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Medical Forum / General / General / January 2004

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link between skull bones, stonethrowing and bipedalism; Orrorin

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Archimedes Plutonium - 22 Jan 2004 05:30 GMT
Tonight I saw again a repeat of the TV show of Orrorin with
anthropologists Pickford and Senut who have discovered 6 million year
old Orrorin who is bipedal as proved by the bone anatomy of the groove
region of the femur.

What I am trying to prove is that Orrorin not only was biped but also
a stonethrower and that stonethrowing created bipedalism. So I need a
signature of the fossil bones that can definetively prove that the
individual was a stonethrower. I poise the question of what bone
structure proves the individual had the innate behaviour of
stonethrowing.

Senut found a humerus of Orrorin and fingers. The fingers were curved
and the humerus was splined, both of which helped Orrorin to live in
trees. But curved fingers and splined humerus does not rule out that
Orrorin was or was not a Stonethrower.

It was mentioned in this repeat program that balance and control of
body via balance was crucial in going from 4-ped to 2-ped. Things like
this make it worthwhile for me to see repeat of this show in that
snippets may lead to new avenues of insight that was previously
overlooked. So perhaps a signature of stonethrowing is not only to be
found and proved in the arm and finger bones but also perhaps in the
bones that give balance to the body. I am not only talking about the
inner ear bones which would rarely survive fossil preservation but
perhaps skull structures may provide key to whether the individual
could stonethrow. Do eyebrow ridges which Neanderthal had, do they
help or hinder balance when throwing?

The inner ear is the main center for balance, but is not the shape of
the skull also modified as stonethrowing increases? Perhaps the shape
of the bones near the ear have to be modified in order to Stonethrow
overarm.

So, has anyone researched the bones crucial or peripherial to
Stonethrowing between living apes and humans? A chimp can throw
underarm, but does the chimp have bone differences of balance that is
distinct from that of human bones of balance. Is the skull of a human
shaped because of balance in order to throw stones proficiently and
which chimps and other apes do not have that bone advancement.

In the past years I have looked for the bone signature of
Stonethrowing in the arm bones, the finger bones and even the backbone
which becomes a lever and fulcrum in Stonethrowing. But now I am
wondering if Stonethrowing signature also exists for the Balance
System of the body because it not only requires alot of balance when
going from 4-ped to 2-ped for which the Stonethrowing theory says that
Stonethrowing created 2-ped but that would require a transition in the
Balance control system of the body.

Stonethrowing ---> creates bipedalism

But during that creation the Balance system of the body would alter to
accomodate better throwing. And I feel that some bodily bones would
change to enable Stonethrowing.

Archimedes Plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
Archimedes Plutonium - 24 Jan 2004 06:58 GMT
> Tonight I saw again a repeat of the TV show of Orrorin with
> anthropologists Pickford and Senut who have discovered 6 million year
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
> whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
> of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

sci.anthropology.paleo vice sci.bio.paleontology
Nick Maclaren - 24 Jan 2004 11:50 GMT
>> What I am trying to prove is that Orrorin not only was biped but also
>> a stonethrower and that stonethrowing created bipedalism. So I need a
>> signature of the fossil bones that can definetively prove that the
>> individual was a stonethrower. I poise the question of what bone
>> structure proves the individual had the innate behaviour of
>> stonethrowing.

That is an old theory but, so far, nobody has been able to find enough
evidence to prove or disprove it.

>> The inner ear is the main center for balance, but is not the shape of
>> the skull also modified as stonethrowing increases? Perhaps the shape
>> of the bones near the ear have to be modified in order to Stonethrow
>> overarm.

Not really.  And even balance isn't critical - some people with no
middle-ear balance can throw perfectly well.  It is primarily the
shoulder joint that is the issue.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Archimedes Plutonium - 24 Jan 2004 21:05 GMT
> >> What I am trying to prove is that Orrorin not only was biped but also
> >> a stonethrower and that stonethrowing created bipedalism. So I need a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> That is an old theory but, so far, nobody has been able to find enough
> evidence to prove or disprove it.

