Medical Forum / General / General / August 2009
For You STUPIDS: What The Rest Of The World Does In HEALTH CARE ...
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spicpussy - 23 Aug 2009 14:30 GMT NOTE: The following is for all you BARACK bashers and other racists and gun-nuts out there ... have a semi-educated person read it to you while you pick the dinkleberries off your sh.t-encrusted hairy a.s.
--------------- "5 Myths About Health Care Around the World"
By T.R. Reid Sunday, August 23, 2009
AS AMERICANS search for the cure to what ails our health-care system, we've overlooked an invaluable source of ideas and solutions: the rest of the world. All the other industrialized democracies have faced problems like ours, yet they've found ways to cover everybody -- and still spend far less than we do.
I've traveled the world from Oslo to Osaka to see how other developed democracies provide health care. Instead of dismissing these models as "socialist," we could adapt their solutions to fix our problems. To do that, we first have to dispel a few myths about health care abroad:
1. It's all socialized medicine out there.
Not so. Some countries, such as Britain, New Zealand and Cuba, do provide health care in government hospitals, with the government paying the bills. Others -- for instance, Canada and Taiwan -- rely on private-sector providers, paid for by government-run insurance. But many wealthy countries -- including Germany, the Netherlands, Japan and Switzerland -- provide universal coverage using private doctors, private hospitals and private insurance plans.
In some ways, health care is less "socialized" overseas than in the United States. Almost all Americans sign up for government insurance (Medicare) at age 65. In Germany, Switzerland and the Netherlands, seniors stick with private insurance plans for life. Meanwhile, the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs is one of the planet's purest examples of government-run health care.
2. Overseas, care is rationed through limited choices or long lines.
Generally, no. Germans can sign up for any of the nation's 200 private health insurance plans -- a broader choice than any American has. If a German doesn't like her insurance company, she can switch to another, with no increase in premium. The Swiss, too, can choose any insurance plan in the country.
In France and Japan, you don't get a choice of insurance provider; you have to use the one designated for your company or your industry. But patients can go to any doctor, any hospital, any traditional healer. There are no U.S.-style limits such as "in-network" lists of doctors or "pre-authorization" for surgery. You pick any doctor, you get treatment -- and insurance has to pay.
Canadians have their choice of providers. In Austria and Germany, if a doctor diagnoses a person as "stressed," medical insurance pays for weekends at a health spa.
As for those notorious waiting lists, some countries are indeed plagued by them. Canada makes patients wait weeks or months for nonemergency care, as a way to keep costs down. But studies by the Commonwealth Fund and others report that many nations -- Germany, Britain, Austria -- outperform the United States on measures such as waiting times for appointments and for elective surgeries.
In Japan, waiting times are so short that most patients don't bother to make an appointment. One Thursday morning in Tokyo, I called the prestigious orthopedic clinic at Keio University Hospital to schedule a consultation about my aching shoulder. "Why don't you just drop by?" the receptionist said. That same afternoon, I was in the surgeon's office. Dr. Nakamichi recommended an operation. "When could we do it?" I asked. The doctor checked his computer and said, "Tomorrow would be pretty difficult. Perhaps some day next week?"
3. Foreign health-care systems are inefficient, bloated bureaucracies.
Much less so than here. It may seem to Americans that U.S.-style free enterprise -- private-sector, for-profit health insurance -- is naturally the most cost-effective way to pay for health care. But in fact, all the other payment systems are more efficient than ours.
U.S. health insurance companies have the highest administrative costs in the world; they spend roughly 20 cents of every dollar for nonmedical costs, such as paperwork, reviewing claims and marketing. France's health insurance industry, in contrast, covers everybody and spends about 4 percent on administration. Canada's universal insurance system, run by government bureaucrats, spends 6 percent on administration. In Taiwan, a leaner version of the Canadian model has administrative costs of 1.5 percent; one year, this figure ballooned to 2 percent, and the opposition parties savaged the government for wasting money.
The world champion at controlling medical costs is Japan, even though its aging population is a profligate consumer of medical care. On average, the Japanese go to the doctor 15 times a year, three times the U.S. rate. They have twice as many MRI scans and X-rays. Quality is high; life expectancy and recovery rates for major diseases are better than in the United States. And yet Japan spends about $3,400 per person annually on health care; the United States spends more than $7,000.
4. Cost controls stifle innovation.
False. The United States is home to groundbreaking medical research, but so are other countries with much lower cost structures. Any American who's had a hip or knee replacement is standing on French innovation. Deep-brain stimulation to treat depression is a Canadian breakthrough. Many of the wonder drugs promoted endlessly on American television, including Viagra, come from British, Swiss or Japanese labs.
Overseas, strict cost controls actually drive innovation. In the United States, an MRI scan of the neck region costs about $1,500. In Japan, the identical scan costs $98. Under the pressure of cost controls, Japanese researchers found ways to perform the same diagnostic technique for one-fifteenth the American price. (And Japanese labs still make a profit.)
5. Health insurance has to be cruel.
Not really. American health insurance companies routinely reject applicants with a "preexisting condition" -- precisely the people most likely to need the insurers' service. They employ armies of adjusters to deny claims. If a customer is hit by a truck and faces big medical bills, the insurer's "rescission department" digs through the records looking for grounds to cancel the policy, often while the victim is still in the hospital. The companies say they have to do this stuff to survive in a tough business.
