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Medical Forum / General / General / January 2004getting sick from the gym
Hey, I only go to the gym between semesters and after the last two times I've gone I have gotten sick afterwards, after about 2 weeks of regular attendance. The first time it was bronchitis, the second time it was a cold. Any suggestions on how I can prevent this from happening again? It's about 15 degrees F outside right now where I live. > I only go to the gym between semesters and after the last two times > I've gone I have gotten sick afterwards, after about 2 weeks of > regular attendance. The first time it was bronchitis, the second time > it was a cold. Any suggestions on how I can prevent this from > happening again? Use the gym when there is nobody else there, if possible, or at least choose times when there are very few people present. Also, wash your hands thoroughly after going to the gym, and don't touch your eyes, nose, or mouth with your hands until you have done so. > It's about 15 degrees F outside right now where I live. Cold weather doesn't cause you to become sick. You get sick when you catch germs from someone else who is sick.  SignatureTranspose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. > > I only go to the gym between semesters and after the last two times > > I've gone I have gotten sick afterwards, after about 2 weeks of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > hands thoroughly after going to the gym, and don't touch your eyes, > nose, or mouth with your hands until you have done so. Actually, don't touch your eyes, nose or mouth at all. > > It's about 15 degrees F outside right now where I live. > > Cold weather doesn't cause you to become sick. You get sick when you > catch germs from someone else who is sick. Actually, from someone else. Usually the person is sick, but not always. Often people pass the most germs from an illness before or after they get sick (e.g., chicken pox is most contagious just before symptoms start and viruses that cause diarrhea and vomiting diseases can be spread sometimes for weeks after the vomiting and diarrhea have passed -- sorry about the pun). And sometimes people can be carriers of diseases without being sick (or they had the disease a long time ago, but the viruses are still able to reproduce). So wash your hands, don't touch your face or mouth or eyes and don't worry about it. Jeff >> > I only go to the gym between semesters and after the last two times >> > I've gone I have gotten sick afterwards, after about 2 weeks of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Actually, don't touch your eyes, nose or mouth at all. THis is critical. I have just about entirely stopped getting sick (with a recent exception that I suspect was food poisoning) and I think the key is I no longer ever rub my eyes with the "front" side of my hand. If I have to rub my eyes I use the back side of my fingers (the part that does not touch pathogen covered items all day long). > THis is critical. I have just about entirely stopped getting sick > (with a recent exception that I suspect was food poisoning) and I > think the key is I no longer ever rub my eyes with the "front" side of > my hand. If I have to rub my eyes I use the back side of my fingers > (the part that does not touch pathogen covered items all day long). I carry a little bottle of disinfectant hand cleaner with me and I use that after touching any surfaces that are touched by lots of other people. It seems to work pretty well. I do still have to avoid the subway at rush hour, though. SignatureTranspose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. >> THis is critical. I have just about entirely stopped getting sick >> (with a recent exception that I suspect was food poisoning) and I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >people. It seems to work pretty well. I do still have to avoid the >subway at rush hour, though. You should wear a surgical mask. --- Proton Soup "If I drink water I will have to go to the bathroom and how can I use the bathroom when my people are in bondage?" -Saddam Hussein > You should wear a surgical mask. I would except that people would tend to panic, at least here in Europe. It would work in Japan, though, where this is not unusual (IIRC). SignatureTranspose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. >> You should wear a surgical mask. > >I would except that people would tend to panic, at least here in Europe. >It would work in Japan, though, where this is not unusual (IIRC). You're just no fun at all. --- Proton Soup "If I drink water I will have to go to the bathroom and how can I use the bathroom when my people are in bondage?" -Saddam Hussein > You're just no fun at all. Being sick with the flu for a week is even less fun, and so I try to avoid that like the plague. I don't particularly care how un-fun other people consider it to be. SignatureTranspose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. > > THis is critical. I have just about entirely stopped getting sick > > (with a recent exception that I suspect was food poisoning) and I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > people. It seems to work pretty well. I do still have to avoid the > subway at rush hour, though. I just wash my hands when I get into work. Jeff > I just wash my hands when I get into work. I disinfect my hands each time I get off the subway, and I wash or (if no water is available) disinfect them before eating and after using the bathroom. SignatureTranspose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. > >> > I only go to the gym between semesters and after the last two times > >> > I've gone I have gotten sick afterwards, after about 2 weeks of [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > my hand. If I have to rub my eyes I use the back side of my fingers > (the part that does not touch pathogen covered items all day long). That is a good point. Also, I have come to suspect the drinking fountain as a potential source of pathogens, too. I generally carry a water bottle; if I need to fill it, I don't use the water fountain but a sink in the bathroom; they are used far less than the fountain and tend to have less exposure to people's mouths. Additionally, if the water is city water, it has disinfectant agents in it and the contact time in the bottle is far greater than that of the water fountain. One point that nobody seems to have addressed is overtraining. I have found that overtraining, lack of recovery, less than optimum nutrition and/or lack of rest contributes greatly to the sick factor. Something as simple as eating one less orange or doing a couple of forced reps on a big leg exercise can mean the difference between waking up the following day happy and healthy or sniffling and achey. --TW >That is a good point. Also, I have come to suspect the drinking fountain as a >potential source of pathogens, too. I generally carry a water bottle; if I need >to fill it, I don't use the water fountain but a sink in the bathroom; they are >used far less than the fountain and tend to have less exposure to people's >mouths. Additionally, if the water is city water, it has disinfectant agents in it >and the contact time in the bottle is far greater than that of the water fountain. Maybe this is working for you, but I have read that bathrooms are filthy because the spray from flushing spreads micro bits of contamination all over the sink and everywhere else...which is also a reason to not leave your toothbrush uncovered in your home bathroom unless you cover the toilet seat before flushing. > >That is a good point. Also, I have come to suspect the drinking fountain as > a >potential source of pathogens, too. I generally carry a water bottle; if [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > toothbrush uncovered in your home bathroom unless you cover the toilet seat > before flushing. Except that the studies were poorly done. What they did is put petri dishes with growth media on the floor and flushed the toilets. The problem is that they didn't do anything to prevent bacteria from other sources (like getting kicked up from the floor into the petri dishes, a trip of about 1 inch). So the studies mean nothing. I really doubt that that many bacteria and viruses get itno the air and over surfaces higher than the bowl during flushing. Jeff I cant provide a url but I read on one site the claim that splash from a flush could be found 15ft from the source > > >That is a good point. Also, I have come to suspect the drinking fountain > as [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Jeff > I cant provide a url but I read on one site the claim that splash from > a flush could be found 15ft from the source Gee, a claim? Not very convincing. Jeff prove it wrong . > > I cant provide a url but I read on one site the claim that splash from > > a flush could be found 15ft from the source > > Gee, a claim? Not very convincing. > > Jeff > prove it wrong . > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> Jeff That's not how science works, top-poster. Signature-Wayne yes it is bottom feeder, > > prove it wrong . > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > -- > -Wayne > yes it is bottom feeder, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> That's not how science works, top-poster. Isn't either: you made the claim. Signature-Wayne eliminate everything you can and the remainder must be true , guess who said it . > > yes it is bottom feeder, > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > -- > -Wayne > eliminate everything you can and the remainder must be true , guess who > said it . A fictitious character in a novel? oh dear . not well read are you . shame. > > eliminate everything you can and the remainder must be true , guess who > > said it . > > > A fictitious character in a novel? > oh dear . not well read are you . shame. > > > > eliminate everything you can and the remainder must be true , guess who > > > said it . > > > > > A fictitious character in a novel? One could argue the answer I supplied was correct. You didn't ask who coined the phrase, only who said it. > That's not how science works, top-poster. True, but a statement like "not very convincing" isn't science, either. SignatureTranspose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. > > That's not how science works, top-poster. > > True, but a statement like "not very convincing" isn't science, either. Sure it is. You want to promote your pet hypothesis, you have to convincingly reject the null hypothesis. > Sure it is. You want to promote your pet hypothesis, you have to > convincingly reject the null hypothesis. Where's the science in the null hypothesis? SignatureTranspose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. >> Sure it is. You want to promote your pet hypothesis, you >> have to convincingly reject the null hypothesis. > > Where's the science in the null hypothesis? You are truly clueless. > You are truly clueless. Where's the science in ad hominem? SignatureTranspose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. > > Sure it is. You want to promote your pet hypothesis, you have to > > convincingly reject the null hypothesis. > > Where's the science in the null hypothesis? Dude(?), even though I'm a Bayesian at heart, you need to read some Popper before you mouth off about what is and isn't science again. > > > Sure it is. You want to promote your pet hypothesis, you have to > > > convincingly reject the null hypothesis. