Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Lupus / December 2003
Methotrexate Update & Other News
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JDWAT@webtv.net - 22 Dec 2003 17:15 GMT Well, I did it. I woke up with a mouth full of assertive words & various phrases & called the pharmacy first to get prices & then the doctor. I was told that I'd have to come for my shot tomorrow (Tuesday) if I got one this week, cause come Wed., they were locking up & going home. That means if they don't call in the MTX, I'll be down for Christmas from the shot.
I asked for a 10ml bottle vs. the 2ml as it was just $15.00 more for 5x's the amount. I told her that I'd take it by mouth if they didn't want me to do the shot. I'd come in at night, every fourth week & do my lab. If I missed a lab, they could punish me by making me spend twice more on 2ml bottles. : )
I spent the better part of two days in bed, asleep. My Neck & back really took a beating from cleaning snow off my car's roof. If my brother hadn't done it for the second snow we got just 3 days later, I'd really be bumming. Well, I take that back. I'd a just cleaned the windows & drove it around until it all blew off.
I did read some & see that Grace is back with us. Will keep you in my prayers for complete recovery Grace. It did my heart good to see you post.
Cindy W. I'll go find your post & get to know you a bit. I'm glad to learn you posted. You have been missed around here & Iook forward to getting to know you.
Wishing you all a meaningful & very Merry Christmas,
Maggie
NW - 22 Dec 2003 18:49 GMT Sounds good, Maggie. Much better to be able to take the shots at home. It's unfortunate that you get nausea even from the injections, though. I don't feel a thing from my 20 mg pills. Sometimes I suspect they are just sliding trough me and coming out undigested. Oh well.
Happy Holidays to you too!
Nina
Mercy - 22 Dec 2003 19:08 GMT Nina, she is not injecting.... she is putting the liquid into a drink and still ingesting it.... thus the tummy problems. I am trying to convince her to some how get somebody to show her how to inject. I hope she is successful with this.
Nettie
> Sounds good, Maggie. Much better to be able to take the shots at home. It's > unfortunate that you get nausea even from the injections, though. I don't feel a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Nina NW - 22 Dec 2003 19:22 GMT > Nina, she is not injecting.... she is putting the liquid into a drink and > still ingesting it.... thus the tummy problems. I am trying to convince her > to some how get somebody to show her how to inject. I hope she is > successful with this. Nope, she usually gets injections at her doctor, but has taken MTX into a drink only the last couple of weeks.
Nina
Mercy - 22 Dec 2003 19:37 GMT Right.... what I mean is that she is not self injecting at home. I hope she can learn to do this to help her tummy. This is what I had to do and it really helps a lot. You only do it SubQ too so there is no pain involved.
Nettie
> > Nina, she is not injecting.... she is putting the liquid into a drink and > > still ingesting it.... thus the tummy problems. I am trying to convince her [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Nina NW - 22 Dec 2003 19:44 GMT > Right.... what I mean is that she is not self injecting at home. I hope > she can learn to do this to help her tummy. This is what I had to do and it > really helps a lot. You only do it SubQ too so there is no pain involved. Yes, it's really easy. I don't feel a thing from my Enbrel shots. Just like sticking into butter!
Nina
JDWAT@webtv.net - 22 Dec 2003 20:02 GMT Okay, I'll try an injection next week? I don't want to do it this week cause one, I promised to "take it by mouth, for now." My exact words. And two, no way can I build up the nerve by Thursday. I normally get it Wed., but she has already called & told me Thurs. evening would be fine. That way, I'm not down on Christmas Day.
I have short needles here. Is that sufficient for the tummy? I think it'd probably do better in the thigh with short insulin needles, wouldn't it?
I have to go get the MTX soon, so will check back in later. Thank you Nettie & Nina! Nina & Nettie? That sounds kewel. : )
Hugs, Maggie
Mercy - 23 Dec 2003 01:33 GMT Short needles are fine cuz you are only going into the upper layers of your skin. Make sure you pull back on the plunger a tad first before pushing in the MTX. You want to make sure you are not into a blood vessel. If you see blood when you pull back, take it out and find a new place. I do them in my thigh or sometimes my husband will give it to me in the fatty upper hip area. Whatever works for you. I have never done it into my abdomen. Good luck and write me if you need to.
