Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Lupus / May 2009
B-12
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Mermaid - 31 Oct 2005 19:43 GMT Hi all, I just returned from my Rheumy and he said he wanted me to take B-12, 1000 mg a day. Have any of you had to take this, for what reason and how long did it take to notice a difference. After telling him how tired I have been lately, he said my B-12 was normal but a very low normal. I have lately been trying to back off on so much meat but I still eat fish and shellfish.
Any ideas? Many Hugs to all, Paulette Ethyl Mermaid and Ginger (my new Kitty)
Andy - 31 Oct 2005 20:38 GMT >Hi all, >I just returned from my Rheumy and he said he wanted me to take B-12, 1000 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Many Hugs to all, >Paulette Ethyl Mermaid and Ginger (my new Kitty) Hugs - and a share of the fish - to Ginger.
 Signature Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!
Nancy F - 01 Nov 2005 11:10 GMT It is my understanding that either the B-12 shots or the melt-under-your-tongue forms are more utilized by the body than that swallowed. I have taken both tablets & shots (monthly) and I think my fatigue is less and I can recover quicker from a task, an exercion. I also credit DHEA with this, too.
 Signature N Farrell, SoCal
> Hi all, > I just returned from my Rheumy and he said he wanted me to take B-12, 1000 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Many Hugs to all, > Paulette Ethyl Mermaid and Ginger (my new Kitty) J - 01 Nov 2005 13:04 GMT > It is my understanding that either the B-12 shots or the > melt-under-your-tongue forms are more utilized by the body than that > swallowed. I have taken both tablets & shots (monthly) and I think my > fatigue is less and I can recover quicker from a task, an exercion. I also > credit DHEA with this, too. Hello Nancy, any news of the (lupus) study mentioned below? Some of them take years, to know the pros and cons. I'd have to go looking at the CAMM website, if yuo don't know. Hugs J http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/dhea.html Dehydroepiandrosterone, or DHEA, is a steroid hormone, a chemical cousin of testosterone and estrogen. It is made from cholesterol by the adrenal glands, which sit atop each kidney. For the first few years of life, the adrenals make very little DHEA. Around age six or seven, they begin churning it out. Production peaks in the mid-20s, when DHEA is the most abundant hormone in circulation. From one's early '30s on, there's a steady decline in DHEA production, so the average 75-year-old has only 20% of the DHEA in circulation that he or she had 50 years earlier. At all ages, men tend to have higher DHEA levels than women.
By definition, hormones are chemical messengers made in a gland or tissue that start, stop, or otherwise orchestrate activity in some other issue. That makes DHEA a hormone in name only, since no one knows exactly what it does in the body. For years it was thought to be a kind of chemical trash left over from making other hormones. Today, "we still haven't been able to identify any mechanism of action," says Dr. Casson.
In fact, about the only thing that researchers can agree on is that DHEA is easily converted into other hormones, especially estrogen and testosterone.
In fact, about the only thing that researchers can agree on is that DHEA is easily converted into other hormones, especially estrogen and testosterone.
The Food and Drug Administration isn't sure what to do with DHEA supplements. Ten years ago the agency told companies to stop selling DHEA, which was marketed at the time for weight loss, and classified it as an unapproved new drug, obtainable only by prescription. Then in 1994, DHEA was reclassified as a dietary supplement, allowing sales over the counter.
Another study in which volunteers took DHEA suggests that this hormone may help treat the autoimmune disease lupus. Trials looking at DHEA's ability to boost the immune system and maintain mental function in older adults are in progress.
Experiments on a few dozen people over six months hardly constitute proof that a treatment works. "What we really need at this point are some long-term clinical trials to identify clear benefits and risks," says Dr. Nestler.
One reason why such trials are crucial is that DHEA has side effects, some of which may be irreversible. Since DHEA is converted into testosterone, some women who take it grow body or facial hair and, if they are under age 50 or so, can stop menstruating. DHEA has also been shown to decrease levels of HDL ("good") cholesterol in women, and could increase the risk of heart disease, the leading killer of older women. "We have no idea what DHEA might do to the risk of breast cancer," says Dr. Nestler.
In men, the increased levels of testosterone seen with daily DHEA pills could stimulate the growth of a tiny prostate tumor that would otherwise have remained dormant. Excess testosterone could also cause the prostate to enlarge, making urination difficult.
J - 03 Nov 2005 10:56 GMT > > It is my understanding that either the B-12 shots or the > > melt-under-your-tongue forms are more utilized by the body than that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Some of them take years, to know the pros and cons. I'd have to go looking at > the CAMM website, if yuo don't know. To continue.... I looked at the NCCAM website and could only find one clinical trial for DHEA and HIV so that was useless. It's for clinical studies of complementary and alternative medicines http://nccam.nih.gov/ and I can't even find SLE or Lupus (L) under their lists. Research is so slow.............. J
Nicole H - 01 Nov 2005 11:30 GMT You need to use a sublingual form. My doctor recommends the following www.eliquidsolutions.com
B-Compolex vitamins are factors in providing energy by converting carbohydrates to glucose. The B Complex vitamins are water-soluable and used by the body daily and not stored.