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Dude(?), even though I'm a Bayesian at heart, you need to read some > Popper before you mouth off about what is and isn't science again. Some here used to read too much Popper and look what happened. DZ > Dude(?), even though I'm a Bayesian at heart, you need to read some > Popper before you mouth off about what is and isn't science again. If you know, you can explain. Since you prefer personal attacks instead, would it be correct for me to assume that you do not know? If not, why the personal attacks? SignatureTranspose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. > > Dude(?), even though I'm a Bayesian at heart, you need to read some > > Popper before you mouth off about what is and isn't science again. > > If you know, you can explain. Since you prefer personal attacks > instead, would it be correct for me to assume that you do not know? If > not, why the personal attacks? I pointed you toward a perfectly good reference. Look for stuff by Popper on the philosophy of science. But I'm bored of you already, bye now. Sure, no problem. What was the web page again? > I really doubt that that many bacteria and viruses > get itno the air and over surfaces higher than the > bowl during flushing. In any case, if it were a real problem, people would be regularly sickened by their toothbrushes, and yet that does not happen. SignatureTranspose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. >>I really doubt that that many bacteria and viruses >>get itno the air and over surfaces higher than the >>bowl during flushing. > > In any case, if it were a real problem, people would be regularly > sickened by their toothbrushes, and yet that does not happen. Well of course it doens't happen. Isn't everyone closing the seat before they flush? Dally, raising her boys RIGHT! >> I really doubt that that many bacteria and viruses >> get itno the air and over surfaces higher than the >> bowl during flushing. > > In any case, if it were a real problem, people would be regularly > sickened by their toothbrushes, and yet that does not happen. I'm not saying that the aforementioned studies are correct, but even if they were, most people wouldn't get sick all the time from their toothbrushes, despite the fact that other studies have shown that there's some nasty sh.t living in them. The human immune system is much more efficient than most people give it credit for... >>> That is a good point. Also, I have come to suspect the drinking >>> fountain [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Jeff I guess you've never performed a courtesy flush and gotten your a.s all wet... > I guess you've never performed a courtesy flush and gotten your a.s all > wet... What is a courtesy flush? SignatureTranspose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. >> I guess you've never performed a courtesy flush and gotten your a.s all >> wet... > >What is a courtesy flush? My guess is flushing while you sh.t so others within earshot don't hear sh.t noises and splashdowns. Aye? > Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >> I guess you've never performed a courtesy flush and gotten your a.s all > >> wet... > > > >What is a courtesy flush? > My guess is flushing while you sh.t so others within earshot > don't hear sh.t noises and splashdowns. Aye? Nay. It is a flush to reduce the smell, when the smell would make maggots gag. David > Nay. It is a flush to reduce the smell, when the smell would make > maggots gag. Minimize the amount of meat in your diet, and there won't be much smell. SignatureTranspose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. >> Nay. It is a flush to reduce the smell, when the smell would make >> maggots gag. That would be it. > Minimize the amount of meat in your diet, and there won't be much > smell. I'd rather smell. >> Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote: >> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Nay. It is a flush to reduce the smell, when the smell would make >maggots gag. But, but, once it's in the water it can't smell. The smells really coming from your bunghole. If you can smell these odors at the sink area (and I know I have in many cases) then particles are around the sink area. Afterall, smell is the result of particles entering our noses...kind of a disgusting thought, but true. > >> Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > But, but, once it's in the water it can't smell. The smells really > coming from your bunghole. > If you can smell these odors at the sink area (and I know I have in many > cases) then particles are around the sink area. Afterall, smell is the > result of particles entering our noses...kind of a disgusting thought, but > true. Not true. The smell comes from volatile thiols--equivalent to alcohols, except that the carbon atom (which produces a sweet smell like that of ethanol) is replaced by a sulfur atom (which produces a vile, sewer-like odor). So what you are smelling is vaporized gases from the intestinal tract, not particles. These gases are non-toxic in the small amounts that one encounters in the area of toilets (high levels are toxic), and they don't cause disease. You may or may not inhale particles, but particles tend to settle out of the air very quickly, particularly in the sizes likely to be ejected from the GI tract, so that isn't much of a problem if you're at the sink. The smell from the thiols can reach far and wide, however, because they evaporate easily. And, as I've said, powerful smells are typical signs of a diet high in meat. Vegetarians and even people who eat only moderate amounts of meat produce far less of these unpleasant-smelling compounds (unless they eat a lot of vegetables like cauliflower, which also contains