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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Lupus / March 2005

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New here- should I be worried?

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Sen - 07 Mar 2005 12:13 GMT
Hi folks,

I am new to this group (never used googe groups before actually) but
am looking for information. From my experience some people in support
groups have more knowledge about their own condition then you can ever
learn from general information on the internet, so I thought I'd ask
your help.

Ok, here's my question. I wonder whether I really should be worried
about the question whether I could have lupus or not. Actually I am
not worried at all, but of course something in my mind is, or I
wouldn't post here at all. Why do I ask this question? My story in
short: (or at least I'll try to be short, I am well known for rambling
in my posts.. and in real life ;))

When I first saw a rheumatologist about a year and a half ago, my
story was that I had had general joint pains for years. The problem
with my knees had been put down to patellar chondropathy, and I always
thought that the other pains would come from the same thing. Wrong
thought, for this is not possible ;) but how should a teenager know
this? Well the rheumy did some tests of course and a physical exam,
then a few weeks later called me for the verdict. He told me my ANA
was tested as positive, and that this could point to SLE, even more so
because I had answered positive to his question if I were
photosensitive. But because another test had been negative, he said he
didn't think much of it and diagnosed me as having fibromyalgia. The
fact that I did not even fulfill the criteria for this condition (I
did not have the so called tender points) and that I had many problems
with my joints (namely subluxations) that could not be explained from
this diagnosis, did not seem important to him. Other doctors have said
since then that I did not have fibromyalgia, and since I already
doubted this diagnosis very much I do not think of myself as having
it, though oficially it is still in my files. I did not think much of
the positive ANA either, as I thought the rheumy would have taken
action if it were a strong clue. He just said that if I wanted to have
it ruled out, I should discuss it with my GP. I never did this, as my
GP was not the one who refered my to the rheumy. Case closed, I
thought.

Some time later, I discovered I had hypermobility syndrome, (HMS) a
heritairy disorder of connective tissue in which the ligaments are too
lax and thus can cause the joints to be painful and instable. This
explained my symptoms of pains, fatigue and joint subluxations. I had
been told I was hypermobile ("double jointed") before, but never knew
about HMS. I wondered about the blood test again when I found out that
SLE can also cause joint laxity, but thought that I would be very sick
indeed if that was the case for me. So my diagnosis was HMS, and I
think (still do) that that is correct.

Now I have had a recurring rash for many years. It always appears on
my hands and elbows, and because it never bothered me and always went
away by itself I have never seen a doctor for that. Some weeks ago I
was at the docs with another question (HMS related) and because I was
having this rash again, I asked him if he knew what it was. First he
said it was some kind of eczema, but he thought it strange that my
skin was not dry, as is usually the case in eczema. I then told him I
had had short episodes of this rash for many years, that it always was
on my hands and elbows, and that the sun made it worse. He then said
he had no explanation for that, and off I wobbled. I thought my rash
had such specific features that I had thought he would maybe know what
it was, so I started to look on the internet myself. Maybe I am making
too much of this all (which is, in my eyes anyway, just a simple rash)
but the thing it is most similar to, is the discoid patches seen in
lupus. My patches are red, raised, and usually become light in the
middle, leaving a red border around a yellow-ish thingy. The fact that
they react to sunlight is also a big ponder.. when I look at the ACR
criteria for SLE, I see that together with my previous sun allergy,
(which still occasionally flares up slightly) I display three of them,
whilst many of the other things I have never been tested for. Now what
do you think of this? Am I over- worried? Taking little symptoms which
seperately would mean nothing and making things bigger then they
actually are? I do not think I have SLE. I have some symptoms
(arthralgia and fatigue) that are seen in SLE but which can also be
explained from the HMS. I am not often sick, never had any major
health problems other then the HMS which is quite disabling for me,
and though almost all of my joints are sore, they have never been
arthritic. But my ratio is trying to tell me to be sensible and at
least dicuss it with my doc. I hate however knowing more then he does
(as is already the case when it comes to HMS) and am terrified of
bringing things up, especially now as SLE can be a dangerous condition
and I don't want him to think I am worried about my health. (As some
of you may know, when you have searched for years for the correct
diagnosis you are told too often it is all in your head or that you
are a hypochondriac- so if I tell him I searched on the internet and
want to have checked some things out.. *sigh* well you probably know
what I mean.)

