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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Lupus / March 2007

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Cotz sunblock does not work as advertised

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Dandelion77 - 28 Sep 2004 03:33 GMT
For those of you with extreme sun sensitivity, don't waste your money on
Cotz sunblock, SPF 58; it just doesn't work. I wasted months of suffering
on this product because I thought it was protecting me. Also when I sweat,
Cotz disintegrates and my whole face turns white, and I look like the robot
guy on Star Trek, and then it drips off my chin - a scarey sight indeed.
Adding more Cotz sunblock while sweating is futile.

I have an extreme sun allergy, and have used Cotz since it first came out.
For the past year I have kept shelling money out for Cotz, and  I have
wondered why Cotz with an SPF 58 rating wasn't protecting me from an
allergic reaction to the sun. Duh! I finally figured out that I could see my
red chin through the Cotz coating on my face. A physical sun block should
block the sun from reaching my skin, and if I could see my red chin even
with Cotz on my face, Cotz wasn't protecting me. To find a product that
might actually protect me, I made a black magic marker stripe on my arm to
test different products. My logic was that if the product covered the black
stripe, the product would not let the sun reach my skin. Cotz did little to
cover the black stripe (looked like a black stripe with a thin thin white
coating), while other products like Dermablend cover creme, SPF 30,
completely covered the black stripe and made the black stripe disappear. I
am now using Dermablend cover creme, and my allergic reactions have
decreased considerably. With Dermablend, I can now go on a 2 to 3 hour jaunt
to the store without my chin burning and feeling like I have been stomped
on.

I tested various camaflouge cosmetics which are used for covering
birthmarks, surgery etc.  including Dermablend, Coverblend, and Maximum
Coverage by Estee Lauder. Of those I tested, Dermablend covered the black
stripe the best.

As for Dermablend cover creme, if it covers a black stripe, it will cover up
most skin imperfections. Dermablend cover creme with the setting powder does
accentuate wrinkles. (There also may be some makeup tricks I don't know
about, but it surely does accentuate my wrinkles which are already enhanced
by my allergic condition. Being that my alternative is getting sick or
wearing a mask, Dermablend is the lesser evil.) Lessons  I learned: I have
to use the setting powder otherwise the cover creme will rub off on
everything. The loose setting powder should be applied with a large makeup
brush!! Once the powder is on, Dermablend is very difficult to get off;
either use the Dermablend remover or a cold cream (cheaper). I have
sensitive skin, and the cover creme doesn't bother me, but the Dermablend
remover does bother me. Instead I am using Noxema cleanser for sensitive
skin, but it takes several applications to remove the Dermablend. I also am
using an Almay powder because it is cheaper.

And so I  continue my quest to resume a somewhat normal life while living
with a sun allergy.
Dandelion

PS A simple test for the effectiveness of the sun protection of clothing is
to hold it up to a light and look through the cloth. If you can see through
the cloth, it isn't protecting you from the sun. I discovered this after
working in the garden and noticing heat on my skin while wearing a light
weight man's dress shirt. Once I did the light test, it was like discovering
how ultra stupid I was. Now I wear long sleeved denim shirts which block
light much more effectively.
Lee Thompson-Herbert - 28 Sep 2004 10:54 GMT
>For those of you with extreme sun sensitivity, don't waste your money on
>Cotz sunblock, SPF 58; it just doesn't work. I wasted months of suffering
>on this product because I thought it was protecting me. Also when I sweat,
>Cotz disintegrates and my whole face turns white, and I look like the robot
>guy on Star Trek, and then it drips off my chin - a scarey sight indeed.
>Adding more Cotz sunblock while sweating is futile.

What you're complaining about is that Cotz isn't waterproof.  This
shouldn't be that much news.  I use the stuff as well and haven't had
problems.  It isn't quite as good as Total Block SPF 65, but it's fine.

>[Story about using Dermablend because it's opaque deleted]

Except that I also use Dermablend.  It really doesn't have that high
an SPF rating, and I haven't found it to work nearly as well as Total Block.
Or Cotz if you can get it to stay on.  It sounds like your real complaint
is that you've been using a product that isn't sweatproof.  You could
actually set the Cotz with white powder the same way you do the Dermablend.
That's a common stage makeup trick.  Of course, you'd be even whiter, but
hey.  Some of us haven't got any skin pigment left anyway... ;}

And before you say "But you're probably not that sensitive to UV":
I get skin lesions from fluoresent lighting, compact fluoresents thow a
more concentrated beam so those are often worse.  Not wearing sunblock
and a hat when I go to the hospital or my doctors' offices will result
in spectacular sunburns.  Found this out the hard way when I took my
husband to the ER in the middle of the night.
I get positively fried by unshielded halogen lighting.  The previous owners
of my current house put in high-efficiency halogen track lighting.  It took
me about 2 hours to realize why I felt like I was being burned to death
inside the house and replaced all the floods with incandecents.  We probably
doubled our electricity bill, but so it goes...

