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Medical Forum / General / General / January 2004IQ-75 -- Fragile *N* Syndrome...
Guess what? Inherited genes affect intelligence: http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/sunnews/news/local/7635740.htm ********************************* exZerpt************************** Fragile X Syndrome, an inherited genetic disorder that can cause *Mental_Retardation*... ******************************************************************* It'z not bad schoolz, bad teachurz, lead paint, or poor nutrition in the OOW_Fertilized_Womb... DAFNz - What Mother_Nature hath genetically created *DUMB*... > Guess what? Inherited genes affect intelligence That certainly explains your lack of it. People of color are just as intelligent as white people. martin > People of color are just as intelligent as white people. > martin Fragile *N* Syndrome proof: http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pdf/dst2003/2004459.pdf ******************** exZerpt********************************** 2003 NAEP Public Schools Avg Reading Scores Grade 4 Grade 8 White DAFN White DAFN Nation 227 197 270 244 Large Cities 226 193 268 241 Atlanta 250 191 TS 237 Boston 225 202 273 245 Charlotte 237 205 278 247 Chicago 224 193 265 243 Cleveland 208 191 250 238 Dist Columbia 254 184 TS 236 Houston 235 201 270 244 Los Angeles 217 187 266 233 New York City 231 201 270 245 San Diego 231 196 269 236 TS - Sample size too small DAFNz -- What Mother_Nature hath genetically created, are **DUMBER** than white people... >>People of color are just as intelligent as white people. >>martin > > Fragile *N* Syndrome proof: Your data on reading scores does not prove anything about the intelligence of people of color vs the intelligence of white people. You should have seen that immediately from the wide, city-to-city variations in score. Your lack of understanding of such obvious facts, every time you post one of these red herrings, reveals your own lack of intelligence. You are a laughing stock. martin > >>People of color are just as intelligent as white people. > >>martin [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > martin ssssshhhhh. You might scare him. :) B >> Guess what? Inherited genes affect intelligence >That certainly explains your lack of it. >People of color are just as intelligent as white people. Some of them are, and some are not. There is a distribution of intelligence in every group, and these distributions cannot be the same. We need to exploit these differences, and teach all according to their INDIVIDUAL (NOT "racial") abilities. The schools, and communities, can do a lot to destroy mental abilities by stifling those with them.  SignatureThis address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558 It has been known that inherited genes affect intelligence for years. Jeff > It has been known that inherited genes affect intelligence for years. Lotta folks here don't believe that. They think it'z lead paint, poor nutrition in the womb, bad schools/teachers, poverty and/or 400 yearz of opprezzion... >>It has been known that inherited genes affect intelligence for years. > > Lotta folks here don't believe that. They think it'z lead paint, > poor nutrition in the womb, bad schools/teachers, poverty and/or > 400 yearz of opprezzion... It is all those things, and others. The affect of inherited genese on intelligence applies to all races the same way. White people don't have better genes. martin > >>It has been known that inherited genes affect intelligence for years. > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > genese on intelligence applies to all races the same way. > White people don't have better genes. I posted proof of my assertions and you didn't. In every major city, as well as Nationwide (there was line item for that, if you noticed), whites blew away the DAFNz. In Atlanta and DC, the white 4th graders even exceeded the DAFN 8th graderz. In both the 4th and 8th grades, the dumbest white city had a higher white score, than the DAFN score in the "smartest" DAFN city. It doesn't get anymore convincing than that. Something is at work here apart from anything environmental: *GENES* *GENES* *GENES* *GENES* Whites have better genes for intelligence -- and I have provided the proof -- absolute, undeniable, irrefutable *PROOF*... You have provided nothing except warm fuzzy liberal wishful thinking... >>>>It has been known that inherited genes affect intelligence for years. >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I posted proof of my assertions and you didn't. I didn't post proof of your assertions because your assertions are false. Your data do not prove anything with respect to the relative average intelligence of different races. > In every major city, as well as Nationwide (there was line item > for that, if you noticed), whites blew away the DAFNz. In Atlanta > and DC, the white 4th graders even exceeded the DAFN 8th graderz. The differences shown do *not* prove anything about the relative average intelligence white people and people of color. There is nothing in the data to suggest that the differences are due to race. In fact, the differences within race from city to city suggest other causes. You should have seen these obvious facts. You didn't. Why? martin > > I posted proof of my assertions and you didn't. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > race from city to city suggest other causes.> > You should have seen these obvious facts. You didn't. Why? Maybe some additional clarification is in order. Consider: 1. For the last forty years, huge resources have been disproportionately poured into schools trying to close the DAFNgap with negligible results. Everything has failed. 2. MultiBillionz have been poured into HeadStart program to pump-up (mainly) DAFNz as preschoolerz with no luck. 3. Smart white kids have been removed to private schools by their smart parents (remember IQ is genetic) thereby dropping the public school white average scores. 4. The dumbest DAFNz have been encouraged to drop out of school to raise the DAFN average scorz. 5. And in many cases the teachers and administrators have engaged in downright *cheating* (feeding correct answers and changing answers after the fact) on tests to incerase apparent DAFN performance because of all the intense pressure to "equalize" DAFNz. I have recently posted news items on *all* this abominable stuff. And *STILL* the IQ-75 OOW_Breeding Genetic Defective DAFNz have not significantly improved in comparison to whites. It'z Bad_Genes causing the DAFN_Gapidemic. Supreme Court -- Brown vs. DNA, 1954 was a total LOOZer. Here's the proof: http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pdf/dst2003/2004459.pdf ******************** exZerpt********************************** 2003 NAEP Public Schools Avg Reading Scores Grade 4 Grade 8 White IQ-75 DAFN White IQ-75 DAFN LOOZerz LOOZerz ***Nation*** ------> 227 197 270 244 Large Cities 226 193 268 241 Atlanta 250 191 TS 237 Boston 225 202 273 245 Charlotte 237 205 278 247 Chicago 224 193 265 243 Cleveland 208 191 250 238 Dist Columbia 254 184 TS 236 Houston 235 201 270 244 Los Angeles 217 187 266 233 New York City 231 201 270 245 San Diego 231 196 269 236 TS - Sample size too small DAFNz -- What Mother_Nature hath *GENETICALLY* created, are **DUMBER** than white people... >> > I posted proof of my assertions and you didn't. >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > disproportionately poured into schools trying to close > the DAFNgap with negligible results. Everything has failed. Which proves that we don't know how to apply resources to solve the problems. But the people applying the resources are predominantly white, so one might conclude something about white intelligence from this if one were trying to make a