People here will probably tell me to go see my doc, and they will be
right. But I am hoping some will also be able to give me some
information and maybe even answer some of my questions. Well so much
for trying to be short! :P

Sen
Andy - 07 Mar 2005 15:34 GMT
>Hi folks,

Hi Sen

http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk/index.htm

and in particular

http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk/hughfaq.htm

will give you probably more information than you need!
Signature

Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group]
See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

Sen - 15 Mar 2005 09:53 GMT
Hi,

Haven't been here for a few days and am currently too busy with other
things to take more then a peek at the archives, which would probably
be very interesting. I guess you guys are basically saying that it
would maybe wise to have things checked out further, but that I have
no need to worry. Well that's ok :). Anyway, I just wanted to let you
know I will get back to you after I've seen the rheumy next month. I
intend to bring it up but guess I have too many questions already for
one appt! (HMS stuff.) I'll let you know how I get on. Thank you all
for the replies, info and support.

Take care,

Sen
BJ - 16 Mar 2005 16:05 GMT
Hi Sen,
I would be most interested in knowing what the rheumy has to say, so please
do let us know. Talk to us before then, if you have the time and energy.
Good luck to you with your appointment.
BJ-Sk. Canada
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Sen
J - 07 Mar 2005 17:06 GMT
> I am not often sick, never had any major
> health problems other then the HMS which is quite disabling for me,
> and though almost all of my joints are sore, they have never been
> arthritic. But my ratio is trying to tell me to be sensible and at
> least dicuss it with my doc.

Hi there and welcome, there was so much there that I snipped most of it.
Looks like the rheumatologist ruled out Lupus and fibromyalgia.

What ratio?
My ANA was mildly positive some years back. I have 2 autoimmune
problems..thyroid and Raynaud's.
A positive ANA is often seen with Lupus, but can also be seen with other
autoimmune diseases/disorders and/or the otherwise healthy population.

http://www.medicinenet.com/hypermobility_syndrome/article.htm
The joint hypermobility syndrome is a condition that features joints that
easily move beyond the normal range expected for a particular joint. The
joint hypermobility syndrome is considered a benign condition. It is
estimated that 10-15% of normal children have hypermobile joints, i.e.
joints that can move beyond the normal range of motion. There is a
tendency of the condition to run in families (familial). <quoted>

They mention Ehlers-Danlos syndrome there. Also I've seen on another
newsgroup, where a patient who had lung cancer, presented with painful
joints, so your GP is the person to sort all this out.

Individual joints can be hypermobile. I know because my knees are and
possibly now in my hands.
My knees point towards each other. (I forget the name of that) but the
doctor who examined my knees seemed to think that was a factor. Weight is
also a factor. The knees, ankles and hips are load-bearing joints.
Stomping up and down stairs can also be a factor. (knee) Twists during
falls (which I've had) can also be a factor. I fall a lot :-)
The pain can interfere with sleep and cause fatigue
Knee braces or wrapping AND combined with physiotherapy helps a lot.

DLE is mentioned here http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/ASLFAQ/symptoms.htm
Discoid lupus can appear similar to other skin lesions. For example,
rosacea, fungal infections, sarcoidosis, seborrhea, dermatomyositis, and a
sun-sensitive rash called polymorphous light eruption can be ruled out by
a simple skin biopsy and blood tests before diagnosing DLE. <quoted>

Where I come from, after a doctor consult, a letter is written up
summarizing what is or isn't found. That is sent to the GP and kept in the
specialists'  files, along with bloodwork results and scan results.
I think you should collect all those and see a skin specialist for
biopsies, then take all the information to your GP and let him/her help
you sort out what is or isn't and what might help or not help. The GP can
also keep an eye on your bloodwork (signs and symtoms), from time to time
and if anything is seen that might be worrisome, act on it.