Nettie
> Okay, I'll try an injection next week? I don't want to do it this week > cause one, I promised to "take it by mouth, for now." My exact words. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Hugs, > Maggie JDWAT@webtv.net - 22 Dec 2003 19:40 GMT Hi Nina!
I keep meaning to ask you about the dose you're on. They told me that I can't take the pills if I'm on more than 17.5mg. Has anyone ever told you this? I wonder if there are different types of MTX or something?
Actually, I'm not going to be taking injections.....yet. I do have 20 insulin needles at my disposal, however. For the last 3 weeks I have mixed the liquid in juice & drank it. It hasn't bothered me thus far, but I am careful to not eat high fat foods & gobs of protein in one sitting the day or so before my dose as well as the couple of days following. This has made all the difference. If I do get nauseated, I have the syringes ready & I'm willing, but I promised I'd do the liquid for now. I was worried that they'd make me come in for an injection class or something & I am scared to go to the hospital with the flu running rampant through the halls.
: ) I know how to do the injections, but when someone of authority tells me no, then my head creates this fear of death & even worse.....eating crow! :-þ
Hugs, Maggie
NW - 22 Dec 2003 20:07 GMT My old RD said more than 20 mg should be taken as injections, but I'll ask my new RD when I see him.
Hopefully you'll keep on doing well on the liquid stuff,
Nina
Hi Nina!
I keep meaning to ask you about the dose you're on. They told me that I can't take the pills if I'm on more than 17.5mg. Has anyone ever told you this? I wonder if there are different types of MTX or something?
Actually, I'm not going to be taking injections.....yet. I do have 20 insulin needles at my disposal, however. For the last 3 weeks I have mixed the liquid in juice & drank it. It hasn't bothered me thus far, but I am careful to not eat high fat foods & gobs of protein in one sitting the day or so before my dose as well as the couple of days following. This has made all the difference. If I do get nauseated, I have the syringes ready & I'm willing, but I promised I'd do the liquid for now. I was worried that they'd make me come in for an injection class or something & I am scared to go to the hospital with the flu running rampant through the halls.
: ) I know how to do the injections, but when someone of authority tells me no, then my head creates this fear of death & even worse.....eating crow! :-?
Hugs, Maggie
Mercy - 23 Dec 2003 01:29 GMT Maggie, MTX should not be taken with Vit. C or folic acid.... so don't drink orange juice with your MTX and skip the folic acid until the following day. Good luck.
Nettie
Hi Nina!
I keep meaning to ask you about the dose you're on. They told me that I can't take the pills if I'm on more than 17.5mg. Has anyone ever told you this? I wonder if there are different types of MTX or something?
Actually, I'm not going to be taking injections.....yet. I do have 20 insulin needles at my disposal, however. For the last 3 weeks I have mixed the liquid in juice & drank it. It hasn't bothered me thus far, but I am careful to not eat high fat foods & gobs of protein in one sitting the day or so before my dose as well as the couple of days following. This has made all the difference. If I do get nauseated, I have the syringes ready & I'm willing, but I promised I'd do the liquid for now. I was worried that they'd make me come in for an injection class or something & I am scared to go to the hospital with the flu running rampant through the halls.
: ) I know how to do the injections, but when someone of authority tells me no, then my head creates this fear of death & even worse.....eating crow! :-?
Hugs, Maggie
NW - 23 Dec 2003 10:36 GMT > Maggie, MTX should not be taken with Vit. C or folic acid.... so don't drink > orange juice with your MTX and skip the folic acid until the following day. > Good luck. Nettie, are you sure about the vitamin C stuff? I've never heard or read that MTX shouldn't be taken with that. RxList doesn't mention vitamin C either. http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/mtx_wcp.htm
Nina
Mercy - 23 Dec 2003 18:13 GMT I am getting this info from a fella who know a lot about nutrition, etc. He said not to so I don't just to be on the safe side. It is not a big deal to not take it IMO... just for that one day. Also, I have heard to never take your meds with grapefruit juice. It can cause a bad tummy reaction.
Just passing along info that I have heard to you. Don't bet your buttie on it though. But for me, I trust this person and do what he suggests. Hope this helps you.
