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Medical Forum / General / General / May 2008why does God allow disease etc.
From: "Matthew Slyman" <ma...@hermes.cam.ac.uk> Subject: Re: why does God allow disease etc. Date: 1998/04/02 Newsgroups: alt.religion.mormon.fellowship God for the most part lets nature run its course. This means; because of the existence of good germs, there might arise bad germs too. Allowing them to arise... In his compassion for us; God gives us instruction from the prophets to help the righteous avoid these things. For example, the Word of Wisdom, Noah being instructed in a dream to build the Ark, Lehi being instructed likewise to leave Jerusalem before it being sacked by the Babylonians... In his compassion he also delegates His divine authority to us to deal with these things. This is called the "Priesthood". If it were not for all these illnesses and natural disasters, there would be little opportunity for us to use this tool which he has given to us; and we would not grow spiritually. If there were not trials and setbacks in this life, there would be little need for exercising faith in our God, and it would be no test. We came to earth to: (i) Be tested, (ii) Gain physical bodies, (iii) Grow spiritually through tests of character; and the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. Those germs are there for our good. Sometimes they overcome us and even kill us, but this is only a temporary victory for "Death" - our families can be reunited and our bodies will be resurrected without corruption. It is to serve our longer term good that He allows these things to happen to us. When we go camping in the hills with virtually nothing but ourselves, a tent, the sky above us; and then we come home again, we really appreciate a nice warm bed, shower, house... Without the illness; we could never appreciate the blessing of good health. Without sadness and pain, ignorance and darkness; there is not happiness and comfort, knowledge and light. (See also 2 Nephi 2:) Eventually the earth will be perfected and there will be no more disease and suffering, earthquakes or hurricanes; it will become as heaven. We should act as stewards over what God has blessed us with, and He will give us stewardship in that heaven. Matthew Slyman . . -- > From: "Matthew Slyman" <ma...@hermes.cam.ac.uk> > Subject: Re: why does God allow disease etc. [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > act as stewards over what God has blessed us with, and He will give us > stewardship in that heaven. ... eye don't really know but i think it was something you did b ps; were you born a.s first? Because he doesnt exist > We came to earth to: > (i) Be tested, > (ii) Gain physical bodies, > (iii) Grow spiritually through tests of character; and the > inspiration of the Holy Ghost. (iv) carry a dildo and a bottle of baby oil and hang out with boys Ken Johnson p.s. What is it that drives Christians to post this sort of tripe? > p.s. What is it that drives Christians to post this sort of tripe? Demonic possession. euclid Truly >> p.s. What is it that drives Christians to post this sort of tripe? > > Demonic possession. > > euclid > Truly That's okay. Pagans are driven by eudaemonic possession. -- Les Cargill >>> p.s. What is it that drives Christians to post this sort of tripe? ... a keyboard and a lot of free time b Clutch Cargo <ccargo@cfl.rr.com> wrote: > > Ken-Jo <ken-jo@excite.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > That's ok. Pagans drive by eudaemonic possession. There Is No Death There is no death. The stars go down To rise upon another shore, And bright in heaven's jeweled crown They shine forevermore. There is no death. The forest leaves Convert to life the viewless air; The rocks disorganize to feed The hungry moss they bear. There is no death. The dust we tread Shall change beneath the summer showers To golden grain or mellow fruit, Or rainbow tinted flowers. There is no death. The leaves may fall, The flowers may fade and pass away-- They only wait through wintry hours The warm, sweet breath of May. There is no death, although we grieve When beautiful familiar forms That we have learned to love are torn From our embracing arms. Although with bowed and breaking heart. With sable garb and silent tread, We bear their senseless dust to rest, And say that they are dead-- They are not dead. They have but passed Beyond the mists that blind us here, Into the new and larger life Of that serener sphere. They have but dropped their robe of clay To put a shining raiment on; They have not wandered far away, They are not "lost" or "gone." Though unseen to the mortal eye, They still are here and love us yet; The dear ones they have left behind They never do forget. Sometimes upon our fevered brow We feel their touch, a breath of balm: Our spirit sees them, and our hearts Grow comforted and calm. Yes, ever near us, though unseen, Our dear, immortal spirits tread-- For all God's boundless Universe Is Life--there are no dead. -- John McCreery . . -- On May 12, 11:06 am, "(David P.)" <imb...@mindspring.com> wrote: There Is No Death << ??? Most everyone has witnessed this .. This is wrong .. Death .. happens .. in .. I might add .. varying degrees of .. violence. Quite the poem .. Are you a .. mystic .. ? Is that what it's supposed to mean .. ? Give us a bit of your background .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > Clutch Cargo <cca...@cfl.rr.com> wrote: > > > Ken-Jo <ken...@excite.