Work with your GP and let us know how you're making out.

I'm not a doctor.
J
Sen - 08 Mar 2005 08:11 GMT
Hi folks,

Thank you all for your replies and the information. I had not seen
those particular websites mentioned but knew most of it (done some
reading after rheumy mentioned SLE as I wanted to know what it was ;).

> What ratio?
I meant my mind, at least the rational part of it :P

He did not rule out anything, in fact he diagnosed me with FMS, and
said he could not rule out SLE but did not think I had it. If I wanted
to have it ruled out I should discuss it with my GP. As my GP was not
the one who refered me to him, I never even talked the visit through
with my GP. (Learned from that now always to make an appt. to "report"
back to GP after a specialist visit.) And as I saw the rheumy for a
second opinion, I have never seen him again after that as well. So no
follow-up on symptoms or anything. But as the HMS explains many of my
symptoms we didn't look further after that.

> They mention Ehlers-Danlos syndrome there. Also I've seen on another
> newsgroup, where a patient who had lung cancer, presented with painful
> joints, so your GP is the person to sort all this out.
I don't see what you mean by that excactly, could it be that you are
saying that joint pain can sometimes also be a feature in
not-so-benign conditions?

The joint hypermobility syndrome is by some authorities considered to
be one and the same as Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, hypermobility type. In
any way they are related and difficult to distinguish, so that's why
they would mention it.

> Individual joints can be hypermobile. I know because my knees are and
> possibly now in my hands.
I know, not all of my joints are hypermobile as well, though almost
all of my joints are causing me pain and problems. Actually the
pauciarticular form (where hypermobility exsist in four or less
joints) is far more common then the polyarticular form. But now I have
to be careful not to start a lecture about HMS, lol.

> My knees point towards each other. (I forget the name of that) but the
> doctor who examined my knees seemed to think that was a factor.
Some call them "frogs eyes". Mine do as well. The hypermobility of my
feet and ankles, as well as a rotation and laxity from my hips is
causing it in my case. Physio can help, but overhere (I'm from the
Netherlands) HMS is not considered to be a chronic condition needing
chronic treatment by the peeps who decide what gets covered by health
care insurance and what not. As a result, I do not get more then
seven(!) physio sessions per indication. (Don't get me started!)

Well thank all you for the advise, I do keep all the specialist
letters. However my GP is the kind of doctor that would not soon act
upon things himself. Usually I am the one to tell what I want or need,
and he refers me or whatever. So if I would work with him I have to
start the whole story form the begin.. BUT he is usually open to what
patients say, and one thing I have learnt is to never, never be afraid
he thinks what I say is silly. On the other hand, nothing happens
unless I take control and tell him what I want. Not really how it
should be, but at least I now know his "user's manual" as to speak, so
I'd rather stay with him, and not change doctors, (if that is even
possible in my town) as you, Shelagh suggested. You are however very
right in saying that this probably is my mean problem now: the fact
that I am afraid to mention things when I go to my GP. I know he will
never link symptoms or things the rheumy said if I were to present
with other symptoms, so it IS the way forward if I want to have it
looked into. But don't be afraid I would be losing sleep on it at
night, in fact whatever worries me, it doesn't worry me at night.
Never has, actually. (And got new painkillers... wow haven't slept
like that in ages!) And as I said before, to be honest I am NOT
worried. But some part of me is wondering whether I should be (talking
about making things complicated for yourself). Let's call it
pre-worry, lol. Oh about the "dangerous"-thingy: I cannot read my
message from where I'm typing right now, but I thought I put something
like "potentially dangerous" or that it "could be dangerous" or the
like. Well anyhow, what I meant is that it is potentially dangerous,
but if I'm wrong there I stand corrected.