sulfur). SignatureTranspose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. >> Maybe this is working for you, but I have read that bathrooms are >> filthy because the spray from flushing spreads micro bits of >> contamination all over the sink and everywhere else...which is also >> a reason to not leave your toothbrush uncovered in your home >> bathroom unless you cover the toilet seat before flushing. > Except that the studies were poorly done. What they did is put petri > dishes with growth media on the floor and flushed the toilets. The > problem is that they didn't do anything to prevent bacteria from > other sources Another dubious assumption is that bacteria coming out that way is somehow more virulent than the ones coming out of the mouth. Predominant species in the bowels are best adopted to live off half-digested food, rather than be pathogenic. DZ > (like getting kicked up from the floor into the petri dishes, a trip > of about 1 inch). So the studies mean nothing. I really doubt that > that many bacteria and viruses get itno the air and over surfaces > higher than the bowl during flushing. > >> Maybe this is working for you, but I have read that bathrooms are > >> filthy because the spray from flushing spreads micro bits of [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > mouth. Predominant species in the bowels are best adopted to live off > half-digested food, rather than be pathogenic. So, telling someone to eat sh.t and die just makes your look retarded? Proton Soup (...) > Another dubious assumption is that bacteria coming out that way is > somehow more virulent than the ones coming out of the > mouth. Predominant species in the bowels are best adopted to live off > half-digested food, rather than be pathogenic. That is true of predominant species. However, there are many species, like some strains of E. coli that can be deadly. Plus, there are many bacteria, protazoans and viruses that are pathogenic and can cause serious illness, which is why we flush our stool in the first place. That is why sanitation is so important where there is a diaster, like an earthquake. Otherwise, infectious disease breaks out. So to suggest that fecal material doesn't carry potentially deadly organisms is stupid or ignorant. This also explains why they put sewage facilities downstream of water intakes, chlorinate water and chlorinate pools. > So, telling someone to eat sh.t and die just makes your look retarded? So does spelling "you" as "your." If eating sh.t were such a good idea, we wouldn't make it in the first place, at least not for disposal. Actually, I think the saying means: Eat, then sh.t, then die (as opposed to eat fecal material, then die). Happy New Year! Jeff Jeff > Proton Soup Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote: [...] First you misquote, then start an argument, and then lose focus and go on debating a point created by your imagination. While issues are 1) How likely secretions of a person with no infectious diseases are to contain pathogens of infectious diseases. 2) Which secretions are more pathogenic, to what degree, and why. Please share your knowledge. DZ > That is a good point. Also, I have come to suspect the drinking > fountain as a potential source of pathogens, too. Not a significant source, if the water supply is clean. > One point that nobody seems to have addressed is overtraining. > I have found that overtraining, lack of recovery, less than [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the difference between waking up the following day happy and > healthy or sniffling and achey. Only infectious agents can make you sniffling and achey. Avoid those, and you'll be fine. SignatureTranspose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. >From: Mxsmanic mxsmanic@hotmail.com >Cold weather doesn't cause you to become sick. You get sick when you >catch germs from someone else who is sick. That isnt true either. You get sick* whenever your primary defenses (WBC's etc.) fail to contain the bug. Then secondary defenses go into action such as fever and cough. Even then you arent really *sick* so to speak because your body is initiating healthy type responses. Of course you can go to your friendly neighborhood PCP who will usually be more than haoppy to drug you into oblivion. Peace > Hey, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > happening again? It's about 15 degrees F outside right now where I > live. Wash your hands frequently and don't touch your face. Going to the gym is not the cause. Getting exposed to a virus is. Jeff > I only go to the gym between semesters and after the last two times > I've gone I have gotten sick afterwards, after about 2 weeks of > regular attendance. The first time it was bronchitis, the second time > it was a cold. Any suggestions on how I can prevent this from > happening again? It's about 15 degrees F outside right now where I > live. I agree with all the people saying to wash your hands: if they aren't red and chapped you aren't doing it often enough. Bare minimum: after you go to the bathroom, immediately before you eat, after you sneeze (try to do it into the crook of your arm instead of your hand), as soon as you arrive in a new location, as you leave that location, and as soon as you arrive home. If you're already doing this, take a look at your technique. Do you get your thumbs? Are your fingernails clean? Are you using a dirty towel to dry off? Do you wash for more than a cursory 1/2 second? I've taken to carrying the water-less handwashing gel with me in the car and wearing gloves inside sometimes (like at the grocery store). I don't know if I'm unusually paranoid or just unusually clever. I make every person who walks into my house stop and wash their hands before they touch anything. So far