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Medical Forum / General / General / October 2007

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Reading, Writing and Ritalin!//D.A.R.E. to keep kids off of Ritalin/

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Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A. - 06 Oct 2007 07:41 GMT
D.A.R.E. to keep kids off of Ritalin//It's 9:AM on a School Day.
Do You Know What Your Kids Are On??

Establishment "Educators" Push Drugs On Disruptive, Fussy Children!/
Reading, Writing and Ritalin!

For a variety of reason, including boredom, schoolchildren
sometimes don't pay attention the way the teacher would prefer.  In
times past, the answer has been a suggestion from the teacher to "pay
attention," or perhaps a slap on the wrist with the ever-present
ruler.
That was then.  This is now.  Today's answer to fussy children.  DRUG
THEM!!  It is a well-established fact that often the most fussy
children
are often the most intelligent.  They get bored in a class geared to
the
less intelligent.  But we can't have some children singled out as
being
more intelligent.   So, in a Machiavellian move to prevent excellence
from being rewarded and encouraged, the government along with the
blessing of the Medical Industrial-Complex have decided that fussy
children
have a mental problem.

    But not to worry, they have an answer--it's drugs.  Dope those
kids
to the point that they'll sit there in class like good little zombies,
never educationally outdistancing their lesser endowed classmates!
But
first the parents must be convinced that their children aren't fussy;
they're fruit cakes.  "Don't worry, parents," says the psychiatrist,
"We can fix that."  And if you don't believe them, the pharmaceutical
companies have jumped on the bandwagon.

    A concerned parent in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania was visiting her
local bank where she found a stack of pamphlets available for
customers
as a "public service."  The name of this pamphlet is "Reading, Writing
and RITALIN."  Ritalin is a stimulant used to "stabilize" fussy
children
First, "fussy children" isn't scientific enough.  No good parent is
going to agree to have his child drugged (in good conscience) because
he
or she is "fussy."  So the American Psychiatric Association has come
up
with a new "spin-drome," that's called "Attention Deficit Disorder" or
ADD, and its associate "disease" Attention Deficit Disorder with
Hyperactivity or ADHA.  Parents are told that their children are
"sick."
But again, don't worry, there's a solution: You guessed it: drugs!

    Here's what the "helpful community service" pamphlet says:
Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) affects approximately 2 million
school-age children.  No one knows for certain what causes ADD.
Evidence suggests, however, that a chemical imbalance or deficiencies
in
certain neurotransmitters may be the root of the problem.  To identify
ADD a clinical judgment and an objective assessment is needed.  ADD is
a
learning disability, and in approximately 25 percent of the cases
other
impairments exist, therefore a psyco-educational assessment is needed
including the evaluation of: reasoning skills, use of language,
perception, attention, memory, visual motor functioning, academic
achievement and social skills to establish a pattern. Again, don't
worry.  It isn't your child's fault he or she is fussy.  It's a
chemical
imbalance or a problem with neurotransmitters in the brains.  That's a
relief.  Get out the DRUGS!  The situation has progressed to the point
where a teacher just reports a "fussy" student to a higher authority,
and
then the parents are informed that the child should (must) get tested
for ADD.

    If you disagree that drugging your fussy child is wrong, even
after
a member in good standing of the APA decides it's the right course of
action, prepare for a visit from the child welfare juggernaut.  And
what
is this Ritalin that "everyone" says is so good for your fussy child?
Dennis Clarke a member of a Human Rights Commission paints a very
grim picture of Ritalin.  According to Clarke, in 1989, Ritalin was
"The
number one street drug in Canada."  He identified it as a "speed-type"
drug.

    Continuing, Mr. Clarke says, "This drug, when given to a child
who
has not yet entered puberty, has what is called a paradoxical effect.
It has a reverse effect to what it would have on you or I as adults.
Whenever you give speed to a child, it has the effect of being a
downer.
Let's take an example: Quaalude, a heavy psychiatric downer, which was
taken off the market by Congress in 1984.  If that drug was given to a
child it would act as a very potent type of speed.  The child would
become wildly hyperactive, the pulse would increase and the child
would
be in serious trouble.  Now, on the other hand, when you give speed to
a
child who has not yet entered puberty, for reasons we don't fully
understand, it apparently overwhelms the child's central nervous
system,
cutting the motors, making it difficult for the child to move and to
communicate.  CIBA-GEIGY warns that this drug can cause epilepsy in
children as well as adults.   It can cause epileptic seizures where
there is no history of it."

    Here's what the APA says about the drug:  "Poor administration or
incorrect dosage of Ritalin can lead to some of the following side
effects: 'Zombie-like' behavior, growth suppression, behavior or
thought
disorder, seizures, headaches, blurred vision, scalp hair loss,
Tourette's syndrome-including tics, barking like a dog and babbling
profanities!  It can also result in drug dependence and an inclination
for criminality."   That what the APA says about the drug they want
to give to your child because he or she is "fussy" in school or loses
things like pencils or homework assignments.  Did you ever lose a
homework assignment?  Do you think you were "sick" and in need
of a mind-numbing drug to "fix" things"  As usual, a major
pharmaceutical company is making profits from the misery and ruined
lives of our most innocent citizens; the children.  In Nazi Germany
this
was called Genocide, in America today it is called behavior
modification.
Both are abhorrent and repulses the strong moral fiber of every decent
and hard-working American!

I strongly urge everyone to find the names of those who sit on the
board of directors of the top ten pharmaceutical companies.  That will
most certainly be an eye-opener even to those who  support the
"Pro-Medication Wing" of the "Medical-Industrial Complex."