About seeing a skin doc: as my rash is just starting to disappear
again, I was wondering.. Of course I can make an appt. with my GP next
time it appears, but if he refers me to a dermatologist I will have to
wait a while until I can be seen there. Is it possible to have it
looked at whilst you are rash-free, or do they have to investigate the
rash? For how can I ever see a specialist at the "correct" moment?

I also want to say that I am glad you seem to agree with me that it is
too early, or too less to worry about. Think I will just wait until
I'm having my rash again, and then see my GP again. (It seems a very
little thing to go see the GP for though.. it never bothered me in any
way.) OR -maybe another good opportunity- I'm seeing another rheumy
next month, and they asked me to take any past letters from rheumys,
if present. At least I can tell then that it was never excluded and
that the rash sometimes makes me wonder about it. I will let you know
how I get on.
Andy - 08 Mar 2005 10:14 GMT
[]

>About seeing a skin doc: as my rash is just starting to disappear
>again, I was wondering.. Of course I can make an appt. with my GP next
>time it appears, but if he refers me to a dermatologist I will have to
>wait a while until I can be seen there. Is it possible to have it
>looked at whilst you are rash-free, or do they have to investigate the
>rash? For how can I ever see a specialist at the "correct" moment?

You could get a camera, and take pictures of the rash. Many people find
that the act of making a medical appointment to display a rash is the
best cure for it!
Signature

Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group]
See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

Sen - 08 Mar 2005 18:21 GMT
Thanks again for the replies and the information. You are all very
helpful :).

J: My other docs said I did not have FMS, that and I do not have the
tender points. So I don't think I have it. However, the new rheumy I
am going to see seems to know about HMS but his special interest is
FMS, so I will ask him to rejudge the dx and think of his word as
final.

About the old (former) rheumy: why is it odd I should discuss things
further with my GP? And to clear op things: yes we do need referals
over here to see a specialst, but it was my rehab doc that refered me
to the rheumy, and now my GP is refering me to the other rheumy. For a
skin doc I would also need a referal.

I haven't seen Andy mentioning Hughes syndrome but will look it up
(I'm not used to this form of groups so got a bit confused with the
messages there). Ah, should have added that before of course: I'm
female and am 20 years old (21 this months, wheehee :P).

Keeping a dairy of my signs: wow that's a hard one. I try to ignore
the symptoms as far as possible, because my HMS causes me to have
specific problems with almost any joint in my body, and as I already
can't function normally (can only walk short distances and look like a
drunken duck in doing so, have difficulties with sitting on most
chairs for any period of time, repetitive movements, etc.) the message
is just PACE, pace pace and go on with what you can. Listen to your
body but keep moving even though you are tired all the time and it
hurts to do so. I don't even want to keep record, I think. I saw
weight loss mentioned somewhere: well I'm sure I don't want to monitor
that as I'm already underweight and seem to lose a few pounds now and
then for no apperent reason and I don't always manage to regain my old
weight. So what I'm trying to say is that there are so many symptoms I
would lose track very soon if I wanted to keep record. It's just too
much. I could monitor the rash though as this is a quite easy and
straight forward symptom.

Hmm let's see what you other question were. Sleep: well it's better
now with the new meds, I do sleep now and the only thing I have not
been succesful in yet is to prevent myself from waking up early
because of the pain. Sometimes I do manage though and I think that
basically I am a good sleeper. I do have problems with turning in bed
though as my shoulders use to sublux when I try that. And there are
loads of other things, like ribs etc. and other pains, that often
cause me to wake up in worse pain then I'm used to but that is not a
big problem. I do have times I have trouble sleeping, but they always
pass by and now with the meds the nights are really good. Fatigue:
Yes, BIG TIME! But that's also very often part of HMS. I sleep like 12
hours a day if they let me (10 hours a night and 2 in the afternoon)
and my body really needs it. I have to keep myself from saying out
aloud all day that I am tired ;). So yes, fatigue is an issue. Nights
sweats: at times. Low grade temperature: hmm, no, don't think so.

