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Medical Forum / General / General / June 2007

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Cervical fusion surgery -- alternatives?

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kleinwerden@yahoo.com - 10 Jun 2007 13:32 GMT
My 35-year-old stepdaughter is at a
juncture on the road to anterior
cervical discectomy with fusion
(this is what my wife wrote down
when I asked her to ask the doctor
for the complete medical name of
the procedure). The surgeon who was
going to do it, it turns out, doesn't
particpate in any insurance plans,
and we're trying to get her into
Medicaid (she's uninsured, unemployed
and poor).

So, belatedly, I've done some Googling
around the Web and these newsgroups
to make sure that surgery is the only
option for her. She's developed what
apparently are the classic symptoms of
nerve root compression: tingling and
numbness in arm, shoulder pain,
muscle weakness on the same side.
This was after she passed out on the
street a few months ago, which is what led
to her getting the medical attention
whose outcome was the recommendation
for surgery. For years before, she had had
headaches, which she attributed to
a long-ago auto accident. The surgery
recommendation came after they tried
some kind of electrical stimulation,
the name of which my wife doesn't know.
Also, as I understand, they tried cortisone
shots, too.

However, those particular doctors evidently
derive their income from settlements in
accident claims, so I wonder how objective
their approach is. Also, I wonder if the
fact that my wife has developed multiple
sclerosis is completely irrelevant in
this context. At any rate, there seems
to be a lot of material on the Web about
this, and I've just started searching, but
I thought I'd query now for any good
resources that folks may know about.
Jason James - 10 Jun 2007 18:18 GMT
> My 35-year-old stepdaughter is at a
> juncture on the road to anterior
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> I thought I'd query now for any good
> resources that folks may know about.

Spinal fusion is an attempt to stabilize the vertabrae which maybe causing
nerve-impingement. Its not always successful as you can imagine, something
as complex as the spine, has to be in the *exact* right position before
fusion, otherwise the outcome can be less than satisfactory. Having said
that, these days with the wonderful imaging technology available, failed
surgery is more remote. I feel sure the Drs would have explored your
S-daughter;s condition thoroughly before coming to this conclusion
(surgery). In patients who have lessor neck conditions, neck-traction can
work wonders. I assume she has been under a physio at some stage or tried a
neck-brace? If the neck injury was the result of an accident tho, it may
well be there is damage which is just beyond non-intervention help.
In the US, operations are posible for the poor at no cost I understand at
some mercy hospitals? Perhaps there is a hospital which is prepared to take
her on, on a no cost basis.

regards,..Jason
earthpots - 11 Jun 2007 02:58 GMT
> My 35-year-old stepdaughter is at a
> juncture on the road to anterior
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Medicaid (she's uninsured, unemployed
> and poor).

If you don't mind answering, more information here will help. Is your SD a
parent? Traditional Medicaid will not help her out if she has no dependents.
BTDT. Many states have catastrophic medical assistance, which will provide
coverage after she spends a certain amount. Medicaid also limits your choice
of doctors. Why is she unemployed? Where does she live, how does she pay for
her living expenses? If she is not working due to her condition being
disabling, she could try for disability, which would then provide her with
medical coverage.

> So, belatedly, I've done some Googling
> around the Web and these newsgroups
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Also, as I understand, they tried cortisone
> shots, too.

I have Occipital Neuralgia, which developed following an auto accident. I
had a consult with a neurosurgeon who recommended I *not* have surgery. My
SIS had surgery on her neck (a fusion), and it has essentially failed. Has
she tried PT? What medications does she take, if any? I use generic fentanyl
(Duragesic is the brand) patches, and Lidoderm, both are expensive.
Lifestyle changes and meds were what was recommended to me, I've learned to
live with it. Right now I'm having problems, I suspect the Occipital nerve
is inflamed, as I have been having head and shoulder pain.

> However, those particular doctors evidently
> derive their income from settlements in
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I thought I'd query now for any good
> resources that folks may know about.

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momgwen5 - 11 Jun 2007 08:50 GMT
> kleinwer...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > My 35-year-old stepdaughter is at a
[quoted text clipped - 77 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

I have a 3 level cervical fusion.
  I found the best site to get information on any procedures that I
am having done to my neck is this: www.spine-health.com.
  I think they also have a place that lets you put in your zip code
and they will tell you of a good surgeon in your area.
momg.
kleinwerden@yahoo.com - 11 Jun 2007 12:03 GMT
> kleinwer...@yahoo.com wrote:
> If you don't mind answering, more information here will help. Is your SD a
> parent? Traditional Medicaid will not help her out if she has no dependents.
> BTDT. Many states have catastrophic medical assistance, which will provide
> coverage after she spends a certain amount. Medicaid also limits your choice

I knew that...or I think I did at one point.
Anyway, my wife has a lawyer helping her with
these issues. Stepdaughter has three kids,
but the father, from whom she's divorced,
has custody. She's got a court appointment
today about getting released from
child support obligations because of her
condition.

