Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Lupus / August 2008
Evidence of Hemolysis In Lupus
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ironjustice@aol.com - 19 Jul 2008 18:20 GMT In lupus they have .. "no idea" .. what .. causes it.
They have .. theories.
All the markers the medical profession use to assess the overall picture of a person with lupus points to the fact they HAVE iron **overload**.
That is using .. science .. reason .. logic.
Iron IN the skin sooo .. MUCH they are targeting the iron SPECIFICALLY in lupus patients with "new sunscreen containing iron binders."
First .. ferritin .. is an iron storage compartment. It is raised in EVERYONE with lupus / hyperferritinemia. Lupus is CLOSELY linked to two different diseases so far established and **accepted**. Thalassemia and Sickle Cell anemia. Sickle Cell anemia and Thalassemia are iron LOADING diseases. They are what is called Hemolytic / hemolysis .. anemias. Hemolysis is the breaking down of a red blood cell. They have low red blood cells / broken cells. NOT no iron .. just no .. red .. blood .. cells. The red blood cells .. lysis / break down / hemolysis.
Hence .. hemo-lysis. . The doctors looks at a person with lupus and says "you are .. iron deficient" .. because .. ? They have "low red blood cells" . When in FACT .. all .. the markers ACCEPTED by .. **reasonable** .. men .. sayyyy .. ?
They are iron overloaded and ARE experiencing **hemolysis** JUST like sickle and thalassemia.
Creatine kinase .. "signof hemolysis raised" .. Ferritin .. "marker of iron stores really high" .. D-dimer "mark of hemolysis in thrombosis found in high amounts" .. Urate dehydrogenase "sign of red blood cell hemolysis raised " Porphyrins "mark of hemolysis raised" Erythropoietin "erythropoietin is either normal or low in a state of iron sufficiency. It is normal"
Fatigue .. debilitating .. fatigue .. PROVEN to be CAUSED by **hemolysis** and experienced by everyone with lupus.
All diseases .. so far .. that HAVE been linked to lupus are iron loading .. NOW .. porphyria cutanea tarda.
"Photosensitivity"
But .. not .. lupus .
Porphyrins come from a destroyed red blood cell.
And .. their 'take' .. "75% of people with lupus are iron DEFICIENT" ..
The number one and two treatments are the very treatments they use for increased red blood cell production in iron overload. Cyclophosphamide / phebotomy the preferred alternative and radioactive- phosphorus which was REPLACED by phebotomy because of the deaths caused by radioactive-phosphorus.
The odds .. odds .. say .. there is something wrong in Denmark WHEN .. all the diseases associated with lupus are iron overloaded and LUPUS .. "everyone is iron deficient."
Just something to .. wonder about .. in the world of .. "paradoxes" ..
Yeah .. right ..
Target the hemolysis .. "which isn't there" ..
Vitamin E deficiency causes hemolysis. Hemolyis is now being treated with tocopherol..
Phlebotomy / iron reduction .. "just so happens to coincidentally" .. remove lesions in the centre of the face.
Phlebotomy / iron reduction is the treatment for EVERY disease associated to lupus and it has never been tested in lupus .. because everyone is .. anemic.
Anemic ..
"Low red blood cells" .. but NO .. "iron deficiency" .. using **reason**.
Anyone want to .. bet .. ?
Oh yeah .. somebody already .. did ..
I wonder how the sales are going for the "iron binding sunscreen targeting lupus patients".. ?
Anyone .. invest .. ?
http://tinyurl.com/5zelvp
Photoprotective Iron Chelator Technology
"The trials initially will focus on individuals with the autoimmune disease lupus, who are extremely sensitive to the sun."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/09/060910143024.htm
Who loves ya. Tom
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ironjustice@aol.com - 19 Jul 2008 18:57 GMT On Jul 19, 10:20 am, "ironjust...@aol.com" <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote: hemolytic anemia <<
I guess it is well KNOWN .. hemolysis DOES .. happen in Lupus JUST like sickle cell.
http://www.itzarion.com/lupusanemia.html
If this were a .. drug.