This is a new theory which dates to only about 2 years old! The idea
of Stonethrowing dates back hundreds of years in that scientists
obviously realized that hominid species threw stones. But only in the
past 2 years has anyone said that Stonethrowing created bipedalism. It
was the Savannah theory that was tauted as creating bipedalism and
then along came Pickford with Orrorin and damaged the Savannah theory.
But Pickford installed his own brand of some hybrid theory to account
for bipedalism using the example of orangutan. Pickford did not chose
the obvious-- stonethrowing. If he had seen that stonethrowing could
easily explain bipedalism then he would have searched for a signature
in the upper arm. He would have then looked throughout the fossil bone
record for a signature. He did not and instead focused on his hybrid
theory.

Stonethrowing idea has been around for hundreds of years. But the
Stonethrowing theory that I discovered some 2 years ago makes many
specific claims:
(1) stonethrowing created bipedalism in human species
(2) stonethrowing caused the extinction of all other hominid species
except the most proficient of the stonethrowers
(3) the body anatomy of a stonethrower is genetically different from
nonstonethrowers and less proficient stonethrowers. And the bones have
unique signatures for throwing ability. The Neanderthals were a
different species than Homosapiens because the Neanderthal bones
phenotype and genotype were inferior stonethrowing abilities.
(4) a careful examination of the bone anatomy of any fossil should
determine whether that species was a stonethrower and how proficient
of a stonethrower.
(5) given any alien planet in the universe that has apelike creatures
but not intelligent life, then when those apelike creatures begin to
throw stones overarm will directly lead to an intelligent species much
like humanity on Earth. So the difference between wild animals and
intelligent life is only the difference between stonethrowing.

> >> The inner ear is the main center for balance, but is not the shape of
> >> the skull also modified as stonethrowing increases? Perhaps the shape
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Regards,
> Nick Maclaren.

I agree that the crucial bone area that has to change from apelike
bone anatomy in order to stonethrow overarm is the shoulder, and
elbow. Nick apparently has ignored the elbow. A physicist researching
the shoulder and elbow as to where the power in throwing would not
leave out the elbow. Although there is a difference between in-close
fighting where you lift up a huge and heavy rock to pommel a nearby
foe or prey or predator compared to long distance overarm
stonethrowing.

Instead of grooves in the femur for bipedalism as unique signatures,
for Stonethrowing it would be the opposite of crests for the muscles.

But I would not discount the balance system of the body. In that brow
ridges for Neanderthal would make Neanderthal throwing abilities less
than that of non-brow-ridge human like species. So that given hundreds
of thousands of years of competition between a Neanderthal brow ridged
and a CroMagnon no brow ridge then CroMagnon would eventually extinct
the Neanderthal with these rock and stonethrowing skirmishes and
competition for food. The brow ridge lessens the ability to throw
rocks and stones because of balance. So I would not discount the
balance system. And I would say the difference in the face and skull
bones of humanity were shaped mostly from the need to make
stonethrowing due to balance as proficient as possible. IF we compare
the shape of skulls of any apes with that of humans, then humans have
that sleek skull shape because of balance in stonethrowing. Even the
eye sockets were sculpted out of the pressure to stonethrow more
proficiently.

Archimedes Plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
Nick Maclaren - 25 Jan 2004 12:16 GMT
>This is a new theory which dates to only about 2 years old! The idea
>of Stonethrowing dates back hundreds of years in that scientists
>obviously realized that hominid species threw stones. But only in the
>past 2 years has anyone said that Stonethrowing created bipedalism.

Sorry, but I saw it decades back.  It is one of the variants of the
"tool use created bipedalism" theories, and I am pretty sure that it
goes back at least 50 years.  I wouldn't deny that it was REINVENTED
a couple of years back after having gone out of fashion ....

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Archimedes Plutonium - 25 Jan 2004 21:35 GMT
> >This is a new theory which dates to only about 2 years old! The idea
> >of Stonethrowing dates back hundreds of years in that scientists
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Regards,
> Nick Maclaren.