If you care about your family, your community and even yourself, you
MUST find out that facts regarding the biggest swindle, sham and scam
that is
being perpetrated on the gullible American public today.  That is, of
course,
the Forced Drugging of otherwise intelligent and normal children all
for
the sake of profit.  If you have any shred of concern and decency for
your
fellow humans, learn the facts before you force powerful dope down
your children's or neighbors throats.  Thank you.
boonoonoonoos - 06 Oct 2007 17:55 GMT
On Oct 5, 11:41 pm, "Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A."
<scie...@zzz.com> wrote:
> D.A.R.E. to keep kids off of Ritalin//It's 9:AM on a School Day.
> Do You Know What Your Kids Are On??
[quoted text clipped - 127 lines]
> most certainly be an eye-opener even to those who  support the
> "Pro-Medication Wing" of the "Medical-Industrial Complex."

Wow! You just described, (in detail) what happened to my son, and my
life! He was merely three years old @ time of diagnosis. Although I
TRIED to elaborate on my circumstances w/ Headstart preschool...I was
stressed out as a single mother, in job transition, in school, and
they threatened to kick him out of the ONLY preschool I could afford
IF I didn't take him to the doctor! The doc was quick to give him
Ritalin for awake hours and Clonadine for knocking him out at night.
Insert utter Chaos for the next SEVEN, (better make that NINE!) years.
His naive brain has completely, heinously rewired itself. I hear tale
of the Foster Care system being so overloaded w/ abused male children
and I know why! Yep, it's attention DEFICIT alright...the minute they
get that crap surging through their bloodtream, they are so
devastatingly altered... that giving POSITIVE ATTENTION is nearly
impossible! Quite the strategic name they gave that disorder, eh?
I know there are millions of single parents out there that are as
perplexed as I WAS...until I found out the truth, that is. I remember
thinking that my son must just be severly mentally deficient, a TRUE
psycho...."He really does NEED this stuff!"...when ALL ALONG it was
those "treatment meds" that were CAUSING that behavior. Talk about a
catch 22! I took his school district to court, no attorney as I was
poor...(ended up quitting school...too much drama with him initially
on the meds, and that move completely altered our financial future!!!)
the case took TWO years, but I won. They completely BLEW his education
from Kindergarten thru 4th grade. Every teacher, every year..."He
needs a higher dose!" He couldn't make friends because he was
"tainted" in every class as the bad boy...when REALLY he was just a
LEGAL meth head tweaking ALL alone, (the meds MAKE them anti-social!)
in the corner, building some crazy lego structure...
and the other kids quickly learned how to get him to explode....go
interrupt the tweaker and knock it down, watch HIM freak out and watch
HIM get in trouble by the teacher! Any eval they had from their
psychologists regarding his behaviors in class, were NOTHING but
amphetamine side effects! Now let's talk withdrawl. They certainly
have a detox center on nearly every street corner for illegal meth,
but what do you do with a child during withdrawl? He became psychotic,
hallucinated, rapid heart rate, audio overload, etc.....heinous is the
only way to describe it. I now have to maintain a monotone voice at
all times and NEVER lose my cool. His "pleasure sensors"..dopamine
transmitters resemble BURNT TOAST, I'm sure...so there is no NORMAL
life...he's always seeking pleasure, self-gratification. Its been two
years now that he's been drug-free, no junk food...hearty grain,
greens, no added sugar, soy, etc. I continue to expound on Eastern
philosophy with him...meditation, yoga, etc. The healing IS taking
place, but BELIEVE ME...it's one baby step at a time. To try and fix
NINE years of hell, nine years of POSITIVE attention deficit may well
take the rest of MY life! Here's the kicker...He's brilliant!!!!! He's
an amazing abstract artist and a musician that definitely resembles a
prodigy. Oh ya, and Social security has "deemed" him disabled DUE to
long-term drug damages...another win for me, and definitely an
"admission" of transgressions from the TOP of the totem pole, eh?
                                       Sincerely,
                            Always JUST a loving Mother

> If you care about your family, your community and even yourself, you
> MUST find out that facts regarding the biggest swindle, sham and scam
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> fellow humans, learn the facts before you force powerful dope down
> your children's or neighbors throats.  Thank you.
Sophie - 06 Oct 2007 19:52 GMT
Your post is very interesting I must admit, but I would like to see
the other side of the story. Like me who has a daughter who is not
doing so great at school, I am faced with a choice : drugs or no
drugs. If I go without drugs, what can be done to make a change? I
can't ignore the problem. I want her to be able to concentrate and
have good marks.
Thanks
Sophie
Nom dePlume - 06 Oct 2007 23:48 GMT
> Your post is very interesting I must admit, but I would like to see
> the other side of the story. Like me who has a daughter who is not
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Thanks
> Sophie

It depends on the problem (you knew I was going to say that, didn't you?).
Some kids have difficulties focusing, and only stimulants are effective.
Some are perfectly normal (boys, especially), but don't conform to the
"passive houseplant" ideal of the school's model student, and are labeled
with ADHD. Finally, a significant number of children have difficulties with
the standard school environment that are not due to ADHD. Children
experience the world and process information in a wide variety of ways. Some
are extremely tactile, some visual, some auditory. Some need to move and
feel and experience through action in order to learn.

In short, if your child is having problems in school, I would suggest
starting with her pediatrician to discuss possible reasons for the problems.
It may well be worth seeing a specialist in learning disorders and
children's learning styles to see if there are specific sensory issues
involved, that cannot be addressed in the current school environment.
Finally, if she truly has ADHD and not something else, Ritalin or Dexedrine
might be just the right thing.

The trick is to identify and treat the right problem, not just to blindly
seek or avoid medications.

Signature

Nom dePlume, Ph.D.
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.

