Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Lupus / March 2007
Cotz sunblock does not work as advertised
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Dandelion77 - 28 Sep 2004 03:33 GMT For those of you with extreme sun sensitivity, don't waste your money on Cotz sunblock, SPF 58; it just doesn't work. I wasted months of suffering on this product because I thought it was protecting me. Also when I sweat, Cotz disintegrates and my whole face turns white, and I look like the robot guy on Star Trek, and then it drips off my chin - a scarey sight indeed. Adding more Cotz sunblock while sweating is futile.
I have an extreme sun allergy, and have used Cotz since it first came out. For the past year I have kept shelling money out for Cotz, and I have wondered why Cotz with an SPF 58 rating wasn't protecting me from an allergic reaction to the sun. Duh! I finally figured out that I could see my red chin through the Cotz coating on my face. A physical sun block should block the sun from reaching my skin, and if I could see my red chin even with Cotz on my face, Cotz wasn't protecting me. To find a product that might actually protect me, I made a black magic marker stripe on my arm to test different products. My logic was that if the product covered the black stripe, the product would not let the sun reach my skin. Cotz did little to cover the black stripe (looked like a black stripe with a thin thin white coating), while other products like Dermablend cover creme, SPF 30, completely covered the black stripe and made the black stripe disappear. I am now using Dermablend cover creme, and my allergic reactions have decreased considerably. With Dermablend, I can now go on a 2 to 3 hour jaunt to the store without my chin burning and feeling like I have been stomped on.
I tested various camaflouge cosmetics which are used for covering birthmarks, surgery etc. including Dermablend, Coverblend, and Maximum Coverage by Estee Lauder. Of those I tested, Dermablend covered the black stripe the best.
As for Dermablend cover creme, if it covers a black stripe, it will cover up most skin imperfections. Dermablend cover creme with the setting powder does accentuate wrinkles. (There also may be some makeup tricks I don't know about, but it surely does accentuate my wrinkles which are already enhanced by my allergic condition. Being that my alternative is getting sick or wearing a mask, Dermablend is the lesser evil.) Lessons I learned: I have to use the setting powder otherwise the cover creme will rub off on everything. The loose setting powder should be applied with a large makeup brush!! Once the powder is on, Dermablend is very difficult to get off; either use the Dermablend remover or a cold cream (cheaper). I have sensitive skin, and the cover creme doesn't bother me, but the Dermablend remover does bother me. Instead I am using Noxema cleanser for sensitive skin, but it takes several applications to remove the Dermablend. I also am using an Almay powder because it is cheaper.
And so I continue my quest to resume a somewhat normal life while living with a sun allergy. Dandelion
PS A simple test for the effectiveness of the sun protection of clothing is to hold it up to a light and look through the cloth. If you can see through the cloth, it isn't protecting you from the sun. I discovered this after working in the garden and noticing heat on my skin while wearing a light weight man's dress shirt. Once I did the light test, it was like discovering how ultra stupid I was. Now I wear long sleeved denim shirts which block light much more effectively.
Lee Thompson-Herbert - 28 Sep 2004 10:54 GMT >For those of you with extreme sun sensitivity, don't waste your money on >Cotz sunblock, SPF 58; it just doesn't work. I wasted months of suffering >on this product because I thought it was protecting me. Also when I sweat, >Cotz disintegrates and my whole face turns white, and I look like the robot >guy on Star Trek, and then it drips off my chin - a scarey sight indeed. >Adding more Cotz sunblock while sweating is futile. What you're complaining about is that Cotz isn't waterproof. This shouldn't be that much news. I use the stuff as well and haven't had problems. It isn't quite as good as Total Block SPF 65, but it's fine.
>[Story about using Dermablend because it's opaque deleted] Except that I also use Dermablend. It really doesn't have that high an SPF rating, and I haven't found it to work nearly as well as Total Block. Or Cotz if you can get it to stay on. It sounds like your real complaint is that you've been using a product that isn't sweatproof. You could actually set the Cotz with white powder the same way you do the Dermablend. That's a common stage makeup trick. Of course, you'd be even whiter, but hey. Some of us haven't got any skin pigment left anyway... ;}
And before you say "But you're probably not that sensitive to UV": I get skin lesions from fluoresent lighting, compact fluoresents thow a more concentrated beam so those are often worse. Not wearing sunblock and a hat when I go to the hospital or my doctors' offices will result in spectacular sunburns. Found this out the hard way when I took my husband to the ER in the middle of the night. I get positively fried by unshielded halogen lighting. The previous owners of my current house put in high-efficiency halogen track lighting. It took me about 2 hours to realize why I felt like I was being burned to death inside the house and replaced all the floods with incandecents. We probably doubled our electricity bill, but so it goes...