Nick, it sort of reminds me of my AtomTotality theory in a way. For
there is a author in England around 1930 who wrote a book on the
history of the Atomic theory of Democritus and who makes claim that
Democritus perhaps (emphasize the perhaps) thought the entire Universe
itself could be one big atom. Then there is the passage in Carl
Sagan's book COSMOS where in a paragraph mentions the idea that "our
universe" is an electron inside a bigger universe both nested up and
nested down. And Sagan proceeds to say that this is an "ancient idea"
but gives no specifics as to what he means by ancient idea. And one
can see that the Democritus Universe-Atom is different from the
Electron-Universe Nested Up and Down. Then I came along in 1990 and
said essentially the same as the Democritus Universe Atom.

But, Nick, the difference I made is that I assigned a specific atom, a
specific element and a specific isotope 231Pu. In other words, I gave
it the ultimate in taking the idea Seriously.

Obviously if Democritus had the idea of a Universe-Atom he could not
have given it specifics for the Chemical elements as we know them
today were unknown 2,000 or more years ago. Impossible for Democritus
to make a Atom-Universe specific.

And Sagan's idea of nesting is different and is not as specific
oriented. But if Sagan had been serious or any of the believers of the
nested idea could have emerged into specifics and said something like
perhaps the observable universe is the last electron of a specific
chemical element.

I do not deny that other humans have had the idea that the Universe is
an elementary particle and even an atom. But, if any of my
predeccessors were serious. Actually believed in that idea. Then they
should have come forth with some specifics.

That is exactly what I did in year 1990. I believed in the
AtomTotality theory and I thus said the entire Universe is one big
atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies and this atom
is 231Pu and the night sky of galaxies is the 5f6 of 231Pu and that is
the reason why most of the mass of the universe is hidden in the
nucleus and the reason that microwave background radiation is
blackbody radiation and that is the reason the Universe has two
different ages (Sandage 20 billion years and Freedman 8 billion years)
etc etc I can go on and on as to how this theory agrees with
observations.

My point Nick is that I agree the Stonethrowing theory is old and
hundreds of years old. But if anyone has taken it seriously they would
have understood that there exists unique bones of the human species
designed by "Stonethrowing behaviour" and which do not exist in any
ape skeletons nor in any nonhuman fossil skeletons. That Stonethrowing
behaviour came into existence first and then it created bipedalism.

Pickford became specific with bones on Orrorin when he proved Orrorin
femur groove implied bipedalism. By doing so, his Orrorin disproves
the Savannah Hypothesis.

But no-one except myself is replacing the Savannah Hypothesis with the
Stonethrowing theory. And I am serious because I state the specifics
that there exists unique bones of Orrorin that proves Orrorin was a
Stonethrower. Senut, Pickford's partner in discovery of Orrorin found
a humerus. She also found several finger bones. No skull of Orrorin
was found. But no-one is allowed to examine all of the Orrorin bones
for the unique Stonethrowing signatures. Especially the crests on the
humerus. It would be nice to have a full elbow of Orrorin.

Nick, there have been numerous Neanderthal fossil bones found. Yet if
anyone took the Stonethrowing theory seriously before me, would have
compared the bones to human and chimp bones of modern day and found
many unique signatures for Stonethrowing. They would have realized
that Neanderthal genetics did not allow Neanderthal to properly throw
stones and rocks and due to this fact would have been the prime reason
for the extinction of Neanderthal species as they encountered the
stonethrowing species of their age. In fact, all of the hominid
species who were less proficient in throwing would have been extincted
by the *most proficient* Stonethrower species. And the bones of the
less proficient throwers are different genetically from the bones of
the most proficient.

Neanderthal could throw overarm and could throw long distance and
could lob short distance of a heavy rock, but Neanderthal could not do
that throwing as proficient as Cromagnon.

So, Nick, I grant the Stonethrowing theory had existed for hundreds of
years, but few, perhaps no-one took it seriously to make the patterned
detail search into the bone morphology of the fossil record. Nor to
apply physics to detail how the bones must genetically change in order
to get to the stage of modern man who can throw 100 mph fast balls in
baseball. Who can pick up a rock weighing many times his own body
weight and accurately lob it onto a predator or rival standing nearby.

Stonethrowing theory existed hundreds of years in the past, but none
have taken it seriously. To take it seriously means finding the
Specifics and those specifics are the unique bone signatures-- the
unique genetics.

Archimedes Plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
 
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