my family of five (with four of us at four different schools in four different towns) hasn't even caught a cold this year. The other thing I'll point out is that you are typically quite exhausted when a semester ends, from staying up late studying for finals/finishing papers, etc. Make sure you catch up on your rest and get rehydrated and get some nutrients into you before you go back to the gym. You may just be depleted and prone to catching things. Dally >> I only go to the gym between semesters and after the last two times >> I've gone I have gotten sick afterwards, after about 2 weeks of [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > make every person who walks into my house stop and wash their hands > before they touch anything. Can you say obsessive-compulsive? ;-) >>I've taken to carrying the water-less handwashing gel with me in the >>car and wearing gloves inside sometimes (like at the grocery store). [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Can you say obsessive-compulsive? ;-) Hey, I let people wear shoes in my house. I've seen worse than me. Dally, clear-eyed and dry-nosed > >>I've taken to carrying the water-less handwashing gel with me in the > >>car and wearing gloves inside sometimes (like at the grocery store). [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Dally, clear-eyed and dry-nosed Making people take their shoes off in the house is not really an OCD issue, it's a matter of logic. About the only significant pathogen you are going to get from bare feet is fungus, which, is pretty much ubiquitous and you only succumb to it when you are either in an immune depressed state or have foot care issues such as poorly ventilated footware and/or sweaty feet. OTH, wearing shoes in the house can track in all kinds of exciting pathogens from saliva, feces, urine and other biological waste products that tend to exist outdoors, not to mention that shoes carry in abrasives and themselves are much more destructive to floors and floor coverings than bare feet. Of course, I have been in homes where I would rather wear my shoes, but that's another story. --TW Irritated, chapped skin is a great point of entry for all kinds of neat stuff. > Making people take their shoes off in the house is not really > an OCD issue, it's a matter of logic. It's just as much OCD as frequent hand-washing. > OTH, wearing shoes in the house can track in all kinds of > exciting pathogens from saliva, feces, urine and other biological > waste products that tend to exist outdoors ... The major source of all three of these is right in your own home, especially the bathroom. Do you walk in and out of the bathroom in bare feet? In any case, none of this will give you the flu. You get the flu from other people who have it, not from your own germs. SignatureTranspose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. >>> I've taken to carrying the water-less handwashing gel with me in the >>> car and wearing gloves inside sometimes (like at the grocery store). [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Hey, I let people wear shoes in my house. I've seen worse than me. I let adult guests wear shoes in my house. Kids, OTOH, get beat for even thinking about it... ~Mikelle~ ...only because I live in the country and have very pale carpeting, otherwise I wouldn't care >>> I only go to the gym between semesters and after the last two times >>> I've gone I have gotten sick afterwards, after about 2 weeks of [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Can you say obsessive-compulsive? ;-) OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE, OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE.... Yes. >>>> I only go to the gym between semesters and after the last two times >>>> I've gone I have gotten sick afterwards, after about 2 weeks of [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > Yes. You seem to be suffering from a pathological desire to please... Tell me about your mother. > I agree with all the people saying to wash your hands: if they aren't > red and chapped you aren't doing it often enough. Bare minimum: after > you go to the bathroom, immediately before you eat, after you sneeze > (try to do it into the crook of your arm instead of your hand), as soon > as you arrive in a new location, as you leave that location, and as soon > as you arrive home. Or, use the alcohol-based waterless cleaner on your hands... SignatureThe generation that used acid to escape reality Is now using antacid to deal with reality http://www.dwacon.com I love this philosophy. Let's not build up our immune systems, or anything.... -- Eric > I've taken to carrying the water-less handwashing gel with me in the car > and wearing gloves inside sometimes (like at the grocery store). I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > different schools in four different towns) hasn't even caught a cold > this year. > Hey, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > happening again? It's about 15 degrees F outside right now where I > live. I additon to the other suggestions, I don't know if your gym has a pool. I like to finish up with a swim in a chlorine filled pool, followed by a couple of minutes in the hot tub, followed by a long shower. Bill (...) > I additon to the other suggestions, I don't know if your gym has a pool. I > like to finish up with a swim in a chlorine filled pool, followed by a couple > of minutes in the hot tub, followed by a long shower. Gee. think about all the people who have bowel movements since their last shower before going into the pool. Some feces gets into the pool, even if they practice meticulus hygiene. To greatly reduce the risk of disease, you have to wash around the anus with soap and water before going into the pool. Now how many