Nettie :>))
> > Maggie, MTX should not be taken with Vit. C or folic acid.... so don't drink > > orange juice with your MTX and skip the folic acid until the following day. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Nina JDWAT@webtv.net - 23 Dec 2003 19:06 GMT Aww Flitter! I hope your wrong about the Vit C. The nurse told me to take it with juice & that's what I've been doing. I haven't been taking OJ, but most juice has a good amount, I think.
Speaking of....Did you know that grapefruit juice can cause certain meds to become more potent in your system. They were studying it when I was on Imuran. I'd say I read this about 1996 or '97 maybe. They warned against taking immunosupressants in combo with grapefruit. Also blood thinners & other serious meds. In fact they were hoping to come up with a way to help people take less meds by supplementing it with grapefruit. I have never heard another thing about it since, but I found it so interesting at the time. They may have discovered they were wrong or maybe the pharmaceutical company's sent the researches to Bermuda, via the triangle. :-Þ
Hugs4uBoth, Maggie
J - 23 Dec 2003 19:39 GMT > Aww Flitter! I hope your wrong about the Vit C. The nurse told me to > take it with juice & that's what I've been doing. I haven't been taking > OJ, but most juice has a good amount, I think. > > Speaking of....Did you know that grapefruit juice can cause certain meds > to become more potent in your system. T http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/english/iyh/food/grapefruit.html Canadian Gov't webpage
Consuming grapefruit or its juice (fresh or frozen) can increase, or less commonly decrease, the effects of some drugs. There are several substances in grapefruit that interfere with the way your body handles certain drugs.
These effects are known to be caused by the combination of grapefruit and its juice with certain drugs and health products used in the treatment of medical conditions, including, but not limited to:
<see list>
Sour oranges, such as Seville, or their juice, may have an effect similar to grapefruit juice. Most other citrus fruits, such as lemons, limes, citrons, naturally sweet oranges and tangerines are not thought to have this effect. However, tangellos, a hybrid of grapefruit, may also interfere with drugs.
... Canadian "Dartmouth Community Medical School" <http://www.dartmouth.edu/dms/news/publications/dartmed/fall00/html/bench_to_beds ide.shtml>
So far, the medications known to interact with grapefruit juice include immunosuppressant drugs (such as cyclosporine); calcium channel blockers (felodipine, amlodipine, verapamil, nifedipine, nisoldipine), which are used to treat blood pressure or angina; many sedatives and anxiolytics (midazolam, triazolam, alprazolam); certain hormones (estrogens and corticosteroids); antihistamines (astemizole and terfenadine, the latter now unavailable in the United States); certain antiseizure drugs (carbamazepine); many of the statin drugs (atorvastatin, simvastatin, lovastatin), which are used to lower blood lipids; and certain drugs used to treat AIDS (the protease inhibitors ritonavir, saquinivir, and indinavir). Other drugs are continually being added to this list.
As far as we know, no other fruits--such as apples, oranges, or cranberries (or their juices)-- have the same effect that grapefruit does. The grapefruit effect is probably due to certain of its chemical components--6',7'-dihydroxybergamottin (a furanocoumarin) and/or naringin or naringenin (both flavonoids)--which are thought to inhibit the CYP3A4 enzyme in the small intestine.
We know we must make physicians and patients aware of how grapefruit juice can affect many oral medications, but efforts to bring the issue to public attention have had varied success around the world. Australia seems to be at the forefront: pharmacists there are required by law to attach labels to containers of cyclosporine, felodipine, midazolam, nifedipine, nisoldipine, quinidine, terazosin, terfenadine, and triazolam stating: "Avoid eating grapefruit and drinking grapefruit juice while being treated with this medication." But other known grapefruit-drug interactions that could cause considerable morbidity have not been so overtly flagged. And in the U.S., the warnings that appear in even the most recent edition (2000) of the Physicians' Desk Reference are not comprehensive,
??
JDWAT@webtv.net - 23 Dec 2003 19:51 GMT Wow! So, they did finish the study. Thanks for that J! : )
Hope you have a Merry Christmas!
aHug4u, Maggie
J - 24 Dec 2003 10:45 GMT > Wow! So, they did finish the study. Thanks for that J! : ) > > Hope you have a Merry Christmas! Thanks and same to you, Maggie. I did not draw the same conclusion. One had more information than the other, but one said the PDA was not up to date. So I drink water :-) J
Mercy - 23 Dec 2003 20:15 GMT Thanks J for the info..... by the way, what was that private e-mail all about? I do not understand. I wrote you back. What is going on? I am at a total loss of understanding about that situation.