And if you're going to buy Solumbra fabric clothing, the company reps I
talked to have confirmed that their dark colors block more UV than the
light colors do.  I'm one of the people who talked them into offering more
dark colored items in their catalogue.  Especially since they tell people
with severe UV sensitivity to buy the dark colored stuff (hard to do when
they were offering almost nothing in the dark colors).  The difference
between 95% and 98% of UV blocked really _does_ make a difference for
some of us.

Signature

Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com         KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris
See my CafePress Shops: http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/CafePress.html
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"

J - 28 Sep 2004 13:52 GMT
> Except that I also use Dermablend.  It really doesn't have that high
> an SPF rating, and I haven't found it to work nearly as well as Total Block.
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> between 95% and 98% of UV blocked really _does_ make a difference for
> some of us.

Thanks for your post, Lee.
Very important.
The halogens save $$ (over a longer period and depending on local hydro rates).
In terms of environmental they're also better but obviously not for those with
Lupus
J
Dandelion77 - 04 Oct 2004 19:33 GMT
Lee,
Sounds like you know about sun sensitivity. I would just like to point out
that we should not believe everything we read. We should just do some common
sense tests to find out if a product is actually working. For me and
probably you, a product that actually works can mean a world of difference
in our lives. For me, it is the difference between staying home and wearing
a mask or going out and living a normal life. Cotz was not protecting me,
and every time I left the house I would suffer for it.

I am very sensitive to light. I too have replaced all of the flourescents
with incandascent light bulbs. Drapes shut, lights off, and I mostly wear a
cloth mask most of the time even indoors. In the few minutes that I put my
makeup on, I can watch my face turn red in reaction to the incandscent light
in the bathroom.

I am mad that I have wasted months on the Cotz product thinking it was
protecting me when in fact it was not protecting me. I wore Cotz to the
makeup store, driving 1/2 hour under an overcast sky. At the store, I wiped
off the Cotz, and my face was beet red underneath. The Cotz just was not
protecting me. I am not really all that keen on the Dermablend, but
Dermablend has significantly reduced the burning sensation I get from too
much light. Dermablend allows me to go to the store without feeling as bad.
If I can find a better product than Dermablend, I will use it. Also
according to FDA guidelines, the highest SPF companies are supposed to claim
is SPF 30, so we really don't know if the Dermablend is better or worse than
the Cotz. That is why I came up with my black stripe test. If the product
covers the black stripe; odds are is that it will protect me. Just try the
black stripe test and you will see what I mean about the Cotz lack of
protection. Also under SPF testing, they use like a teaspoon or something
like that. I have tried globbing a teaspoon of Cotz on my face - which does
not work at all under real world conditions. As for UVA, UVB, I don't know
what part of the light spectrum bothers me, so I just want to block out
everything.

I also bought some of the light tan Solumbra sunblock material. I just held
the tan Solumbra material up to the light and I can see the light plainly
through it which means it is not protecting me much at all. My blue denim
shirt under the light test shows a vague image of the light and therefore
protects me much better. The point being that the expensive Solumbra tan
material might beat out normal tan material, but fails miserably against a
normal blue denim material.

For others suffering this affliction, here is a tip for making a cloth mask.
I use dark colored T-shirt material for the mask. Now on my second year of
extreme sun allergy, I have refined my mask - modeling it after surgeons
type mask which hooks over the ears. Take a piece of cloth and pull it snug
over face. Mark and cut holes for ears so that the material will be snug on
face. Now put cloth back on face using ear holes. Pin/mark the cloth to
follow the contour of nose and chin. Sew/cut countoured mask. Put  back on
face and mark  eye outline  and hole for mouse/nose, then cut cloth. Finally
trim bottom and sides of mask for desired sun protection. The mask is ugly,
but comfortable and protects. Very easy to unhook from the ear and remove.

Dandelion
PS I am still trying to figure out what is wrong with me. The allergist just
finished his tests and told me to come back in April.  My face is still
swollen and continues reacting with no real hope in sight. Sigh!
Lee Thompson-Herbert - 04 Oct 2004 22:36 GMT
>I am mad that I have wasted months on the Cotz product thinking it was
>protecting me when in fact it was not protecting me. I wore Cotz to the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>much light. Dermablend allows me to go to the store without feeling as bad.
>If I can find a better product than Dermablend, I will use it.