case. >2. MultiBillionz have been poured into HeadStart program > to pump-up (mainly) DAFNz as preschoolerz with no luck. Which proves that it may take something more than throwing money at a problem to solve it. >3. Smart white kids have been removed to private schools by their > smart parents (remember IQ is genetic) thereby dropping the > public school white average scores. Private schools have a slightly higher average on NAEP testing, but some states have higher averages than the national private school average. >4. The dumbest DAFNz have been encouraged to drop out of school > to raise the DAFN average scorz. That obviously would not apply to 4th and 8th graders, which are the statistics you posted below. >5. And in many cases the teachers and administrators have engaged > in downright *cheating* (feeding correct answers and changing > answers after the fact) on tests to incerase apparent DAFN > performance because of all the intense pressure to "equalize" DAFNz. Cheating has occurred with both whites and blacks. >I have recently posted news items on *all* this abominable stuff. With nary a shred of critical thinking. >And *STILL* the IQ-75 OOW_Breeding Genetic Defective DAFNz have not >significantly improved in comparison to whites. It'z Bad_Genes >causing the DAFN_Gapidemic. Supreme Court -- Brown vs. DNA, 1954 >was a total LOOZer. Even if your claim was true, Brown vs Board was constitutionally required. >Here's the proof: >http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pdf/dst2003/2004459.pdf I see a 20 point spread in black scores, and a 50 point spread in white scores at the 4th grade level. Are Cleveland white 4th graders only slightly smarter than Charlotte blacks? At the 8th grade level there is a 20 point spread among whites and a 10 point spread among blacks (and nationally and in most locales, 8th grade blacks are well ahead of 4th grade whites). The gap between blacks and whites narrows with time (and not because of dropouts and private schools, because 8th graders don't drop out, and private school enrollment *decreases* in the higher grades). Thus education is having a beneficial effect. See: it's all in the spin; you have no "proof". You claim the data shows black genetic inferiority. I claim that the data shows that the schools are proving effective in helping blacks, who are severely disadvantaged when they start school and close the gap as their education proceeds. lojbab >******************** exZerpt********************************** > 2003 NAEP Public Schools Avg Reading Scores [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > TS - Sample size too small Signaturelojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group (Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.) Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org > >1. For the last forty years, huge resources have been > > disproportionately poured into schools trying to close [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > white, so one might conclude something about white intelligence from > this if one were trying to make a case. Since the best available white minds have been unable to solve the problem, a strong possibility is that it is impossible to solve (not every problem has a solution). This is not an indication of whites lacking intelligence, but rather that the problem is something genetic. Your're inability to grasp this possibility says much about *YOUR* intelligence. > >2. MultiBillionz have been poured into HeadStart program > > to pump-up (mainly) DAFNz as preschoolerz with no luck. > > Which proves that it may take something more than throwing money at a > problem to solve it. Like currently unavailable Gene_Therapies... > >4. The dumbest DAFNz have been encouraged to drop out of school > > to raise the DAFN average scorz. > > That obviously would not apply to 4th and 8th graders, which are the > statistics you posted below. I'll bet there's lots of DAFN 4th & 8th grade dropoutz. No one is enforcing mandatory attendance laws, or even more interesting, keeping score on these IQ-75 LOOZerz. Inner cities are full of them hangin' on the streetz during "school" hourz. The dropout rate is calculated based on those who actually *started* the ninth grade, which is certainly not all, DAFNz ezpecially. This is a problem even *more* embarassing than the DAFN gapidemic, and the administrators have their heads firmly buried in the sand. > >5. And in many cases the teachers and administrators have engaged > > in downright *cheating* (feeding correct answers and changing > > answers after the fact) on tests to incerase apparent DAFN > > performance because of all the intense pressure to "equalize" DAFNz. > > Cheating has occurred with both whites and blacks. Cheating has been primarily employed to reduce the achievement gap. That's why they have mandatory testing percentages of 95% for the NCLB categories. Too many schools were telling the dumbest DAFNz (teachers all know who they are) to stay home on test days, to elevate the DAFNscorz average. > >******************** exZerpt********************************** > > 2003 NAEP Public Schools Avg Reading Scores [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > > > TS - Sample size too small >> >4. The dumbest DAFNz have been encouraged to drop out of school >> > to raise the DAFN average scorz. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >I'll bet there's lots of DAFN 4th & 8th grade dropoutz. I await your evidence. >No one is enforcing mandatory attendance laws, Really? http://www.cnn.com/2002/fyi/teachers.ednews/08/28/tech.truancy.ap/ http://www.ncjrs.org/html/ojjdp/201241/616104v2.pdf (see chapter 4) >Inner cities are full of them hangin' on the streetz during "school" hourz. And you know this how? >> >5. And in many cases the teachers and administrators have engaged >> > in downright *cheating* (feeding correct answers and changing [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Cheating has been primarily employed to reduce the achievement gap. Not likely, because the "achievement gap" is not something that schools are held accountable for. Under NCLB they have to get white scores up, black scores up, etc. All of them. lojbab Signaturelojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group (Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.) Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org > >Inner cities are full of them hangin' on the streetz during "school" hourz. > > And you know this how? Oh, sure, there's a little show-of-force here-and-there from time to time. Makes it look like the system is working. But the pre-high-school dropout problem is substantial and largely swept under the rug. Anyone with two functioning eyeballs can verify that with first-hand observationz. There are no statistics on this because the system is too embarrassed to face it. It's the public school equivalent of driving 5mph over the speed limit with impunity. No enforcement.... I have driven down Martin Luther King Way S. in South Seattle at 10-11 AM on school days and seen the elementary school-aged OOW_Bred_DAFN_Kidz hangin' out. Ditto our local Section_8 ScumPlexes -- kiddeez all over the plaze during zchool hourz (oh, I know, they're home-schoolin'...). DAFN_Mammiez can't be bothered wid dat white stuff (sendin' kidz to school). Why don't you boogie over to DC, Bob, and get us an eye-witness report from DAFN_Ground_Zero on this situation. Nobody screwz with truanzy enforzement where wholezale violenze iz rampant. >> >Inner cities are full of them hangin' on the streetz during "school" hourz. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >statistics on this because the system is too embarrassed to >face it. In other words, you have no evidence. Just prejudice. >Why don't you boogie over to DC, Bob, and get us an eye-witness >report from DAFN_Ground_Zero on this situation. I've been in DC during school hours. No kids except in the tourist areas, and they are mostly white. lojbab Signaturelojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group (Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.) Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org > >> >Inner cities are full of them hangin' on the streetz during "school" hourz. > >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > In other words, you have no evidence. Just prejudice. This one fell in my lap this morning - really hilarious, it'z our very own Federal DAFN Secty of Education in action, dumping 8th graders onto the streetz to reduce the DAFN Gapidemic: http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9687 ************************* exZerpt ********************************** Rod Paige ceremoniously escorts the privateers into the federal treasury, as his public relations team spins obfuscations to mask the crime. Thats Paiges specialty. While superintendent of Houstons schools (1994-2000), he presided over phony reductions in dropout rates, accomplished with sleight of hand. Fantastically high test scores were achieved in the 10th grade by holding "slow" learners in the ninth grade until they drifted away. As a former Houston assistant principal told The Washington Post November 8, "The secret of doing well in the 10th-grade tests is not to let the problem kids get to the 10th grade." Houstons standardized testing "miracle," the cruel game of smoke, mirrors and lies that cemented Paiges partnership with then-Governor George Bush, has become a national scandal. "In the 2001-2002 school year," the Post reported, "the size of the ninth-grade class in Texas was 1.6 times the size of the 12th-grade class. In Houston, there were 2.5 times as many ninth-graders as 12th-graders." A New York Times investigation "raises serious doubts" about the academic gains reported among Houston students who manage to graduate. "About 13,600 eighth graders in 1998 dwindled to fewer than 8,000 high school graduates," said the December 3 article. "Though 88 percent of Houston's student body is black and Latino, only a few hundred minority students leave high school college ready, according to state figures." Academics and laypersons debate the merits of the Texas model that became the template for No Child Left Behind. But the Bush men and their foundation-based thinkers cannot be expected to engage in an honest discussion of whats best for public education in America. They are busy destroying the institution... ******************************************************************* In Houston, DAFN truancy is *encouraged*, to boost the scorz... Supreme Court, 1954, Brown vs DNA - a total LOOZer > > >1. For the last forty years, huge resources have been > > > disproportionately poured into schools trying to close > > > the DAFNgap with negligible results. Everything has failed. > > Which proves that we don't know how to apply resources to solve the > > problems. But the people applying the resources are predominantly > > white, so one might conclude something about white intelligence from > > this if one were trying to make a case. > Since the best available white minds have been unable to solve the > problem, a strong possibility is that it is impossible to solve > (not every problem has a solution). This is not an indication of > whites lacking intelligence, but rather that the problem is something > genetic. Your're inability to grasp this possibility says much > about *YOUR* intelligence. We all grasped that option that you were presenting right away. It was obvious. To claim you think we didnt only shows your poor level of comprehension here. You have been asked for proof of your theory, repeatedly, and each of your responses is nothing like proof, it is noting more than the positing of a theory. You might fool some fools, but this is r.o.m. > > >2. MultiBillionz have been poured into HeadStart program > > > to pump-up (mainly) DAFNz as preschoolerz with no luck. > > Which proves that it may take something more than throwing money at a > > problem to solve it. > Like currently unavailable Gene_Therapies... again nothing more than a theory offered without a shred of evidence. > > >4. The dumbest DAFNz have been encouraged to drop out of school > > > to raise the DAFN average scorz. > > That obviously would not apply to 4th and 8th graders, which are the > > statistics you posted below. > I'll bet there's lots of DAFN 4th & 8th grade dropoutz. No one is > enforcing mandatory attendance laws, or even more interesting, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > even *more* embarassing than the DAFN gapidemic, and the > administrators have their heads firmly buried in the sand. again just a theoretical scenario is offered, nothing there that proves it to be so, or even offers any evidence that it is. > > >5. And in many cases the teachers and administrators have engaged > > > in downright *cheating* (feeding correct answers and changing > > > answers after the fact) on tests to incerase apparent DAFN > > > performance because of all the intense pressure to "equalize" DAFNz. > > Cheating has occurred with both whites and blacks. > Cheating has been primarily employed to reduce the achievement gap. > That's why they have mandatory testing percentages of 95% for the > NCLB categories. Too many schools were telling the dumbest DAFNz > (teachers all know who they are) to stay home on test days, to > elevate the DAFNscorz average. same deal, same bullshit. You'll never convince us because you dont have the ability to comprehend what the statistics mean, or what constitutes proof, or what the problems are with your daft ideas. Go take an IQ test. Regards, NT You ought to read some of the books written by Stephen J. Gould about intelligence and environment. I have yet to see any evidence that shows that white people are more intelligent than any other people. You stated that you have provide "absolute, undeniable, irrefutable *PROOF*". You should go to the group alt.religion or somewhere else. This is not science. It is religion. The hallmark of science is that the hypotheses can be refuted. What you have posted is evidence (certainly not proof) that black people are more disadvantage, on average, than white people as well as evidence that the tests (whatever test you are talking about) have people who are more familar with white culture than black culture. Jeff >You ought to read some of the books written by Stephen J. Gould about >intelligence and environment. I have yet to see any evidence that shows that >white people are more intelligent than any other people. His writings are as biased as any. He claims that one cannot genetically change intelligence, as one "cannot raise IQ by more than 6 points a generation". This is not true, but even so, it is HUGE. In 5 generations, one could raise the average IQ to the Mensa level. Even in one, the proportion of Mensa would more than double. Any evidence will be challenged. The statistical idiots who believe the null hypothesis even can be true will find some way to disregard any study, as will the ideological leftists. Regardless of the distribution of intelligence in the various groups, there is a huge difference in individuals, and the so-called "educational" system, by keeping those of different abilities in the same classroom, is destroying mental progress. >You stated that you have provide "absolute, undeniable, irrefutable >*PROOF*". You should go to the group alt.religion or somewhere else. This is >not science. It is religion. >The hallmark of science is that the hypotheses can be refuted. Those who think the null hypothesis CAN be true are ignorant. >What you have posted is evidence (certainly not proof) that black people are >more disadvantage, on average, than white people as well as evidence that >the tests (whatever test you are talking about) have people who are more >familar with white culture than black culture. Even so, this argues for a different proportion of those achieving a given level of educational success. SignatureThis address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558 > > It has been known that inherited genes affect intelligence for years. > > Lotta folks here don't believe that. They think it'z lead paint, > poor nutrition in the womb, bad schools/teachers, poverty and/or > 400 yearz of opprezzion... I think one problem probably is that we don't teach children who speak 'Ebonics' exactly what it is that they are doing wrong in their speech and instead hit him on the knuckles with rulers and demand that they 'Not do that!!!' Signature"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata." +-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous" > > It has been known that inherited genes affect intelligence for years. > > Lotta folks here don't believe that. They think it'z lead paint, > poor nutrition in the womb, bad schools/teachers, poverty and/or > 400 yearz of opprezzion... All of those things (except opprezzion -- I don't know what that is) definitely affect intelligence too. It is not a question of genetics vs. environment, but rather, intelligence is determined by both genetics and environment. Jeff > > > It has been known that inherited genes affect intelligence for years. > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > It is not a question of genetics vs. environment, but rather, intelligence > is determined by both genetics and environment. Genes determine one's maximum intelligence potential. Environment merely determines the degree to which that potential is schieved. So those without the genetic potential are sunk, even with the best possible environments. That'z why the academic DAFNgap will never be closed. Or are you suggesting any fetus is a potential Einstein if just given the proper nurturing? That's ridiculouz. Max IQ potential is determined at conception. For mozt DAFNz, it ain't pretty.... >Or are you suggesting any fetus is a potential Einstein if just >given the proper nurturing? That's ridiculouz. Max IQ potential >is determined at conception. For mozt DAFNz, it ain't pretty.... The in utero environment is quite influential. The hormones that the fetus is exposed to, the mother's nutrition, whether or not the mother uses alcohol, drugs or cigarettes, all of these have an effect on the fetus and thus on the child that is born. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits > >Or are you suggesting any fetus is a potential Einstein if just > >given the proper nurturing? That's ridiculouz. Max IQ potential [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > mother uses alcohol, drugs or cigarettes, all of these have an > effect on the fetus and thus on the child that is born. Dorothy, I must continue to wonder at makemyday's absurdity. Could it be genetic? Perhaps in utero effects? Or do you suppose that he is simply of a different species purporting to be human? Signature"There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary numbers and those who don't." ----------------------------- Byron "Barn" Canfield >> >Or are you suggesting any fetus is a potential Einstein if just >> >given the proper nurturing? That's ridiculouz. Max IQ potential [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Perhaps in utero effects? Or do you suppose that he is simply of a different >species purporting to be human? My theory is that he's a little troll who lives under a bridge. Not human at all. Alien species, you know. <g> -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits > > >Or are you suggesting any fetus is a potential Einstein if just > > >given the proper nurturing? That's ridiculouz. Max IQ potential [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Perhaps in utero effects? Or do you suppose that he is simply of a different > species purporting to be human? I notice you have nothing to say about that quote from your beloved affirmative action IQ_75 DAFN Secty of Education Rod Paige. It just doesn't get any more incompetent than that. Utterly disgusting: http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9687 "The secret of doing well in the 10th-grade tests is not to let the problem kids get to the 10th grade." Quote from US Secty of Education DAFN Rod Paige on his forcing 9th grade DAFNz to dropout of school as a Houston administrator... Supreme Court, 1954, Brown vs DNA - a total LOOZer >I notice you have nothing to say about that quote from your beloved >affirmative action IQ_75 DAFN Secty of Education Rod Paige. It [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > on his forcing 9th grade DAFNz to dropout of school > as a Houston administrator... But, but... I thought you wanted to hold back the problem students. Would you rather promote them? -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits > >I notice you have nothing to say about that quote from your beloved > >affirmative action IQ_75 DAFN Secty of Education Rod Paige. It [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Would you rather promote them? If I was calling the shots, *Parenthood* would be licensed. Just like every other activity that strongly affects society: driving, flying, doctors, dentists, attorneys, etc. That way, few of the "problem students" IQ-75 types, would ever be bred in the first place. Genes for violence (we will have a handle on this soon), convicted felons, would also be disqualifierz. Nobody under IQ-100 would be granted a license. BWOL (Breeding Without a License) would be a capital offense, no plea-bargaining. Time to clean up society: Eugenics, a system that *WORKS*... >> >I notice you have nothing to say about that quote from your beloved >> >affirmative action IQ_75 DAFN Secty of Education Rod Paige. It [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Time to clean up society: Eugenics, a system that *WORKS*... Even in communist China they couldn't manage to make that work. lojbab Signaturelojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group (Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.) Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org > >BWOL (Breeding Without a License) would be a capital offense, > >no plea-bargaining. > > > >Time to clean up society: Eugenics, a system that *WORKS*... > > Even in communist China they couldn't manage to make that work. Nonsense! While NOTHING is 100% China's "One Child" rule HAS reduced population growth and had the side effect of creating a shortage of females. You silly liberals really believe that laws don't affect behavior. That's nonsense. >> >BWOL (Breeding Without a License) would be a capital offense, >> >no plea-bargaining. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Nonsense! While NOTHING is 100% China's "One Child" rule HAS reduced >population growth But it hasn't come close to stopping it. >and had the side effect of creating a shortage of females. Only because of abortion and infanticide, two things that the right wing supposedly doesn't approve of. If there wasn't wholesale mass murder of infant girls in China, the population would still be growing rapidly. >You silly liberals really believe that laws don't affect behavior. What liberal has ever claimed this? (I'm not a liberal). lojbab Signaturelojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group (Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.) Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org > >> >BWOL (Breeding Without a License) would be a capital offense, > >> >no plea-bargaining. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > But it hasn't come close to stopping it. It slowed it down a LOT. That was their purpose and they achieved much of what they attempted. > >and had the side effect of creating a shortage of females. > > Only because of abortion and infanticide, two things that the right > wing supposedly doesn't approve of. If there wasn't wholesale mass > murder of infant girls in China, the population would still be growing > rapidly. That's true and quite beside the point. A strong government CAN make these changes. The value judgment is whether the ends justify the means. Most "right wing" types in the US would say that in the case of population control in China, the answer is NO. The most effective population control is an environment where you can live like a KING with none or only one or two kids but you live like a serf with 3 or more. That's the situation that much of the middle class in the US and europe face. > >You silly liberals really believe that laws don't affect behavior. > > What liberal has ever claimed this? You. > (I'm not a liberal). That's right. Just keep saying that and MAYBE someone would believe you. Test questions: Who is(are) the last GOP presidential candidate you voted for? The last governor? Senator? Representative. >Test questions: Who is(are) the last GOP presidential candidate you voted >for? Bush, Sr, the first time; then Perot (who I consider more Republican than Democrat). Before that, John Anderson; Reagan was anathema, as was Nixon, both of whom I knew from California. I probably would have voted for McCain over Gore. I seriously considered voting for Bush Jr but am glad that I didn't. I was anti-Goldwater as a kid, but the man had class in his later years, and I could have supported him. >The last governor? George Allen, Jr. >Senator? John Warner. In California, Hayakawa once (but not for reelection) and Pete Wilson (who I also supported as San Diego mayor). >Representative. Frank Wolf is Republican; I've supported him every election since I moved here almost 20 years ago. In Northern California Pete McCloskey. In San Diego, I can't remember who the congressman was. I think he was Democrat I've said that I am a moderately conservative, non-partisan centrist, and I meant it. I find Chomsky and Nader as unacceptably extreme as Bush and Reagan. Any more silly questions? lojbab Signaturelojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group (Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.) Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org >> >BWOL (Breeding Without a License) would be a capital offense, >> >no plea-bargaining. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Nonsense! While NOTHING is 100% China's "One Child" rule HAS reduced >population growth and had the side effect of creating a shortage of females. Gee... I always got straight As in math, so I cannot for the life of me understand why, if China's "One Child" law was working CHina's population isn't. in fact, rapidly SHRINKING. Oh, wait... I get it now. It's because China's "One Child" law actually ISN'T working... Silly me. And, BTW, the "One Child" law could not possibly result in a shortage of females. Even the clever Chinese cannot legislate biology. The shortage of females is the result of the wholesale slaughter of female babies by those Chinese who, fearing the legal ramifications of having more than one child, perform retroactive abortions on one's that come out female. (One would imagine that the only resaon a supposedly God fearing conservative Christian like yourself would not vociferously condemn this is because it is, after all, Godless, commie gooks we are talking about here and not actual humans.) >You silly liberals really believe that laws don't affect behavior. That's >nonsense. Ahh... comforting, in a twisted sort of way, that some things in life remain constant. You are still automatically and unilaterally accusing anyone who disagrees with you on anything of substance (or even trivial, for that matter) of being "a liberal". Kind of amusing. When one wants to take issue with you, John, they don't jump all over you for being conservative. They jump all over you for being an idiot. For the entire durations of recorded history (about 5,000) years), and probably for considerably longer, Man has been making and enforcing laws against prostitution, gambling, drunkenness and every other "vice" under the sun. One can stand on any street corner, John, and see just how profoundly those laws have affected behavior. > >> >BWOL (Breeding Without a License) would be a capital offense, > >> >no plea-bargaining. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > And, BTW, the "One Child" law could not possibly result in a > shortage of females. Don't be stupid. The fact is that there is a deficit of nearly 60 million woman in china due to the one child law and the parents preference for a male offspring. Learn _before_ you pontificate, dolt. http://taipeitimes.com/News/edit/archives/2002/07/16/148482 >> >> >BWOL (Breeding Without a License) would be a capital offense, >> >> >no plea-bargaining. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >http://taipeitimes.com/News/edit/archives/2002/07/16/148482 Do you bother to read the links you post? Sentence one of paragraph two: "China is probably the world leader in using cheap scans to enable parents to know the sex of their child in the womb and, despite breaking the law, to find a doctor who will abort a foetus for no more reason than it happens to be female." It would seem, from your OWN referrence, that the deficit of females results not from following the law but from violating it - and that the relevant laws are the ones against abortion and prenatal screening for gender, not the "One Child" law. Your link, dolt! Not mine. Here's another one for you though (see II-A-10 in particular): http://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/followup/ga53354.htm > >> >BWOL (Breeding Without a License) would be a capital offense, > >> >no plea-bargaining. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > life of me understand why, if China's "One Child" law was working > CHina's population isn't. in fact, rapidly SHRINKING. The people having the children are probably not yet dying therefore the population grows by the one child as long as both parents are still alive. > Oh, wait... I get it now. It's because China's "One Child" law > actually ISN'T working... Silly me. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > vociferously condemn this is because it is, after all, Godless, commie > gooks we are talking about here and not actual humans.) It doesn't have to be 'retroactive abortion'. The pregnant mother can simply check to see if the foetus is male or female and abort if female. This can be done until the one child is male. Pretty obvious stuff. "Bill Bonde ( the oblique allusion in lieu of the frontal attack )" <stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote: >> >> >BWOL (Breeding Without a License) would be a capital offense, >> >> >no plea-bargaining. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >population grows by the one child as long as both parents are still >alive. Note that Taiwan, without such a policy, has a lower birthrate than the mainland. China's birthrate is only 10% less than the US, and is 20-30% higher than that in most of Europe, as well as Japan. >> And, BTW, the "One Child" law could not possibly result in a >> shortage of females. Even the clever Chinese cannot legislate biology. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >simply check to see if the foetus is male or female and abort if female. >This can be done until the one child is male. Pretty obvious stuff. It doesn't have to be, but in fact it is. There are also enormous numbers of female babies abandoned, and placed in orphanages, where a few get adopted in the West and large numbers die. lojbab Signaturelojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group (Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.) Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org >>I notice you have nothing to say about that quote from your beloved >>affirmative action IQ_75 DAFN Secty of Education Rod Paige. It >>just doesn't get any more incompetent than that. Utterly disgusting: >> http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9687 >> "The secret of doing well in the 10th-grade tests is >> not to let the problem kids get to the 10th grade." >> Quote from US Secty of Education DAFN Rod Paige >> on his forcing 9th grade DAFNz to dropout of school >> as a Houston administrator... >But, but... I thought you wanted to hold back the problem students. >Would you rather promote them? We must do NEITHER. They need education according to their individual abilities and backgrounds, and repeating a grade is usually not a good answer to them not getting it. Unless their failure was marginal, in which case repeating is a waste of time, they are not likely to learn by seeing the same material in the same manner. This may work for such things as training, but not for education. SignatureThis address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558 > > > > It has been known that inherited genes affect intelligence for years. > > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > possible environments. That'z why the academic DAFNgap will never > be closed. Actually, what you are seeing is a poverty gap, not a genetic gap. I know of no evidence that suggests that white's (or any other group's) intelligence is higher than that of another's group. > Or are you suggesting any fetus is a potential Einstein if just > given the proper nurturing? No. Had Einstein been born say in the Bronx in NYC, he might has been a drug addict. > That's ridiculouz. You need to see if your Mozilla news program has a feature called "spell check." I don't claim to have perfect spelling either. > Max IQ potential > is determined at conception. For mozt DAFNz, it ain't pretty.... Actually, the average for (name that group) is the same as for any other group. What is not pretty is what poverty does to that potential. Jeff > <makemyday@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Actually, what you are seeing is a poverty gap, not a genetic gap. Dumb parents are poor because they are dumb (low earning power). These dumb parents beget dumb kids because IQ is genetic/inherited. That expains it, and is the primary effect you are seeing. > I know of > no evidence that suggests that white's (or any other group's) intelligence > is higher than that of another's group. Zillions of peer-reviewed studies (see the 75-page biblio in TBC) > > Or are you suggesting any fetus is a potential Einstein if just > > given the proper nurturing? > > No. Had Einstein been born say in the Bronx in NYC, he might has been a drug > addict. True, bad environments prevent realization of genetic IQ potential. But good environments do not create geniuses. If Mike Tyson or Rodney King had been raised by Einstein's parents, would they have achieved anything remotely approaching Einstein's accomplishments? Nope. They would have just been uncivilized IQ-75 D_A_F_N_z. >><makemyday@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > These dumb parents beget dumb kids because IQ is genetic/inherited. > That expains it, and is the primary effect you are seeing. You haven't offered any proof of that at all. The evidence you have offered does not support your claim. All you have done the equivalent of claiming that you have proved that the sun comes up in the east each day simply because you have observed what you believe to be the sun coming up in the east each day. But as you may or may not know (I'm actually not sure whether you know or not), the sun does not come up at all. The earth rotates, and the rotation causes the sun to appear to come up in the east. The data you published on reading scores are known to be caused by economic and other environmental causes, all stemming from racial discrimination. There is no data to indicate one race is genetically inferior to another with respect to intelligence. And you are a vulgar racist. martin > >>Actually, what you are seeing is a poverty gap, not a genetic gap. > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > racial discrimination. There is no data to indicate one race > is genetically inferior to another with respect to intelligence. Well, I'm afraid you're wrong, and I've posted pieces of this one a few times previously in recent years: http://lsc-net.terc.edu/do.cfm/paper/8108/show/use_set-l_equity ******************** exZerpt *********************************** Shaker Heights prides itself on the excellence of its school system, taxing itself voluntarily with one of the highest rates in the state of Ohio in order to maintain the wide range of academic and extra- curricular programs that provide the students who take advantage of them with an education that would be the envy of any child in the nation. Hence the city tends to attract as residents relatively well-off people who seek both an integrated community and a high- quality education for their children. Every year, the school district sends off about 85% of its graduating seniors to four-year colleges, many of them prestigious, and boasts a remarkably high number of the National Merit Scholarship semifinalists, way out of proportion to the small size of its student enrollment (about 5,500). But all is not well, and the problem is immediately apparent when you walk into classrooms. Although the school population has equal numbers of black students and white ones, in the highest-achievement tracks (the Advanced Placement sections) you find only a handful of blacks (about 10%), while the lowest-achievement tracks (called "general education") are populated almost exclusively by blacks (about 95%). When educational statistics are disaggregated by ethnicity. it is found that black Shaker Heights students on average do better than black students elsewhere, just as white Shaker Heights students do better than their counterparts in other school systems. The real puzzle has been why, although both communities have equal access to all the school district's educational opportunities, the academic performance of black Shaker Heights students lags significantly behind that of their white peers. For example, the average black SAT score in 1996 was 956 (compared to a national black average of 856), while the average for white students was 1198 (compared to a national white average of 1049). ********************************************************************** This has also been observed elsewhere. There is no explanation other than genetic, but that is too sensitive to address in the mainstream media, so folks will continue to pretend they don't know the cause... Supreme Court, 1954, Brown vs DNA -- a total LOOZer... >>>>Actually, what you are seeing is a poverty gap, not a genetic gap. >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Well, I'm afraid you're wrong, and I've posted pieces of this one Yes, but I'm not wrong, and your pieces don't mean what you claim they mean. They don't show anything about genetics at all, let alone genetic differences among human races. You are wrong. You are a racist. What are you trying to accomplish? You are trying to stir up racial hatred. martin > You are wrong. You are a racist. What are you trying to > accomplish? You are trying to stir up racial hatred. Look, Martin, do you *invite* inferiority into your life? I sure-az-hell don't. I deeply rezent having inferiority shoved down my throat under the guize of "equality." Here, Martin, eat this beef from certain Canadian