Foreign health insurance companies, in contrast, must accept all applicants, and they can't cancel as long as you pay your premiums. The plans are required to pay any claim submitted by a doctor or hospital (or health spa), usually within tight time limits. The big Swiss insurer Groupe Mutuel promises to pay all claims within five days. "Our customers love it," the group's chief executive told me. The corollary is that everyone is mandated to buy insurance, to give the plans an adequate pool of rate-payers.
The key difference is that foreign health insurance plans exist only to pay people's medical bills, not to make a profit. The United States is the only developed country that lets insurance companies profit from basic health coverage.
In many ways, foreign health-care models are not really "foreign" to America, because our crazy-quilt health-care system uses elements of all of them. For Native Americans or veterans, we're Britain: The government provides health care, funding it through general taxes, and patients get no bills. For people who get insurance through their jobs, we're Germany: Premiums are split between workers and employers, and private insurance plans pay private doctors and hospitals. For people over 65, we're Canada: Everyone pays premiums for an insurance plan run by the government, and the public plan pays private doctors and hospitals according to a set fee schedule. And for the tens of millions without insurance coverage, we're Burundi or Burma: In the world's poor nations, sick people pay out of pocket for medical care; those who can't pay stay sick or die.
This fragmentation is another reason that we spend more than anybody else and still leave millions without coverage. All the other developed countries have settled on one model for health-care delivery and finance; we've blended them all into a costly, confusing bureaucratic mess.
Which, in turn, punctures the most persistent myth of all: that America has "the finest health care" in the world. We don't. In terms of results, almost all advanced countries have better national health statistics than the United States does. In terms of finance, we force 700,000 Americans into bankruptcy each year because of medical bills. In France, the number of medical bankruptcies is zero. Britain: zero. Japan: zero. Germany: zero.
Given our remarkable medical assets -- the best-educated doctors and nurses, the most advanced hospitals, world-class research -- the United States could be, and should be, the best in the world. To get there, though, we have to be willing to learn some lessons about health-care administration from the other industrialized democracies.
[T.R. Reid, a former Washington Post reporter, is the author of "The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care," to be published Monday.]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR2009082101778.html
ken - 23 Aug 2009 17:21 GMT > NOTE: The following is for all you BARACK bashers and other racists > and gun-nuts out there ... have a > semi-educated person read it to you while you pick the dinkleberries > off your sh.t-encrusted hairy a.s. These people are just like sponges. They just suck up the BS being fed to them by the likes of Palin, Rush, Hannity, Bush, Coulter, Beck, Robertson, Cheney, McCain, and the other wingnuts
Raymond - 23 Aug 2009 17:44 GMT > > NOTE: The following is for all you BARACK bashers and other racists > > and gun-nuts out there ... have a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to them by the likes of Palin, Rush, Hannity, Bush, Coulter, Beck, > Robertson, Cheney, McCain, and the other wingnuts America is an Empire and war is America's main industry. Therefore, we cannot be concerned about the health of our citizens Besides, Americans prefer war to other concerns. We can't continue to expand the American Empire with wars and have health care for all Americans. War is far more impportant than the health of the average citizen. We cannot pay for both and Americans do love their wars.
As Randolph Bourne said," With the shock of war the State comes into its own again. The Government, with no mandate from the people, without consultation of the people, conducts all the negotiations, the backing and filling, the menaces and explanations, which slowly bring it into collision with some other Government, and gently and irresistibly slides the country into war. For the benefit of proud and haughty citizens, it is fortified with a list of the intolerable insults which have been hurled toward us by the other nations; for the benefit of the liberal and beneficent, it has a convincing set of moral purposes which our going to war will achieve; for the ambitious and aggressive classes, it can gently whisper of a bigger role in the destiny of the world. The result is that, even in those countries where the business of declaring war is theoretically in the hands of representatives of the people, no legislature has ever been known to decline the request of an Executive, which has conducted all foreign affairs in utter privacy and irresponsibility, that it order the nation into battle. Good democrats are wont to feel the crucial difference between a State in which the popular Parliament or Congress declares war, and the State in which an absolute monarch or ruling class declares war. But, put to the stern pragmatic test, the difference is not striking. In the freest of republics as well as in the most tyrannical of empires, all foreign policy, the diplomatic negotiations which produce or forestall war, are equally the private property of the Executive part of the Government, and are equally exposed to no check whatever from popular bodies, or the people voting as a mass themselves.
The moment war is declared, however, the mass of the people, through some spiritual alchemy, become convinced that they have willed and executed the deed themselves. They then, with the exception of a few malcontents, proceed to allow themselves to be regimented, coerced, deranged in all the environments of their lives, and turned into a solid manufactory of destruction toward whatever other people may have, in the appointed scheme of things, come within the range of the Government's disapprobation. The citizen throws off his contempt and indifference to Government, identifies himself with its purposes, revives all his military memories and symbols, and the State once more walks, an august presence, through the imaginations of men. Patriotism becomes the dominant feeling, and produces immediately that intense and hopeless confusion between the relations which the individual bears and should bear toward the society of which he is a part.
--- War Is the Health of the State http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/hist_texts/warhealthstate1918.html
The United States is essentially an empire that has gone bankrupt. We are like some once very grand family fallen on hard times, who have had their house foreclosed and sit quietly waiting in the parlor, pretending that nothing unusual is happening, while the sheriff is on the way to throw us out on the street. Human beings are creatures of habit: they still continue to act in the old ways long after circumstances have changed. The other day, President Barack Obama announced the next major phase in the “war on terrorism” he inherited from George W. Bush: we’re sending 17,000 more troops to Afghanistan, doubling the number of American troops in that country, and have begun to launch cross-border attacks in Pakistani territory. The war on terrorism is expanding even as the American economy continues to shrink. How will we pay for it?