"Striking decrease of hospitalization days" "Viscosity"
Arch Pediatr 2000 Mar;7(3):249-55 [Prevention of sickle cell crises with multiple phlebotomies].
Bouchair N, Manigne P, Kanfer A, Raphalen P, de Montalembert M, Hagege I, Verschuur A, Maier-Redelsperger M, Girot R Service de pediatrie, CHU, Constantine, Algerie.
OBJECTIVES: Sickle cell disease patients suffering from frequent painful crises were submitted to phlebotomies in order to reduce hospitalization days due to pain, through hemoglobin (Hb) level reduction and iron deficiency in patients with an hemoglobin level equal to or above 9.5 g/dL.
PATIENTS: Seven sickle cell disease patients (four SC, three SS), aged four to 24 years, were submitted to sequential phlebotomies during periods from 18 months to four years.
METHODS: The number of hospitalization days for crises was considered. The volumes and frequencies of phlebotomies were adjusted according to the patients ages, the hemoglobin concentrations and the serum ferritin levels.
RESULTS: One hundred and forty-four hospitalization days were recorded in the seven patients in the year preceding the treatment. During the study period, the annual numbers of hospitalization days were respectively 20, five, six and one. Mean hemoglobin concentration was 10.7 g/dL before phlebotomies and 8.8 to 9.2 g/dL during the four years of treatment. Mean corpuscular volume, mean corpuscular hemoglobin concentration and serum ferritin were also reduced. The volume of phlebotomies was 116 to 39 mL/kg/year according to the patients. COMMENTS AND CONCLUSION: The striking decrease of the number of hospitalization days for all the patients suggests a closed relationship between therapy and clinical improvement. The mechanism of this effect is probably multifactorial: a) the concentration of Hb level is known to influence the blood viscosity and its decrease always improved rheology in sickle cell disease patients; b) the mean corpuscular hemoglobin concentration is a critical factor concerning the HbS molecule polymerization in sickle cell disease, and its slight reduction may have an important biological effect. We observed these two biological modifications in our patients and suggest that they mediate the clinical effects. The iron deficiency induced by phlebotomies has no evident deleterious consequence either on height and weight in the children or on intellectual performance in any patients.
PMID: 10761600, UI: 20224666 ----------------------
"Hb of 5.5 g/dl be used as an indication for transfusion"
Annals of Clinical and Laboratory Science, Vol 24, Issue 5, 396-400 Copyright © 1994 by Association of Clinical Scientists
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Articles
When to transfuse blood in sickle cell disease? Lessons from Jehovah's Witnesses ES Pearlman and SK Ballas
Hemoglobin concentration of 7 to 8 g/dl has been considered an indication for transfusion in the general adult population and has also been frequently applied to patients with sickle cell disease (SCD). Through a review of the case histories of two patients with SCD who were also Jehovah's Witnesses and developed severe anemia, and considering as well the clinical characteristics of this population and the basic physiology of oxygen transport, the appropriateness is questioned of this transfusion "trigger" in patients with SCD. It is suggested for the latter that a Hb of 5.5 g/dl be used as an indication for transfusion except in very specific clinical circumstances.
Copyright © 1994 by the Association of Clinical Scientists.
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Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> In lupus they have .. "no idea" .. what .. causes it. > [quoted text clipped - 118 lines] > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk ferrous@ironcity.com - 20 Jul 2008 01:03 GMT "Thalassemia and Sickle Cell anemia. Sickle Cell anemia and Thalassemia are iron LOADING diseases."
Nope, they are genetic disorders which are mutations to a specific disease. What is that disease? How can it provide relief from that disease? How do they relate geographically to that disease? Them thar questions ain't gonna go away.
"All the markers the medical profession use to assess the overall picture of a person with lupus points to the fact they HAVE iron **overload**.
That is using .. science .. reason .. logic."
