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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Lupus / May 2006

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methotrexate injections and psychosomatic problems

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janice - 23 May 2006 20:27 GMT
For the last 4 or 5 months now I have been taken methotrexate by injection
and feel so much better now but it did take a long time coming. I take the
equivalent of 25 mg once a week.
The problem I have been having is that every time I even think about the
injection I feel sick to my stomach. I know it is all psychological. I know
a lot of it is due to the fact I can not stand the smell of rubbing alcohol
and I am now giving myself the injection while breathing through the mouth
so I don't smell it. It stings a bit when I first get the needle but I do
not know if that is the problem. I know it is all in my head. Does any body
have any ideas on how to deal with it? I don't want to go off of it because
of something that is all in my head.
I appreciate any help in this matter.
Janice in BC
Maggie - 23 May 2006 20:47 GMT
Hi Janice!

I was on Methotrexate for about 2 years, I guess.  I still get
nauseated thinking about the injection, even though needles or rubbing
alcohol doesn't bother me a bit.  The stuff made me nauseas in general,
so I think I just knew it would and it nauseated me thinking about it.
Well, anyway...my doc told me I could empty the syringe in a glass of
juice or something and drink it.

Please don't do it without okayin' it first though!

Otherwise, instead of rubbing alcohol, maybe you could use Bentadine or
whatever that brown stuff is that is used in surgery.  There's also
stuff like saline wound wash.  Maybe a pharmacist could advise you on
that?

Hugs,
Maggie
Andy - 23 May 2006 22:15 GMT
>Hi Janice!
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Please don't do it without okayin' it first though!

Seconded! Some medicines (eg insulin) are designed for injection, and
are made useless by the digestive system.

Also beware of the "grapefruit juice effect" - for a reason that I don't
understand certain medicines don't work properly if taken at the same
time as grapefruit juice, even though orange, tomato etc are OK.
Signature

Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group]
See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

so_discouraged@yahoo.com - 24 May 2006 09:37 GMT
> >Hi Janice!
> >
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group]
> See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

Hello everyone,
I have been reading the posts and had to respond to this one. I take
meds that must not have grapefruit in my diet, read lables, sometimes
it is part of a 'mix'.

Google grapefruit and medicines and it will bring up many things.

Here is one, not sure of proper posting.

http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/dailystar/114761

Grapefruit may sabotage meds

Many unaware of wide-ranging, serious interactions

By Carla McClain
Arizona Daily Star
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 02.07.2006

Like so many Tucsonans, John Duncan had a grapefruit tree in his back
yard and grew up eating the fruit, or drinking its juice, just about
every day.

With one of the Earth's most healthful foods always there for the
picking, Duncan never had an inkling that this habit might one day pose
a grave threat to his well-being.
But it did. That daily grapefruit has been blamed for the eventual
ruining of the healthy kidney given to him for transplant by his sister
when his own kidneys failed.

Along with many millions of Americans taking potent prescription
medicines, Duncan, 39, simply did not know that grapefruit and
grapefruit juice - long touted as being a great source of vitamin C,
good for the heart and helpful in weight control - can dramatically
change the effectiveness of many drugs.

In Duncan's case, the drug was cyclosporine - the vital
anti-rejection drug he had to take every morning to keep his body from
kicking out the donor kidney.

But the "grapefruit effect" goes way beyond transplant drugs. All of
the many millions of aging baby boomers taking drugs to control
cholesterol or high blood pressure could be harmed by that seemingly
innocent glass of grapefruit juice at breakfast.
So, too, are those taking medications for anxiety, insomnia or
depression, as well as for pain control, organ transplants and HIV
treatment. Even Viagra, the widely used impotence drug, is affected.
More than 30 commonly prescribed drugs now carry a warning against
ingesting grapefruit in any form. Although life-threatening effects are
rare, and the reaction varies widely with every individual, the danger
remains real - and too often unknown - scientists, doctors and
pharmacists warn.

"The effect in some of these drugs is quite profound," said Jude
McNally, managing director of the Arizona Poison Control and Drug
Information Center. "And there are a lot of medicines that have not
been tested that may be affected that we don't yet know about.

"You know a lot of prescriptions carry warnings against drinking
alcohol, yet people do it all the time," McNally continued. "But
grapefruit is different. People often call here, wondering if the
grapefruit warning is real. It is. This is not one of the
take-it-lightly warnings."

McNally himself stopped drinking grapefruit juice completely once he
started taking Zocor, a cholesterol-lowering drug known to be affected
by the fruit.

Zocor, along with Lipitor and Mevacor, are among the hugely popular
statin drugs that can zoom to high levels in the blood if taken with a
glass of grapefruit juice or a few grapefruit wedges, studies have
shown.

In some sensitive patients, this sudden and unexpected boost can
trigger a painful muscle disorder and possible effects on the heart and
kidneys.

What grapefruit does - unlike any other citrus fruit - is inhibit
an enzyme in the small intestine that slows down the metabolism of
certain drugs. With that enzyme turned off, unexpectedly high levels of
these drugs will flood into the bloodstream.

Some drugs, like some patients, react more strongly than others to the
grapefruit effect. The levels of the statin drug Mevacor, for example,
can jump twelvefold if taken around the same time as a glass of
grapefruit juice, while Lipitor gets a much lower spike.
Fortunately, the cholesterol-lowering drug Pravachol is not at all
affected by grapefruit, and doctors can prescribe it instead for
patients who refuse to give up their daily enjoyment of the citrus.