The dose is equivalent to the normal injectable B12 dose. One dose gives 1000 mcg (micrograms NOT milligrams) which is 16,666% (yes, 16 thousand) of the RDA.
If you need more info, I can help Nicole
> Hi all, > I just returned from my Rheumy and he said he wanted me to take B-12, 1000 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Many Hugs to all, > Paulette Ethyl Mermaid and Ginger (my new Kitty) J - 01 Nov 2005 13:07 GMT > Hi all, > I just returned from my Rheumy and he said he wanted me to take B-12, 1000 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Many Hugs to all, > Paulette Ethyl Mermaid and Ginger (my new Kitty) Hello to Paulette and Ginger.
It's my understanding that if a person is really low, they get an immediate boost of feeling better, which continues through the injection times. I was just a bit below normal (as I've since found out) and found no real difference in energy. But with you cutting back on red meat, maybe it's a good idea. Many hugs J
ChelleSmiles - 01 Nov 2005 17:42 GMT My Rheumatologist just prescribed a combination Vitamin called Folplex. I just started taking it yesterday, but I will definitely share any results I can with you about it. The vitamin is a combo of Folic Acid, Vitamin B6 and Vitamin B12. Of course, I have had only 1 day to take the vitamin, so no chance to see if it helps yet, but I will keep you posted.
George Parton - 01 Nov 2005 17:55 GMT Dear Paulette, About 10 years ago, I went to a GP osteopath who provided me with injectable B-12. My wife administered the shots at home. It worked wonders while it lasted. Just prior to the next dose I always bottomed out. Of course it didn't cure anything but it sure felt good while it lasted! I hope you get great results..... George
> Hi all, > I just returned from my Rheumy and he said he wanted me to take B-12, 1000 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Many Hugs to all, > Paulette Ethyl Mermaid and Ginger (my new Kitty) Mermaid - 01 Nov 2005 18:31 GMT Thanks everyone for the response. I did some searching on the net and found out that B-12 can be used to treat pain also. Hope it helps me. I am taking a time-released tablet. Could not find the liquid.
Another thing I found out. Metformin, the meds my husband takes can cause a B12 defiencency and also they used B12 to treat muscle cramping and restless leg. My husband complains all of the time with being tired and he has muscle cramps in his legs all of the time. Wondering if that could be some of his problem. He has been taking Metformin for a long time in addition to other drugs for his diabetes. The things doctors don't tell you about. Another reason for us to find a new GP.
Thanks, Paulette
J - 02 Nov 2005 02:32 GMT > Thanks everyone for the response. I did some searching on the net and found > out that B-12 can be used to treat pain also. Hope it helps me. I am taking [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Thanks, > Paulette Hi Paulette (and others). vitamin B12 levels are simple to test for - it's just bloodwork = why change GP's ? just ask for the test. (some of this info may not be taught in medical schools because some of the teachers probably are doctors who practised when some of these newer medicines weren't around) so give your GP a break :-)
And you're right, metformin in on the list of meds implicated http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2001/07_01/dharmarajan.htm and leg pains are mentioned. migth be worth him getting it checked out.
I have had the B12 injections but my restless legs thing didn't improve, although there can be different causes of such.
That's an article about B12 deficinecy and you'll note that some conditions are more prone to it and some people, no matter how much meat they eat, have absorpiton problems, and require the sublinqual or injections form because no matter how much they swallow it just does not get absorbed. So it's worth your husband getting checked and if he doesn't have it, there's mild meds for restless legs, but I don't know if RLS includes cramps..
I'll have to see if I can find a list of causes of leg cramps. I sometimes get them but rarely. J
Nicole H - 02 Nov 2005 05:52 GMT for what it's worth, the blood test can show normal but you still need the b12
>> Thanks everyone for the response. I did some searching on the net and >> found [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > them but rarely. > J J - 03 Nov 2005 10:07 GMT > for what it's worth, the blood test can show normal but you still need the > b12 further explanation, please or a link to a trust-worthy website. The nerves in my arms are being affected. The only way I could convince dr to restart B12 injections is if I have proof of what you say. Hugs J
Nicole H - 04 Nov 2005 07:06 GMT There's no harm in taking B12 shots as its water soluable. Sounds like you need a neurologist especially if your current dr is listening to you. There are several ways to determine if there's a deficiency a.. Vitamin B12 and Folic Acid tests: Two of the most common causes of enlarged red blood cells - that result in Macrocytic anemia, are low blood levels of vitamin B12 and folic acid. b.. A Schilling test: This urine test is done to help determine whether the body is absorbing B12 and the actual cause of why it may not be. c.. Homocysteine: Homocysteine is an amino acid normally found in minute amounts in the blood. A high blood level of homocysteine is a sign of B12 deficiency anemia. d.. Complete Blood Count (CBC): This blood test can easily spot problems with low levels of B12 by examining red blood cell count for anemia. It checks the red blood cells for shape, size, and quantity. e.. Methylmalonic acid (MMA) blood test: Methylmalonic acid is a substance in blood that increases when vitamin B12 levels decrease.