You might try Total Block, which has chemical sunscreens in it as well as
the physical sunblocks.  COTZ is really meant for people who cannot tolerate
the stronger sunscreens.  It may be that you're not using the appropriate
product for your problem.  See my next paragraph...

>Also
>according to FDA guidelines, the highest SPF companies are supposed to claim
>is SPF 30, so we really don't know if the Dermablend is better or worse than
>the Cotz.

This is outdated information.  By some years.  It was true when the only
sunscreen material available was PABA, but it's no longer true.  There are
a great many more sunscreens out there now, many of which block both UVA and
UVB.  Physical blocks also exist, which are _all_ that's in COTZ.  That may
be the other reason you're not having as much luck with it.  Dermablend has
chemical sunscreens in it along with the titanium dioxide block.  If your
sensitivity is to UVA, you need a sunscreen that blocks that band.  Avobenzone,
salicylates, oxybenzone, sulisobenzone, and cinnimates are all good broad-band
sunscreens.  Avobenzone in particular is used for UVA blocking.  This is when
it pays to read the labels carefully and know what each ingredient does.

>That is why I came up with my black stripe test. If the product
>covers the black stripe; odds are is that it will protect me. Just try the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>what part of the light spectrum bothers me, so I just want to block out
>everything.

The trick to applying a lot of sunblock is to do it in layers.  The stuff
will dry if you do it carefully.  Maybe I have better luck because I've
done theatrical makeup for so long.  You're right that sunblocks with a
lot of titanium or zinc oxide in them will make your face look pearly white,
but that's a simple consequence of having a mineral pigment as the sunblock.
Since I'm nearly that white to start with, it's never bothered me.  And again,
applying setting powder afterwards just like you would with the Dermablend
will improve the staying power of any makeup or sunblock.

UVB in general causes sunburn.  UVA penetrates deeper and is more likely
to cause photosensitivity reactions and affect connective tissues.  It
sounds like you have a combination of using the wrong product for your
problem and not using nearly enough, as well needing a waterproof product
to at least partially protect from streaking and running.  

Each of us is going to have different results.  I positively fry if I
use something that doesn't have a high percentage of titanium dioxide in
it, and SPF30 is the absolute lowest rating I can use.  The Dermablend
would be useless unless I used it as a tattoo concealer (which is essentially
what you're doing).  I use it to cover scars, and by itself, it's not nearly
enough.  When applied over COTZ or Total Block or a similar sunblock, it's
fine.  I tend to use COTZ when my skin is too inflamed to tolerate the
stronger chemical sunblocks in Total Block (or even the stuff in Banana Boat
SPF 50).  Otherwise, I'd rather get the higher coverage.

>I also bought some of the light tan Solumbra sunblock material. I just held
>the tan Solumbra material up to the light and I can see the light plainly
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>material might beat out normal tan material, but fails miserably against a
>normal blue denim material.

Thickness and weave of the material does make a difference, yes.  The
advantage of Solumbra and Solarweave is that you won't get heatstroke
while wearing them.  For some of us, that's a pretty pressing matter.
The dark colored Solumbra fabrics block considerably more UV than the
light colored ones do, which was confirmed by the company reps.  They
now recommend that anyone with severe UV sensitivity buy their darker
colors.

[...]
>PS I am still trying to figure out what is wrong with me. The allergist just
>finished his tests and told me to come back in April.  My face is still
>swollen and continues reacting with no real hope in sight. Sigh!

Have you been tested for autoimmune diseases yet?  I've found that the
dermatologist was actually pretty useless, even though I had classic
discoid lupus lesions.  It wasn't until I saw a rheumatolgist that I
got treatment that did anything significant.

I've had UV sensitivity since before sunscreens were available.  And found
out the hard way that PABA-based ones could make autoimmune problems worse.
I've learned to read the labels very, very carefully over the years and to
read the reasearch.  I've seen the FDA change their opinion multiple times
on what was considered the "practial limit" for sunscreens.  At one point,
15 _was_ the highest rating out there, now it's considered the minimum safe
rating you should use.  So take any pronouncements on what the "real" highest
rating is with a grain of salt.  Especially since a lot of the info out on
the net doesn't get updated regularly.

Signature

Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        lee@retro.com         KoX 1995, SP4
Head Muso, White Rats Morris
See my CafePress Shops: http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/CafePress.html
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"

Andy - 28 Sep 2004 11:00 GMT
>For those of you with extreme sun sensitivity, don't waste your money on
>Cotz sunblock, SPF 58; it just doesn't work.