Find my book, Medicines for Mental health, and free drug information, at
www.mentalmeds.org

=====

Mark Probert - 11 Oct 2007 03:17 GMT
>> Your post is very interesting I must admit, but I would like to see
>> the other side of the story. Like me who has a daughter who is not
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> It depends on the problem (you knew I was going to say that, didn't you?).
> Some kids have difficulties focusing, and only stimulants are effective.

Other things can be effective, but there is no will to do them.

> Some are perfectly normal (boys, especially), but don't conform to the
> "passive houseplant" ideal of the school's model student, and are labeled
> with ADHD.

Is that the lick-and-stick or peel-off kind of label?

Do explain just how a school can legally diagnose.

Finally, a significant number of children have difficulties with
> the standard school environment that are not due to ADHD. Children
> experience the world and process information in a wide variety of ways. Some
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> The trick is to identify and treat the right problem, not just to blindly
> seek or avoid medications.

Good points. Unfortunately, there are those who are locked into their
anti-medication paranoia.
Nom dePlume - 11 Oct 2007 05:44 GMT
>> Some are perfectly normal (boys, especially), but don't conform to the
>> "passive houseplant" ideal of the school's model student, and are labeled
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Do explain just how a school can legally diagnose.

They can't, of course, which is why I said "label." I have heard a number of
stories of teachers and administrators who that demanded that parents give
their kids stimulants, on the grounds that the kids had ADHD. The fact that
they were not qualified to make such a diagnosis didn't slow them down much.

>> The trick is to identify and treat the right problem, not just to blindly
>> seek or avoid medications.
>
> Good points. Unfortunately, there are those who are locked into their
> anti-medication paranoia.

Too true.
Signature

Nom dePlume, Ph.D.
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.

Find my book, Medicines for Mental health, and free drug information, at
www.mentalmeds.org

=====

Mark Probert - 11 Oct 2007 12:58 GMT
>>> Some are perfectly normal (boys, especially), but don't conform to the
>>> "passive houseplant" ideal of the school's model student, and are labeled
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> their kids stimulants, on the grounds that the kids had ADHD. The fact that
> they were not qualified to make such a diagnosis didn't slow them down much.

For YEARS I had made a standing offer to anyone who was told that. I
offered to file a complaint, using my name, with their state educational
licensing authority against those teachers and administrators. Strange
thing, no one took me up on it.

I did, in my son's case, complain to the school board that one social
worker was promoting some unproven therapy. They took no action, so I
went to the state. She was issued a letter of reprimand.

>>> The trick is to identify and treat the right problem, not just to blindly
>>> seek or avoid medications.
>> Good points. Unfortunately, there are those who are locked into their
>> anti-medication paranoia.
>
> Too true.
MothWrangler - 13 Oct 2007 03:41 GMT
>>>> Some are perfectly normal (boys, especially), but don't conform to
>>>> the "passive houseplant" ideal of the school's model student, and
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> licensing authority against those teachers and administrators. Strange
> thing, no one took me up on it.

If it wasn't clear before 2004 that a public school's requiring students
to take ADHD medications before they could attend school was illegal,
the 2004 amendments to the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act
(IDEA) made it clearly so. They provide:

Prohibition on Mandatory Medication.

(A) In General. The State educational agency shall prohibit State and
local educational agency personnel from requiring a child to obtain a
prescription for a substance covered by the Controlled Substances Act
(21 U.S.C. 801 et seq.) as a condition of attending school, receiving an
evaluation under subsection (a) or (c) of section 1414 of this title, or
receiving services under this title.

(B) Rule of Construction. Nothing in subparagraph (A) shall be construed
to create a Federal prohibition against teachers and other school
personnel consulting or sharing classroom-based observations with
parents or guardians regarding a student's academic and functional
performance, or behavior in the classroom or school, or regarding the
need for evaluation for special education or related services under
paragraph (3).

Nancy
Unique, like everyone else
Mark Probert - 13 Oct 2007 03:55 GMT
>>>>> Some are perfectly normal (boys, especially), but don't conform to
>>>>> the "passive houseplant" ideal of the school's model student, and
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> need for evaluation for special education or related services under
> paragraph (3).

That won't shut the morons up. They will whine about it ad nauseum.
Mark Probert - 11 Oct 2007 03:35 GMT
> Your post is very interesting I must admit, but I would like to see
> the other side of the story. Like me who has a daughter who is not
> doing so great at school, I am faced with a choice : drugs or no
> drugs. If I go without drugs, what can be done to make a change? I
> can't ignore the problem. I want her to be able to concentrate and
> have good marks.

At the outset, medications are not for grade improvement as you seem to
imply.

You have more choices than drug or no-drug. The first thing you have to
do is find out exactly what is going on with your daughter.

First, talk to her doctor. See what s/he has to say. Express ALL of your
concerns.

You can then request that the school district evaluate her to see why
she is not learning. If you can afford it, take her to a education
specialist for a thorough evaluation.

You can find some excellent information at www.ldonline.org.
SumBuny - 11 Oct 2007 15:28 GMT
>> Your post is very interesting I must admit, but I would like to see
>> the other side of the story. Like me who has a daughter who is not
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> You can find some excellent information at www.ldonline.org.

<nodding> Another helpful site is this one, that shows some easy
pre-referral interventions that are relatively easy and painless (and
medication-free, since they are *einvironmental* modifications):
http://www.adhdsupport.com/showarticle.asp?articleid=157&categoryid=25

Many of us (most?) who use medications use these *in addition to*
medications, since it has been proven that a *multimodal approach* is more
effective than an "either/or" approach...

