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Medical Forum / General / General / December 2007Chemotherapy Effective Against Cancer, But At What Cost?
http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html Chemotherapy Effective Against Cancer, But At What Cost? > http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html > > Chemotherapy Effective Against Cancer, But At What Cost? No, Jan, it is NOT effective against cancer, and never has been... Please inform yourself about this matter. Yuri. Yuri Kuchinsky -- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku "Modern medicine" may well be defined as "the experimental study of what happens when poisonous chemicals are placed into malnourished human bodies." -- A. Saul, Contributing Editor, Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine -- http://www.orthomed.org >> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Yuri. Please explain why about 3/4 of kids with cancer and more than 1/2 of adults with cancer are cured. Compared with about 0% without modern treatment. Get your facts strait before you open your laptop. Jeff > Yuri Kuchinsky -- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku > > "Modern medicine" may well be defined as "the experimental study of what > happens when poisonous chemicals are placed into malnourished human > bodies." -- A. Saul, Contributing Editor, Journal of Orthomolecular > Medicine -- http://www.orthomed.org > Please explain why about 3/4 of kids with cancer and more than 1/2 of > adults with cancer are cured. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Jeff It wouldn't be usenet. The force of Futility is strong... Steve >> Yuri Kuchinsky -- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku >> >> "Modern medicine" may well be defined as "the experimental study of >> what happens when poisonous chemicals are placed into malnourished >> human bodies." -- A. Saul, Contributing Editor, Journal of >> Orthomolecular Medicine -- http://www.orthomed.org >>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Please explain why about 3/4 of kids with cancer and more than 1/2 of > adults with cancer are cured. Why do you think this is because of chemotherapy? > Compared with about 0% without modern treatment. This is not true. > Get your facts strait before you open your laptop. > > Jeff Please provide a peer-reviewed published study that has proven the effectiveness of chemotherapy using standard scientific protocols. There's no such study. Yuri. Yuri Kuchinsky -- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku "The great tragedy of science -- a beautiful hypothesis slain by an ugly fact." -- Thomas Huxley >>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Why do you think this is because of chemotherapy? Chemotherapy, radiotherapy, and surgery have all helped increase the cure rate of various cancers. >> Compared with about 0% without modern treatment. > > This is not true. Back your claim please. In other words, show us that there is a significant cure rate without modern treatment. Real evidence, please. Jeff >> Get your facts strait before you open your laptop. >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > "The great tragedy of science -- a beautiful hypothesis slain > by an ugly fact." -- Thomas Huxley >>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >> "The great tragedy of science -- a beautiful hypothesis slain >> by an ugly fact." -- Thomas Huxley Well...now, it is Jeff who harps about peer-reviewed. Now when the table is turned he cannot provide. Thus making him a hypocrite, plus a liar about his fake names. >>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >>> "The great tragedy of science -- a beautiful hypothesis slain >>> by an ugly fact." -- Thomas Huxley > Well...now, it is Jeff who harps about peer-reviewed. > Now when the table is turned he cannot provide. Thus making him a > hypocrite, plus a liar about his fake names. That's right, Jan. He cannot provide any scientific proof that chemotherapy is effective because no such proof exists. Chemotherapy is a big hoax. Yuri. Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku "As a chemist trained to interpret data, it is incromprehensible to me that physicians can ignore the clear evidence that chemotherapy does much, much more harm than good." -- Alan Nixon, Ph.D., Past President, American Chemical Society. >>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > That's right, Jan. He cannot provide any scientific proof that chemotherapy > is effective because no such proof exists. Chemotherapy is a big hoax. He's one from Georgia. You can find others at www.pubmed.gov. You can find cancer survival statistics for any type of cancer. Please note that the 86% 5-year survival (essentially, a cure) for kids with ALL is from chemotherapy and radiation only (except for surgery to implant an IV catheter, so that patients don't have to be stuck as often). Howell DL, Ward KC, Austin HD, Young JL, Woods WG. Department