Andy: thanks for the tip about the camera, I do believe what you're
saying, lol. I once took my cell phone to a phone store to ask advice
because I couldn't get it working. It had been like that for weeks,
but once I wanted to show the guy in the store what was wrong the
stupid thing started to work again! :P

Well oh I think it was J that asked me about what bloodwork the rheumy
did. Will have to look that one up. *Goes through her papers* Ah.
Don't know if I know all the correct english equivalents, so if I use
an abbrevation or word that doesn't sound familiar let me know! He did
ask for BSE, HB, ery's, leuko's, diff., trombo's, electrolytes,
calcium, CPK, alk. phos., protein, protein spectrum, TSH, FT4, ANA,
ENA, anti DS-DNA (the last being negative by the way. Thought
everyting else was normal as well, except for the ANA).

Think that was about it for now. Really have to tape my fingers up
now, lol.

Sen
J - 08 Mar 2005 19:27 GMT
> J: My other docs said I did not have FMS, that and I do not have the
> tender points. So I don't think I have it. However, the new rheumy I
> am going to see seems to know about HMS but his special interest is
> FMS, so I will ask him to rejudge the dx and think of his word as
> final.

I was just pointing out that sometimes they diagnose FMS while waiting to
see if the person eventually meets the criteria for Lupus. I did get the
message that FMS has been ruled out for you.
J
J - 08 Mar 2005 19:44 GMT
> Well oh I think it was J that asked me about what bloodwork the rheumy
> did. Will have to look that one up. *Goes through her papers* Ah.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> ENA, anti DS-DNA (the last being negative by the way. Thought
> everyting else was normal as well, except for the ANA).

and what was the titre of the ANA? 1:160  1:40  1:320 1:640 1:1280
1:2560
Maybe you don't have Lupus.
Let's see what the skin specialist says. Yes, a photo is good, but
actually being able to biopsy is probably better..

J
http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/ASLFAQ/diag.htm

Doctors will typically rely on lab tests for complete diagnosis.
Unfortunately, how each doctor interprets these tests is highly variable
and leads to some cases taking years to diagnose.

Basic lab tests should include a CBC with differential, blood
chemistries/analyses (SMAC), ESR and urinalysis. Abnormal CBC results may
include thrombocytopenia, leukopenia or lymphocytopenia, and/or anemia.
It's not uncommon for there to be long-standing, slightly-low WBC's and
RBC's. While a single such result might be dismissed as insignificant,
long-standing results like these can be significant. Thus, making a graph
of these lab results can be a very important tool to aid in diagnosis.
There may also be an elevated ESR or C-reactive protein which merely
indicates that an inflammatory process does exist. Finally, blood
chemistries and a urinalysis are important to check for major organ
involvement (such as kidney, liver and the thyroid gland). Signs of kidney
involvement would include an elevated BUN and creatinine, or the presence
of protein in the urine. Blood chemistries which evaluate liver function
include AST, ALT, bilirubin, alk. phos. and GGT. Thyroid studies include
the T3, T4, Free T4 and TSH.

A biopsy may be performed on a skin rash, mouth ulcer, or if there is a
major organ involvement (such as the kidney), on the affected organ.

The following are some of the standard tests which most rheumatologists
run when lupus is suspected. These include:

  1. The ANA (antinuclear antibodies) which are considered the
cornerstone of lupus diagnosis as they are present at some point in 95-98%
of patients with lupus.
  2. The anti-dsDNA found in 50% of patients with lupus. Anti-dsDNA is so
rarely present in patients without SLE that its presence is generally
considered diagnostic for SLE.
  3. Anti-Ro (SSA) which is commonly found in cases of ANA-negative lupus
and may indicate secondary Sjogren's Syndrome, and anti-La(SSB) which
occurs mainly with primary Sjögren's Syndrome.
  4. Anti-Sm which is seen in few lupus patients, but when present can
help confirm the diagnosis.
  5. The anti-RNP which may indicate mixed connective tissue disease
(MCTD) at high levels, or confirm a lupus diagnosis at low levels.
  6. Anticardiolipins and the lupus anticoagulant. Since 1/3 of SLE
patients test positive for one or all anticardiolipins (IgA, IgG, IgM) and
APS is so common among lupus patients, rheumatologists will often run
these tests.
  7. Rheumatoid Factor (RF) which is positive in 80% of those with RA,
but only 20-30% of those with lupus. A high RF titre may suggest an RA
diagnosis rather than SLE.
  8. Immune complexes or complements (C3, C4, CH50) which tend to be low
when lupus is very active, and can also be an important gauge of disease
severity.