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > . > -- > There is no death. The stars go down > To rise upon another shore, > And bright in heaven's jeweled crown > They shine forevermore. Until they go supernova and leave a blackhole in their place. euclid Does it help to think of a blackhole as a zombie star? > > There is no death. The stars go down > > To rise upon another shore, > > And bright in heaven's jeweled crown > > They shine forevermore. > > Until they go supernova and leave a blackhole in their place. only for massive stars main sequence starts like ours usually become white dwarfs > Does it help to think of a blackhole as a zombie star? sucking brains out of the universe arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins sacramento - political pigsty of the western world or a babys arm holding an apple On May 7, 12:41 am, "(David P.)" <imb...@mindspring.com> wrote:why does God allow disease << What would be your .. move. In HIs .. place. As an analogy. WHAT would YOU .. do .. ? Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > From: "Matthew Slyman" <ma...@hermes.cam.ac.uk> > Subject: Re: why does God allow disease etc. [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > . > -- > > why does God allow disease << > > What would be your .. move. > In HIs .. place. > As an analogy. > WHAT would YOU .. do .. ? He allows disease because the big picture *AIN'T* _JUST US_, _RIGHT NOW_! There are FUTURE GENERATIONS in the picture, too! . . -- On May 12, 4:48 pm, "(David P.)" <imb...@mindspring.com> wrote:He allows disease because the big picture *AIN'T* _JUST US_, _RIGHT NOW_! There are FUTURE GENERATIONS in the picture, too! << So it's population control ..? Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > > > why does God allow disease << > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > . > -- > > He allows disease because the big picture > > *AIN'T* _JUST US_, _RIGHT NOW_! There are > > FUTURE GENERATIONS in the picture, too! > > So it's population control ..? Limited longevity ..? . . -- Limited longevity ..? << I take it then your .. 'take' on .. 'it' / "why disease" .. is .. "I'm really not sure" .. Am I right .. ? How about this scenario. Two brothers .. fathered by the same man .. loved as much .. no less than each other BY the .. father. One decides he is Hannibal Lechter. He decides to kill and eat his brother. He has been told repeatedly this is wrong. He does it anyway. The problem being this killing and eating of his brother is what brings disease into the world. Disease not brought BY the father but by killing and eating your brother. Do you DESERVE to have a very painful disease as payment for killing and eating your brother? Is it a righteous .. repayment .. for this indiscretion .. ? Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > > > He allows disease because the big picture > > > *AIN'T* _JUST US_, _RIGHT NOW_! There are [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > . > -- On May 13, 4:15 am, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote: Is it a righteous .. repayment .. for this indiscretion .. ? << I forgot the amendment .. Actually not really an amendment .. just forgot the .. disclosure .. But you have to actually read the whole document and you have to learn the meaning of many words in order to understand the document to actually find this disclosure. Most people hire a lawyer to read this contract because it is really very hard to understand unless one is well read. The disclosure being .. "WHEN this indiscretion IS recognized and corrected the disease will be forgiven." Now here is where interpretation / meaning of words / lawyer comes in. I think "forgiven" means the disease will be cured. In MY hypothesis IS the disease cured .. ? Yes .. In anyone elses hypothesis is the disease cured ? No .. I rest my case. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > Limited longevity ..? << > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > - Show quoted text - On May 13, 5:47 am, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote:In MY hypothesis IS the disease cured .. ? Yes .. << "NAFLD may be present to some extent in just about everybody and phlebotomy offers a safe and efficient therapy" American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 87, No. 5, 1374-1383, May 2008 © 2008 American Society for Nutrition -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ORIGINAL RESEARCH COMMUNICATION Pathways underlying iron accumulation in human nonalcoholic fatty liver disease1,2,3 Elmar Aigner, Igor Theurl, Milan Theurl, Dieter Lederer, Heike Haufe, Otto Dietze, Michael Strasser, Christian Datz and Guenter Weiss 1 From the Department of Internal Medicine, General Hospital Oberndorf, Oberndorf, Austria (EA, DL, and CD); the Department of General Internal Medicine, Department of Immunology and Infectious Diseases, Medical University of Innsbruck, Austria (IT, MT, and GW); the Department of Pathology (HH and OD) and the First Department of Medicine (MS), Paracelsus Private Medical University Salzburg, Austria Background: Mild iron overload is frequently observed in nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD). Objective: We aimed to study putative pathways underlying iron accumulation in NAFLD. Design: Hepatic and duodenal expression of critical iron molecules in NAFLD patients with (n = 32) and without (n = 29) iron overload, hereditary hemochromatosis (n = 10), and controls (n = 20) were investigated. Phlebotomy treatment was performed in 14 NAFLD patients. Results: The hepatic expressions of the iron-export protein ferroportin-1 (FP-1) and of the iron-sensing molecule hemojuvelin (HJV) were significantly lower in NAFLD patients. The mRNA expression of the iron-regulatory peptide hepcidin was increased in NAFLD patients with iron overload, which was paralleled by low duodenal FP-1 expression. Hepatic mRNA and serum protein concentrations of tumor necrosis factor- (TNF-) were increased in NAFLD patients and were inversely