Nope, here is the definitions of various forms oflupis:
* Systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE), commonly known as "Lupus". When the term 'lupus' is used without modification, it usually means SLE, especially in a medical context. + Drug-induced lupus erythematosus, a drug-induced form of SLE + Lupus nephritis, an inflammation of the kidneys caused by SLE, when anti-DNA antibodies, which the body makes, precipitate in the kidneys. * Lupus pernio, a feature of sarcoidosis. * Lupus vulgaris, a feature of cutaneous tuberculosis * Lupus anticoagulant, an antibody causing a delay in coagulation
Jesus ate a mediterranean diet.
ironjustice@aol.com - 20 Jul 2008 01:12 GMT On Jul 19, 5:03 pm, ferr...@ironcity.com wrote: snip <<
Three strikes you are .. out ..
Don't you know that .. ?
You may think in your mind you have something to add .. evidentally your are wrong.
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
ironjustice@aol.com - 20 Jul 2008 03:16 GMT On Jul 19, 10:20 am, "ironjust...@aol.com" <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote: Urate dehydrogenase "sign of red blood cell hemolysis raised " <<
Whoops ..
Lactic acid dehydrogenase .. NOT urate dehydrogenase ..
"Serum LDH is a criterion for hemolysis. LDH is not specific because it is ubiquitous and can be released from the neoplastic cells of the liver or other damaged organs. Although an increase in LDH isozyme 1 and 2 is more specific for RBC destruction, these enzymes are also increased in patients with myocardial infarction."
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> In lupus they have .. "no idea" .. what .. causes it. > [quoted text clipped - 118 lines] > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk ironjustice - 07 Aug 2008 19:13 GMT On Jul 19, 10:20 am, "ironjust...@aol.com" <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote:"ironbinding sunscreen targeting lupus patients".. <<
"UVA-induced necrotic cell death reflects the intracellular level of LIP (iron) "
J Invest Dermatol. 2004 Oct;123(4):771-80. Related Articles, Links
Susceptibility of Skin Cells to UVA-induced Necrotic Cell Death Reflects the Intracellular Level of Labile Iron.
Zhong JL, Yiakouvaki A, Holley P, Tyrrell RM, Pourzand C.
Department of Pharmacy and Pharmacology, University of Bath, Bath, UK.
The mechanism of resistance of keratinocytes to ultraviolet A (UVA) (320-400 nm)-induced oxidative damage has not yet been elucidated. Here, we examined the possible link between the intracellular level of the labile iron pool (LIP) and the susceptibility to UVA-induced cell death using a series of human skin fibroblast and keratinocyte cell lines as a model. Resistance of keratinocytes to UVA-induced cell death was confirmed by flow cytometry and in fibroblasts necrosis was found to be the primary mode of cell death induced by UVA. The percentage of necrosis in fibroblasts also correlated with the extent of intracellular ATP depletion, a hallmark of necrotic cell death. The evaluation of the intracellular level of LIP by calcein assay revealed that both "basal" and "UVA-induced" levels of LIP in keratinocytes were several fold lower than in fibroblasts. Accordingly the dose to give an equivalent level of necrosis was several fold lower in fibroblasts than in keratinocytes. Furthermore, the modulation of "basal" or "UVA-induced" level of LIP by either Desferal and/or hemin treatment significantly affected the extent of UVA-induced necrotic cell death and ATP depletion in all the cell lines. Cellular susceptibility to UVA-induced necrotic cell death appears to reflect the intracellular level of LIP.
PMID: 15373784 [PubMed - in process]
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Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> In lupus they have .. "no idea" .. what .. causes it. > [quoted text clipped - 118 lines] > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk jay - 07 Aug 2008 19:37 GMT > In lupus they have .. "no idea" .. what .. causes it. > > All the markers the medical profession use to assess the overall > picture of a person with lupus points to the fact they HAVE iron > **overload**. POPs accumulated in human tissue during the past 1 to 3 decades, will continue to provide a broad range of effects for decades to come by triggering AhR-mediated cellular functions.TCDD, a potent dioxin, triggers iron-requiring, detox enzyme production. Unforetunately, the dexo enzyme can't detox TCDD. TCDD has a half life of approx 10 years in the human body.