people do that? There have been a lot of outbreaks of diseases from this, espeically diarrhea. And not all the causes of diarrhea (especially cryptosporidium and giardia) are not killed by chlorine. In addition, if little kids swim in the pool, another word for the pool is the "urinal." (Of course, urine is sterile, so it is not that big of a deal.) And little kids are not known for their good hygeine after pooping, either. Jeff > Bill > Gee. think about all the people who have bowel movements since their last > shower before going into the pool. Some feces gets into the pool, even if [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > deal.) And little kids are not known for their good hygeine after pooping, > either. The consolation is that the human body's immune system is pretty good about dealing with small amounts of pathogens. It's really only when you get a good blast of them that an infectious disease can get a foothold and make you sick. In close quarters, the respiratory tract is a great vector for infectious diseases, and mouth, nose, and eyes work well, too. The rest is very well protected, in the absence of open wounds. So, wash your hands, stay away from people who appear to be sick, and that alone can help a great deal. SignatureTranspose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. > > Gee. think about all the people who have bowel movements since their last > > shower before going into the pool. Some feces gets into the pool, even if [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > you get a good blast of them that an infectious disease can get a > foothold and make you sick. Depends on the cause. For some gastrointestinal diseases, it only takes a few organisms. > In close quarters, the respiratory tract is > a great vector for infectious diseases, and mouth, nose, and eyes work [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > So, wash your hands, stay away from people who appear to be sick, and > that alone can help a great deal. Actually, unless you share body fluids (mostly nasals secretions and get them in your respiratory tract by rubbing your face or eyes), you aren't likely to get sick. Being near sick people doesn't matter that much for most diseases. Jeff >The consolation is that the human body's immune system is pretty good >about dealing with small amounts of pathogens. It's really only when [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >So, wash your hands, stay away from people who appear to be sick, and >that alone can help a great deal. At the risk of looking like some kind of nut, may I suggest that getting exposed to all the cold viruses in your area while you're young and healthy and well able to fight them off isn't such a bad idea? Eventually you'll have immunity to all of them and stop getting colds, long before you're old and feeble and colds are a big problem for you. This probably applies to a lot of gastrointestinal bugs, too. And while you're at it, get a flu shot every year, so you'll eventually be exposed to most of the important strains. The flu pandemic of 1918-20 killed mostly young people, perhaps because older ones had been exposed to similar strains in the past. I haven't caught a cold in decades, except when my husband brings one back from an international conference, and not usually then. I use public transit, so it isn't like I don't get exposure to whatever is going around. Everybody in the office gets sick but me. Of course, if you're a health care worker, you'd be endangering your patients, so this wouldn't be the best advice. So to generalize from a sample of one, give your immune system a good education, make it work for a living, invest in your future health. Relax about all those evil cold viruses. Get exposed to enough cold viruses when you're 23 and you won't get colds when you're too old to fight them off. >> The consolation is that the human body's immune system is pretty good >> about dealing with small amounts of pathogens. It's really only when [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > viruses when you're 23 and you won't get colds when you're too old to > fight them off. I don't think you're a nut...use it or lose it, I always say...but I'm not sure about the mass effects if everyone practiced this philosophy. I'm thinking that once everyone became immune to all the cold/flu strains presently in existence, said strains would just mutate into something bigger and badder. It's already a major concern among scientists that, with all of our antibiotics and vaccines, we are simply promoting the development of SuperViruses (dunh-da-da-dunh). It doesn't matter how tough you are...there's always gonna be somebody/something that's tougher. ~Mikelle~ SignatureThe main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live. > I'm > thinking that once everyone became immune to all the cold/flu strains [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > SuperViruses (dunh-da-da-dunh). It doesn't matter how tough you > are...there's always gonna be somebody/something that's tougher. Sounds like "germ warfare" to me. But seriously, I think the concept of "meeting all the germs" is silly: there are always more germs. You really don't catch as many colds as there are cold germs. Sometimes it's okay to avoid the plague like the plague. Dally >> I'm >> thinking that once everyone became immune to all the cold/flu strains [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Dally Agreed...to a point. I take precautions to prevent illness, but it's not something I'm phobic about...if I get sick, I get sick. No big deal. That being said, I don't get sick very often...though now I probably will just cuz I said I don't. SignatureThe main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live. >I