Of course, it's so much more complex than that.  There are (for the purposes
of this discussion) five major types of WBCs (Leukocytes).  Within one of
those types (Lymphocytes) their are 5 more types of cells.  There are two
types of "Polys" -  making a total of 10 different cell types.  I'm not
going into the Red blood cells and their ilk for this discussion.

White Blood Cells:
  Leukocytes
       Basophils
       Eosinophils
       Polymorphonuclear cells
           Granulocytes
           Neutrophils
       Monocytes
       Lymphocytes
           T Cells
               CD4 T Cells
               CD8 T Cells
           Natural Killer Cells
           B Cells.

Most of these play some role in autoimmune disease.  Basophils and
Eosinophils not so much (they're more involved with allergic responses.)
The most important cells in this game are the Lymphocytes and Granulocytes.
B Cells secrete antibodies which are the immune components that tell the
rest of the immune system (the T Cells) what should be destroyed or
otherwise altered.  In lupus, the B cells are pumping out *auto-antibodies*
which are antibodies directed at your own tissues. Neutrophils are important
to fighting certain kinds of infectious microbes.

The immune components that take part in the immune response are (in part):

Albumin
Glubulin
   Alpha Globulins
   Beta Globulins
   Gamma Globulins (IgA, IgE, IgG, IgM, IgD)
Cytokines

I don't tell all you this with the expectation that you'll remember it all
but that you see how complex it is... and I'm only giving you an overview.

Yes, you get sick because parts of your immune system are suppressed -
because other parts of the immune system are damaging or altering those
suppressed parts.  But not because the entire system is gone (though at some
point, this does happen in severe cases.)

In general:  Your B Cells are overactive.  They produce too many Igs and
autoantibodies.

Your T Cells - CD4s are "helpers" - they increase immune responses. Natural
Killer cells (NK) do what the name implies, they kill other cells (usually
for the purpose of destroying an infected or damaged cell when the immune
system is working *properly*).  Other T-Cells suppress immune responses (in
a healthy body, one purpose of this is to prevent injury such as a cut or
break from becoming so inflammed that it causes excess tissue
damage/scarring).  Still other T Cells signal other immune cells to perform
some other function such as secreting cytokines and antibodies!  In the
lupus patient is that the helper cells help too much, the suppressors don't
work enough, and you get more autoantibodies for the killer cells to
recognize and attack.

Basically - your immune system is "confused."  It is confused about what to
defend itself from and what to protect.  It attacks your own body (cells,
connective tissues like collagen and elastin, joints) but isn't as
responsive to invading organisms.

From Dr. Wallace's The Lupus Book.
"First, the microbial killing function of neutrophils, a type of white blood
cell, is altered, and second, certain complement* components critical in the
killing process are inhibited."

and

"there is evidence to indicate that many lupus patients have circulating
blood factors which inhibit a component of complement from being attracted
to an inflamed** cell."

and

"cytokine*** dysfunction in SLE decreases the body's ability to killl
foreign organisms"

I'll end it there because there is still more about what goes wrong where
and it involves the spleen and more detail about the immune complexes.  Dr.
Wallace does a much more concise and accurate job of explaining this in his
book "The Lupus Book" with good diagrams of how the cells interact and what
this means in terms of your immune system health.  If you don't have this
book, I highly recommend it.  It's written in very clear terms and as I
said, will explain the mess I gave you above much better than I did. :)
Plus, it just has a lot of important info on symptoms and treatments that
are, IMO, very important to the patient being able to be their best
advocate.

*complement - this is a critical chemical made by the immune system and part
of a number of immune responses

** for clarity, I'd substitute "inflamed" with "damaged or infected" because
we're talking about the ability to fend off infection for now.

***cytokines - these are chemicals that signal cells to do whatever it is
they do and there are many, many different cytokines.

I know this is very confusing and complex and that's really the point of it
all.

What it comes down to is that we don't know how a lot of these alternative
medicines work when they say they "boost" or "modulate" the immune system.
Some may actually be beneficial.  But some are pretty much considered not
worth the risk (echinacea being at the top of the list, I'm afraid.)  That
said, I have heard from people that take echinacea without problems.  But
the issue becomes - if it isn't helping you, and it may even be ramping up
the wrong parts of your immune system - then maybe you should reconsider if
you should be on it.  If your doctor is aware that you are taking it, I
would get his or her advice on whether or not it should be discontinued and
if so, should it be tapered.  I know nothing about this drug other than the
claim of it boosting the immune system.  So I don't know if sudden
discontinuation would be dangerous in any way.

now... if you waded through all that... you're a very brave person. :-)

best wishes and hope this isn't too overwhelming,
kCat

Hi Jacquie,
What I try to do is eat well. No junk food and plenty of fresh vegetables
and fruits. And lately I have backed off on so much meat. I still eat fish.
Eating right, really is good for you. I have been sleeping better too since
I changed my diet. That helps you fight everything that comes through the
window by getting better rest.
How long has it been since you were diagnosed?