Why not use a sublingual form? The one I use is equivalent to the shot.
new guidelines from the American Dietetic Association and NIH, recommend all people over 50 to take a B12 supplement. The biochemistry of B12 is for cardiac prevention, as well, as mood/neurotransmitter synthesis. Not just for neuropathy.
>> for what it's worth, the blood test can show normal but you still need >> the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Hugs > J J - 05 Nov 2005 09:05 GMT > There's no harm in taking B12 shots as its water soluable. Sounds like you > need a neurologist especially if your current dr is listening to you. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > The biochemistry of B12 is for cardiac prevention, as well, as > mood/neurotransmitter synthesis. Not just for neuropathy. thanks for the information, nicole, hugs j
Nicole H - 05 Nov 2005 18:02 GMT Good luck! I have a list of supplements my pain doctor recommends. All are naturally occurring in our diets but not at the needed level.
And for me, Provigil is the necessary energy drug. Nicole
>> There's no harm in taking B12 shots as its water soluable. Sounds like >> you [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > hugs > j Nicole H - 02 Nov 2005 05:56 GMT here's what I use... sorry about "under contruction" website... http://www.lifesvigor.com/shopexd.asp?id=10820
> Thanks everyone for the response. I did some searching on the net and > found [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Thanks, > Paulette ChelleSmiles - 02 Nov 2005 14:26 GMT That's very interesting. I take metformin for Insulin Resistance and PCOS, and I didn't know that it could deplete your body of B12. That is very interesting. Hopefully this Folplex vitamin the doctor gave me can help make a difference. I have been taking it for 2 days now and I don't feel any better, but I'm going to keep at it.
J - 03 Nov 2005 10:50 GMT > Another thing I found out. Metformin, the meds my husband takes can cause a > B12 defiencency and also they used B12 to treat muscle cramping and restless [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > drugs for his diabetes. The things doctors don't tell you about. > Another reason for us to find a new GP. Hello Paulette, Maybe a fresh doctor (well, not a fresh doctor <smile< but a fresh look by a new doctor) is a good idea... (apologies for my other post). there can be so many reasons for being tired all the time.
I think this applies to adults as well. http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/pa/pa_limbpain_hhg.htm There are two main causes of muscle pain. Brief muscle pain is usually due to a cramp. Foot or calf muscles are especially prone to cramps that can awaken a child from sleep. Cramps become more frequent in children who do not get enough calcium. Continuous pains are usually due to strenuous activity (muscle overuse) or forgotten muscle injuries during the preceding day
Here's some tips http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Muscle_cramp?Open Document
I don't know if I would use cold packs, but might help some. It also says "See your doctor if you experience regular muscle cramping or if cramps last longer than a few minutes - you may have an undiagnosed medical condition that requires treatment."
So if nothing there helps your husband, maybe he should discuss with doctor? Hugs J
djsirtin - 24 May 2009 22:09 GMT >Thanks everyone for the response. I did some searching on the net and found >out that B-12 can be used to treat pain also. Hope it helps me. I am taking [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Thanks, >Paulette mermaid i have b-12 defiencency i do the shots, and it helps the leg cramps and the arm cramps, do the shots it will help, funny how our bodys turn on us after using and abusing them for years and years. get the shots they really help alot!
J - 02 Nov 2005 02:14 GMT > Dear Paulette, > About 10 years ago, I went to a GP osteopath who provided me with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I hope you get great results..... > George Hi George, Why aren't you on them anymore?
I seemed to feel that same way you did at the beginning but in retrospect and looking at the numbers on the labtests, realize that once I was over the normal range, I wasn't getting that "umph" feeling anymore. So I stopped the injections and will get retested annually. If I see the numbers lowering, I'll ask to restart a regimen of about 10 injections, one every week until "topped up" again. J
George Parton - 03 Nov 2005 20:53 GMT Hi J, I am no longer taking the B-12 injections because I am now treated by a Rheumy specialist and she hasn't prescribed it. However, because of this dialogue I plan to ask for some at my next visit. Thanks for waking me up! George
>>Dear Paulette, >>About 10 years ago, I went to a GP osteopath who provided me with [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > until "topped up" again. > J Debi - 03 Nov 2005 09:38 GMT I've been having B12 shots for a few months now, it's not a miracle cure for energy boosting but i do feel a little better since starting, DEB.
> Hi all, > I just returned from my Rheumy and he said he wanted me to take B-12, 1000 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Many Hugs to all, > Paulette Ethyl Mermaid and Ginger (my new Kitty)
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