Nettie
> > Aww Flitter! I hope your wrong about the Vit C. The nurse told me to > > take it with juice & that's what I've been doing. I haven't been taking [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > ... > Canadian "Dartmouth Community Medical School" <http://www.dartmouth.edu/dms/news/publications/dartmed/fall00/html/bench_to _bedside.shtml>
> So far, the medications known to interact with grapefruit juice include > immunosuppressant drugs (such as cyclosporine); calcium channel blockers [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > ?? Larry Walker - 24 Dec 2003 02:31 GMT How true, I have a little sticker on my prescription warning not to take grapefruit or juice with MTX.
>>>---LDW----> ===================================================----------
>> Aww Flitter! I hope your wrong about the Vit C. The nurse told me to >> take it with juice & that's what I've been doing. I haven't been taking [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > >?? Mercy - 23 Dec 2003 20:11 GMT That is very interesting..... thanks for the feedback.
Nettie
Aww Flitter! I hope your wrong about the Vit C. The nurse told me to take it with juice & that's what I've been doing. I haven't been taking OJ, but most juice has a good amount, I think.
Speaking of....Did you know that grapefruit juice can cause certain meds to become more potent in your system. They were studying it when I was on Imuran. I'd say I read this about 1996 or '97 maybe. They warned against taking immunosupressants in combo with grapefruit. Also blood thinners & other serious meds. In fact they were hoping to come up with a way to help people take less meds by supplementing it with grapefruit. I have never heard another thing about it since, but I found it so interesting at the time. They may have discovered they were wrong or maybe the pharmaceutical company's sent the researches to Bermuda, via the triangle. :-?
Hugs4uBoth, Maggie
janers - 23 Dec 2003 19:26 GMT Never take grapefruit juice with some HEART and or bp medications. It effects the way the medication works. It has nothing to do with stomach being upset or irritated it has to do with the absorption of the drug. Ask your pharmacist about any heart or bp med and IF the grapefruit juice will effect it. Most will put it on the label, but some just do not. sad.... . As far as Vitamin C? I have never heard it effecting mtx or any other drug but HEY, what do I know. tee hee
Vitamin C right now is what everyone needs to up due to the flu season. It was in the paper and also on some journals of medicine. It is suppose to ward off the little bugs ya pick up.
janers
Mercy - 23 Dec 2003 20:13 GMT I was told to just not take Vit C the day I take MTX.... the next day I can continue. Also no folic acid the day I take MTX because it could hinder to absorption or something of the MTX so I wouldn't get the full benefit.
Nettie
> Never take grapefruit juice with some HEART and or bp medications. It > effects the way the medication works. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > janers Leeb57 - 23 Dec 2003 23:55 GMT Maggie,
Are you taking folic acid? grape seed extract? my wife takes both of those to cut down on some nausea.
Also, try breaking your weekly shot into an AM and PM does that helps the body "accept" it better.
Lee
JDWAT@webtv.net - 24 Dec 2003 01:03 GMT Hi Lee!
Good to hear from you & thanks for responding! I didn't realize you could break the shot down like you do pills. I guess it never occured to me as I've been going to the doctor to get it. Now, I'm like; well of course you can. The doctor can't do this though cuz Medicare will have a cow! lol!
I'm going to enjoy doing this at home, I'll tell ya that now. The nausea probably won't bother me too much, just *because* I can do it at home. I can live with some nausea so long as I'm in the comfort of me own pail. : ) I am going to try the Folic Acid though. I was so excited when the nurse called me back that I forgot all about asking her how much they wanted me to take of it.
I hope you have a wonderful Christmas, you & your wife Tell her hello, will ya. Whenever she's up to posting, we'll be glad to meet her.
Hugs, Maggie
Mercy - 22 Dec 2003 19:06 GMT Maggie, can you find a nurse that can teach you how to inject? There has got to be a way. It will help your tummy. You can purchase diabetic needles. There is absolutely no pain in doing it this way. Or else, ask a diabetic insulin dependent person to show you how. Your tummy will love you for it. Guarantee!!
Nettie
> Well, I did it. I woke up with a mouth full of assertive words & > various phrases & called the pharmacy first to get prices & then the [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Maggie
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