Other important lab tests include CPK, PT and PTT. CPK tends to be
elevated when there is muscle inflammation as is common with lupus
myositis. Also, the PT and PTT tend to be prolonged in those who are
positive for the lupus anticoagulant.

When looking at the above test results, it's important to consider them in
context with other test results and symptoms. This means borderline and
low-positive results may have more significance than they otherwise would.
Also, it's important to track trends over a period of time and note
whether the results are abnormal but stable, or fluctuating widely.
Further, if there is fluctuation, keeping a symptom log may help pinpoint
what caused it.

I'm adding this...
http://www.itzarion.com/lupusana.html
The pattern of the ANA test can sometimes be helpful in determining which
autoimmune disease is present and which treatment program is appropriate.
The speckled pattern is found in SLE and other connective tissue diseases,
while the
peripheral or rim pattern is found almost exclusively in SLE. Because the
ANA is positive in so many conditions, the results of the ANA test have to
be interpreted in light of the patient's medical history, as well as his
or her clinical symptoms. Thus a positive ANA alone is NEVER enough to
diagnose lupus. On the other hand, a negative ANA argues against lupus,
but does not rule the disease out completely.

and http://dermnetnz.org/immune/cutaneous-lupus.html
Investigations

When tests are performed in a patient with cutaneous LE, there may be no
abnormalities, especially if the patient has discoid LE. Sometimes however
mild anaemia or a reduction in the number of circulating white cells is
detected, and there may be some abnormal antibodies to cell nuclei (called
antinuclear antibodies or ANA). SLE is associated with high titres (titres
reflect the strength of the reaction) of ANA as well as other
autoantibodies. Extractable nuclear antigen (ENA), also known as antiRo/La
antibodies, is nearly always present in patients with subacute LE.

The tests may need to be repeated every year or so. The severity of the
condition may be reflected in the titre of ANA and/or ENA.
Andy - 09 Mar 2005 10:59 GMT
[

>I haven't seen Andy mentioning Hughes syndrome but will look it up

http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk/faqshets/faqs18.htm

http://www.lupus-support.org.uk

And another site I can't locate :(
Signature

Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group]
See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

anon - 15 Mar 2005 12:47 GMT
> >I haven't seen Andy mentioning Hughes syndrome but will look it up
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> And another site I can't locate :(

http://www.hughes-syndrome.org/what2.htm
J - 08 Mar 2005 10:18 GMT
> Thank you all for your replies and the information. I had not seen
> those particular websites mentioned but knew most of it (done some
> reading after rheumy mentioned SLE as I wanted to know what it was ;).
>
> He did not rule out anything, in fact he diagnosed me with FMS,

Well, FMS can be a concurrent diagnosis or a diagnosis pending meeting the
criteria of the ACR.
In addition, some rheumys don't want to worry the patient unnecessarily.
Stress can cause exacerbations...certain UV light (lighting and/or sun) can too.

And it's possible that they may refer back if the symptoms are readily treatable
by the GP.
(ie don't need the "big guns" of medicines - yet)

Also, some prefer not getting diagnosed, due to :
extra health, life, disability, insurance costs for pre-existing conditions;
if a person wanted to emigrate to another country, they would be screened out
with a dx of SLE;
these days, many employers don't want someone with a potential chronic illness;

> and
> said he could not rule out SLE but did not think I had it. If I wanted
> to have it ruled out I should discuss it with my GP.