Effects of contamination level of dioxins and related chemicals on thyroid hormone and immune response systems in patients with "Yusho". Effects of polychlorinated dibenzo-p-dioxins (PCDDs), polychlorinated dibenzofurans (PCDFs) and coplanar polychlorinated biphenyls (Co-PCBs) on thyroid hormone and immune response systems were examined in 16 Yusho patients at about 30 years after the outbreak of the Yusho accident. Their toxic equivalent (TEQ) levels in the blood were 27.8-1048.5 pg/g fat with the median level of 222.4 pg/g fat, which was about seven times higher than that of healthy Japanese people. Even at such high blood TEQ concentrations, they seemed not to affect the serum levels of thyroid hormones, thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH), immunoglobulins (A, G and M), autoantibodies (antinuclear antibody, rheumatoid and lupus erythematosus (LE) factors), and lymphocyte subsets in the blood. However, positive rates of rheumatoid factor were considered to increase in higher blood TEQ groups. This investigation was done using rather small number of Yusho patients, so further large-scale investigations are needed to get more conclusive findings concerning their effects on thyroid hormone and immune response systems. PMID: 11372817
Control of T(reg) and T(H)17 cell differentiation by the aryl hydrocarbon receptor. Regulatory T cells (T(reg)) expressing the transcription factor Foxp3 control the autoreactive components of the immune system. The development of T(reg) cells is reciprocally related to that of pro- inflammatory T cells producing interleukin-17 (T(H)17). Although T(reg) cell dysfunction and/or T(H)17 cell dysregulation are thought to contribute to the development of autoimmune disorders, little is known about the physiological pathways that control the generation of these cell lineages. Here we report the identification of the ligand- activated transcription factor aryl hydrocarbon receptor (AHR) as a regulator of T(reg) and T(H)17 cell differentiation in mice. AHR activation by its ligand 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin induced functional T(reg) cells that suppressed experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis. On the other hand, AHR activation by 6- formylindolo[3,2-b]carbazole interfered with T(reg) cell development, boosted T(H)17 cell differentiation and increased the severity of experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis in mice. Thus, AHR regulates both T(reg) and T(H)17 cell differentiation in a ligand-specific fashion, constituting a unique target for therapeutic immunomodulation. PMID: 18362915
The aryl hydrocarbon receptor links TH17-cell-mediated autoimmunity to environmental toxins. The aryl hydrocarbon receptor (AHR) is a ligand-dependent transcription factor best known for mediating the toxicity of dioxin. Environmental factors are believed to contribute to the increased prevalence of autoimmune diseases, many of which are due to the activity of T(H)17 T cells, a new helper T-cell subset characterized by the production of the cytokine IL-17. Here we show that in the CD4+ T-cell lineage of mice AHR expression is restricted to the T(H)17 cell subset and its ligation results in the production of the T(H)17 cytokine interleukin (IL)-22. AHR is also expressed in human T(H)17 cells. Activation of AHR by a high-affinity ligand during T(H)17 cell development markedly increases the proportion of T(H)17 T cells and their production of cytokines. CD4+ T cells from AHR-deficient mice can develop T(H)17 cell responses, but when confronted with AHR ligand fail to produce IL-22 and do not show enhanced T(H)17 cell development. AHR activation during induction of experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis causes accelerated onset and increased pathology in wild-type mice, but not AHR-deficient mice. AHR ligands may therefore represent co-factors in the development of autoimmune diseases. PMID: 18362914
ironjustice - 07 Aug 2008 20:00 GMT On Aug 7, 11:37 am, jay <jaym1...@hotmail.com> wrote:the fact they HAVE iron **overload**. <<
I actually think .. since dioxin results IN .. iron overload .. you should actually be pointing that OUT .. in your posts.
Unless you don't understand the RESULT .. of .. dioxin .. ?
Is that .. it .. ?
You don't understand the iron levels .. ?
There is increased IRON in the skin of people with lupus.
Is there not .. ?
It is being targeted with iron chelators .. ?
Is it not .. ?
The article posted points TO .. iron .. BEING .. involved IN skin necrosis when exposed to .. sunlight.
Sooo .. one might assume you would start a thread about .. dioxin .. and explain how it causes .. iron overload.
Doesn't explain much up to .. what .. thirty years ago .. though.
WHAT do you think was the cause of lupus before .. dioxin .. ?