of Pediatrics, Rollins School of Public Health, Emory University, Atlanta, GA, USA. Della.Howell@lackland.af.mil PURPOSE: There have been concerns among pediatric oncologists that adolescent and minority patients are not getting adequate access to care. This study examines access to cancer care and survival outcomes based on age, race, and type of cancer in patients in Georgia. PATIENTS AND METHODS: We performed a retrospective review of 1,751 cancer patients aged 0 to 19 years, diagnosed between 1998 and 2002, in the Georgia Comprehensive Cancer Registry, which identified patients who were treated at one of five Georgia pediatric cancer centers (Children's Oncology Group [COG] members) at any point in their treatment. Data were further analyzed for age at diagnosis, race, county of residence, and 5-year survival. RESULTS: Eighty-seven percent of patients aged 0 to 14 years and 36% of those aged 15 to 19 years were treated at a COG institution. Twenty-five percent of all patients were of African descent, with 75.4% of black versus 70.3% of white patients (age 0 to 19 years) treated at a COG institution (P < .01); 97.1% of other minorities were treated at a COG institution (P < .05). The 5-year actuarial survival rates for more pediatric-specific cancers were significantly lower in all leukemias (75.1% v 46.4%; P = .0015), and acute lymphoblastic leukemia specifically (86.3% v 53.3%; P < .05) for patients not treated at a COG institution. Actuarial survival rates were much lower for blacks than whites in all cancers as a whole (70% v 82%; P < .001) and for many specific subtypes. CONCLUSION: Adolescent-aged patients are less likely to be referred to a COG institution, potentially exposing them to worse outcomes in some cancer subtypes. Reassuringly, minority populations are receiving adequate access to pediatric cancer care; unfortunately their survival rates are lower. PMID: 17925556 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] > Yuri. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > more harm than good." -- Alan Nixon, Ph.D., Past President, American > Chemical Society. >>>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > > PMID: 17925556 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] How come you forgot to give us the title of this article, Jeff? What a strange omission... If this is really your best proof that chemo is effective, how come it's not in the title? Instead, the title is, "Access to Pediatric Cancer Care by Age, Race, and Diagnosis, and Outcomes of Cancer Treatment in Pediatric and Adolescent Patients in the State of Georgia" With "proof" like this coming from you, now I KNOW that chemo is a hoax! :( Duh! Yuri. Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku "...chemotherapy's success record is dismal. It can achieve remissions in about 7% of all human cancers; for an additional 15% of cases, survival can be "prolonged" beyond the point at which death would be expected without treatment. This type of survival is not the same as a cure or even restored quality of life." -- John Diamond, M.D. >>>>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > > What a strange omission... I made a mistake during my cutting and pasting. Forgive me, please. the title is: Access to pediatric cancer care by age, race, and diagnosis, and outcomes of cancer treatment in pediatric and adolescent patients in the state of Georgia. <crap deleted> Jeff >>>>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] > > With "proof" like this coming from you, now I KNOW that chemo is a hoax! :( Once again you prove that you hate living children. >>>>>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > > Once again you prove that you hate living children. There's the Mark Probert logic. As well as a accusation famous from the ilk gang. >>>>>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > > Once again you prove that you hate living children. I'm just looking for proof that chemo is effective. Do you have any such proof? Yuri. Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku "As a chemist trained to interpret data, it is incromprehensible to me that physicians can ignore the clear evidence that chemotherapy does much, much more harm than good." -- Alan Nixon, Ph.D., Past President, American Chemical Society. >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] > > Do you have any such proof? It has been posted. You reject it as it proves you wrong. Nothing I post can fix your mind. >> I'm just looking for proof that chemo is effective. >> >> Do you have any such proof? > > It has been posted. I don't think so. > You reject it as it proves you wrong. Nothing I post can fix your mind. Yuri. Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku "As a chemist trained to interpret data, it is incromprehensible to me that physicians can ignore the clear evidence that chemotherapy does much, much more harm than good." -- Alan Nixon, Ph.D., Past President, American Chemical Society. >>> I'm just looking for proof that chemo is effective. >>> >>> Do you have any such proof? >> It has been posted. > > I don't think so. I do know so. Go find it. I posted it, and you rejected it out of hand. Nice to see that you are now proving that your mind is so closed you do not even bother reading anything that someone who disagrees with you may post. >> You reject it as it proves you wrong. Nothing I post can fix your mind. >>>> I'm just looking for proof that chemo is effective. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > not even bother reading anything that someone who disagrees with you may > post. Proof Please. When are where do you provide it? >>> You reject it as it proves you wrong. Nothing I post can fix your mind. Get a new line, Mark. Yours are worn out. >>>> I'm just looking for proof that chemo is effective. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > not even bother reading anything that someone who disagrees with you may > post. Let's see your evidence that chemo is effective against cancer. Where is it? Yuri. Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku "As a chemist trained to interpret data, it is incromprehensible to me that physicians can ignore the clear evidence that chemotherapy does much, much more harm than good." -- Alan Nixon, Ph.D., Past President, American Chemical Society. >>>>> I'm just looking for proof that chemo is effective. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Where is it? Some was posted, you rejected it. Posting proof to you is a waste of time. You ignore anything that disproves your blatherings. >>>>>> I'm just looking for proof that chemo is effective. >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Some was posted, Where is it? > Posting proof to you is a waste of time. Oh, goody. Let us see you stop. >>>>> I'm just looking for proof that chemo is effective. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Where is it? Please get your head out of your rectum so that you can read whatis posted. Find it yourself > Please get your head out of your rectum so that you can read whatis > posted. > > Find it yourself I am surprised that anyone would ask this. >> Please get your head out of your rectum so that you can read whatis >> posted. >> >> Find it yourself > >I am surprised that anyone would ask this. Don't be. Yuri is not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, and is also emotionally incapable of believing in most of conventional medicine. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "Saddam Hussein was a bad man, connected with some incredibly dangerous people: Cheney, Rumsfeld, George Galloway." -- Marcus Brigstocke >> Please get your head out of your rectum so that you can read whatis >> posted. >> >> Find it yourself > > I am surprised that anyone would ask this. Don't be. Anti-RealMedicine sociopaths, like Yuri, play this game of pretending that the information does not exist, or that something has not been studied, etc. When presented with the information, they they whine that it is "tainted" because it from "organized medicine", or "BigPharma" or some other bogeyman conspiracy. They do this because they hate living children. >>> I'm just looking for proof that chemo is effective. >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I don't think so. Yuri, Yuri. You have no evidence that it hasn't been. Therefore you should, by your own posted reasoning, accept that it has. | Bogus as it might seem, people, this really is a deliverable | | e-mail address. Of course, there isn't REALLY a lumber cartel. | | There isn't really a Santa Claus, but try www.santaclaus.com. | +--------------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> --------------+ <..> > I'm just looking for proof that chemo is effective. > > Do you have any such proof? > > Yuri. The proof is easy to find. Pick any type of cancer where chemotherapy is used. Then go to pubmed.gov. In the search box, type in the name of the cancer, chemotherapy and effectiveness. You will find many results for each type of cancer. You can also go to a medical library and look for a book by a guy with the name Vincent T. Devita called "Cancer Principles and Practice of Oncology." It is an outstanding textbook, with references for each type of cancer. However, I am not going to waste my time providing you with evidence that anyone with a functioning brain and internet connection can find. If you can't find it, I am sure it is not problem with your internet connection. Jeff > <..> > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Jeff So, in other words, you have no proof that chemo is effective... Yuri. Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku "As a chemist trained to interpret data, it is incromprehensible to me that physicians can ignore the clear evidence that chemotherapy does much, much more harm than good." -- Alan Nixon, Ph.D., Past President, American Chemical Society. >> <..