"Oh boy, do they ever resist it - they beg you. So many seem almost
addicted to the stuff," said Dr. Gordon Ewy, director of the University
of Arizona's Sarver Heart Center. As a cardiologist, Ewy constantly
warns patients about the potentially toxic effects of grapefruit
combined with many of the drugs he prescribes - including some blood
pressure and anti-arrhythmia drugs, as well as the statins.

"I think it's a bigger problem here than in other parts of the
country," he said. "So many of us have grapefruit trees right out the
back door."

Although most of these drugs carry printed warnings telling patients to
avoid eating grapefruit entirely, Ewy says he allows half a grapefruit
"once in a while."

"But daily? No. That's out. I certainly wouldn't do it," he said.
Although the most common effect of grapefruit is to intensify a drug's
side effects, such as headaches and dizziness, sometimes the result can
be life-threatening. Taken with some widely used blood pressure drugs
known as calcium channel blockers, the citrus can lower pressure below
safe levels and trigger tachycardia - a dangerously fast heartbeat.

One of the deadliest interactions occurred with Seldane, an allergy
drug. That medicine was taken off the U.S. market after a 29-year-old
man died just hours after taking Seldane with two glasses of grapefruit
juice. The drug hit toxic levels in his blood, fatally destabilizing
the rhythm of his heart.

Several years ago, as the mechanism of this effect was becoming better
understood, the Mayo Clinic warned: "Interaction between grapefruit
juice and certain drugs can be unpredictable and potentially dangerous.
... (This) is particularly worrisome for the elderly, who are more
likely to take medications."

Grapefruit's action on Viagra - an impotence drug that's so popular
with older men - is slightly different. Although it does boost the
drug's blood levels, this somehow tends to slow down the drug's
intended result - quite the opposite of what its users want.

Although "the grapefruit effect" has been known to scientists for more
than a decade, many people taking affected drugs today remain unaware
of it.

"Too many people just don't see it as a big deal, the way they do, say,
a peanut allergy, which they know can kill so quickly," said John
Belobraydic, pharmacy manager at a Walgreens drugstore on Campbell
Avenue.

When Duncan received his sister's kidney, in 1988, doctors didn't know
his daily glass of grapefruit juice would boost the level of his
rejection drug so high that it would damage that fragile kidney.

But they - and he - are well aware of it now. With a new donor
kidney functioning perfectly, Duncan has sworn off his beloved
grapefruit for good.

"You could say I've developed an aversion to it," he said. "But I do
miss it."
janers - 23 May 2006 23:03 GMT
Hi Janice

If the alcohol is what you can't stand there is rubs for skin at a pharmacy
that you can use. ASK them for it.

also if the injection is hurting. Try laying an ice cube on your skin first
and rub that area a little number, wipe with your prep pad or what ever they
tell you to use and go stick. maybe after doing that the nausea of having to
do that will go away.

Another trick??  Suck on a lemon drop or hard tack candy and get your mind
off it awhile before the shot, then during the shot suck on more. ehheh.
KEEPS you thinking of something else and stimulates the tum tum to think of
GOOD STUFF ...

good luck
try the ice it helps.
janers
janice - 23 May 2006 23:55 GMT
I asked my pharmacy and they did not suggest anything other than dettoll
which I think would be worse than the alcohol. I am going to try the ice
trick next week and having a mint in my mouth, and it will be strong so it
overpowers the alcohol. My only worry is that this will make me associate
with the methotrexate and I  may not be able to do a mint but I will try.
Maybe a very lemony candy..
Janice in BC
> Hi Janice
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> try the ice it helps.
> janers
Gretchen - 24 May 2006 10:08 GMT
Janice, in the US there are so many anitbacterial wipes, soaps, etc...
I wonder if you could use one of those intstead.  Most come in pretty
scents, but many still have an alcohol base.  When I was working as a
nurse I remember being told in IV classes that it's the friction of the
alcohol pad that does most of the work in killing germs.

I used to have to give myself shots for pre-term labor every 4 hours
and I remember feeling dread and nausea before each one, despite years
of experience with needles.

Good luck with this.  I feel for you, especially since I may be looking
at methotrexate in the future. Cellcept and Imuran have caused problems
for me.

Gretchen
SuperLupus@gmail.com - 24 May 2006 19:50 GMT
I have found that having a ritual for the day I take methotrexate helps
quell the side effects (whether mental or not). The day of, I drink
only water as hydration helps with the nausia. If possible try the
injections before bedtime. You may be able to sleep off some of the
creepy crawlies rather than having all day to think about the
injection.

Try setting up a small treat for yourself, unwrap a chocolate or
whatever floats your boat. Sometimes immersing yourself in something
you find pleasurable can take the sting out of something that is
usually a bother. Along the same lines I like to moisturize with my
favorite lotion so that I smell lavender rather than those tiny squares
of alcohol soaked pads.

Keep in mind you are doing for yourself what most people couldn't.
Could you picture your husband or brother being okay with injections?!?
I'd say overcoming the negative dealings with meds and choosing to
plough through them is very much the definition of bravery and quite an
accomplishment.

Tara
 
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