That's odd...given that you're in the Netherlands. (I thought you were in the
US).

What exact bloodwork did he do?
http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/ASLFAQ/diag.htm

and the pattern does not seem to be mentioned in the above

http://www.itzarion.com/lupusana.html
The pattern of the ANA test can sometimes be helpful in determining which
autoimmune disease is present and which treatment program is appropriate. The
speckled pattern is found in SLE and other connective tissue diseases, while the
peripheral or rim pattern is found almost exclusively in SLE. Because the ANA is
positive in so many conditions, the results of the ANA test have to be
interpreted in light of the patient's medical history, as well as his or her
clinical symptoms. Thus a positive ANA alone is NEVER enough to diagnose lupus.
On the other hand, a negative ANA argues against lupus, but does not rule the
disease out completely.

> As my GP was not
> the one who refered me to him, I never even talked the visit through
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> saying that joint pain can sometimes also be a feature in
> not-so-benign conditions?

Yes, rarely have I seen it mentioned, but I suppose older patients might not
think to mention joint pains and it's not what is thought to be the more common
symptoms..
http://www.shands.org/health/information/article/007194.htm
Actually a friend of mine was from Netherlands and got dx'd with FMS and she
wondered 6? years later, why she'd not gotten a chest x-ray. She did have lung
cancer.  That can start years before it shows up on scans. I imagine if you're
young and don't smoke, your doctor might "poo-poo" the idea of having a chest
xray, but one every 3 or 4 years, might not be a bad idea. The first forms a
baseline for comarison by the next one.

> <skipping HMS and physiotherapy, but you might be able to get advice about
> that from "bae" on sci.med and/or find some exercises to do (and not do) on
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> upon things himself. Usually I am the one to tell what I want or need,
> and he refers me or whatever.

I guess you'll have to instruct him. ;-)

I don't get it. You can go direct to a rheumy but have to be referred to a skin
specialist?
Anyway can you reproduce it (timing the rash for the appointment)?
http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/ASLFAQ/symptoms.htm
Discoid lupus can appear similar to other skin lesions. For example, rosacea,
fungal infections, sarcoidosis, seborrhea, dermatomyositis, and a sun-sensitive
rash called polymorphous light eruption can be ruled out by a simple skin biopsy
and blood tests before diagnosing DLE.

Only about 5% of patients with DLE eventually develop SLE. This may take months
or decades to happen. Conversely, about 20-25% of SLE patients have skin lesions
indistinguishable from DLE at some time during their illness, possibly as the
first symptom.<end quoted text>

Also see what Andy pointed you to. Hughes syndrome. Important, especially if
you're female and young; productive years ahead. What age are you?

Best stick around with us for a while, until we see what shakes out.
KCat doesn't seem to be around.
There are archives to this newsgroup.
If you're a teenager, you  may wish to search on that word to see what some
others with more wisdom than me say about Lupus in teens.
http://groups-beta.google.com/advanced_search?q=&
"herbwormwood" had it before her teens... Shelagh had problems in her teens
(etc)
(I used "teens" or "teenager")

Keep a diary of your signs (signs are what can be seen) and symptoms.
How do you sleep?  Okay? Sleep a lot?  Fatique?
Low grade temperature?
Night sweats?

Glad to read that the pain reliever is helping :-)
J
J - 07 Mar 2005 17:24 GMT
> When I first saw a rheumatologist about a year and a half ago, my
> story was that I had had general joint pains for years. The problem
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> this diagnosis, did not seem important to him. Other doctors have said
> since then that I did not have fibromyalgia

well my other reply seems to have gotten lost.
No, don't worry.
See a skin specialist about getting biopsies
Collect summary letters from all the doctors you've seen (and lab reports
and scan reports, if any) and take them to your GP and talk to him/her
about http://www.medicinenet.com/hypermobility_syndrome/article.htm

A positive ANA can happen and then disappear.
A good GP will continue to monitor. (labwork, signs and symptoms)
J - not a doctor.
Andy - 07 Mar 2005 18:55 GMT
In article <422C8E5F.92183390@execulink.com>, J <anon@anon.inv> wrote
[]

>well my other reply seems to have gotten lost.