And if you're going to buy Solumbra fabric clothing, the company reps I talked to have confirmed that their dark colors block more UV than the light colors do. I'm one of the people who talked them into offering more dark colored items in their catalogue. Especially since they tell people with severe UV sensitivity to buy the dark colored stuff (hard to do when they were offering almost nothing in the dark colors). The difference between 95% and 98% of UV blocked really _does_ make a difference for some of us.
 Signature Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris See my CafePress Shops: http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/CafePress.html "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
J - 28 Sep 2004 13:52 GMT > Except that I also use Dermablend. It really doesn't have that high > an SPF rating, and I haven't found it to work nearly as well as Total Block. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > between 95% and 98% of UV blocked really _does_ make a difference for > some of us. Thanks for your post, Lee. Very important. The halogens save $$ (over a longer period and depending on local hydro rates). In terms of environmental they're also better but obviously not for those with Lupus J
Dandelion77 - 04 Oct 2004 19:33 GMT Lee, Sounds like you know about sun sensitivity. I would just like to point out that we should not believe everything we read. We should just do some common sense tests to find out if a product is actually working. For me and probably you, a product that actually works can mean a world of difference in our lives. For me, it is the difference between staying home and wearing a mask or going out and living a normal life. Cotz was not protecting me, and every time I left the house I would suffer for it.
I am very sensitive to light. I too have replaced all of the flourescents with incandascent light bulbs. Drapes shut, lights off, and I mostly wear a cloth mask most of the time even indoors. In the few minutes that I put my makeup on, I can watch my face turn red in reaction to the incandscent light in the bathroom.
I am mad that I have wasted months on the Cotz product thinking it was protecting me when in fact it was not protecting me. I wore Cotz to the makeup store, driving 1/2 hour under an overcast sky. At the store, I wiped off the Cotz, and my face was beet red underneath. The Cotz just was not protecting me. I am not really all that keen on the Dermablend, but Dermablend has significantly reduced the burning sensation I get from too much light. Dermablend allows me to go to the store without feeling as bad. If I can find a better product than Dermablend, I will use it. Also according to FDA guidelines, the highest SPF companies are supposed to claim is SPF 30, so we really don't know if the Dermablend is better or worse than the Cotz. That is why I came up with my black stripe test. If the product covers the black stripe; odds are is that it will protect me. Just try the black stripe test and you will see what I mean about the Cotz lack of protection. Also under SPF testing, they use like a teaspoon or something like that. I have tried globbing a teaspoon of Cotz on my face - which does not work at all under real world conditions. As for UVA, UVB, I don't know what part of the light spectrum bothers me, so I just want to block out everything.
I also bought some of the light tan Solumbra sunblock material. I just held the tan Solumbra material up to the light and I can see the light plainly through it which means it is not protecting me much at all. My blue denim shirt under the light test shows a vague image of the light and therefore protects me much better. The point being that the expensive Solumbra tan material might beat out normal tan material, but fails miserably against a normal blue denim material.
For others suffering this affliction, here is a tip for making a cloth mask. I use dark colored T-shirt material for the mask. Now on my second year of extreme sun allergy, I have refined my mask - modeling it after surgeons type mask which hooks over the ears. Take a piece of cloth and pull it snug over face. Mark and cut holes for ears so that the material will be snug on face. Now put cloth back on face using ear holes. Pin/mark the cloth to follow the contour of nose and chin. Sew/cut countoured mask. Put back on face and mark eye outline and hole for mouse/nose, then cut cloth. Finally trim bottom and sides of mask for desired sun protection. The mask is ugly, but comfortable and protects. Very easy to unhook from the ear and remove.
Dandelion PS I am still trying to figure out what is wrong with me. The allergist just finished his tests and told me to come back in April. My face is still swollen and continues reacting with no real hope in sight. Sigh!