> >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > So, in other words, you have no proof that chemo is effective... No, rocks for brains. Some proof was posted, you ignored it. You need to do your own homework. However, I do not expect you to do so, as your mind is closed. >>> <..> >>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > do your own homework. However, I do not expect you to do so, as your mind > is closed. Typical from Mark. The *gang* has no proof so they personally insult. >>>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 87 lines] >> much, much more harm than good." -- Alan Nixon, Ph.D., Past President, >> American Chemical Society. So Jeff, how many of those "cures" 5 year survivals have a "new" cancer ten or more / less years later? >>>>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 87 lines] > So Jeff, how many of those "cures" 5 year survivals have a "new" cancer ten > or more / less years later? Do your own research. you can start at scholar.google.com or www.pubmed.gov, if you like. Jeff >>>>>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > Do your own research. you can start at scholar.google.com or > www.pubmed.gov, if you like. Awwwww, I would much rather hear it from you. >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] >> > Awwwww, I would much rather hear it from you. Since you have "deaf ears" why should anyone bother? >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] >> Awwwww, I would much rather hear it from you. > Since you have "deaf ears" why should anyone bother? Anyone was not addressed. Expecially you. Butt out. Get your Torah off your desk that you claim you read everyday. That was another lie proven by your posts. Real one on HealthFraud list: Jeffrey Peter Joseph Utz, M.D. jeffutz@juno.com [2007] "Robert Watson" kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com Jeff Utz jtest-utz2@juno.com Jeff Utz, M.D. jeffutz@juno.com Jeffrey P. Utz, M.D. jeffutz@softhome.net Hence "Putz" http://www.msu.edu/~utz/ utz@pilot.msu.edu Jeffrey Peter, M.D. kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com Wyle E. Coyote wyle_e_coyote70@hotmail.com Jeff Utz kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com (Jan 2003) Jeff jeff64@pacbell.net Jeff jeff@hotmail.com (2007) Can prove his own claims. Which is highly unlikely. Like yourself. >>>>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 87 lines] > So Jeff, how many of those "cures" 5 year survivals have a "new" cancer ten > or more / less years later? Whether they do or not is not in issue. The fact is, they lived ten or more years beyond what they would have without chemo. >>>>>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > Whether they do or not is not in issue. The fact is, they lived ten or > more years beyond what they would have without chemo. OOps. Is your name Jeff? Real one on HealthFraud list: Jeffrey Peter Joseph Utz, M.D. jeffutz@juno.com [2007] "Robert Watson" kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com Jeff Utz jtest-utz2@juno.com Jeff Utz, M.D. jeffutz@juno.com Jeffrey P. Utz, M.D. jeffutz@softhome.net Hence "Putz" http://www.msu.edu/~utz/ utz@pilot.msu.edu Jeffrey Peter, M.D. kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com Wyle E. Coyote wyle_e_coyote70@hotmail.com Jeff Utz kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com (Jan 2003) Jeff jeff64@pacbell.net Jeff jeff@hotmail.com (2007) Butt out. >>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Why do you think this is because of chemotherapy? It isn't, in all cases. But some diseases, like leukemia, surgery is not an option. >Please provide a peer-reviewed published study that has proven the >effectiveness of chemotherapy using standard scientific protocols. > >There's no such study. Of course there is. Some diseases, like ALL, are always fatal without treatment. Now, with treatment, over half the patients survive. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "Saddam Hussein was a bad man, connected with some incredibly dangerous people: Cheney, Rumsfeld, George Galloway." -- Marcus Brigstocke >>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Of course there is. Some diseases, like ALL, are always fatal without > treatment. Now, with treatment, over half the patients survive. With high-risk childhood leukemia, the cure rates are at least 60%. For low-risk, the survival rates are around 90%. Gee, not bad for a disease that was usually fatal when I was a kid, and almost always fatal when my dad was a kid. <http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_2_4X_How_Is_Childhood_Leukemia_T reated_24.asp?sitearea=> Jeff > -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net > These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. > "Saddam Hussein was a bad man, connected with some incredibly dangerous > people: Cheney, Rumsfeld, George Galloway." -- Marcus Brigstocke >>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > <http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_2_4X_How_Is_Childhood_Leukemia_T reated_24.asp?sitearea=> From the ACS. Sad. > Jeff > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> dangerous >> people: Cheney, Rumsfeld, George Galloway." -- Marcus Brigstocke > "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message <...