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> > In lupus they have .. "no idea" .. what .. causes it. > [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > may therefore represent co-factors in the development of autoimmune > diseases. PMID: 18362914 jay - 07 Aug 2008 21:22 GMT > I actually think .. since dioxin results IN .. iron overload .. > you should actually be pointing that OUT .. in your posts. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Sooo .. one might assume you would start a thread about .. dioxin .. > and explain how it causes .. iron overload. Cellular functions such as growth, differentiation, detoxification, death, etc are modulated by ligands binding with Aryl Hydrocarbon (Ah) Receptors dispersed with in cell's cytoplasm. The ligand-AhR complex translocate to the nucleus and alter cell's expression as encoded in it's genes. Apparently the ligand is involved in determining cell's response.
Persistent Organic Pollutants (ie PCBs, PAHs, HCA, dioxins) bind Ah Receptors. TCDD, a dioxin, is the most potent activator of the Ah Receptor. Among other things, TCDD causes cell's to manufacture detoxification enzymes (ie CYP1A1, CYP1A2, CYP1B1) which require iron. Thus TCDD exposure causes increase in cellular iron. The detox enzymes aren't efficient at detoxifying TCDD. TCDD has a half life of about 10 year in humans. Pharacuetical companies frequently drop a drug like a hot potato if it activates the AhR-mediated pathways.
Constantly enabling the AhR-mediated pathways produces a myriad of effects including ROS and DNA damage. Sometimes TCDD amplifies the detrimental effect of other POPs by detoxifying them to even more toxic intermediates. There seems to be some evidence of cross talk between AhR activation and COX and estrogen metabolism.
> Doesn't explain much up to .. what .. thirty years ago .. though. > WHAT do you think was the cause of lupus before .. dioxin .. ? The incomplete combustion of matter creates compounds that frequently bind the Ah Receptor. This includes smoke from cigarettes, wood, coal; charred meat, forest fires, volcanoes, etc. Due to differences in genetics, one person eating charred meat may develop colon cancer, while others may not.
jay - 07 Aug 2008 23:41 GMT > Constantly enabling the AhR-mediated pathways produces > a myriad of effects including ROS and DNA damage. > Sometimes TCDD amplifies the detrimental effect of other POPs > by detoxifying them to even more toxic intermediates. Even while POPs in dietary fats has been reducing, the amount in humans has been increasing due to TCDD's 10 year half life. Below is a list of symptoms associated with dioxin exposure. It was created by the Institute of Medicine (IOM) in 2007.
* Sufficient Evidence Chloracne Soft tissue sarcoma Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma Hodgkin’s disease Chronic lymphocytic leukaemia
*Limited/Suggestive Evidence Respiratory cancers (larynx, trachea, lung, bronchus) Prostate cancer Multiple myeloma Early-onset transient peripheral neuropathy Porphyria cutanea tarda Type 2 diabetes Spina bifida (in offspring) AL amyloidosis Hypertension
*Inadequate/Insufficient Evidence Hepatobiliary cancers Cancers of oral cavity, pharynx or nasal cavity Bone and joint cancer Cancers of pleura, mediastinum, and other unspecified sites within respiratory system and intrathoracic organs Oesophageal cancer Stomach cancer Colorectal cancer Pancreatic cancer Cancers of reproductive organs (cervix, uterus, ovary, testis, penis)Renal cancer Bladder cancer Leukaemia (other than CLL) Melanoma Non-melanoma skin cancers Breast cancer Cancers of brain and nervous system incl eye Endocrine cancers Cancers at other and unspecified sites Infertility Spontaneous abortion (other than for paternal TCDD exposure) Birth defects (other than spina bifida) Neonatal/infant death and stillbirth Low birth weight Childhood cancer in offspring incl AML Neurobehavioural disorders Movement disorders incl Parkinson’s disease and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis Chronic peripheral nervous system disorders Gastrointestinal, metabolic and digestive disorders Immune system disorders Ischaemic heart disease Circulatory disorders (other than hypertension and IHD) Respiratory disorders Endometriosis Effects on thyroid homeostasis
*Limited/Suggestive Evidence of No Association Spontaneous abortion and paternal TCDD exposure
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