[snip detail]

Is it possible that while it has high SPF - which as I understand it
blocks UVB - it has no UVA protection which you also require?
Signature

Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group]
See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

Dandelion77 - 04 Oct 2004 20:54 GMT
> Is it possible that while it has high SPF - which as I understand it
> blocks UVB - it has no UVA protection which you also require?
> --
> Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group]

I have used Cotz since it first came out. I had done a lot of research on
different sunblocks, and Cotz was the best non-chemical sun block I could
find (according to advertising and SPF rating). Chemical sunblocks bother
me. Cotz is a physical sunblock and is supposed to protect for the entire
light spectrum. I don't know what spectrum of light that bothers me, so I
just want to protect against all of them. But Cotz, SPF 58, does not work
for me and failed miserably when I tried to cover a black stripe with a
coating of Cotz. The objective of the black stripe test is  that if the
product covers the black stripe, it will protect me from the sun.  What I
need is a sunblock or makeup that provides equivalent protection of a cloth
mask.Cotz has an SPF rating of 58 which means that I should be able to
withstand 58 times as much exposure to the sun than without wearing Cotz.
Maybe in lab testing, Cotz has an SPF rating of 58, but in real life, Cotz
just doesn't  provide that kind of protection. Dermablend with only an SPF
rating of 30 protects me much better and completely covers the black stripe.
But even Dermablend does not provide the same protection as wearing a mask.

Also in lab testing for SPF rating they use a much large quantity than it is
physically possible to put on one's face. I have tried globbing a teaspoon
of Cotz on my face, but the coating can only get so thick before it drips or
wipes off.  I have also tried putting Dermablend on really thick, but a
thick coating melts through the setting powder and eventually gets sticky.
Also the thicker the coating the more it accentuates my already accentuated
wrinkles from my daily facial swelling. I have tried double coats of
Dermablend creme/powder, and that looks really bad - cakey and cracked. :-)
But when the only alternative is wearing a mask, I can live with the cakey
and cracked.

All I want is a hypoallergenic non-chemical sunblock that provides 100%
protection from the sun.  I have confirmed nickel, citrus and fragrance
allergies. Products claiming to be hypoallergenic or dermatoligist tested
have stuff like grapefruit oil and other citrus ingredients or fragrances.
Dandelion
Andy - 04 Oct 2004 22:10 GMT
>> Is it possible that while it has high SPF - which as I understand it
>> blocks UVB - it has no UVA protection which you also require?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>light spectrum. I don't know what spectrum of light that bothers me, so I
>just want to protect against all of them.

More explanation.. maybe too much :)

Light comes in a continuous spectrum; visible light runs from red to
violet (think of a rainbow!) and red has a longer wavelength than
violet.

'Light' is also known as (electromagnetic) radiation. Radiations of
longer wavelength than red are called infra-red; those of wavelength
shorter than violet are called ultra-violet. The ultra-violet is divided
into A, B, and C. Your eye cannot see infra-red or ultra-violet,
although your body may react to them.

Drawing an "extended rainbow" may help...

long wavelength - - - - - -  - - - - - -- - - - short wavelength

infra-red  red   yellow  green  blue   violet  UVA  UVB  UVC

Albert Einstein teaches us that waves of light can also be regarded as
particles - little lumps of energy. The shorter the wavelength the
bigger the lump: and it's the size of the lumps (as well as how many of
them) hitting you that cause the damage.  UVA comes in medium lumps; UVB
in big lumps; and UVC in ginormous lumps which, luckily, are absorbed by
the atmosphere.

[That's why people worry about the Ozone Layer - it's what absorbs the
UVC from the sun; without it we fry.]

It's been known for some time that UVB is bad for you. What's only
recently been realised is that UVA is also bad, though not as bad. "SPF"
is a measure of the ability to block UVB. There's a different system to
measure UVA blocking - I think it's a "star rating".

If UV bothers you, you need something that blocks both UVA and UVB. And
of course do what you can to minimise exposure.
Signature

Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group]
See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

prh - 24 Mar 2007 18:08 GMT
Funny you did not have a good experience with the product; I have used Cotz
sunblock for the past 6 yrs. and have ran in marathons, biked, swam and have
obviously spent many hrs in the intense sun- my husband does the same and
uses store brands for sports and always burns- I have never burnt and am
thrilled because I am highly sensitive, in fact I have not yet found even a
moisturizer I can use on my face so this was suggested by my esthetician
because I already had some environmental damage. However, I did try their
tinted form in hopes it would serve as make-up and it did drip leaving an
ugly appearance.  

>For those of you with extreme sun sensitivity, don't waste your money on
>Cotz sunblock, SPF 58; it just doesn't work. I wasted months of suffering
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
>how ultra stupid I was. Now I wear long sleeved denim shirts which block
>light much more effectively.
 
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