Anyone who seriously believes that the U.S. will pull back, that it will give up its claim to the job of world policeman – or even reduce its international presence to any significant degree – is dreaming. Indeed, the current financial crisis may very well prove to be an incentive for an increased presence, and specifically an escalation of the so-called “war on terror.”
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2009/03/23/the-american-empire-a-f.. . Onward Christian soldiers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsbAba0qLHI
jaf - 23 Aug 2009 21:06 GMT On Aug 23, 12:21 pm, ken <flakey...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Aug 23, 6:30 am, spicpussy <clitte...@yahoo.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > to them by the likes of Palin, Rush, Hannity, Bush, Coulter, Beck, > Robertson, Cheney, McCain, and the other wingnuts America is an Empire and war is America's main industry. Therefore, we cannot be concerned about the health of our citizens Besides, Americans prefer war to other concerns. We can't continue to expand the American Empire with wars and have health care for all Americans. War is far more impportant than the health of the average citizen. We cannot pay for both and Americans do love their wars.
As Randolph Bourne said," With the shock of war the State comes into its own again. The Government, with no mandate from the people, without consultation of the people, conducts all the negotiations, the backing and filling, the menaces and explanations, which slowly bring it into collision with some other Government, and gently and irresistibly slides the country into war. For the benefit of proud and haughty citizens, it
Horsepucky: "Congress shall have the Power to Make War."
"Congress" is the lawfully elected representatives of The People.
The only problem is the lack of term limits.
John
jaf - 23 Aug 2009 21:08 GMT America is an Empire and war is America's main industry.
War is population control.
John
Audrey - 23 Aug 2009 17:56 GMT >> NOTE: The following is for all you BARACK bashers and other racists >> and gun-nuts out there ... have a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >to them by the likes of Palin, Rush, Hannity, Bush, Coulter, Beck, >Robertson, Cheney, McCain, and the other wingnuts I'm beginning to believe theres something wrong with people who believe all the horseshit these a.sholes spew. I don't know..perhaps A DNA abnormaility What makes a woman or man blindly go along without questioning I saw an elderly woman on the television the other night.. She was going on about the so called death panels..."She HAD HEARD" and she now believes it. Seems like a certain percentage of Americans are totally incapable of thnking for themselves If Rush says the sky is green the sky must be green. If Sarah says says Obama wants to kill my baby Obama wants to kill my baby. And theres the idiots who show up with guns at a health care rally..Their excuse.. Because I can? I can go fly my kite in a lightning storm..perfectlly legal.. No one can stop me from being stupid
Suppurating Tool - 23 Aug 2009 19:43 GMT > On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:21:43 -0700 (PDT), ken > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > lightning storm..perfectlly legal.. No one can stop me from being > stupid ============== GIVE IT UP!
These sub-humans can't be reasoned with.
If Sean Hannity told 'em to put what's left of their savings in Milk Bone or French Tickler stock, they'd do it in a heartbeat.
Edward - 23 Aug 2009 23:01 GMT >> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:21:43 -0700 (PDT), ken >> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > If Sean Hannity told 'em to put what's left of their savings in Milk > Bone or French Tickler stock, they'd do it in a heartbeat. Wouldn't someone like Hannity refer to them as Freedom Ticklers?
SaPeIsMa - 24 Aug 2009 23:42 GMT On Aug 23, 12:56 pm, Audrey <A...@bettyboop.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:21:43 -0700 (PDT), ken > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > lightning storm..perfectlly legal.. No one can stop me from being > stupid # # ============== # GIVE IT UP! # # These sub-humans can't be reasoned with. #
Who are the real sub-humans ? The people you denigrate ? Or yourself, who justifies your denigration based on ignorance and prejudice ?
Stormin Mormon - 23 Aug 2009 23:51 GMT I presume that you mindlessly believe that Obama's health care plan (which hasn't been released, to my knowledge) will lower cost and improve service.
 Signature Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
I'm beginning to believe theres something wrong with people who believe all the horseshit these a.sholes spew. I don't know..perhaps A DNA abnormaility What makes a woman or man blindly go along without questioning I saw an elderly woman on the television the other night.. She was going on about the so called death panels..."She HAD HEARD" and she now believes it. Seems like a certain percentage of Americans are totally incapable of thnking for themselves If Rush says the sky is green the sky must be green. If Sarah says says Obama wants to kill my baby Obama wants to kill my baby. And theres the idiots who show up with guns at a health care rally..Their excuse.. Because I can? I can go fly my kite in a lightning storm..perfectlly legal.. No one can stop me from being stupid
jose el fontanero - 24 Aug 2009 00:01 GMT On Aug 23, 4:51 pm, "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I presume that you mindlessly believe that Obama's health > care plan (which hasn't been released, to my knowledge) will [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > being > stupid There are still some who believe in false "Hope" and impoverishing "Change."
SaPeIsMa - 24 Aug 2009 23:43 GMT On Aug 23, 4:51 pm, "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I presume that you mindlessly believe that Obama's health > care plan (which hasn't been released, to my knowledge) will > lower cost and improve service. # # There are still some who believe in false "Hope" and # impoverishing "Change."