Arrived here OK. Give it time :)
Signature

Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group]
See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

J - 07 Mar 2005 19:11 GMT
> In article <422C8E5F.92183390@execulink.com>, J <anon@anon.inv> wrote
> []
> >
> >well my other reply seems to have gotten lost.
>
> Arrived here OK. Give it time :)

You see 2 replies from me?
I can't even remember what I posted...
and I was so ticked that I'd lost it, I decided to not try to replicate
it.
Ho, hum, maybe it'll show up later, like you say.
J
Shelagh - 07 Mar 2005 19:33 GMT
>> Arrived here OK. Give it time :)

Both arrived here too J.
btw, I agree with your assessment of what  you wrote about Sen.
I too think that to get all riled up about lupus at this point is premature.

However Sen,  I too feel strongly about what you said re the
neurotic/hypochondriacal type of patient labels we can get early in the
process of acheiving a correct dx!
That is probably the worst feeling and from what I read I think that is your
biggest worry right now; not wanting to say you have read the internet info
and that you are  worried about other possible underlying problems can eat
away at you and make you lose sleep at night.
I think J is right in what she suggested re to gather together all the
previous doctor's summary letters and test results you have had done in past
years, file it all and take it into a doctor you feel comfortable with and
to someone you can trust with your feelings; you should be able to open up
completely with your gp and if that is not the case, IMO, you should change
doctors....
The exchange of info with a doctor should be possible from a patient; I know
my doctors are open to my input and they respond in kind and answer
questions about anything I may have read.
Wish you luck at any rate; and I do hope you don't have lupus but just a
note on that too: lupus is not a 'dangerous' condition as you mentioned, in
fact most people (90%) with lupus live a normal lifespan and the disease is
as individual as each patient who has it; no two people with lupus have the
same course or symptoms.
Hope this has helped you,
hugs from Shelagh
http://clik.to/lupus
Andy - 07 Mar 2005 21:59 GMT
In article <422CA779.9D207FA3@execulink.com>, J <anon@anon.inv> wrote

>> In article <422C8E5F.92183390@execulink.com>, J <anon@anon.inv> wrote
>> []
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>Ho, hum, maybe it'll show up later, like you say.
>J

The other one begins

       Hi there and welcome, there was so much there that I snipped
       most of it. Looks like the rheumatologist ruled out Lupus and
       fibromyalgia.

       What ratio?
       My ANA was mildly positive some years back. I have 2 autoimmune
       problems..thyroid and Raynaud's. A positive ANA is often seen
       with Lupus, but can also be seen with other autoimmune
       diseases/disorders and/or the otherwise healthy population.

and continues for another 6 paragraphs
Signature

Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group]
See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

J - 08 Mar 2005 10:25 GMT
> The other one begins
>
>  <snip>
>
> and continues for another 6 paragraphs

How odd and/or what a mess..something weird happened to my newsreader. I
must remember to save first, if it happens again.
now she's replying to things I wrote but I a) don't remember saying and b)
cannot see.
Thanks Andy.
J
Andy - 08 Mar 2005 12:00 GMT
In article <422D7D84.C4D9C989@execulink.com>, J <anon@anon.inv> wrote
[
>now she's replying to things I wrote but I a) don't remember saying and b)
>cannot see.

I have this trouble in conversation - as I don't have Lupus it must be
the approach of middle age**

>Thanks Andy.

Any time

>J

*** That should lure the Kat from her lair :)
Signature

Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group]
See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

J - 08 Mar 2005 19:56 GMT
> The other one begins
> <snip>
>
> and continues for another 6 paragraphs

I just remembered that I can find it in the Google archives.
Thanks for your replies. I'll leave your other (post) to the mewgirl. ;-)
J
 
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