Lee Thompson-Herbert - 04 Oct 2004 22:36 GMT >I am mad that I have wasted months on the Cotz product thinking it was >protecting me when in fact it was not protecting me. I wore Cotz to the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >much light. Dermablend allows me to go to the store without feeling as bad. >If I can find a better product than Dermablend, I will use it. You might try Total Block, which has chemical sunscreens in it as well as the physical sunblocks. COTZ is really meant for people who cannot tolerate the stronger sunscreens. It may be that you're not using the appropriate product for your problem. See my next paragraph...
>Also >according to FDA guidelines, the highest SPF companies are supposed to claim >is SPF 30, so we really don't know if the Dermablend is better or worse than >the Cotz. This is outdated information. By some years. It was true when the only sunscreen material available was PABA, but it's no longer true. There are a great many more sunscreens out there now, many of which block both UVA and UVB. Physical blocks also exist, which are _all_ that's in COTZ. That may be the other reason you're not having as much luck with it. Dermablend has chemical sunscreens in it along with the titanium dioxide block. If your sensitivity is to UVA, you need a sunscreen that blocks that band. Avobenzone, salicylates, oxybenzone, sulisobenzone, and cinnimates are all good broad-band sunscreens. Avobenzone in particular is used for UVA blocking. This is when it pays to read the labels carefully and know what each ingredient does.
>That is why I came up with my black stripe test. If the product >covers the black stripe; odds are is that it will protect me. Just try the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >what part of the light spectrum bothers me, so I just want to block out >everything. The trick to applying a lot of sunblock is to do it in layers. The stuff will dry if you do it carefully. Maybe I have better luck because I've done theatrical makeup for so long. You're right that sunblocks with a lot of titanium or zinc oxide in them will make your face look pearly white, but that's a simple consequence of having a mineral pigment as the sunblock. Since I'm nearly that white to start with, it's never bothered me. And again, applying setting powder afterwards just like you would with the Dermablend will improve the staying power of any makeup or sunblock.
UVB in general causes sunburn. UVA penetrates deeper and is more likely to cause photosensitivity reactions and affect connective tissues. It sounds like you have a combination of using the wrong product for your problem and not using nearly enough, as well needing a waterproof product to at least partially protect from streaking and running.
Each of us is going to have different results. I positively fry if I use something that doesn't have a high percentage of titanium dioxide in it, and SPF30 is the absolute lowest rating I can use. The Dermablend would be useless unless I used it as a tattoo concealer (which is essentially what you're doing). I use it to cover scars, and by itself, it's not nearly enough. When applied over COTZ or Total Block or a similar sunblock, it's fine. I tend to use COTZ when my skin is too inflamed to tolerate the stronger chemical sunblocks in Total Block (or even the stuff in Banana Boat SPF 50). Otherwise, I'd rather get the higher coverage.
>I also bought some of the light tan Solumbra sunblock material. I just held >the tan Solumbra material up to the light and I can see the light plainly [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >material might beat out normal tan material, but fails miserably against a >normal blue denim material. Thickness and weave of the material does make a difference, yes. The advantage of Solumbra and Solarweave is that you won't get heatstroke while wearing them. For some of us, that's a pretty pressing matter. The dark colored Solumbra fabrics block considerably more UV than the light colored ones do, which was confirmed by the company reps. They now recommend that anyone with severe UV sensitivity buy their darker colors.
[...]
>PS I am still trying to figure out what is wrong with me. The allergist just >finished his tests and told me to come back in April. My face is still >swollen and continues reacting with no real hope in sight. Sigh! Have you been tested for autoimmune diseases yet? I've found that the dermatologist was actually pretty useless, even though I had classic discoid lupus lesions. It wasn't until I saw a rheumatolgist that I got treatment that did anything significant.
I've had UV sensitivity since before sunscreens were available. And found out the hard way that PABA-based ones could make autoimmune problems worse. I've learned to read the labels very, very carefully over the years and to read the reasearch. I've seen the FDA change their opinion multiple times on what was considered the "practial limit" for sunscreens. At one point, 15 _was_ the highest rating out there, now it's considered the minimum safe rating you should use. So take any pronouncements on what the "real" highest rating is with a grain of salt. Especially since a lot of the info out on the net doesn't get updated regularly.
 Signature Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris See my CafePress Shops: http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/CafePress.html "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
Andy - 28 Sep 2004 11:00 GMT >For those of you with extreme sun sensitivity, don't waste your money on >Cotz sunblock, SPF 58; it just doesn't work. [snip detail]
Is it possible that while it has high SPF - which as I understand it blocks UVB - it has no UVA protection which you also require?
 Signature Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!