Just as there are some who believe that Obambi is competently running this country
jaf - 24 Aug 2009 02:02 GMT >I presume that you mindlessly believe that Obama's health > care plan (which hasn't been released, to my knowledge) will > lower cost and improve service. Absolutely guaranteed to happen 67 days after cows grow wings and learn to fly without aircraft or divine intervention.
John
Aratzio - 24 Aug 2009 02:09 GMT >>I presume that you mindlessly believe that Obama's health >> care plan (which hasn't been released, to my knowledge) will [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >John Convenient how you ignore that the current system is guaranteed to cost significantly more.
So you ignore the provable facts and whine about the projections and estimates.
Willful ignorance is going to kill you long before the "death panels".
jaf - 24 Aug 2009 12:45 GMT >>>I presume that you mindlessly believe that Obama's health >>> care plan (which hasn't been released, to my knowledge) will [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Willful ignorance is going to kill you long before the "death panels". HA HA HA. HO HO HO. HE HE HE.
Ken - 24 Aug 2009 16:58 GMT > On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:21:43 -0700 (PDT), ken > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > lightning storm..perfectlly legal.. No one can stop me from being > stupid Not just 'something wrong" There a whole lot wrong with these "Rightards"..lack of education, no common sense, can't think for themselves, couldn't reason their way out of a wet paper bag. You otta hear these ranting nutcases try to compose an intelligent thought on TV or raido call-in shows. I think they are all direct desendants from the Deliverance Clan
SaPeIsMa - 24 Aug 2009 23:46 GMT On Aug 23, 9:56 am, Audrey <A...@bettyboop.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:21:43 -0700 (PDT), ken > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > lightning storm..perfectlly legal.. No one can stop me from being > stupid # # Not just 'something wrong" # There a whole lot wrong with these "Rightards"..lack of education, no # common sense, can't think for themselves, couldn't reason their way # out of a wet paper bag. # You otta hear these ranting nutcases try to compose an intelligent # thought on TV or raido call-in shows. # I think they are all direct desendants from the Deliverance Clan
Who are the real idiots ? The ones who totally discount the intelligence, or thought process of others and then engage in name calling. ? Appears that you are really describing yourself
.
stmarysbloodycunthole - 25 Aug 2009 03:41 GMT > On Aug 23, 9:56 am, Audrey <A...@bettyboop.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > - Show quoted text - BUSH ALREADY RUINED THE COUNTRY JESUS f.cker, OBAMA HAS TO CLEAN UP THE RIGHT WING STENCH
SaPeIsMa - 24 Aug 2009 23:42 GMT >>> NOTE: The following is for all you BARACK bashers and other racists >>> and gun-nuts out there ... have a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>to them by the likes of Palin, Rush, Hannity, Bush, Coulter, Beck, >>Robertson, Cheney, McCain, and the other wingnuts Who are the real a.sholes ? The people you denigrate ? Or yourself, who justifies your denigration based on ignorance and prejudice ?
stmarysbloodycunthole - 25 Aug 2009 03:40 GMT > >>> NOTE: The following is for all you BARACK bashers and other racists > >>> and gun-nuts out there ... have a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Or yourself, who justifies your denigration based on ignorance and prejudice > ? JESUS f.ckers SUCH AS SA PELS MA, ARE THE PROBLEM WITH THE USA, JUST GET THE JESUS f.ckers OUT OF THE COUNTRY AND WE WILL FLOURISH AGAIN
Happy Oyster - 26 Aug 2009 11:52 GMT >> >>> NOTE: The following is for all you BARACK bashers and other racists >> >>> and gun-nuts out there ... have a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >JESUS f.ckers SUCH AS SA PELS MA, ARE THE PROBLEM WITH THE USA, JUST >GET THE JESUS f.ckers OUT OF THE COUNTRY AND WE WILL FLOURISH AGAIN They are the majoring minority...
 Signature Sause an Kanzler's Kapitänstisch? http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_no15.htm
SaPeIsMa - 26 Aug 2009 14:05 GMT >>> >>> NOTE: The following is for all you BARACK bashers and other racists >>> >>> and gun-nuts out there ... have a [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > They are the majoring minority... One has to wonder how I've earned the defamatory "Jesus f.cker" This is particularly droll since I'm really an agnostic But then the anus-nymous posters who bandy such ignorant insults are really just ignorant and projecting their shortcomings on everyone else to justify themselves.
ken - 26 Aug 2009 16:49 GMT > "Happy Oyster" <happy.oys...@ariplex.com> wrote in message
> >>JESUS f.ckers SUCH AS SA PELS MA, ARE THE PROBLEM WITH THE USA, JUST > >>GET THE JESUS f.ckers OUT OF THE COUNTRY AND WE WILL FLOURISH AGAIN
> One has to wonder how I've earned the defamatory "Jesus f.cker" Naw You're just a Brainwashed Rightarded a.shole
Fred Oinka - 26 Aug 2009 22:36 GMT > > "Happy Oyster" <happy.oys...@ariplex.com> wrote in message > > >>JESUS f.ckers SUCH AS SA PELS MA, ARE THE PROBLEM WITH THE USA, JUST [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Naw > You're just a Brainwashed Rightarded a.shole As opposed to someone who calls himself, "stmarysbloodycunthole" and calls people "Jesus f.cker"? Any civilized individual would disagree.