Signature

Buny
--Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal." ~ Albert Camus

boonoonoonoos - 11 Oct 2007 17:46 GMT
> >> Your post is very interesting I must admit, but I would like to see
> >> the other side of the story. Like me who has a daughter who is not
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

This "tidbit" came DIRECTLY from the link you provided. Now tell
me...Why is it that ADHD kids have ALL of this trouble IF the
"treatment meds" are doing their job? I know why. It's because our
educational system has been so overloaded w/ kids that have gotten
medication that they should have NEVER gotten...and the medication
side effects cause "out of control" behavior. It certainly is hard to
make friends whilst out of control, now isn't it? It certainly is hard
to have a stable, loving family life whilst out of control, isn't it?
The TRUTH is, that the juvenile justice system is so overloaded w/
kids that have stumbled down the juvenile delinquent path as a direct
result of misdiagnosis w/ ADHD...which THEN resulted in other
misdiagnosis, then more "treatment medications"....the outcomes are
ALL over the news...14 year old w/ "supposed Bipolar"  goes on
shooting rampage at school in Ohio!

ADHD and Problems with Peers

The effects of ADHD on a child's schoolwork and family life are well
established. Parents and teachers also need to pay adequate attention
to how the disorder can affect how a child gets along with his or her
peers. This article explores some of the more common problems that can
occur and looks at solutions to improve relationships with other
children.

Most books and studies on attention-deficit/hyperactivity_disorder
(ADHD) stress the effects of the condition on a child's schoolwork,
family life, and relationships with other children of about the same
age (called peer relations). Problems at home and in school present an
immediate and obvious threat to a child's well-being and to his or her
family. In school, symptoms often result in the child repeating a
grade or failing to live up to his or her potential.

At home, ADHD symptoms can create enough frustration and turmoil to
damage relations among all family members. So obviously, these two
areas require immediate attention. As a result, poor peer relations
often take a backseat to the problems that need to be treated without
delay. Often, the importance of peer relations is either not
recognized or is simply overlooked, and the child may never receive
the assistance he or she needs to improve these relationships.
SumBuny - 11 Oct 2007 21:30 GMT
>> >> Your post is very interesting I must admit, but I would like to see
>> >> the other side of the story. Like me who has a daughter who is not
[quoted text clipped - 78 lines]
> recognized or is simply overlooked, and the child may never receive
> the assistance he or she needs to improve these relationships.

Interesting that you claimed that the article that you quoted came from the
same place that mine did--since I posted the link to the article that I used
(which is traditionally done when quoting in research) why did you not do
the same?

Could it be that the article in question did *not* come from the same site?
If it *does* come from the same site, prove it by posting the link, please;
otherwise, your credibility may suffer.

I do not question that sometimes a misdiagnosis of a problem is made--that
is not only an issue in the realm of ADHD, it happens in *every* branch of
medicine.  What would you say of the fact that I was also misdiagnosed?  I
was misdiagnosed as *not* having ADHD for most of my life, and therefore
recieved the wrong treatment for many years.  It was not until I received
the *correct* diagnosis (ADHD) and got the correct treatment (medication and
environmental mods when needed, and environmental mods alone otherwise).

Incorrect diagnoses goes in *both* directions...

Signature

Buny
--Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal." ~ Albert Camus

boonoonoonoos - 11 Oct 2007 22:05 GMT
> >> "Mark Probert" <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 108 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Oops, my bad...here's the link...http://www.adhdsupport.com/
showarticle.asp?articleid=162&categoryid=25
As far as you "buying in" to the adult diagnosis...well, do some
thorough research...  the research being done at some of the top
knotch universities in our country has ABSOLUTELY and POSITIVELY no
concrete answers as to WHAT, WHERE or WHY this "disorder" exists. Why?
Simply because it it DOESN'T exist. They strategically made up a name
and gave it to a man-made, technologically-induced,
rat-racing, food-poisened, subliminally weakened BEYOND belief,
societal SNAFU!!! You have the ABILITY to CHOOSE what you WANT to
believe...just as YOU have the ABILITY to CONTROL your own actions AND
thought....funny how they tried, (and in your case, succeeded!) to get
us to veer away from the powerful, yet simplistic accomplishments of
the human brain.
SumBuny - 11 Oct 2007 22:36 GMT
>> >> "Mark Probert" <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 123 lines]
> Oops, my bad...here's the link...http://www.adhdsupport.com/
> showarticle.asp?articleid=162&categoryid=25

Thank you for providing the link...that allows people the see the *whole*
article, not just the parts you quoted...sometimes seeing the entire thing
allows one to see "the big picture" <G>

One of the things that often gets overlooked (as was actually pointed out in
the article itself! <G>) is that many with ADHD have difficulties with
social skills that are learned at an early age.  The "hidden curriclum" is
what it is called in the educational circles (I am a spec ed major at the
moment).  Not being able to properly interpret non-verbal cues because one's
ADHD has not been addressed (especially if it has not been properly
diagnosed/treated) can be one cause.  Not *overtly* teaching the hidden
curriculum is another, something that is being taught in the universities
today (and was not necessarily taught in the past).

From the link you gave above
(http://www.adhdsupport.com/showarticle.asp?articleid=162&categoryid=25)
""Although this boy's ADHD symptoms were under control, he still lacked the
social awareness and skills that would help him to "belong" with his peer
group. He missed the social cues that help guide group interaction. This
gave him a bad sense of timing within group settings. For example, when
other children were talking, he would introduce a totally different topic
into the conversation. The boy felt he was participating, while his peers
were annoyed by what they felt were his attempts to change the flow of
conversation. He also missed unspoken hints, because he failed to "read"
other children's facial expressions, such as smirks or grimaces. In some
basic way, this child's lack of positive interaction skills appeared to the
other children to be an inability to "see" them.
In this situation, Dr. Wagner recommended that the boy's parents help with
his social skills. In general, parents should gently point out to their
child when he or she interrupts conversations, changes the topic, or does
not wait his or her turn to speak. Parents may also have to make an extra
effort to arrange get-togethers with their child's peers. In this way, they
may create enough time for real friendships to develop. ""

How many of us adults actually realise that we need to overtly point these
things out to our children?  These things that most kids learn from simple
observation?  After years of working with people with ADHD, autism spectrum
disorders, and other developmental disorers, I have seen what it is like to
not understand the "hidden curriculum"...and how easy it is to make mistakes
due to misunderstandings.