correlated with both liver FP-1 and HJV mRNA and positively associated with body mass index and hepatic hepcidin mRNA. Accordingly, TNF- inhibited the FP-1 and HJV mRNA formation in HepG2 cells. Phlebotomy treatment of NALFD patients reduced serum ferritin, transferrin saturation, and TNF- concentrations and improved liver function tests. Conclusions: Iron accumulation in NAFLD may result from an impaired iron export due to down-regulation of FP1 and ineffective hepatic iron sensing, as indicated by low HJV expression. TNF- appears to play a role in exerting these regulatory changes. Increased hepcidin formation in iron-overloaded NAFLD patients, however, results in decreased duodenal FP-1 expression, whereas a reduction in liver FP-1 may perpetuate hepatic iron retention. Phlebotomy offers a safe and efficient therapy for these metabolic disturbances. ----------- NAFLD may be present to some extent in "just about everybody." http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/26/4/1297 Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On May 13, 4:15 am, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote: Is it > a righteous .. repayment .. for this indiscretion .. ? << [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] > > - Show quoted text - > Limited longevity ..? << > > then your 'take' is "I'm really not sure"? It would be more equitable having each individual fight the flu, rather than having armies fight each other over land, food, fuel, clean air & clean water. By stopping the suppression of influenza, everyone would be on the front lines, instead of just a few good men! . . -- On May 13, 8:44 pm, "(David P.)" <imb...@mindspring.com> wrote: It would be more equitable having each individual fight the flu, rather than having armies fight << I kinda wonder whether a person either having a disease or they "will go to war" .. is kinda a roll of the dice .. ? You have alot more options than going to war. On May 13, 8:44 pm, "(David P.)" <imb...@mindspring.com> wrote: armies fight each other over land, food, fuel, clean air & clean water << I might be tempted to go to war over all of the above .. too. I've seen the other side .. and it is not easy .. it is very .. hard. On May 13, 8:44 pm, "(David P.)" <imb...@mindspring.com> wrote: By stopping the suppression of influenza, everyone would be on the front lines, instead of just a few good men! << Again .. there are more options IF a person is not sick than just going to war .. Sick encompasses alot more than a simple heavy cold .. too. What about .. those .. ? Remember YOU are the .. dad. EVERYONE on Earth is supposed to be His .. **only** .. child. Now as a .. dad .. WHAT could your son or daughter have .. done .. to **deserve** .. to die in some ditch like some piece of trash .. of a disease .. Would have to be something pretty .. bad .. Don't you think .. ? Deserves to die like a slug because other people dig going to war .. ? Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > > Limited longevity ..? << > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > . > -- On May 13, 4:15 am, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote:Do you DESERVE to have a very painful disease as payment for killing and eating your brother? << How about shortening the life of those that .. kill .. ? "Restriction of iron may have positive effects on health in general and aging in particular" Galaris D, Mantzaris M, Amorgianiotis C Oxidative stress and aging: the potential role of iron. [Journal Article] Hormones (Athens) 2008 Apr-Jun; 7(2):114-22. According to the free radical theory of aging proposed by Denham Harman more than 50 years ago, oxidatively modified cellular components accumulate continuously in the cells during the organism's lifespan leading to progressive decline of cellular functions. Since then, it has been shown that proteins, lipids, nucleic acids and other cell components undergo reversible and/or irreversible oxidative modifications during aging. Moreover, oxidized cell components can undergo further oxidative modifications leading to formation of products that cell degradation systems are incapable of removing. Accumulation of such non-degradable aggregates further inhibits the functionality of degradation systems, thus aggravating the effects and leading to a vicious cycle. In this presentation, we propose that the availability of intracellular iron in its redox active form (labile iron) represents the main catalyst that mediates extensive oxidative modifications of cellular components and ultimately leads to their accumulation and consequent cellular dysfunction. It is tempting to speculate that regulated restriction of labile iron may have positive effects on health in general and aging in particular. Hormones (Athens, Greece) [Hormones (Athens)] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > Limited longevity ..? << > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > - Show quoted text - > From: "Matthew Slyman" <ma...@hermes.cam.ac.uk> > Subject: Re: why does God allow disease etc. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > of the > existence of good germs, there might arise bad germs too. Germs were created for the ineducable. For those with higher forms of intelligence, robots were soon to be developed. For those with civilizations more advanced than Noah flood-forecasting, GPS was soon to be. For those imaginations that transcend sheepdip,, microwave ovens were soon to be. And for those with post 3000 BC, articulated verbs, Lasers were also soon to be. > Allowing them to arise... > In his compassion for us; God gives us instruction from the prophets [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > . > --
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