SaPeIsMa - 27 Aug 2009 00:31 GMT On Aug 26, 6:05 am, "SaPeIsMa" <SaPeI...@HotMail.com> wrote:
> "Happy Oyster" <happy.oys...@ariplex.com> wrote in message
> >>JESUS f.ckers SUCH AS SA PELS MA, ARE THE PROBLEM WITH THE USA, JUST > >>GET THE JESUS f.ckers OUT OF THE COUNTRY AND WE WILL FLOURISH AGAIN
> One has to wonder how I've earned the defamatory "Jesus f.cker" # # Naw # You're just a Brainwashed Rightarded a.shole
One has to wonder at the parrots that keep repeating such nonsense.
Fredric L. Rice - 27 Aug 2009 04:54 GMT >> "Happy Oyster" <happy.oys...@ariplex.com> wrote in message >>>>JESUS f.ckers SUCH AS SA PELS MA, ARE THE PROBLEM WITH THE USA, JUST >>>>GET THE JESUS f.ckers OUT OF THE COUNTRY AND WE WILL FLOURISH AGAIN >> One has to wonder how I've earned the defamatory "Jesus f.cker" >Naw You're just a Brainwashed Rightarded a.shole To be fair, anyone who thinks he has a Jesus god is a "Jesus f.cker," it's only a matter of degree. }:-}
--- Christianity is nothing more a deadly hate cult. Here's more evidence: http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/gospel-hate-arizona-pastor-steve-and
Fred Oinka - 27 Aug 2009 16:23 GMT > >> "Happy Oyster" <happy.oys...@ariplex.com> wrote in message > >>>>JESUS f.ckers SUCH AS SA PELS MA, ARE THE PROBLEM WITH THE USA, JUST [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > To be fair, anyone who thinks he has a Jesus god is a "Jesus f.cker," > it's only a matter of degree. }:-} That makes about as much sense as the rest of your rantings.
Fredric L. Rice - 28 Aug 2009 03:54 GMT >> >> "Happy Oyster" <happy.oys...@ariplex.com> wrote in message >> >>>>JESUS f.ckers SUCH AS SA PELS MA, ARE THE PROBLEM WITH THE USA, JUST [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> it's only a matter of degree. }:-} > That makes about as much sense as the rest of your rantings. When you enter recovery and detox, maybe then you'll start to understand your intellectual and moral superiors.
---
Fred Oinka - 28 Aug 2009 12:26 GMT > >> >> "Happy Oyster" <happy.oys...@ariplex.com> wrote in message > >> >>>>JESUS f.ckers SUCH AS SA PELS MA, ARE THE PROBLEM WITH THE USA, JUST [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > When you enter recovery and detox, maybe then you'll start to > understand your intellectual and moral superiors. OH GOODY!!!
Fredric L. Rice - 23 Aug 2009 20:13 GMT >> NOTE: The following is for all you BARACK bashers and other racists >> and gun-nuts out there ... =A0have a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >to them by the likes of Palin, Rush, Hannity, Bush, Coulter, Beck, >Robertson, Cheney, McCain, and the other wingnuts It's easier to be a Republidiot than it is to think for oneself.
--- Christianity is nothing more a deadly hate cult. Here's more evidence: http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/gospel-hate-arizona-pastor-steve-and
Stormin Mormon - 23 Aug 2009 23:29 GMT Lets see. You totally discount the intelligence, or thought process of conservatives. And then you engage in name calling. Of course, that's what your Uncle Adolf did to get people used to the thought of putting Jews in camps.
 Signature Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
These people are just like sponges. They just suck up the BS being fed to them by the likes of Palin, Rush, Hannity, Bush, Coulter, Beck, Robertson, Cheney, McCain, and the other wingnuts
Ken - 24 Aug 2009 17:02 GMT On Aug 23, 3:29 pm, "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Lets see. You totally discount the intelligence, or thought > process of conservatives. And then you engage in name [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Beck, > Robertson, Cheney, McCain, and the other wingnuts Oh yeah. Like we really should accept the word of some brainwashed LDS cult member
SaPeIsMa - 24 Aug 2009 23:41 GMT On Aug 23, 6:30 am, spicpussy <clitte...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> NOTE: The following is for all you BARACK bashers and other racists > and gun-nuts out there ... have a > semi-educated person read it to you while you pick the dinkleberries > off your sh.t-encrusted hairy a.s. # # These people are just like sponges. They just suck up the BS being fed # to them by the likes of Palin, Rush, Hannity, Bush, Coulter, Beck, # Robertson, Cheney, McCain, and the other wingnuts
Who are the real sponges ? The people you denigrate ? Or yourself, who justifies your denigration based on ignorance and prejudice ?
ken - 25 Aug 2009 02:49 GMT > On Aug 23, 6:30 am, spicpussy <clitte...@yahoo.com> wrote:> NOTE: The following is for all you BARACK bashers and other racists > > and gun-nuts out there ... have a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Or yourself, who justifies your denigration based on ignorance and prejudice > ? Ignorance and prejudice.. Two concepts at which Rightards excel.
SaPeIsMa - 25 Aug 2009 03:59 GMT On Aug 24, 3:41 pm, "SaPeIsMa" <SaPeI...@HotMail.com> wrote:
> "ken" <flakey...@earthlink.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > prejudice > ? # # Ignorance and prejudice.. Two concepts at which Rightards excel. #
Sounds like the only spouting ignorance and prejudice here is you..
iq_ - 23 Aug 2009 17:47 GMT > NOTE: The following is for all you BARACK bashers and other racists > and gun-nuts out there ... have a [quoted text clipped - 178 lines] > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR200... You forgot to mention that Barack Hussein Obama is a racist (remember the Gates affair), is a communist (he employs Van Jones), and rfuses to release his records. We cannot trust Obama. His plan is to convert the US to communism and his Health Care plan is jsut another step in this plan. Bank care, auto care, and now health care. Obama is trying to convert all our private enterprises into government run plans.