> As far as you "buying in" to the adult diagnosis...well, do some
> thorough research...

I have been doing research for over a dozen years--how long have you been
looking into ADHD and developmental disabilities?

 the research being done at some of the top
> knotch universities in our country has ABSOLUTELY and POSITIVELY no
> concrete answers as to WHAT, WHERE or WHY this "disorder" exists. Why?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> us to veer away from the powerful, yet simplistic accomplishments of
> the human brain.

You are right...I chose not to believe the incorrect diagnosis that I had
"simple" anxiety, that all I had to do was "relax" and I would be
better...but once I had to correct diagnosis of ADHD and the correct
treatment, my symptoms were reduced...and I was a better mother to my
children, better wife to my husband, and better tutor and sub to my students
and a better advocate for those with special needs....

I control my actions and take responsibility for my actions...can you say
the same?

Signature

Buny
--Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal." ~ Albert Camus

WWWSC #2 - 11 Oct 2007 23:52 GMT
boonoonoonoos <boonoonoonoos4u@msn.com> expounded:

>ABSOLUTELY and POSITIVELY no
>concrete answers

The only thing concrete is the space between your ears.
Signature

Proud member WWWSC #2
Formerly known as Ann

Mark Probert - 12 Oct 2007 13:08 GMT
>>>> Your post is very interesting I must admit, but I would like to see
>>>> the other side of the story. Like me who has a daughter who is not
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> me...Why is it that ADHD kids have ALL of this trouble IF the
> "treatment meds" are doing their job?

You have a warped sense of what the medication does. It does not fix all
problems, but allows the kid to focus their attention. There are other
problems that need other interventions.

BTW, I am beginning to suspect that you are fArtie.
Jan Drew - 07 Oct 2007 10:33 GMT
> On Oct 5, 11:41 pm, "Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A."
> <scie...@zzz.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 184 lines]
>
>Thanks for sharing loving mother.
Rital is not supposed to be given under age 6.

Now...Mark Probert can do the right thing and apologize to me.

Jan

>> If you care about your family, your community and even yourself, you
>> MUST find out that facts regarding the biggest swindle, sham and scam
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>> fellow humans, learn the facts before you force powerful dope down
>> your children's or neighbors throats.  Thank you.
Mark Probert - 11 Oct 2007 03:30 GMT
Internets biggest troll removed.

Pro-Medication Wing" of the "Medical-Industrial Complex."

> Wow! You just described, (in detail) what happened to my son, and my
> life! He was merely three years old @ time of diagnosis. Although I
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> IF I didn't take him to the doctor! The doc was quick to give him
> Ritalin for awake hours and Clonadine for knocking him out at night.

Interesting. Headstart being a Federal program means that YOUR child had
rights that YOU chose not to exercise.

> Insert utter Chaos for the next SEVEN, (better make that NINE!) years.
> His naive brain has completely, heinously rewired itself.

How so?

I hear tale
> of the Foster Care system being so overloaded w/ abused male children
> and I know why! Yep, it's attention DEFICIT alright...the minute they
> get that crap surging through their bloodtream, they are so
> devastatingly altered...

Of course, you do not know what you are talking about.

that giving POSITIVE ATTENTION is nearly
> impossible! Quite the strategic name they gave that disorder, eh?

Actually, you do have a point. The disorder is not one of a deficit of
attention, but a deficit of the ability to control attention.

> I know there are millions of single parents out there that are as
> perplexed as I WAS...

And you know this how? Crystal balls? Tea leaves?

until I found out the truth, that is. I remember
> thinking that my son must just be severly mentally deficient, a TRUE
> psycho....

Sounds more like you resented your son and being a single parent. Note
that I am playing YOUR game of idle conjecture.

"He really does NEED this stuff!"...when ALL ALONG it was
> those "treatment meds" that were CAUSING that behavior.

Let's see...you are saying that the behaviors he displayed after taking
the meds for behaviors that were just like he displayed before taking
the meds were caused by the meds? If this seems somewhat circular to
you, you are not alone.

Talk about a
> catch 22! I took his school district to court, no attorney as I was
> poor...(ended up quitting school...too much drama with him initially
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> "tainted" in every class as the bad boy...when REALLY he was just a
> LEGAL meth head tweaking ALL alone, (the meds MAKE them anti-social!)

Not in the real world.

> in the corner, building some crazy lego structure...
> and the other kids quickly learned how to get him to explode....go
> interrupt the tweaker and knock it down, watch HIM freak out and watch
> HIM get in trouble by the teacher! Any eval they had from their
> psychologists regarding his behaviors in class, were NOTHING but
> amphetamine side effects!

You said he was taking Ritalin, which is not an amphetamine.

Now let's talk withdrawl. They certainly
> have a detox center on nearly every street corner for illegal meth,
> but what do you do with a child during withdrawl?

Methylphenidate is not addictive at prescribed dosage.

He became psychotic,
> hallucinated, rapid heart rate, audio overload, etc.....heinous is the
> only way to describe it. I now have to maintain a monotone voice at
> all times and NEVER lose my cool. His "pleasure sensors"..dopamine
> transmitters resemble BURNT TOAST,

You were there at his autopsy?