don't think you're a nut...use it or lose it, I always say...but I'm not >sure about the mass effects if everyone practiced this philosophy. I'm >thinking that once everyone became immune to all the cold/flu strains >presently in existence, said strains would just mutate into something bigger >and badder. Don't get colds and flu confused. Influenza is very contagious, and new strains can circle the world in less than a year. While colds are caused by many different strains of several families of viruses, there tends to be a particular group associated with a geographic area. Influenza forms new strains frequently and rapidly, by a sort of natural form of recombinant DNA technology, combining forms from swine and migratory birds with human strains to produce new ones. Cold viruses have to mutate by the old, slow way of random transcription errors, and are much more stable, but there are a lot of different ones around all the time. Most people notice that they get fewer colds once they get well into their thirties, unless they move to another city, where they encounter a different set of cold viruses. Note also that you don't have to develop the symptoms of a cold to develop resistance to that virus. Viruses don't usually mutate into "bigger and badder". If anything, they mutate into milder and more contagious, which increases their Darwinian fitness. (Technically, mutations which produce more contagious strains will out-compete ones which don't. The ideal cold virus would have you sneezing like crazy but feeling great so you go out and spread it!) When you encounter a mutated form of a cold virus you've already been exposed to, you probably have enough antibodies against the non-mutated antigens to have an advantage to fighting it off, anyway. Even flu works this way. Flu viruses have several antigens, and new strains usually include some that have been around for a while. >It's already a major concern among scientists that, with all of >our antibiotics and vaccines, we are simply promoting the development of >SuperViruses (dunh-da-da-dunh). Well, no. Antibiotics are of no use against viruses, and antibiotic resistant bacteria are generally no more virulent than susceptible strains. If you stop hitting them with the antibiotic they are resistant to, ones that lose the resistance will outcompete the resistant ones, because resistance is costly metabolically. As for vaccines, they also don't promote "superviruses". Smallpox will never have a chance to develop new strains, and if people keep vaccinating, neither will polio or measles. Actually any infectious disease that you can only get once (smallpox, chickenpox, measles and many others) generally don't have new strains, or one case or set of immunizations wouldn't protect you. >It doesn't matter how tough you >are...there's always gonna be somebody/something that's tougher. Few people in the developed world die of infectious diseases, unless they are already very ill with something else. That's why HIV/AIDS came as such a shock - young people were dying of a virus disease, something that hadn't been seen for several generations. You've got to die of something. In the developed world, you will likely be in your eighties, and die of cancer, heart disease or Alzheimers. Once you're near death's door, flu or pneumonia may carry you through it. > If you stop hitting them with the antibiotic they are > resistant to, ones that lose the resistance will outcompete the > resistant ones, because resistance is costly metabolically. Why? SignatureTranspose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. >> If you stop hitting them with the antibiotic they are >> resistant to, ones that lose the resistance will outcompete the >> resistant ones, because resistance is costly metabolically. > >Why? Because bacteria that aren't using resources to synthesize e.g. penicillinase can use them for growth and reproduction. Empirically, if you grow bacteria resistant to some antibiotic in the absence of that antibiotic, the ones that lose resistance will outgrow the ones that don't, and after n generations most of the population will be susceptible again. Of course, if the population is exposed to the antibiotic again, any bacteria that retain resistance will rapidly outcompete the susceptible. Genes for antibiotic resistance are often carried on plasmids in bacteria, so are easier to lose (and gain) than genes in the bacterial chromosome. >> I don't think you're a nut...use it or lose it, I always say...but >> I'm not sure about the mass effects if everyone practiced this [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > caused by many different strains of several families of viruses, there > tends to be a particular group associated with a geographic area. So we're okay as long as we never go anywhere? That may work for some, but I was born on the backseat of a Greyhound bus. > Influenza forms new strains frequently and rapidly, by a sort of > natural form of recombinant DNA technology, combining forms from swine > and migratory birds with human strains to produce new ones. Cold > viruses have to mutate by the old, slow way of random transcription > errors, and are much more stable, but there are a lot of different > ones around all the time. This only makes a difference if cold viruses mutate so slowly that they are unable to complete a change within a normal human lifespan. Methinks they are much faster than that... > Most people notice that they get fewer colds once they get well into > their thirties, unless they move to another city, where they encounter > a different set of cold viruses. ...or they pick a friend up at the airport, or family comes to visit from out of town, or they get sneezed on by a tourist at Wal-Mart, or, or, or.... The