> >> <http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_2_4X_How_Is_Childhood_Leukemia_T reated_24.asp?sitearea=> > > From the ACS. > > Sad. If you don't think this is a good source of information, why don't you provide data from a better source of info? Jeff >>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Of course there is. So where is it? Yuri. Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku "As a chemist trained to interpret data, it is incromprehensible to me that physicians can ignore the clear evidence that chemotherapy does much, much more harm than good." -- Alan Nixon, Ph.D., Past President, American Chemical Society. >>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >So where is it? Read *any* study about chemotherapy, especially in, say leukemias. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "Saddam Hussein was a bad man, connected with some incredibly dangerous people: Cheney, Rumsfeld, George Galloway." -- Marcus Brigstocke >> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >> >> Chemotherapy Effective Against Cancer, But At What Cost? > >No, Jan, it is NOT effective against cancer, and never has been... Please >inform yourself about this matter. A little quotation from Childhood acute lymphocytic leukemia: progress and problems in treatment. W P Bowman (A paper from 1981, Canadian Medical Association Journal) Acute lymphocytic leukemia is the most common cancer of childhood. A series of total therapy studies begun in 1962 at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital in Memphis, Tennessee has had a dramatic impact on the survival of children with this disease. These studies have systematically examined various drug combinations and radiation therapy in an effort to cure acute lymphocytic leukemia. As a result, a once uniformly fatal condition is now curable in nearly one half of cases. See that, Yuri? I'm hopeful that not even someone as deep in denial as yourself will be able to overlook "a once uniformly fatal condition." Also, the "nearly one half of cases." Still, I'm not holding my breath. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "Saddam Hussein was a bad man, connected with some incredibly dangerous people: Cheney, Rumsfeld, George Galloway." -- Marcus Brigstocke >>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Still, I'm not holding my breath. Even if these claims are true (and that's a big 'if'), this cannot be seen as a proof that chemotherapy is effective, because this type of cancer is only ca 2% of all cancers. Yuri. Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku "As a chemist trained to interpret data, it is incromprehensible to me that physicians can ignore the clear evidence that chemotherapy does much, much more harm than good." -- Alan Nixon, Ph.D., Past President, American Chemical Society. >>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >Even if these claims are true (and that's a big 'if'), That's a "big 'if'"? Gee, Yuri, you're even stupider than I thought you were, which is really saying something. You're implying that before chemo, lots of children were getting leukemia and not dying, and the doctors never noticed. Uh huh. >this cannot be seen as a proof that chemotherapy is effective, >because this type of cancer is only ca 2% of all cancers. And surgery is not effective on skin cancer because you can't use it on leukemia. Yuri, you're an incredible dope. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "Saddam Hussein was a bad man, connected with some incredibly dangerous people: Cheney, Rumsfeld, George Galloway." -- Marcus Brigstocke >>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > And surgery is not effective on skin cancer because you can't use it > on leukemia. Yuri, you're an incredible dope. If chemo is only effective in 2% of cases, this alone constitutes clear proof that it is ineffective overall. But of course I have my doubts that chemo is effective in any way at all. It's just that with some rare cancers (i.e. when the number of patients is very small) the studies can be more easily manipulated to show positive results. Yuri. Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku "As a chemist trained to interpret data, it is incromprehensible to me that physicians can ignore the clear evidence that chemotherapy does much, much more harm than good." -- Alan Nixon, Ph.D., Past President, American Chemical Society. >>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > Yuri. Why...oh, why must there be such name calling and personal insults? Never mind David. *When you start whining about personalities,don't be surprised that it generates comments about your own. David Wright* > Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku > > "As a chemist trained to interpret data, it is incromprehensible to > me that physicians can ignore the clear evidence that > chemotherapy does much, much more harm than good." -- Alan > Nixon, Ph.D., Past President, American Chemical Society. That says it all. >>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > *When you start whining about personalities,don't be surprised that it > generates comments about your own. David Wright* Well, I'm quite surprised that these defenders of corporate medicine are so little concerned about a bad impression that they're making... Their intemperate language just keeps discrediting corporate medicine! Yuri. Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku Believe it or not, but the American medical system is actually the leading cause of death and injury! Total number of iatrogenic deaths in the US is over 780,000 per year. This is equivalent to SIX JUMBO JETS falling out of the sky each and every day. -- DEATH BY MEDICINE, 2004, by Carolyn Dean, MD, ND, Martin Feldman, MD, Gary Null, PhD, Debora Rasio, MD. http://www.whale.to/a/dean.html >>>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] >little concerned about a bad impression that they're making... Their >intemperate language just keeps discrediting corporate medicine! Given the terrible impression you're making, Yuri, it seems at least as plausible that you are a plant by corporate medicine to make alties look like idiots. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "Saddam Hussein was a bad man, connected with some incredibly dangerous people: Cheney, Rumsfeld, George Galloway." -- Marcus Brigstocke >>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > very small) the studies can be more easily manipulated to show positive > results. Once again proving that providing any proof to you is a waste of time. >>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Once again proving that providing any proof to you is a waste of time. None has been provided. Seem to me it is time to close this thread. >>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >If chemo is only effective in 2% of cases, this alone constitutes clear >proof that it is ineffective overall. Interesting alternate reality you live in. If chemo is only effective in certain types of cancer, it means we should primarily use it there. >But of course I have my doubts that chemo is effective in any way at all. >It's just that with some rare cancers (i.e. when the number of patients is >very small) the studies can be more easily manipulated to show positive >results. Yes, I figured I'd get some sort of dimwitted response like that from you. First, you can explain why childhood leukemia, which used to be nearly 100% fatal, is now much less than 50% fatal -- and why this is only true when it's treated with chemotherapy. The number of patients is not "very small." Thousands of patients is not a small sample. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "Saddam Hussein was a bad man, connected with some incredibly dangerous people: Cheney, Rumsfeld, George Galloway." -- Marcus Brigstocke <...> > Interesting alternate reality you live in. If chemo is only effective > in certain types of cancer, it means we should primarily use it there. What's next? Using antibiotics only for bacterial infections? High blood pressure meds only when the blood pressure it too high? Not using laxatives when one has diarrhea? You mean you should only use medications for things that they work on. That's like say you should use a word processor when you have something to type. Amazing that there are some, like Yuri, who haven't figured this out yet. >> But of course I have my doubts that chemo is effective in any way at all. >> It's just that with some rare cancers (i.e. when the number of patients is [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > The number of patients is not "very small." Thousands of patients is > not a small sample. Yet it is an example of excellent science. The vast majority (I think around 85%) of kids who get cancer get either in studies or on protocols from studies. The data are reported to experts at analyzing data (National Childhood Cancer Foundation, usually, I believe), who use the data to figure out what works and what doesn't work. What is the result of all this? Thousands of kids who are alive now who would have died if they had the same disease before I was born. And thousands of adults who had cancer as kids. Jeff > -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net > These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. > "Saddam Hussein was a bad man, connected with some incredibly dangerous > people: Cheney, Rumsfeld, George Galloway." -- Marcus Brigstocke ><...> > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >would have died if they had the same disease before I was born. And >thousands of adults who had cancer as kids. Yuri will now announce that he "has his doubts" about this. As though that were evidence of anything except his low IQ. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "Saddam Hussein was a bad man, connected with some incredibly dangerous people: Cheney, Rumsfeld, George Galloway." -- Marcus Brigstocke > What's next? Using antibiotics only for bacterial infections? High blood > pressure meds only when the blood pressure it too high? Not using > laxatives when one has diarrhea? You mean you should only use > medications for things that they work on. Eating when hungry, drinking when thirsty, putting on warm clothing when it's not swelteringly hot, sleeping when tired ... | Bogus as it might seem, people, this really is a deliverable | | e-mail address. Of course, there isn't REALLY a lumber cartel. | | There isn't really a Santa Claus, but try www.santaclaus.com. | +--------------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> --------------+ >>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > The number of patients is not "very small." Thousands of patients is > not a small sample. You keep insisting that chemo might be effective in 2% of cases. Well, it's perfectly clear then that it's ineffective in 98% of cases! Yuri. Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku "As a chemist trained to interpret data, it is incromprehensible to me that physicians can ignore the clear evidence that chemotherapy does much, much more harm than good." -- Alan Nixon, Ph.D., Past President, American Chemical Society. > You keep insisting that chemo might be effective in 2% of cases. Well, it's > perfectly clear then that it's ineffective in 98% of cases! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1 5630849&dopt=Abstract 1: Clin Oncol (R Coll Radiol). 2004 Dec;16(8):549-60. Related Articles, Links The contribution of cytotoxic chemotherapy to 5-year survival in adult malignancies. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are some relatively rare advanced metastatic cancers which can be cured by chemo - testicular germ cell cancer, high and medium grade non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, some childhood cancers, but that's it. Chemotherapy is vastly overblown. It is a valuable adjuvant treatment after surgery for some common cancers, but none of the common epithelial cancers (breast, stomach, colon, rectum, lung, prostate, etc, ) can be cured by chemotherapy. And there is nothing on the horizon to suggest that that is going to change anytime soon. It's also used neoadjuvant - shrinking tumors before surgery and it's useful palliative - shirinking tumours. For every 100 cancers cured, surgery cures about 50, radiotherapy about 40 and chemotherapy at best 10. That's just the way it is..... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- < http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/HPI/CancerStatistics/FF/default.htm#FF01 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- re: childhood cancers One webpage says "More than 270000 children, teens, and adults in the Untied States are survivors of childhood cancer." Another: Childhood cancer have a good cure rate - between 70% and 90% - but often require aggressive chemotherapy Maybe Steph will comment, so watch for his post. J >> You keep insisting that chemo might be effective in 2% of cases. Well, it's >> perfectly clear then that it's ineffective in 98% of cases! [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Maybe Steph will comment, so watch for his post. > J Yuri will either reject this, or not understand it. >> You keep insisting that chemo might be effective in 2% of cases. Well, >> it's [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > but that's it. > Chemotherapy is vastly overblown. I agree. > It is a valuable adjuvant treatment after surgery for some common cancers, > but [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > chemotherapy at best 10. > That's just the way it is..... Yuri. Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku "As a chemist trained to interpret data, it is incromprehensible to me that physicians can ignore the clear evidence that chemotherapy does much, much more harm than good." -- Alan Nixon, Ph.D., Past President, American Chemical Society. >>>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] >You keep insisting that chemo might be effective in 2% of cases. Well, it's >perfectly clear then that it's ineffective in 98% of cases! Actually, it has its uses in more than 2% of cases. But even if it's not useful in 90% of cases, so what? It just means that chemo is not the treatment of choice for those cases. If you get skin cancer, the treatment of choice is surgery. If you get leukemia, it's chemo. You do what's appropriate in a given case. I mean, what kind of idiot expects there to be only one treatment for a wide variety of dramatically different diseases? -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "Saddam Hussein was a bad man, connected with some incredibly dangerous people: Cheney, Rumsfeld, George Galloway." -- Marcus Brigstocke >>>>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > Actually, it has its uses in more than 2% of cases. But even if it's > not useful in 90% of cases, In 98% of cases! > so what? So this means that massive numbers of people get killed by the system, because of deception. The punishment for ignorance is death. That's why it pays to be informed. Yuri. Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku "As a chemist trained to interpret data, it is incromprehensible to me that physicians can ignore the clear evidence that chemotherapy does much, much more harm than good." -- Alan Nixon, Ph.D., Past President, American Chemical Society. >>>>>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > >In 98% of cases! No. It has other uses even when it's not the primary treatment. >> so what? > >So this means that massive numbers of people get killed by the system, >because of deception. The punishment for ignorance is death. No, it doesn't mean that at all. Chemo may sometimes be pointless, but the idea that it's killing people who would otherwise live is just dopey. >That's why it pays to be informed. You should try it sometime. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "Saddam Hussein was a bad man, connected with some incredibly dangerous people: Cheney, Rumsfeld, George Galloway." -- Marcus Brigstocke >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>>>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > > No, it doesn't mean that at all. Chemo may sometimes be pointless, Chemo is pointless. It's a fraud. > but the idea that it's killing people who would otherwise live is just > dopey. This is the truth. Yuri. Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku "As a chemist trained to interpret data, it is incromprehensible to me that physicians can ignore the clear evidence that chemotherapy does much, much more harm than good." -- Alan Nixon, Ph.D., Past President, American Chemical Society. >>>So this means that massive numbers of people get killed by the system, >>>because of deception. The punishment for ignorance is death. >> >> No, it doesn't mean that at all. Chemo may sometimes be pointless, > >Chemo is pointless. It's a fraud. I've already shown you that it saves lives for some forms of cancer. You can stick your fingers in your ears and scream all you like. It won't change those facts. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "Saddam Hussein was a bad man, connected with some incredibly dangerous people: Cheney, Rumsfeld, George Galloway." -- Marcus Brigstocke >>>>So this means that massive numbers of people get killed by the system, >>>>because of deception. The punishment for ignorance is death. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net Fine, YOU take it. >>>>> So this means that massive numbers of people get killed by the system, >>>>> because of deception. The punishment for ignorance is death. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net > Fine, YOU take it. If I needed it, I would show up early. If you are told you need it, I expect you to stick to your beliefs and refuse. > I mean, what kind of idiot expects there to be only one treatment for > a wide variety of dramatically different diseases? Rhetorical question, right? | Bogus as it might seem, people, this really is a deliverable | | e-mail address. Of course, there isn't REALLY a lumber cartel. | | There isn't really a Santa Claus, but try www.santaclaus.com. | +--------------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> --------------+ >> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Yuri. Did you read the entire article and the links? Newstarget is well informed and tells it like it is. Thank God for Mike Adams! > Yuri Kuchinsky -- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku > > "Modern medicine" may well be defined as "the experimental study of what > happens when poisonous chemicals are placed into malnourished human > bodies." -- A. Saul, Contributing Editor, Journal of Orthomolecular > Medicine -- http://www.orthomed.org >>> http://www.newstarget.com/z022247.html >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Did you read the entire article and the links? Yes, I did. > Newstarget is well informed and tells it like it is. > > Thank God for Mike Adams! Jan, Mike Adams seems like a good guy, but this doesn't mean that he's always right about everything... I'm not questioning most of what he says in his article, just his basic premise that chemo is effective. Best, Yuri. Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku "...chemotherapy's success record is dismal. It can achieve remissions in about 7% of all human cancers; for an additional 15% of cases, survival can be "prolonged" beyond the point at which death would be expected without treatment. This type of survival is not the same as a cure or even restored quality of life." -- John Diamond, M.D. |
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