Raymond - 23 Aug 2009 17:56 GMT > > NOTE: The following is for all you BARACK bashers and other racists > > and gun-nuts out there ... �have a [quoted text clipped - 186 lines] > is trying to convert all our private enterprises into government run > plans. RE: We cannot trust Obama. His plan is to convert the US to communism
What the hell is communism. ?
jose el fontanero - 23 Aug 2009 23:27 GMT > > > NOTE: The following is for all you BARACK bashers and other racists > > > and gun-nuts out there ... have a [quoted text clipped - 191 lines] > > What the hell is communism. ? Communism: Impoverish the rich and productive while making all others dependent on the government for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." - Karl Marx
Stormin Mormon - 23 Aug 2009 23:48 GMT communism - 4 dictionary results
Dictionary.com com?mu?nism /'k?my??n?z?m/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kom-yuh-niz-uhm] Show IPA Use communism in a Sentence -noun 1.a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
2.(often initial capital letter) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.
3.(initial capital letter) the principles and practices of the Communist party.
4.communalism.
Origin: 1835-45; < F communisme. See common, -ism Dictionary.com Unabridged Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009. Cite This Source
www.russiatoday.com com·mu·nism (kom'y?-niz'?m) n. A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members. Communism A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people. The Marxist-Leninist version of Communist doctrine that advocates the overthrow of capitalism by the revolution of the proletariat.
communism
An economic and social system envisioned by the nineteenth-century German scholar Karl Marx. In theory, under communism, all means of production are owned in common, rather than by individuals (see Marxism and Marxism-Leninism). In practice, a single authoritarian party controls both the political and economic systems. In the twentieth century, communism was associated with the economic and political systems of China and the Soviet Union and of the satellites of the Soviet Union. (Compare capitalism and socialism.)
communism
1843, from Fr. communisme (c.1840) from commun (O.Fr. comun; see common) + -isme. Originally a theory of society; as name of a political system, 1850, a translation of Ger. Kommunismus, in Marx and Engels' "Manifesto of the German Communist Party." The first use of communist (n.) is by Goodwyn Barmby, who founded the London Communist Propaganda Society in 1841. Shortened form Commie attested from 1940.
> You forgot to mention that Barack Hussein Obama is a > racist (remember [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > government run > plans. RE: We cannot trust Obama. His plan is to convert the US to communism
What the hell is communism. ?
The Doctor (as portrayed by Richard Hurndall) - 23 Aug 2009 20:07 GMT > You forgot to mention that iq/"US Army Veteran"/527_bloe_job_gay_pig_newton is a > racist, is a communist (it employs Soviet Socialist Republican Orly Taitz), and rfuses > to release his records. We cannot trust iq/"US Army > Veteran"/527_bloe_job_gay_pig_newton. His plan is to > convert the US to communism and ... > > read more » Obama's birth certificate is REAL!!!!!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB1opCUt4zk
"Crazy Eileen" waves around its birth certificate "issued by the United States of America." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILmqq_4QyhI
"Lizzie the Lezzie" supports the birthers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOkl3FZDCvs
Birthers Continue Idiotic Attacks Against Obama http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVaRdEMlpqk
Birthers' Kenyan birth certificate is an amateurish forgery. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo1XKf0a1po
Queen of the birthers Orly Taitz can't get its facts straight. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwZx-LRYXUU
Queen of the birthers Orly Taitz isn't even an American itself. It was born in what was then referred to as the United Soviet Socialist Republic! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1rYWejLcn4
You KKKrooKKKed lying repugnigoons need to practice birther control.
Stormin Mormon - 23 Aug 2009 23:33 GMT http://www.aapsonline.org/brochures/smoot.htm
Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Inc. A Voice for Private Physicians Since 1943
Socialized Medicine
By Dan Smoot Reprinted in 2000 from The Freeman, April, 1960, with the permission of the Foundation for Economic Education, Irvington-on-Hudson, NY 10533
IN 1884, Prince Otto von Bismarck, Chancellor of Germany, instituted the first modern program of socialized medicine. It was called compulsory national health insurance.
Bismarck hated communism. His motive in introducing socialized medicine in Germany was to buy the loyalty of the German masses as a means of keeping them from becoming communists. Bismarck adopted "nationalistic socialism to end international socialism"-to use his own words. To use other words, Bismarck was the first leader of a great nation to fight communism by adopting communism.
The German citizens paid more for their national compulsory health insurance than they had paid for private insurance before Bismarck came along-and they got less in return.
Bismarck's scheme failed miserably to provide better medical care for the people of Germany; but it did become an important feature of the German militaristic state; it helped pave the way for Hitler a generation later; and it furnished a pattern with which practically every other nation in the West-including America-has experimented.
British Experience England first started experimenting with socialized medicine in 1911. The experiments were a failure, as they always have been everywhere.
But government never retrenches. When government seizes power and money from the people in order to promote their welfare and then makes matters worse for them, government always argues that it didn't have enough power and money to do enough promoting.
In England, for example, when Lloyd George's rather moderate experiment in the Bismarckian type of national health insurance was abandoned, the nation went all the way into communized medicine.
The National Health Program which became the law of England in July 1948 is modeled on the Soviet system created by Lenin.