I'm sure...so there is no NORMAL
> life...he's always seeking pleasure, self-gratification. Its been two
> years now that he's been drug-free, no junk food...hearty grain,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> prodigy. Oh ya, and Social security has "deemed" him disabled DUE to
> long-term drug damages...

That is funny, because the criteria of a child of his age does not list
that as a criteria.

> another win for me,

It is truly incredible that you consider what you wrote as a "WIN" and
that it is for YOU.

and definitely an
> "admission" of transgressions from the TOP of the totem pole, eh?

Not at all.

Howis your fiction writing class going?
boonoonoonoos - 11 Oct 2007 07:19 GMT
> Internets biggest troll removed.
>
[quoted text clipped - 120 lines]
>
> Howis your fiction writing class going?

The last 10 years of our lives have been like a SCIENCE fiction horror
movie, and my son was the lab rat. You can believe whatever you want
to believe. I know the truth about the ADHD meds.They certainly are
addicting. They certainly harm the heart and they MOST CERTAINLY harm
the brain.

Biphasic inotropic effects of methamphetamine and methylphenidate on
ferret papillary muscles.Ishiguro Y, Morgan JP.
Department of Anesthesia and Critical Care, Beth Israel Deaconess
Medical Center, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts 02215,
USA.

Methamphetamine and methylphenidate are structurally related agents
that have direct negative inotropic (NIEs) and indirect positive
inotropic effects (PIEs) in cardiac tissues. This study was designed
to determine and compare cellular mechanisms of the NIEs of
methamphetamine and methylphenidate by using a mammalian animal model.
Isometric tension was measured in ferret papillary muscles in
physiologic salt solution. A subset of muscles was loaded with the
bioluminescent calcium indicator, aequorin. Further, to investigate
the NIE of methamphetamine, the dose-response relations to
isoproterenol, histamine, and calcium were measured with or without
methamphetamine (2 x 10(-4) M), after adrenergic neuronal blockade
with reserpine. Both methamphetamine and methylphenidate had direct
NIEs at higher doses (>10(-4) M). A shift in the slope of the
isoproterenol dose-response curve suggested involvement of the beta-
adrenoceptor pathways. The direct NIE of methylphenidate was more
prominent. Our results suggest that the negative inotropic effects of
methamphetamine and methylphenidate may be important with clinically
used and abused concentrations of these drugs and may be difficult to
reverse with beta-adrenergic inotropic agents in cases of toxicity.

PMID: 9436813 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
WWWSC #2 - 11 Oct 2007 12:26 GMT
boonoonoonoos <boonoonoonoos4u@msn.com> expounded:

> I know the truth about the ADHD meds.

It's so obvious you don't.
>They certainly are
>addicting.

They certainly are not.  Just because you son was either 1)
misdiagnosed or 2) you mishandled his meds doesn't mean Ritalin isa
addictive.  There are many of us out there who had absolutely none of
the problems you describe.

>They certainly harm the heart and they MOST CERTAINLY harm
>the brain

This is utter bullshit and you've demonstrated you have no clue.  Now
stop insisting that your horror story is the norm for the
(mis)handling of ADHD diagnosis in a child.  It is so far from my
experience, and the experience of many others here, it's ridiculous.
Signature

Proud member WWWSC #2
Formerly known as Ann

Mark Probert - 11 Oct 2007 13:05 GMT
>> Internets biggest troll removed.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 108 lines]
>
> The last 10 years o

Drivel deleted.

You failed to respond to the points I raised. When someone spouts off as
you have, this tells me that you are here solely to push your agenda.

What agenda you ask?

You see, I do not believe your yarn. I have seen these yarns before,
especially from Oregon.
Dharma Bum - 08 Oct 2007 02:23 GMT
> D.A.R.E. to keep kids off of Ritalin//It's 9:AM on a School Day.
> Do You Know What Your Kids Are On??
[quoted text clipped - 139 lines]
> fellow humans, learn the facts before you force powerful dope down
> your children's or neighbors throats.  Thank you.

How long have you been a member of the "church" of $cientology?
Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A. - 08 Oct 2007 10:22 GMT
> > D.A.R.E. to keep kids off of Ritalin//It's 9:AM on a School Day.
> > Do You Know What Your Kids Are On??
[quoted text clipped - 141 lines]
>
> How long have you been a member of the "church" of $cientology?

Never, Hubbard was OSS which morphed into the CIA, Scientology is a
CIA mind-control operation, so just say NO!  IF they are anti hard-
core forced-drugging, then they are on the side of humanitarians and
concerned citizens who do not own stock in Big Pharma: Pfizer, Merck
etc. etc. etc.

The facts cannot be disuputed or even questioned, the proof is here
and anybody can verify it.

I don't let the loud-mouths of the Ann-Clark-Proby confab stop us from
printing the facts and the footnotes, which are heavily sourced.

How long have YOU been a lackey of the Medical-Industrial Complex that
views humans as nothing more than profit-makers?
Mark Probert - 11 Oct 2007 03:42 GMT
>> D.A.R.E. to keep kids off of Ritalin//It's 9:AM on a School Day.
>> Do You Know What Your Kids Are On??
[quoted text clipped - 141 lines]
>
> How long have you been a member of the "church" of $cientology?

They did not want him. You see, WholeFARTer is none other than Richard
Frager, etc. etc. the infamous netloon who has infested usenet for a decade.

His accomplishments include:

1. Being kicked off an ISP after he altered a Washington Post article to
change its meaning.

2. Being kicked off another ISP because he could not prove he was an MD
as he tried to portray.

3. Being kicked off another ISP for failure to pay.

4. Being the laughingstock of alien abductions, etc.

And, abuses and manipulates anyone whom he sees to be having emotional
or mental problems.
WWWSC #2 - 11 Oct 2007 12:29 GMT
Mark Probert <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> expounded:

>They did not want him. You see, WholeFARTer is none other than Richard
>Frager, etc. etc. the infamous netloon who has infested usenet for a decade.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>And, abuses and manipulates anyone whom he sees to be having emotional
>or mental problems.

