henson1.html Deana Holmes http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/holmes1.html Jeff Jacobsen http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/jacobsen1.html Patrick Jost http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/jost1.html Charlotte Kates http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/katesc1.html Rod Keller http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/keller1.html Steven Kent http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/kent1.html Arnie Lerma http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lerma1.html Joe Lynn http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lynn1.html Ted Mayett http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/mayett1.html Frank Oliver http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/oliver.html Kady O'Malley http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/omalley1.html Zenon Panoussis http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/panoussis1.html Ted Patrick http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/patrick1.html Michael Pattinson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/pattinsonm1.html Robert Peterson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/peterson1.html Bruce/Kathleen Pettycrew http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/pettycrew.html Jesse Prince http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/prince1.html Roland Rashleigh-Berry http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/rashleighb1.html David Rice http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/riced.html Fred Rice http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/ricef.html Rick Ross http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/rossr1.html Karin Spaink http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/spaink1.html David Touretzky http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/touretzky1.html Alan Walter http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/walter1.html Grady Ward http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/ward.html Johan Wevers http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/weversj1.html Hana/Jerry Whitfield http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/whitfield1.html Larry Wollersheim http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/wollersheim1.html Sten-Arne Zerpe http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/zerpesa1.html -- http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org -- > > > > Antipsychotic drugs may also result in many other debilitating, albeit > > > > nonfatal, side effects. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Would I post about dangers of anti-psychotic drugs, if I would be so > stupid to take them? The same reason you post about ear implants, secret submarines, Nazi secret service agents, evil mindcontrollers, your birthplace in a non-existent city in Utah, your imaginary wedding to an imaginary husband currently incarcerated in an imaginary prison on imaginary charges against you, your imaginary blood relationship to the Eisenhower and Hubbard families....do I need to go on Ms. Psychotic of the Hour?? Garry Scarff is a notorious liar and a criminal. LOL. This coming from a notorious liar and psychotic clown. Sow your wild oats, PsychoBitch...it doesn't change the facts that you are a diagnosed psychotic taking anti-psychotic medications after being committed in a state mental health facility( why not explain to us why you were so determined to access your mental health records from the Utah state system through the FOIA and why Utah refused to release those records to you?? Hmmm?) > And what is Halidol? Isn't that called Haldol? The most common name is Haldol, but other names for it is Brotopon, Depidol, Dozic, Duroperidol, Einalon, Eukystol, Halidol, Halojust, Halomed, Halopidol, Halosten, Haricon, Linton, Mixidol, Novoperidol, Pacedol, Peluces, Pericate, Perida, Peridol, Peridor, Selzyme, Serenance, and Serenase. > I never took psychiatric drugs, however the German psychs injected > something in my kidneys, which made them hard and painful. However I > felt no change in my mind, except one time and that was scary. As far > as the kidneys and the deprivation of my liberty is concerned, thanks > a lot you butchers. Pure delusional and imagination. You're incapable of deciphering fantasy from fact. > As anti-psychotic drugs are so dangerous, as described below, it is to > assume that anti-depressants and Ritalin, are similarly dangerous as > they also mess around with the mind. Then why are you taking Halidol? Why won't you answer the question? What are you trying to hide? Why were you involuntary committed to a Utah state mental facility? snip of PsychoSkank's rants...... > > > > Antipsychotic drugs may also result in many other debilitating, albeit > > > > nonfatal, side effects. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Would I post about dangers of anti-psychotic drugs, if I would be so > stupid to take them? Yes. You will say anything to cover up your tracks, delusuional cow. Garry Scarff is a notorious liar and a criminal. <yawn> Pot kettle black, skank. > And what is Halidol? Isn't that called Haldol? Both are valid names for the same drug that you have been taking on a regular basis for over 3 years. > I never took psychiatric drugs, Liar. however the German psychs injected > something in my kidneys, which made them hard and painful. However I > felt no change in my mind, except one time and that was scary. As far > as the kidneys and the deprivation of my liberty is concerned, thanks > a lot you butchers. Liar. Figments of your psychotic delusions. snip of Schwarz spewing crap.... > > > > Antipsychotic drugs may also result in many other debilitating, albeit > > > > nonfatal, side effects. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Would I post about dangers of anti-psychotic drugs, if I would be so > stupid to take them? The same reason you post about ear implants, secret submarines, Nazi secret service agents, evil mindcontrollers, your birthplace in a non-existent city in Utah, your imaginary wedding to an imaginary husband currently incarcerated in an imaginary prison on imaginary charges against you, your imaginary blood relationship to the Eisenhower and Hubbard families....do I need to go on Ms. Psychotic of the Hour?? Garry Scarff is a notorious liar and a criminal. LOL. This coming from a notorious liar and psychotic clown. Sow your wild oats, PsychoBitch...it doesn't change the facts that you are a diagnosed psychotic taking anti-psychotic medications after being committed in a state mental health facility( why not explain to us why you were so determined to access your mental health records from the Utah state system through the FOIA and why Utah refused to release those records to you?? Hmmm?) > And what is Halidol? Isn't that called Haldol? The most common name is Haldol, but other names for it is Brotopon, Depidol, Dozic, Duroperidol, Einalon, Eukystol, Halidol, Halojust, Halomed, Halopidol, Halosten, Haricon, Linton, Mixidol, Novoperidol, Pacedol, Peluces, Pericate, Perida, Peridol, Peridor, Selzyme, Serenance, and Serenase. > I never took psychiatric drugs, however the German psychs injected > something in my kidneys, which made them hard and painful. However I > felt no change in my mind, except one time and that was scary. As far > as the kidneys and the deprivation of my liberty is concerned, thanks > a lot you butchers. Pure delusional and imagination. You're incapable of deciphering fantasy from fact. > As anti-psychotic drugs are so dangerous, as described below, it is to > assume that anti-depressants and Ritalin, are similarly dangerous as > they also mess around with the mind. Then why are you taking Halidol? Why won't you answer the question? What are you trying to hide? Why were you involuntary committed to a Utah state mental facility? snip of PsychoSkank's rants...... > > > > > Antipsychotic drugs may also result in many other debilitating, albeit > > > > > nonfatal, side effects. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Utah state system through the FOIA and why Utah refused to release > those records to you?? Hmmm?) Somebody rotten had the idea to get psychiatrists into my life. Some of their representatives came to my door, and I talked with them. I asked who referred them to me. They did not tell. I appealed. I had an administrative hearing before many state governmental officials. The majority decided in my favor to reveal the name of the "referent" to me. Utah Department of Human Services did not agree, because if I get the information, others would receive it too. Two cases resulted out of that. One filed by me, the other one by the Department of Human Services. At issue is only the name of the person, not any mental illness of mine, as I have none. My arguments is that it is unconstitutional to deny the knowledge of the name of a "referent" to psychiatry, as anybody has the right to know her accusor and the secrecy rule is being abused. Both cases are still pending before the Utah courts. The Deseret News article was about matter. I posted that article. > > And what is Halidol? Isn't that called Haldol? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Pacedol, Peluces, Pericate, Perida, Peridol, Peridor, Selzyme, > Serenance, and Serenase. And Garry Scarff seems to swallow all of those, otherwise he would not be that agressive. > > I never took psychiatric drugs, however the German psychs injected > > something in my kidneys, which made them hard and painful. However I [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > > snip of PsychoSkank's rants...... I never saw a Utah mental facility from the inside, but people told me that psychs mess around in these too. Barbara Schwarz (the only real one) P.S. Postings with e-mail address Barbara_Schwarz@emailaccount.com and identities "Barbara_Schwarz", "the real Barbara Schwarz de Rothschild" and "Truth Speaker 2" are not done by me. Those are forgeries of criminal, Aids infected, gay lunatic Garry Lynn Scarff who is a fanatical Dave Touretzky defender. Scarff persecutes me from thread to thread often using my name as identity for those crimes (!) and verbally assaults me, threatens me, harasses me, sexually harasses me, tries to intimidate me, libels, insults and lies about me. He also lied that he spoke to a roomate of mine in the Utah mental health hospital. I never was in that hospital, but he probably escaped from one. Scarff is active member of the gay WeHo "church", that according to Scarff applaudes Scarffs lawless behavior against me. An ex-WeHo member wrote me that this "church" sanctions and promotes dishonorable behavior and that he and his friends were raped and drugged by one of their active members, and that one of their active members murdered others under the guise of "drug overdose". The ex-WeHo wrote that the gay men make sexual innuendo during sermon and "church" leadership doesn't see what's wrong with that. Frederic Rice, another fierce David Touretzky defender, posted also with the stolen identity de Rothschild. He is as little a de Rothschild as a dirty slimy and greasy punch bag is an impressive man. He threatened governmental officials over the Internet, wants to celebrate when both President Bush's are dead