In less than two years, there were more than half a million people on the waiting lists for hospitalization, while some forty thousand hospital beds were out of service because of a nurse shortage. The hospital shortage in Britain has become so acute that many mentally deficient and helpless, aged people are unable to secure institutional care. The only effective means of easing the shortage is to deny hospital admission to the old and chronically ill who cannot be discharged once they are admitted.
In industrial centers, some British doctors have as many as 4,000 registered patients each. Such doctors can give each patient only three minutes per call-three minutes overall, for consultation, diagnosis, prescription, filling out official forms, and maintaining proper records for governmental inspectors.
Twelve per cent of all British taxes go into the national health program. Thus the wretchedly inadequate "free" medical services in Britain actually cost the average Englishman considerably more than an American pays for the most expensive private health insurance and hospitalization. [NOTE: this was written before Medicare was enacted in 1965 -- Ed.]
Over and above what the British themselves have put into socialized medicine, one must consider also the billions of dollars which America has pumped into the British economy as loans and outright gifts. And still the thing is a failure. Why?
Whenever government enters a field of private activity, that field becomes a political battleground. Whenever you mix politics with medicine, doctoring becomes a political instead of a medical activity.
"Something for Nothing" But the primary reasons for the inevitable failure of socialized medicine can be found in the patients themselves. When people are forced to pay for something, whether they want it or not, they are inclined to use as much of it as they can in order to get their money's worth.
There are endless stories about Englishmen who trade their government-issued eyeglasses, wigs, and even false teeth, for beer. There are housewives who trade government-issued medicine for perfume and cigarettes. And there are some who pick up extra money by selling the gold fillings out of their teeth-getting them replaced by government dentists and then selling them again.
Malingerers are people who pretend to be sick in order to get sick pay, social security benefits, free hospitalization, or a rest at government expense. Hypochondriacs are people who think they are sick, but aren't. There are countless thousands of such people. No system has ever been devised for definitely identifying them, for weeding out the unnecessary or unreasonable or dishonest demands made upon the medical care services-no system, that is, except the one existing in a free society where a person must pay his own doctor bill or is controlled by provisions of an insurance policy which he himself has bought.
No compulsory health insurance program has found a means to discourage racketeers or petty complainers who make useless trips to the doctor and monopolize professional time that should be spent on people really needing care.
Pamphlet No. 1075, August, 2000
Stormin Mormon - 23 Aug 2009 23:34 GMT http://www.williamgairdner.com/the-failure-of-socialized-medi/
The Failure of Socialized Medicine ©William Gairdner 1995 This week, 88 stooges of the Canadian Medical Association stood up to sing the praises of state-controlled "health care" and outvote 68 of their members who boldly suggested we "should be allowed" to spend our own money on our own health, and have that right. Boy. Talk about the dark ages. Canada is still the only country in the history of the Western world to outlaw -OUTLAW! - the provision of basic private medical services. The politicians responsible for this boondoogle saw a huge political pay-off in the imposition of universal "health" care on an unwitting and gullible population of future sickies and formerly free professionals hungry for income security. The ostensible motive was egalitarian fairness. Tom Kent, Prime Minister Lester Pearson's (unelected) adviser wrote that he was "a fervent believer in medicare. I regarded it as morally wrong that money in the bank, rather than severity of need, should determine who got what health care services." Morally wrong? O.K. But because it is easy for the state to solve the money needs of the few who may lack funds, or are just too stupid or careless to buy medical insurance, only a fool or a commisar would agree with his solution. Today, it's not private money in the bank that determines who gets what, but public debt and the falling budgets of profligate governments. So why have ordinary citizens never stood up and said: we are not forced to insure our neighbour's home, and we should not be forced to insure his body. It is wrong to ban the voluntary buying and selling of private professional services in a free society. And it's wrong to offend the Hippocratic Oath (requiring absolute confidentiality between Doctor and patient) by converting by fiat the intimately private medical records of millions of citizens into potential public documents. We have replaced rationing by price with rationing by the queue. Making you wait will either cure you or kill you. A close friend's mother died waiting for heart surgery (waiting lists are a function of budgets). Desperate, my friend had offered to pay the cost. He would borrow the money, if necessary. Operate today. "Sorry. We have an available operating room, and work-hungry nurses and doctors. But we're not allowed to accept private money from Canadians." Socialized medicine killed a Canadian mother. An American tourist with the same sick mother? "Step right up, sir! Pleased to take your money." In fact, many Americans come here for our cheaper (because subsidized) medical care. And no waiting. Last year, another friend took his closest buddy, frothing with a heart attack, to four Toronto hospitals. Turned away at each (there were available operating rooms, etc., but no staff, because no budgets), the buddy died at the fifth. Neither have the people yet said: it is profoundly immoral to finance our "health" care (about 1/3 of most provincial budgets) by massive borrowing from future generations not here to defend themselves. So by now you've noticed the quotation marks around the word "health." That's because many nations - such as Italy and Japan - spend half or less per-capita on what we call health care, yet are just as healthy by all standard measures. Well-regarded U.S. health economist Cotton Lindsay states that by every standard international health measure, "no [national] health plan has even a ripple of an effect on either male or female life expectancy." So the people have not yet said: socialized medicine is obviously a political program, not a health program, that was imposed on Canadians by fiscal bribery of the provinces and legal trickery (health care is constitutionally off-limits to the feds). Nor have they said: the consequent waiting lists for services, the many thousands tripping to the U.S. for care that isn't available here, the closing of whole hospital wings despite high demand, the selective care now in place (we'll treat young, not old, this illness, but not that), the "delisting" of formerly covered services - all this results in a system which is profoundly immoral because it converts the ethic of direct Hippocratic medicine (by which formerly free physicians would do their utmost to heal all patients) into a veterinary ethic by which the quality and amount of care and resources available is now controlled by a master. A political master. In a crunch, we end up with the medical freedom of animals. Neither have they said: that Canada's health care system (in which the trivially ill increasingly compete by right with the truly ill) is swarming with so-called health consultants desperately trying to "rationalize" the system, who necessarily see professionals as the enemy and patients as the meat; that highly-talented specialists have fled our socialized system in droves since the 1960s; that socialized medicine exerts a depressing effect on scientific research and technology; that currently the U.S., which has too many specialists, is successfully luring away legions of good G.P.s; that because Canadian political (and medical) elites are too implicated to admit the gross failure of socialized medicine, we are going to be treated to another 30 years of compensatory policy adjustments and administrative band-aids designed not to make us healthier, but to keep us dumb, thankful, and most importantly - paying.