Here's all sorts of info that will tell you all about Sir Artio,
a.k.a. fArty:

Anyone with any questions can always read this excerpt from the
following post:  <f6oGd8PWB0YFFwP+@koenig.zwert.com>:

Weeell, yes, FArtie, or Fraggie or Kolnick did once pretend to be a
doctor, and he did hand out bad advice. He was booted from one ISP for
this, and from another for unfairly quoting excessive amounts of
printed work in Usenet. So this should make him best of friends with
Gorat - please see her film, or she will be execut - as she loves a
medical doctor, but not the real thing.

Let's see some more links... ...because I spotted a reappearance way
back, after one of his disappearances, I collected some evidence of
the bogus doctor, who is in good company with the other bogus
'qualified' kooks in these groups:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.alien.visitors/msg/eed75eba652ebd31
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.alien.visitors/msg/367018115f8e20fa?dmode=source
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.alien.visitors/msg/eed75eba652ebd31?dmode=source
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.alien.research/msg/67d431364fa2ec88
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/23e2a75dd20fc9a5
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group:*.sex.*+author:smcqueen%40cyberhighway.n
et&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&filter=0

Signature

Proud member WWWSC #2
Formerly known as Ann

Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A. - 11 Oct 2007 14:11 GMT
> Mark Probert <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> expounded:
>
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> Proud member WWWSC #2
> Formerly known as Ann

Again, to the person  Formerly known as Ann, by taking a page out of
Proby's play-book only #1) PROVES that you and Proby ARE THE SAME
PERSON and #2) proves that repeating a lie only makes your opinions
look more worthless than they already are.

The Pro-Med Cult have reached a new bottom, if that is even possible.

They are running scared now that Dr. Boono, Jan and myself are
liberating this newsgroup FOR ALL PEOPLE.
No more of the Naziesque - Pro Stalin dictatorship that they use to
enjoy.

People across the entire spectrum have seen through the Medical-
Industrial Complex mumbo-jumbo and have said No to the Gulag-style
forced drugging of America's youth.  And naturally, the pro-med cult
are forced in a race to the bottom.  We  pity them of course, but
enough is enough and we are winning yet another battle for the hearts
and minds of America.  Let us support the person formerly known as Ann
in finding something useful to do in her miserable wretched life, she
needs our support now, and we are only too willing to help, but afer
all, this is a support group!

Sir Artio
WWWSC #2 - 11 Oct 2007 14:38 GMT
"Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A." <science@zzz.com> expounded:

>Again, to the person  Formerly known as Ann, by taking a page out of
>Proby's play-book only #1) PROVES that you and Proby ARE THE SAME
>PERSON

fArt, you have a strange way of using 'proof'.  Go right ahead and
believe we are the same person, it just goes hand in hand with all of
the rest of the idiocy you profess to believe.

and #2) proves that repeating a lie only makes your opinions
>look more worthless than they already are.

Truth hurts, doesn't it, Jerry?
Signature

Proud member WWWSC #2
Formerly known as Ann

Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A. - 11 Oct 2007 14:55 GMT
> "Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A." <science@zzz.com> expounded:
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Truth hurts, doesn't it, Jerry?

And what is truth to the person formally known as Ann. #1) Your pro-
med cult is made up of prono writers, disbared lawyers, crack-pots and
Big Pharma investors; #2) More and more parents are just saying NO to
the Gulag-style forced drugging of their children and #3) People have
finally understood that the phony spin-dromes of ADD/ADHD/ODD do NOT
exist, at least not in the numbers you cult is pushing.  Shame on
you :<

These are the facts,period.  Now go play with your cult members, we
have work to do here!!  We are SAVING lives, not ruining them by hard-
core drug addiction.  Speaking about hard-core, how is your cult
member Porno doing??????????

Sir Arti?
WWWSC #2 - 11 Oct 2007 16:09 GMT
"Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A." <science@zzz.com> expounded:

>And what is truth to the person formally known as Ann.

It's important, fArty/Jerry, so important that I use my real name (you
don't, do you, Jerry?) and I don't pollute support newsgroups with
trollish drivel such as yours.

snip the usual bullshit
People have
>finally understood that the phony spin-dromes of ADD/ADHD/ODD do NOT
>exist, at least not in the numbers you cult is pushing.  Shame on
>you :<

This is how you support people with problems, fArty/Jerry, lie and
misconstrue.  As for pro-medication cult bullshit, I will one more
time ask you to produce the post where I am pro-med.  Do it.  Oh,
that's right, you can't - because it doesn't exist.  

>These are the facts,period.  Now go play with your cult members, we
>have work to do here!!  We are SAVING lives, not ruining them by hard-
>core drug addiction.  Speaking about hard-core, how is your cult
>member Porno doing???÷¿¿¿¿¿¿

You wouldn't know a fact if it walked up to you and spit in your face.
Signature

Proud member WWWSC #2
Formerly known as Ann

Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A. - 12 Oct 2007 07:30 GMT
> "Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A." <science@zzz.com> expounded:
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> You wouldn't know a fact if it walked up to you and spit in your face.

To the person formerly known as Ann, we've been through this before,
your cult has been exposed and your last-ditch attempt to gain a shred
of respectability has utterly failed.

Dr. Boono, Jan and my agenda is crystal clear, to SAVE LIVES, not to
destroy them.  Plain and simple.

I will ask you once again to voluntarily remove yourself from these
newsgroups for a period of not less than 24 months, and take the rest
of your crack-pot cult members with you!

Now take your "farts" elsewhere, you have stunk up this newsgroup for
long enough!