For my part, I'm researching the medical
aspects as best I can. For example, I'd
like to know what the consensus is about
smoking and spinal fusion. The original surgeon
said she had to be nicotine-free for six
weeks before the operation. But I've found
one Web site where two weeks is mandated.
OldGoat - 12 Jun 2007 20:30 GMT
Dear KW,

Your evaluation of the physicians involved is a clear indication of your
next step. Get her away from those doctors. Perhaps you will find this study
in your searches, it was a fairly recent one done over a couple year period
but the results were out within the last 2 years that fusion and Physical
Therapy end up having the exact same success rate. Surgery is a crapshoot
almost always. Fusing the vertebra always put more load on the level above
and level below, usually resulting in multiple fusions. Not a good long term
prospective for a young girl, or anyone of any age, but she's got a lot
longer way left to go depending on this outcome than most to of us do.
If the situation is stable for now and there's no risk of a bone fragment
cutting in to something vital, I'd be more interested in the diagnosis as
opposed to what the ambulance chasers are calling for as resolution. Is
there fragmented bone? A bulging or damaged disk? Why the cutting is
necessary, more so than their intent.
An MRI report should be written in enough semi layman to sitdown with a
dictionary (medical or otherwise- a medical one may be more complex than
needed) and pick through the diagnosis to arrive at something more
understandable. There's also a test called an EMG that is essentially a
nerve conduction study. It involves needles and electronic current but
should give you an idea of the nerve being affected. That should open up the
options for alternatives to fusion or surgery all together, the whole idea
being avoiding the knife and if not an option avoiding fusion.
There's a relatively new procedure where the actually replace the disk with
an artificial one, maintaining flexibility rather than hindering it by
immobilizing the joint. We have very few people that have come through here
having had it done. Being a chronic pain group that can mean a lot of
things. It could be very successful and not leaving many in pain so they
don't have need for this kind of support group. It could be terrible and
kill people before they get a chance to get on the net to complain about it.
Or maybe there just aren't many having it done. Fusing is definitely the
more popular of the procedures and they do lots of it, but is it the better
alternative? As many succeed as fail (we get the majority that fail in here,
but such is the nature of our group) Docs tend to stick with what they know
best as a solution, that doesn't make it the best automatically, just the
default procedure.
I would tend to doubt the word of any doctor that says it's an emergency at
the moment, simply for the fact they went for physical therapy first. If the
circumstances were dire, her first stop would have been the Operating room
and this thread would be moot (love that word-moot).
I'd like to hear more of the MRI report and the EMG if one was performed. It
should be a page or two max on the MRI report and the EMG should only be a
line or two. That will help a lot in advising you. And please remember as
someone else mentioned we're not medical professionals. Professional
patients maybe, but that doesn't qualify us to make the big(or little)
decisions.
One thing I would suggest or advise is that for the most part, pain control
will not affect test results, so there's no reason for lack of pain control.
Addiction is a bug-a-boo and a poor excuse for keeping a young girl in pain.
Age could be, depending on the choice of medication. Be wary of
acetaminophen containing drugs. Even the Tylenol guys, probably the best
known and sold variety of the drug, caution use for more than 10 days in a
row. I'll stop right there as I usually write books (not that this is a
short post by any means), on the dangers of that class of medications. 4000
milligrams is the dose ceiling per day and it sounds like alot, but it can
easily accumulate to that much when there are many drugs being taken and an
occasional  couple of extra strength Tylenol popped in for headache or
something here or there.
The more diagnostic info you can toss our way the easier it would be for you
and us to search out alternatives to the knife. Type of docs is helpful too.
She should have seen at least one orthopedic and one neurological doc for a
consult.

Give her our best wishes for a painless day--og

> My 35-year-old stepdaughter is at a
> juncture on the road to anterior
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> I thought I'd query now for any good
> resources that folks may know about.
Jason James - 12 Jun 2007 22:31 GMT
> Dear KW,
>
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
>
> Give her our best wishes for a painless day--og

Some good points about Surgeons,..OG. I was amazed by a comment the head of
a pain-clinic in a major Sydney hosp said to me ie "I dont want to see you
at the door of a neuro-surgeon, in a couple of years" This comment was made
in the context of him saying his implant procedure was paramount and not to
be taken as a "suck and see" move by the patient.
This comment demonstrated beyond doubt that many various specialists do
think their specialty *is* the duck's guts. One would have thought, these
highly paid professionals were beyond such petty competitiveness, instead
honoring each others fields of expeertise, and thus work as a team for what
is best for the patient.

Jason
kleinwerden@yahoo.com - 14 Jun 2007 12:14 GMT
> Dear KW,
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> prospective for a young girl, or anyone of any age, but she's got a lot
> longer way left to go depending on this outcome than most to of us do.

At least she'll be getting a second opinion, having been dumped by one
set of doctors.
 
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