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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Lupus / June 2004

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Pantothenic Acid (vitamin B5) vs. Lupus

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galya - 30 May 2004 08:50 GMT
Dear all,

I don't have lupus and don't know much about the disorder.  This post
is just to inform you about a newly published paper suggesting that
taking mega doses of vitamin B5 may help SLE.
The paper was published in the peer-reviewed journal Medical
Hypotheses by a researcher who in 1995 published a similar paper
regarding B5 vs. acne.  That paper was posted on alt.skincare.acne
newsgroup http://groups.google.com/groups?q=alt.skincare.acne&btnG=Search&meta=site%3Dgroups
around 2000 by a pharmacist who suffered from acne and was helped by
taking B5.  Ever since, many people have found it to be great for
clearing their acne and the topic has been probably the most discussed
topic on that newsgroup.

Following is the Medline abstract of the paper.  Please note that I
see myself only as the messenger (someone in my family benefited
tremendously from 2-4 grams of B5/daily for clearing acne - after I
'found' it discussed in the above newsgroup) and will not be able to
contribute to any farther discussion wrt SLE;-).

Regards,
galya

Med Hypotheses. 2004;62(6):922-4.  Related Articles, Links  

 
Systemic lupus erythematosus: a combined deficiency disease.

Leung LH.

Department of General Surgery, Hong Kong Central Hospital, Hong Kong.

To date, the pathogenesis of systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE)
remains unclear. By critically analyzing clinical facts and laboratory
data, a hypothesis is proposed: drug-induced lupus erythematosus
(DILE) is linked to a deficiency in Coenzyme A (CoA) that is secondary
to a deficiency in pantothenic acid. This hypothesis is used to
explain the high incidence of SLE in females, the role of sex hormones
in this disease and the mechanism underlying a flare. The actions of
anti-malarials and steroids are also discussed. The protean clinical
presentation of SLE is attributed to co-existing deficiencies of
dietary factors in addition to pantothenic acid. Contributing factors
to these deficiencies may include increased nutritional requirements
resulting from gene mutations. Treatment is replacement therapy with
doses of pantothenic acid that is hundreds of times higher than that
of the Dietary Reference Intake (DRI) and other vitamins. Using this
method, 12 SLE females were studied with promising results.

PMID: 15142649 [PubMed - in process]
J - 30 May 2004 09:30 GMT
> Dear all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> The paper was published in the peer-reviewed journal Medical
> Hypotheses

is one thing..clinical trials are another.
I have problems reading pdf files, but if someone could take a look here. It mentions such and
lupus
http://www.foodstandards.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/evm_pantothenicacid.pdf (I think I saw gastro
upsets, but not sure)

I also have a problem with someone who "doesn't know much about Lupus" AND suggested coffee
enemas to the son of someone who has advanced unresectable pancreatic cancer.

This vitamin may already be in our foods and vitamin supplement that some of you may take, but
mega doses should be checked out first, IMO

So FWIW and check with your doctors. If I have time later, I'll try find more information.

Hugs
J
Timothy Luders - 30 May 2004 15:29 GMT
>> Dear all,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> Hugs
> J

http://www.kingsoopers.com/HN_Concern/Lupus.htm

Preliminary research suggests that pantothenic acid, when taken together
with vitamin E, may help those with DLE. In one trial, taking 10 to 15
grams of pantothenic acid per day with 1,500 to 3,000 IU of vitamin E per
day for as long as 19 months, helped 67 people with DLE.51 Pantothenic acid
by itself for shorter periods of time in lower amounts has been reported to
fail.52 The amounts of pantothenic acid and vitamin E used in the first
trial are very high and should not be taken without the supervision of a
physician.
Andy - 30 May 2004 16:53 GMT
[]
>http://www.kingsoopers.com/HN_Concern/Lupus.htm
>
>Preliminary research suggests that pantothenic acid, when taken together
>with vitamin E, may help those with DLE.

Can I emphasise that this, and the original posting, refer to
DRUG-INDUCED Lupus. I haven't heard of DLE produced by anything other
than a medically-prescribed drug (*), so hopefully this research, if
validated, will be a way for your physician to undo that which s/he
inadvertently did.

* which doesn't mean it can't happen :(
Signature

Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group]
See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

Timothy Luders - 31 May 2004 01:26 GMT
> []
>>http://www.kingsoopers.com/HN_Concern/Lupus.htm
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> * which doesn't mean it can't happen :(

Actually it was referring to discoid lupus. But point well taken.

Timothy
Andy - 31 May 2004 12:03 GMT
>> []
>>>http://www.kingsoopers.com/HN_Concern/Lupus.htm
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>Actually it was referring to discoid lupus. But point well taken.

H'mmm. The medical summary at the bottom of the original posting begins

       To date, the pathogenesis of systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE)
       remains unclear. By critically analyzing clinical facts and
       laboratory data, a hypothesis is proposed: drug-induced lupus
       erythematosus (DILE) is linked to a deficiency in Coenzyme A
       (CoA) that is secondary to a deficiency in pantothenic acid.

and continues

       This hypothesis is used to explain the high incidence of SLE in
       females, the role of sex hormones in this disease and the
       mechanism underlying a flare. ... The protean clinical
       presentation of SLE is attributed to co-existing deficiencies of
       dietary factors in addition to pantothenic acid. ... Treatment
       is replacement therapy with doses of pantothenic acid that is
       hundreds of times higher than that of the Dietary Reference
       Intake (DRI) and other vitamins. Using this method, 12 SLE
       females were studied with promising results.

This I interpret as saying that the "pantothenic deficiency hypothesis"
arose from studies of Drug-Induced Lupus and has been directly applied
to Systemic lupus. That's fair, as a hypothesis is a possible
explanation of a set of observations capable of being tested.