Farmz. Eat theze green onionz from Guatemala, how about theze Fireztone tirez for your SUV? It'z all equal, won't hurt you. Ignore all the data that say otherwize.... And this is about the only forum where one can scream about such injustize with impunity. So stick it in your ear, Martin. Until they pry this keyboard out my my cold dead IQ-160 fingers.... >>You are wrong. You are a racist. What are you trying to >>accomplish? You are trying to stir up racial hatred. > > Look, Martin, do you *invite* inferiority into your life? I guess I must be, because I log into this newsgroup and read your daily screed. > I sure-az-hell don't. I deeply rezent having inferiority > shoved down my throat under the guize of "equality." Learn to spell, m. No one is shoving anything down your throat, except the Bush administration, of course. But that's a different problem. You are not being hurt by affirmative action. You are not being endangered by affirmative action. > Here, Martin, eat this beef from certain Canadian Farmz. > Eat theze green onionz from Guatemala, how about theze > Fireztone tirez for your SUV? It'z all equal, won't hurt you. > Ignore all the data that say otherwize.... What does any of this have to do with people? You have no evidence that black people are inferior to white people. If a particular black person applies for a job in your business, don't hire her. No one will know you are refusing to hire her because you are a racist. She might try to prove it, but you will probably get away with it. Still, she is better off not working for you. I wouldn't work for you myself, and I'm white. If you call a plumber and a black man comes to do the job, don't let him in. Let your basement fill with water instead. If you buy an airplane ticket and as you enter the plane you see that the pilot is a black woman, get back off the plane and stay home. If you flag a taxi in the rain and when one stops to pick you up you see the driver is a black man, wave him on and stand there getting soaked. And when you go to the hospital for your bypass surgery and the surgeon is a black woman, drop dead. No one will know you suffered all that misery only because you were a racist. martin > And this is about the only forum where one can scream about > such injustize with impunity. So stick it in your ear, Martin. > Until they pry this keyboard out my my cold dead IQ-160 fingers.... ...you will continue to be a vulgar racist. I know. Look, I know you have a right to your opinion, and you have a right to express it here, but I also have those same rights. And so do all people of all races. >> You are wrong. You are a racist. What are you trying to >> accomplish? You are trying to stir up racial hatred. > >Look, Martin, do you *invite* inferiority into your life? >I sure-az-hell don't. I deeply rezent having inferiority >shoved down my throat under the guize of "equality." Your workplace must be really interesting. I have never seen one that shoved inferiority down anyone's throat. You need to get your keyboard fixed still. Don't you know anyone who can change your s key back to the correct letter? Heck, I bet I could do that for ya, but I wouldn't want to prevent that high IQ of yours from actually working on something technical. >Here, Martin, eat this beef from certain Canadian Farmz. >Eat theze green onionz from Guatemala, how about theze >Fireztone tirez for your SUV? It'z all equal, won't hurt you. >Ignore all the data that say otherwize.... How about eating McDonald's beef? That's the inferior stuff. Whose forcing you to buy any product you think is inferior? No one I know of. >And this is about the only forum where one can scream about >such injustize with impunity. Your usenet experience is limited. Try the soc groups. Impunity? Nah, you don't get off that easy in any group I know of, but you have plenty of company in the screaming in lots of forums. Of course, your definition of injustice is a bit screwed up. >So stick it in your ear, Martin. >Until they pry this keyboard out my my cold dead IQ-160 fingers.... IQ-160, EQ - 0 -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits > >> You are wrong. You are a racist. What are you trying to > >> accomplish? You are trying to stir up racial hatred. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Your workplace must be really interesting. I have never > seen one that shoved inferiority down anyone's throat. You have never had to pick up the slack and watchout for some thieving DAFN the boss is afraid to fire (EEOC Lawsuitz). And it's worze than that. They get affirmative action jobz, now they gotz (undezerved) money, they movez into your neighborhood, and their culture trashez the neighborhood, schoolz, and shopliftz the businezzes out-of-buzinezz... Then you gotz to move.......... >> >> You are wrong. You are a racist. What are you trying to >> >> accomplish? You are trying to stir up racial hatred. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >You have never had to pick up the slack and watchout for >some thieving DAFN the boss is afraid to fire (EEOC Lawsuitz). Nope. I've seen more white workers slack off than black ones at IBM, for example. >And it's worze than that. They get affirmative action jobz, >now they gotz (undezerved) money, they movez into your >neighborhood, and their culture trashez the neighborhood, >schoolz, and shopliftz the businezzes out-of-buzinezz... > >Then you gotz to move.......... Not moving. And no one trashed my neighborhood or my schools (certainly not the black kids and their parents who live here). And we have lived in very diverse towns and neighborhoods. I live in one now. The schools are considered excellent and we have no big problem with the black kids who live near us. The stores are doing just fine too. They have more problems because of competition from the malls than anything like what you think happens. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits Said makemyday@worldnet.att.net : >You have never had to pick up the slack and watchout for >some thieving DAFN the boss is afraid to fire (EEOC Lawsuitz). I've seen way more whites than blacks in that category. [snip...] Alberto. > >> You are wrong. You are a racist. What are you trying to > >> accomplish? You are trying to stir up racial hatred. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Your workplace must be really interesting. I have never > seen one that shoved inferiority down anyone's throat. It's typical backwards (ill-)logic he applies. If he is not allowed to shove his self-proclaimed (but erroneous) superiority down other people's throats, he considers that the same as having inferiority shoved down his throat. Signature"There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary numbers and those who don't." ----------------------------- Byron "Barn" Canfield >> You are wrong. You are a racist. What are you trying to >> accomplish? You are trying to stir up racial hatred. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > such injustize with impunity. So stick it in your ear, Martin. > Until they pry this keyboard out my my cold dead IQ-160 fingers.... You're still an azzhoal... >> You are wrong. You are a racist. What are you trying to >> accomplish? You are trying to stir up racial hatred. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > such injustize with impunity. So stick it in your ear, Martin. > Until they pry this keyboard out my my cold dead IQ-160 fingers.... You're still an azzhole... > I know of no evidence that suggests that white's (or any other > group's) intelligence is higher than that of another's group. Why of all things it would be the same? A sufficient condition for such difference to exist is the heritability of intelligence. Then even populations of two ethnically homogenious towns are different - one is necessarily more intelligent than the other, even if they're originated from the same pool of people. This is a simple consequence of sampling. Without anything else, the probability of observing large differences between two populations increases with the isolation time. What is the direction and whether the magnitude of such difference has any practical implications is another question. DZ >> I know of no evidence that suggests that white's (or any other >> group's) intelligence is higher than that of another's group. >Why of all things it would be the same? A sufficient condition for >such difference to exist is the heritability of intelligence. Then [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >of sampling. Without anything else, the probability of observing large >differences between two populations increases with the isolation time. >What is the direction and whether the magnitude of such difference has >any practical implications is another question. Those who do not understand probability cannot see this. To them, if there is not a statistically significant difference on a test of which they approve, there is no difference. SignatureThis address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558 >It has been known that inherited genes affect intelligence for years. It has, but the educationists, and the politicians who put in NCLB, want the schools to NOT consider it. SignatureThis address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558 > >It has been known that inherited genes affect intelligence for years. > > It has, but the educationists, and the politicians who > put in NCLB, want the schools to NOT consider it. Nice attempt at fabrication of a straw man, but unfortunately (for your point, that is <g>), not so. No one in either the political, scientific, *or* education communities have ever claimed genes were not a factor in intelligence. However no credible evidence (as in, statistically significiant, reliably repeatable studies) have ever shown it to be *the* only factor, or even the most important one. But of course bigots & similar agenda-motivated types want the world "NOT to consider" that. }}:) Bill >> >It has been known that inherited genes affect intelligence for years. >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Bill ssssshhhhh. You might scare him. :) Craig > >> >It has been known that inherited genes affect intelligence for years. > >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Craig "You say that like it's a bad thing." }:) B >> >It has been known that inherited genes affect intelligence for years. >> It has, but the educationists, and the politicians who >> put in NCLB, want the schools to NOT consider it. >Nice attempt at fabrication of a straw man, but unfortunately (for >your point, that is <g>), not so. No one in either the political, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >But of course bigots & similar agenda-motivated types want the >world "NOT to consider" that. }}:) Not having a valid statistically significant difference is what the ignorant consider not to be a difference. Statistical significance and practical significance are not at all similar, despite what the textbooks in psychology and education imply. When there is even an attempt to place children by age, and to evaluate schools by the performance of their classes, the difference in intelligence and factors affecting performance is totally ignored. A school can have miserable performance and be doing as well for the students as can be done, and another one can have outstanding performance by having children in 4th grade who should be in 8th, and in 8th who should already be doing good college work. SignatureThis address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558 > When there is even an attempt to place children by age, > and to evaluate schools by the performance of their [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > doing good college work. > -- Do you equate intelligence with performance? If not, how do you determine intelligence if you're against standardized testing? Alan >> When there is even an attempt to place children by age, >> and to evaluate schools by the performance of their [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> who should be in 8th, and in 8th who should already be >> doing good college work. >Do you equate intelligence with performance? If not, how do you determine >intelligence if you're against standardized testing? I said no such thing. Also, the topic is the evaluation of the performance of SCHOOLS, and I pointed out that intelligence and (other) factors on a student basis can affect the performance of a school. A school doing an excellent job with weak students may look poor, and a school doing a very bad job with strong students may come out well. SignatureThis address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558 Here's what you wrote: . " The use of stupid tests, and comparing schools, is not good. " Comparing schools. Comparing individuals. What's the difference? Regardless of whether you compare schools or individuals, some tests need to be standard. Alan > >> When there is even an attempt to place children by age, > >> and to evaluate schools by the performance of their [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University > hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558 >Here's what you wrote: . " The use of stupid tests, and comparing schools, >is not good. " >Comparing schools. Comparing individuals. What's the difference? Regardless >of whether you compare schools or individuals, some tests need to be >standard. >Alan If we use GOOD tests, and use them INTELLIGENTLY. There is an elementary school in Lafayette which is "doing poorly" by the tests. Is this due to the poor teaching, or the low mentality of the students? These are thoroughly confounded. The West Lafayette schools are "doing well" by the tests. This is due to the students with ability losing many years in low-level classes, and not being able to do anything about it. Most of them would do almost as well if they were just given the textbooks and went once a week. SignatureThis address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558 > >> >It has been known that inherited genes affect intelligence for years. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Not having a valid statistically significant difference > is what the ignorant consider not to be a difference. However that is not exactly what you actually claimed above, is it? <eg> > Statistical significance and practical significance are > not at all similar, despite what the textbooks in > psychology and education imply. Be that as it might/might not, what you said is what you said, & what you said was in fact factually incorrect. ;) [And BTW, I doubt you'll find too many (if any) textbooks that either define, describe, infer, *or* imply such a lack of difference the way you claim they do. <eg2>] > When there is even an attempt to place children by age, > and to evaluate schools by the performance of their [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > who should be in 8th, and in 8th who should already be > doing good college work. Quite true, but logic would tend to dictate that any such schools would be rare exceptions, rather than the rule. }:) B >> >> >It has been known that inherited genes affect intelligence for years. >> >> It has, but the educationists, and the politicians who >> >> put in NCLB, want the schools to NOT consider it. >> >Nice attempt at fabrication of a straw man, but unfortunately (for >> >your point, that is <g>), not so. No one in either the political, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >But of course bigots & similar agenda-motivated types want the >> >wo |
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