and has tips on his website on how to kill bikers. His brother David Rice, posts with "Dr." or "Reverend" Desertphile and also with the stolen identity de Rothschild. He suggested to kill members of the FBI. (Go to www.religiousfreedom.watch.org, the extremist pages on David Touretzky, page 9, his connections and click on the PDF file.) Dave Rice also posted a long time with the identity "Prozac filled gay terrorist psycho", which tells a lot about him. Barbara Graham Warr, self-proclaimed "caplain" of the A.R.S. newsgroup and snakepit, another David Touretzky promoter, is a DUI offender and pleaded guilty to possession and manufacturing of prohibited weapon under California penal code. She congratulated the WeHo "congregation" accepting Scarff's criminal behaviors against me. However, she posted before that there is no God. She also posts with stolen identity de Rothschild. - For more, click on the below links. ---------------------------------------------- Linda Anderson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/andersenl1.html Gerald Armstrong http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/armstrong1.html Jim Beebe http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/beebej1.html Graham Berry http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/berry.html David Bird http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/birdd1.html Tory Christman http://religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/christmant4.html Ursula Caberta http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/caberta.html Ida Camburn http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/camburn1.html Joe Cisar http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/cisarj1.html Robert Clark http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/clark1.html Elizabeth Ann Cox http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/coxea1.html Mark Dallara http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/dallara1.html Alexander Dvorkin http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/dvorkin1.html Valerie Emanuel http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/emanuelv1.html Steven Fishman http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/fishman1.html Vickki Ford Cook http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/fordv1.html Phil Georgi http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/jacobsen6.html Scott Goehring http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/goehrings1.html Roger Gonnet http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/gonnet1.html Barbara Graham http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/graham1.html Gregg Hagglund http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/hagglund1.html Steve Hassan http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/hassan1.html Tilman Hausherr http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/hauser1.html Andreas Heldal-Lund http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lund1.html Keith Henson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/henson1.html Deana Holmes http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/holmes1.html Jeff Jacobsen http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/jacobsen1.html Patrick Jost http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/jost1.html Charlotte Kates http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/katesc1.html Rod Keller http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/keller1.html Steven Kent http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/kent1.html Arnie Lerma http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lerma1.html Joe Lynn http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lynn1.html Ted Mayett http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/mayett1.html Frank Oliver http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/oliver.html Kady O'Malley http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/omalley1.html Zenon Panoussis http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/panoussis1.html Ted Patrick http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/patrick1.html Michael Pattinson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/pattinsonm1.html Robert Peterson http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/peterson1.html Bruce/Kathleen Pettycrew http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/pettycrew.html Jesse Prince http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/prince1.html Roland Rashleigh-Berry http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/rashleighb1.html David Rice http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/riced.html Fred Rice http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/ricef.html Rick Ross http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/rossr1.html Karin Spaink http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/spaink1.html David Touretzky http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/touretzky1.html Alan Walter http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/walter1.html Grady Ward http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/ward.html Johan Wevers http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/weversj1.html Hana/Jerry Whitfield http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/whitfield1.html Larry Wollersheim http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/wollersheim1.html Sten-Arne Zerpe http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/zerpesa1.html -- http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org -- |
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