Dandelion77 - 04 Oct 2004 20:54 GMT > Is it possible that while it has high SPF - which as I understand it > blocks UVB - it has no UVA protection which you also require? > -- > Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] I have used Cotz since it first came out. I had done a lot of research on different sunblocks, and Cotz was the best non-chemical sun block I could find (according to advertising and SPF rating). Chemical sunblocks bother me. Cotz is a physical sunblock and is supposed to protect for the entire light spectrum. I don't know what spectrum of light that bothers me, so I just want to protect against all of them. But Cotz, SPF 58, does not work for me and failed miserably when I tried to cover a black stripe with a coating of Cotz. The objective of the black stripe test is that if the product covers the black stripe, it will protect me from the sun. What I need is a sunblock or makeup that provides equivalent protection of a cloth mask.Cotz has an SPF rating of 58 which means that I should be able to withstand 58 times as much exposure to the sun than without wearing Cotz. Maybe in lab testing, Cotz has an SPF rating of 58, but in real life, Cotz just doesn't provide that kind of protection. Dermablend with only an SPF rating of 30 protects me much better and completely covers the black stripe. But even Dermablend does not provide the same protection as wearing a mask.
Also in lab testing for SPF rating they use a much large quantity than it is physically possible to put on one's face. I have tried globbing a teaspoon of Cotz on my face, but the coating can only get so thick before it drips or wipes off. I have also tried putting Dermablend on really thick, but a thick coating melts through the setting powder and eventually gets sticky. Also the thicker the coating the more it accentuates my already accentuated wrinkles from my daily facial swelling. I have tried double coats of Dermablend creme/powder, and that looks really bad - cakey and cracked. :-) But when the only alternative is wearing a mask, I can live with the cakey and cracked.
All I want is a hypoallergenic non-chemical sunblock that provides 100% protection from the sun. I have confirmed nickel, citrus and fragrance allergies. Products claiming to be hypoallergenic or dermatoligist tested have stuff like grapefruit oil and other citrus ingredients or fragrances. Dandelion
Andy - 04 Oct 2004 22:10 GMT >> Is it possible that while it has high SPF - which as I understand it >> blocks UVB - it has no UVA protection which you also require? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >light spectrum. I don't know what spectrum of light that bothers me, so I >just want to protect against all of them. More explanation.. maybe too much :)
Light comes in a continuous spectrum; visible light runs from red to violet (think of a rainbow!) and red has a longer wavelength than violet.
'Light' is also known as (electromagnetic) radiation. Radiations of longer wavelength than red are called infra-red; those of wavelength shorter than violet are called ultra-violet. The ultra-violet is divided into A, B, and C. Your eye cannot see infra-red or ultra-violet, although your body may react to them.
Drawing an "extended rainbow" may help...
long wavelength - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - short wavelength
infra-red red yellow green blue violet UVA UVB UVC
Albert Einstein teaches us that waves of light can also be regarded as particles - little lumps of energy. The shorter the wavelength the bigger the lump: and it's the size of the lumps (as well as how many of them) hitting you that cause the damage. UVA comes in medium lumps; UVB in big lumps; and UVC in ginormous lumps which, luckily, are absorbed by the atmosphere.
[That's why people worry about the Ozone Layer - it's what absorbs the UVC from the sun; without it we fry.]
It's been known for some time that UVB is bad for you. What's only recently been realised is that UVA is also bad, though not as bad. "SPF" is a measure of the ability to block UVB. There's a different system to measure UVA blocking - I think it's a "star rating".
If UV bothers you, you need something that blocks both UVA and UVB. And of course do what you can to minimise exposure.
 Signature Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!
prh - 24 Mar 2007 18:08 GMT Funny you did not have a good experience with the product; I have used Cotz sunblock for the past 6 yrs. and have ran in marathons, biked, swam and have obviously spent many hrs in the intense sun- my husband does the same and uses store brands for sports and always burns- I have never burnt and am thrilled because I am highly sensitive, in fact I have not yet found even a moisturizer I can use on my face so this was suggested by my esthetician because I already had some environmental damage. However, I did try their tinted form in hopes it would serve as make-up and it did drip leaving an ugly appearance.
>For those of you with extreme sun sensitivity, don't waste your money on >Cotz sunblock, SPF 58; it just doesn't work. I wasted months of suffering [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >how ultra stupid I was. Now I wear long sleeved denim shirts which block >light much more effectively.
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