Your kingsoopers link says:

       Systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) is an autoimmune illness that
       causes a characteristic rash accompanied by inflammation of
       connective tissue, particularly joints, throughout the body. In
       autoimmune diseases, the immune system attacks the body instead
       of protecting it. Kidney, lung, and vascular damage are
       potential problems resulting from SLE.

...

       Discoid lupus erythematosus (DLE) is a milder form of lupus that
       affects the skin. Like SLE, it's not known what causes DLE,
       though sun exposure may trigger the first outbreak. DLE is most
       common among women in their thirties.

Then a table gives a 1-star rating to the supplements Pantothenic acid &
Vitamin E and the herb Astragalus; defined below the box as "An herb is
primarily supported by traditional use, or the herb or supplement has
little scientific support and/or minimal health benefit."

Lower down it says:

       Preliminary research suggests that pantothenic acid, when taken
       together with vitamin E, may help those with DLE. In one trial,
       taking 10 to 15 grams of pantothenic acid per day with 1,500 to
       3,000 IU of vitamin E per day for as long as 19 months, helped
       67 people with DLE. Pantothenic acid by itself for shorter
       periods of time in lower amounts has been reported to fail. The
       amounts of pantothenic acid and vitamin E used in the first
       trial are very high and should not be taken without the
       supervision of a physician.

and

       One Chinese preliminary trial also found that astragalus could
       decrease overactive immune function in people with systemic
       lupus erythematosus. However, much more research is needed to
       know whether astragalus is safe in lupus or any other autoimmune
       disease.

I would interpret this as meaning that Pantothenic acid with Vitamin E,
and the herb Astragalus, are maybe worth a carefully controlled medical
trial in both discoid and systemic lupus. Or putting it differently,
watch this space but don't try it at home.
Signature

Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group]
See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

Lee Thompson-Herbert - 31 May 2004 22:13 GMT
[...]
>        Preliminary research suggests that pantothenic acid, when taken
>        together with vitamin E, may help those with DLE. In one trial,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>        trial are very high and should not be taken without the
>        supervision of a physician.

No kidding those doses are high.  10 to 15 _grams_?!  And that dose of
vitamin E is high enough that you'd have to watch out for bleeding problems.
Especially if you're already on drugs that inhibit platelet formation.

[...]
>I would interpret this as meaning that Pantothenic acid with Vitamin E,
>and the herb Astragalus, are maybe worth a carefully controlled medical
>trial in both discoid and systemic lupus. Or putting it differently,
>watch this space but don't try it at home.

Definitely don't try that at home.  Just the dose of vitamin E that they
used in the study is high enough to be dangerous without supervision.  
That's almost as scary as the study back when I was a teenager that suggested
that megadosing on vitamin A would help DLE.  It sort of did, because it
encouraged the keratonous layer of the skin to grow more normally, but the
risk of liver damage was...uh...high...which is exactly why anyone on accutane
has to have regular blood tests done (it's a much more potent synthetic form
of vitamin A).  My idiot mother decided that she'd just give me loads of
vitamin A, and I not knowing any better at the time, took it.  I'm lucky
I don't have permanent damage from it.

Signature

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Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris
See my CafePress Shops: http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/CafePress.html
"A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"

Andy - 01 Jun 2004 10:06 GMT
[
> My idiot mother decided that she'd just give me loads of
>vitamin A, and I not knowing any better at the time, took it.  I'm lucky
>I don't have permanent damage from it.

Isn't it Vitamin A that seal liver contains a huge amount of? I
understand that if you are in the unusual situation of being stranded in
the Arctic, you must NOT catch a seal and eat the liver because the
vitamin overdose will kill you.
Signature

Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group]
See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

J - 01 Jun 2004 10:36 GMT
> Isn't it Vitamin A that seal liver contains a huge amount of? I
> understand that if you are in the unusual situation of being stranded in
> the Arctic, you must NOT catch a seal and eat the liver because the
> vitamin overdose will kill you.

It will kill the seal too.
J
Andy - 01 Jun 2004 11:48 GMT
In article <40BC4E0A.478F50BA@execulink.com>, J <jimster@anon.anon>
wrote

>> Isn't it Vitamin A that seal liver contains a huge amount of? I
>> understand that if you are in the unusual situation of being stranded in
>> the Arctic, you must NOT catch a seal and eat the liver because the
>> vitamin overdose will kill you.
>
>It will kill the seal too.

No, the seal naturally has this high level of Vitamin whatever in its
liver.
Signature

Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group]
See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

J - 01 Jun 2004 12:15 GMT
> >> Isn't it Vitamin A that seal liver contains a huge amount of? I
> >> understand that if you are in the unusual situation of being stranded in
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> No, the seal naturally has this high level of Vitamin whatever in its
> liver.

I was joking sort of. A seal cannot live without it's liver, you have to kill
it first (or leave it dying on the ice floe)
J
Andy - 01 Jun 2004 13:48 GMT
In article <40BC6553.4E0CA758@execulink.com>, J <jimster@anon.anon>
wrote
[snip seals]

>I was joking sort of. A seal cannot live without it's liver, you have to kill
>it first (or leave it dying on the ice floe)
>J

Got one...
Signature

Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group]
See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

Bruce On. - 01 Jun 2004 18:00 GMT
Ok you two , I'll try and settle this by going fishing this aft and catch
one and see who dies first:)))

> [snip seals]
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> >
> Got one...
J - 30 May 2004 18:40 GMT
> > This vitamin may already be in our foods and vitamin supplement that some of you may take, but
> > mega doses should be checked out first, IMO
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> trial are very high and should not be taken without the supervision of a
> physician.

Thanks Timothy,
J
 
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