Sir Artiø
WWWSC #2 - 12 Oct 2007 11:58 GMT
"Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A." <science@zzz.com> expounded:

>Now take your "farts" elsewhere, you have stunk up this newsgroup for
>long enough!
\
That's right, fARty, you have stunk up these newsgroups for far too
long.  The only thing you've exposed is what a complete idiot you
truly are.  Now go crawl back under your bridge like a good little
troll.
Signature

Proud member WWWSC #2
Formerly known as Ann

Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A. - 12 Oct 2007 12:31 GMT
> "Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A." <science@zzz.com> expounded:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> truly are.  Now go crawl back under your bridge like a good little
> troll.

To the person formerly known as Ann, it is said that imitation is the
sincerest form of flattery, and as I predicted many times, you would
copy my style, my lines and eventually my material!!  And why, because
everything I ever posted has been time-tested and proven to be 100%
accurate and 100% verifiable!

But time is a wasting with your pro-med Cult, they are on the run, and
our Crusade for Humanity plan to keep it that way.  Gone are the days
when every innocent question was met with the "drug them back to stone-
age" diatribe and "fry their brains!"  No more, and this newsgroup is
better for it.  It's actually sad to see the last vestigates of your
Cult desperatly seeking more victims.  Yes, the Proby-Right-Clark-the
person formally known as Ann-Nancy-Axis of disinfo days are
approaching an end, and the public-at-large are better for it.

I did predict this would happen, but not so quick.  Yes, our efforts
are paying off, and your cult doesn't even bother to engage such
brilliant minds as Dr. Boono anymore, for obvious reasons, it is
because you can't.

So we wait for your next silly comment, it is all you have left.
Sad :<

Sir Arti?
Mark Probert - 12 Oct 2007 13:11 GMT
>> Mark Probert <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> expounded:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>
> The Pro-Med Cult have reached a new bottom, if that is even possible.

The only bottom here is you, as a bottom feeder.

You cannot stand seeing the truth about you.
marcia - 11 Oct 2007 14:12 GMT
> Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> expounded:
>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.alien.visitors/msg/eed75eba652ebd31http://gro
ups.google.com/group/alt.alien.visitors/msg/367018115f8e20f...http://groups.goog
le.com/group/alt.alien.visitors/msg/eed75eba652ebd3...http://groups.google.com/g
roup/alt.alien.research/msg/67d431364fa2ec88http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s
upport.attn-deficit/msg/23e2a75dd...http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group:*.se
x.*+author:smcqueen%40cyb
...

Didn't he also get in trouble with his state medical board (Oregon?)
for impersonating a doctor, or practicing medicine without a license,
or some such?
Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A. - 11 Oct 2007 14:24 GMT
> Didn't he also get in trouble with his state medical board (Oregon?)
> for impersonating a doctor, or practicing medicine without a license,
> or some such?

Of course that did not happen, it was another desperate attempt by the
Proby-Porno faction to run this group by using a Stalin-Hitler-Nixon-
W. Bush naziesque tactic.  And why, because our pro-democracy side
only wants to SAVE LIVES and we are very successful at that!!   Yes,
the Medical-Industrial Complex wants to force-feed, in a Soviet Gulag-
Style, massive mind-numbing drugs down innocent children's throats,
and we are morally obligated to say NO MORE!

They foced out author-humanitarian Tim Brown, Sara Freeman and many
other Freedom Fighters from these newsgroups, but they cannot force
out Jan Drew, Dr. Boono and others who will stand up and expose their
fraud.

I pity useful idiots such as Marcia and the person formally known as
Ann, they are being duped by the totalitarian regime of prono writers,
disbarred lawyers, crack-pots and Big Pharma investors.  Let us join
together in the fight for proper mental-health, which does not include
mandatory hard-core drug abuse.
WWWSC #2 - 11 Oct 2007 14:39 GMT
marcia <design1@insight.rr.com> expounded:

>Didn't he also get in trouble with his state medical board (Oregon?)
>for impersonating a doctor, or practicing medicine without a license,
>or some such?

Yes he did.
Signature

Proud member WWWSC #2
Formerly known as Ann

Mark Probert - 12 Oct 2007 13:12 GMT
>> Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> expounded:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> for impersonating a doctor, or practicing medicine without a license,
> or some such?

Posibly, but I cannot reference it. He was kicked off an ISP for that.
Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A. - 13 Oct 2007 01:12 GMT
> >> Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> expounded:
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> Posibly, but I cannot reference it. He was kicked off an ISP for that.

Anybody that takes gossip from a disbarred lawyer and a porno writer
gets what they pay for.

Yes, I was kick off because Proby sent them about 100 e-mails a day!

All the b.s. was Proby's doing, but that is sooo typcial that the Pro-
Med Lobby has to resort to dirty tricks, this is nothing new.  Their
main dirty trick is to string out innocent children on hard-core mind-
numbing drugs.  And that is why we are united in stopping those evil-
doers!  The General demands that we never stop exposing the Iron-Fist
of the Medical Industrial Complex, and our soldiers-for-truth will
never stop until we can reverse the process.  Please join our Crusade
for Humanity and stop the gulag-style force-drugging of America's
youth once and for all.

Sir Artio
Mark Probert - 13 Oct 2007 03:13 GMT
>>>> Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> expounded:
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
> Yes, I was kick off because Proby sent them about 100 e-mails a day!

Actually, I never did send them any emails. You were too entertaining,
and the Bronx Zoo was closed for renovations.

> All the b.s. was Proby's doing, but that is sooo typcial that the Pro-
> Med Lobby has to resort to dirty tricks, this is nothing new.  

How about the homeopath lobby?

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/10/homeopathic_thuggery_bites_the_host_of
_t.php

 
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