Copyright © 2008, William D. Gairdner. All rights reserved.
Stormin Mormon - 23 Aug 2009 23:35 GMT http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2004/10/failure_of_soci.html
Failure of Socialized Medicine in Canada October 20, 2004, 5:18 pm
Socialized medicine supporters in the US often talk about Canada's really, really good and affordable care. Except no one can have any, but if they could get any care, I am sure they would love it. Check out this company, Timely Medical Alternatives. Specializes in getting you to the US so you can actually have your operation. Sure must be a mess if there is a niche for this. And by the way, please don't tell me about lower drug prices in Canada. International markets pay marginal cost for drugs (ie just production cost) and we in the US pay full cost (ie including the development costs of the drug plus all the failures). Expanded programs to import marginal cost drugs from Canada will only mean that Canadian drug prices will go up - ours are not going down to those levels. And, if you pass a law saying somehow that they can't raise their prices in Canada and we can import at those prices, then drug R&D is over. Even if you told the drug companies that they were working for the good of man rather than profits, and dropped all their profits into lower pricing, you wouldn't get more than a 10-20% (depending on the company) price decrease for drugs. Are you really ready to kill all future drug innovations for a 15% discount on the current ones? UPDATE The Canadians have now made clear that they will not accept the Kerry plan for mass drug re-importation from Canada. Why? One would think that the socialized medicine supporting politicians in Canada would support Kerry and other socialized medicine supporters in the US. Fellow travelers stick together. The reason, is, of course, that the Canadians have long ago recognized the truth in what I said above. US massive drug re-importation will just cause drug companies to raise prices in the target countries. Canada likes the below-full-cost pricing they get on drugs, and are opting to let the US keep paying for its drug development.
Coyote Blog is copyright 2004-2009 by Warren Meyer. Third parties are free to quote freely from this site as long as a link is provided back to the original article.
Stormin Mormon - 23 Aug 2009 23:36 GMT Well spoken, thanks.
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You forgot to mention that Barack Hussein Obama is a racist (remember the Gates affair), is a communist (he employs Van Jones), and rfuses to release his records. We cannot trust Obama. His plan is to convert the US to communism and his Health Care plan is jsut another step in this plan. Bank care, auto care, and now health care. Obama is trying to convert all our private enterprises into government run plans.
audaxrex@hotmail.com - 24 Aug 2009 13:23 GMT > > NOTE: The following is for all you BARACK bashers and other racists > > and gun-nuts out there ... have a [quoted text clipped - 185 lines] > > read more » You're SERIOUSLY delusional. Medication might help.
Lamont Cranston - 24 Aug 2009 16:43 GMT > You forgot to mention that Barack Hussein Obama is a > racist (remember [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > government run > plans. LOL! More lies from G-Dolf.
Frankie - 24 Aug 2009 05:10 GMT > NOTE: The following is for all you BARACK bashers and other racists > and gun-nuts out there ... have a [quoted text clipped - 178 lines] > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR200... ***Anyone with a simple brain can tell you,right in your face,"Where to get the money for Health care,since USA is terribly broke now?"Since this reporter believed not that Obama is doing what we known as Socialist Plans,or perhaps he shared the communistic belief- of Communism-,living in a Capitalistic country.
By implementing the reform,it will for sure drag the entire country into a hole.No doubt it is a noble plan for all,but when you balance up with the cost,and lower quality social medicine,what one gets would be watered down Cares.
Everyone suspect the immoral and downright corrupted deeds of the Obama's administration,negotiating secretly with the Pharmaceutical companies,a major point in which he cavalierly left it unsaid,shows how skewed his analysis to be.
The proponents of health care,raised serious doubts as they go about doing their business.Imposing it upon American citizens,sound like freedom-curtailed in a supposedly free nation.
Not Sure - 27 Aug 2009 07:43 GMT > NOTE: The following is for all you BARACK bashers and other racists > and gun-nuts out there ... have a > semi-educated person read it to you while you pick the dinkleberries > off your sh.t-encrusted hairy a.s. The dipshits on the left are getting ever more hysterical and desperate now that Obama's idiotic healthcare plans are going down the toilet. It just kills them that they won't be allowed to rob from the winners to pay for the losers :)
> --------------- > "5 Myths About Health Care Around the World" [quoted text clipped - 173 lines] > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR200...
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