world is a much smaller place than it used to be, and getting smaller all the time. > Note also that you don't have to > develop the symptoms of a cold to develop resistance to that virus. Note that contracting and overcoming a virus doesn't guarantee immunity. > Viruses don't usually mutate into "bigger and badder". If anything, > they mutate into milder and more contagious, which increases their [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > antigens, and new strains usually include some that have been around > for a while. So killing a horny toad gives me an advantage over a crocodile? >> It's already a major concern among scientists that, with all of >> our antibiotics and vaccines, we are simply promoting the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > resistant bacteria are generally no more virulent than susceptible > strains. That doesn't negate my point, but, yes...antibiotics are to bacteria as vaccines are to viruses. Excuse me for over-generalizing. I guess I should have said SuperGerms. Better? > If you stop hitting them with the antibiotic they are > resistant to, ones that lose the resistance will outcompete the > resistant ones, because resistance is costly metabolically. I believe someone already asked this question, but...why is resistance costly metabolically? > As for vaccines, they also don't promote "superviruses". Smallpox > will never have a chance to develop new strains, and if people keep > vaccinating, neither will polio or measles. Actually any infectious > disease that you can only get once (smallpox, chickenpox, measles and > many others) generally don't have new strains, or one case or set of > immunizations wouldn't protect you. This might be a good point, except for the fact that one case or set of immunizations *doesn't* protect you, nor does contracting a virus guarantee future immunity. Despite being properly vaccinated, I have contracted both rubeola *and* rubella (measles and German measles), and I know quite a few people who have had chickenpox more than once. >> It doesn't matter how tough you >> are...there's always gonna be somebody/something that's tougher. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > came as such a shock - young people were dying of a virus disease, > something that hadn't been seen for several generations. And I'm sure there's more where that came from. > You've got to die of something. In the developed world, you will > likely be in your eighties, and die of cancer, heart disease or > Alzheimers. All of which qualify as something tougher. > Once you're near death's door, flu or pneumonia may > carry you through it. Or you can live fast, die young, and leave a good-looking corpse. ;-) I do hope your philosophy works for you. ~Mikelle~ SignatureThe main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live. (...) > Most people notice that they get fewer colds once they get well into > their thirties, unless they move to another city, where they encounter > a different set of cold viruses. Note also that you don't have to > develop the symptoms of a cold to develop resistance to that virus. If the moving to different cities thing were true, every time I visit my brother on the other US coast, I would get sick. Plus, I have moved to different cities 4 times (100-400 mi away), and never seen an increase in the number of colds when I moved. The cold viruses move around all over the place. If you don't beleive me, look at how the influenza virus and the rotavirus (a childhood diarrrhea virus) and RSV (a respiratory virus that causes severe wheezing in some kids) moves around the country every year. (...) >You've got to die of something. In the developed world, you will > likely be in your eighties, and die of cancer, heart disease or > Alzheimers. Once you're near death's door, flu or pneumonia may > carry you through it. Actually, influenza, menigitis, measles, rotavirus, etc., have carried many otherwise healthy people through death's door. And, if you have a chronic illness, is your life less valuable than if you don't? In the US, the median age of death is something like 75. This means less than 1/2 the people don't make it to 80. So in the US, most likely, you will spend your 80s (and beyound) in the grave. Jeff > At the risk of looking like some kind of nut, may I suggest that > getting exposed to all the cold viruses in your area while you're young > and healthy and well able to fight them off isn't such a bad idea? It doesn't make you look like a nut, but I don't think it's a very good idea, just the same. Cold and flu viruses mutate and travel. There are hundreds of them. You'd have to be constantly sick for years to go through them all, and by then, there'd be plenty of new strains, so you'd never finish. > Eventually you'll have immunity to all of them and stop getting colds, > long before you're old and feeble and colds are a big problem for you. You won't be immune to mutations, and there are plenty of those. SignatureTranspose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. > Hey, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > happening again? It's about 15 degrees F outside right now where I > live. Is the gym clean? I mean the AC/Heater system cleam, Carpet area clean? > Peeps O'Donnell wrote... >> Hey, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Is the gym clean? I mean the AC/Heater system cleam, Carpet > area clean? In the absence of actual environmental sampling, the safe presumption is no. Signature-Wayne You might consider wearing a light pair of gloves. Not that it will stop germs, but keep from unconsciously touching your face with your hands when you work out. A lot germs are passed by skin-metal-skin contact. |
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