Nice to meet you,
Paulette

I don't see any reason you can't take vitamins.  Just make sure your doctor
knows because some drugs are bound by certain minerals and won't be absorbed
properly (if, for example, you had to go on an antibiotic for any reason.)

what I do... well, I haven't had but one cold in about 7 years.  Mostly
because I'm pretty much home all the time and have limited contact with
others.  For some reason when hubby gets a cold, I don't usually catch it.
And don't think we don't have plenty of contact such that I could. ;-)
(sorry, too much information <g>)

I think so much of it is resting whenever you can.  I can't say I eat right
(where's my oreos?) but I'm sure if I did that would be helpful.  Wash hands
thoroughly after contact with others - like if you go shopping or a couple
of times a day when at work.  Most of the bugs we catch are from
hand-to-mouth transfer.

Know your triggers.  If you tend to flare after sunlight exposure, find ways
to reduce that with long-sleeved cover-ups, hats, sunblocks.  If you trigger
from exposure to cleaners or other chemicals, do what you can to avoid
those.  We go to the 8:30 church service which is lower attendance because i
get overwhelmed by the perfumes and colognes at the 11:00 service.  little
things like this can reduce your reactions.

how is your hemoglobin?  your blood cell counts can be low or low-ish
without having a major impact on your fatigue.  But if you're a bit anemic,
this can add to fatigue.

Fatigue is probably the one universal - or almost so - lupus sypmtom.  And
it's cause is really not well-understood.  So the only way to fight it is to
fight the disease itself and do those little things for yourself that
everyone should do really.  Eat right, exercise, rest when the body demands
it (if you can.)  I have found that when I'm fatigued one thing that can
*sometimes* perk me up is some stretching exercises.  I've learned a few
yoga poses and some pilates exercises.  Yoga especially seems to give me a
boost when I didn't think I had an ounce of energy left.  But often I just
flat out have to sleep.  At work I was bad - I would go into the ladies room
and sit in the stall and allow myself to nod off.  not very sanitary but had
I done so in my office I'd have gotten fired. :P

What risks do you fear with Plaquenil.  Of all the disease-modifying drugs
available for us, it is has the least risk.  It has been a godsend for me.
But everyone is different and not everyone can take it.  I've been on it
for.. uh.. I think 5 years (I've lost track) and really some days I can
almost forget I'm sick.  compared to where I was 5 years ago... it's hard to
fathom just how bad it was then.  Sometimes I get grumbly because I get
tired or I have a headache or my knee aches.  Then I think back to the days
prior to being treated by a rheumatologist and realize what pure H*ll I was
in then.

anyway - not trying to force Plaquenil on you but don't rule it out just
yet.  Also, there are alternatives to it that have lower risks as far as the
vision problem. Chloroquin is one (I think, don't quote me on that.)

And one of the other disease-modifying drugs may be in order if you can't
get the problems under control.  If you're not seeing a rheumatologist but
"just" an internist - I think you should look into finding a rheumy with
experience in lupus treatment.

Are you in the US?  If so, the LFA chapter nearest you can often provide a
list of doctors in the area who treat lupus.  They can't recommend one or
the other (for legal reasons.)  They can also refer you to support groups
where you can compare notes with other patients and perhaps find a doctor
that fits your needs and personality.  Some doctors will have more
traditional approaches like mine, others will be more open to
"complementary" medicine if that is what you are looking for.  My urologist
does complementary medicine and I really appreciate her openness to
treatments beyond the classic "ream it out and see if that fixes it"
approach to the urinary tract of females!  :)

blah blah babble babble.  Can you tell I've had some caffeine today? :)

take care and good luck!
kcat

You're sick because of the lupus.  Don't worry about your white blood cell
count.  Lupus will make you sick, feel like crap, etc.  It's not your WBC
count that is making you ill.
You need to educate yourself on the disease and how it works.  Find a
rheumatologist and start treatment.
Was researching > into taking Plaquenil but there's too much risk. I would
almost feel > like I was doing something wrong to try to weaken my immune
system "
There is very little risk of side effect when taking Plaquenil.  It's one of
the most mild drugs used for lupus.  You are screwing up your immune system
already by taking echinacea and whatever other immune boosters.  The
plaquenil helps to put your immune system back where it belongs.  Think of
it like a cast for a broken bone.  You wouldn't allow the bone to stay
broken, you'd seek help and get it treated.... the cast helps to keep the
bone in place so it heals.
There are studies showing that if you start Plaquenil early and continue it
for many years, you can actually help to ward off more advance problems- cns
involvement, lupus nephritis, etc.  So instead of taking a mild drug that
could potentially stave off these problems, you may end up on serious
biologics or chemo meds to stop the damage.  Lupus can affect every organ of
your body and if affected, without treatment, most likely the patient dies.
"How can you avoid getting sick if you can't take vitamins?"  There once was
a time where vitamins didn't exist.  Eat a balanced, healthy diet and you'll
get all the vitamins you need.
There is nothing you can do to stop from "getting sick".  It's part of
having a chronic illness.

You obviously don't understand white blood cells much less lupus.  Forget
whatever you think you know and do some serious reading/studying so you can
really understand what's going on.

I second that motion Nicole!
Ignore this 'supplement' list without seeking medical advice first!!
hugs, Shelagh
"Nicole H"  wrote in message

Jacquie,

Here's a link to a story that sums up the way most of us feel.

http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/spoons.htm

I love it. Some days you just run out of spoons. Learning to manage the
spoons you have is so important.
Bev