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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Lupus / May 2004cervical pain relief?
Hi, I had a cervical fusion done in 99 and did well with that. Instant pain relief. Then last year I started having terrible head and neck aches with nausea along with it. I use a soft collar for support when riding in our car of motor home. I had injections of cortisone and Novocain into the sides of the cervical spine, as well as into the back of the head. Where pressure points were tender. Man the first one was terrible and made the headache actually worse....... Then the second time ( I was really hesitant but ) I had it done, it did give me relief for a good couple months PROBLEM now. they are back. The arthritis is worse and the pain and headaches are here again. I am told by my rheumy that is a lot of cortisone to use, and I am on it by pill all the time too cause of lupus. She thinks it is too much all the time. MY dexa scan shows more deterioration of the spine also but just right at normal but moving to NOT. So my dilemma is this Do I got back and have it done again and hope it works? Do I find something else to do for the pain? Now I have seen here someone post they are having a block by a neuro doc? Was it done and how did it work? How was it done? My pain doc says oh it is fine, the shots, cause it is not a lot of cortisone but he also wants BOTOX into the spine and I said NO cause of the lupus and he says it won't hurt. But dang my rheumy says IF I do it, it will be on me cause the botox is a poison and lupus is already compromising your immune system worse. I flunked imuran and plaq so we so far HAVE to stick with medrol. poo anyone tell me or help me decide what to do. I know it is a lot to ask that but I am looking for ideas around. I am sorry this is long too thanks janers I also posted this on ASA too I don't know a whole lot about this, so take what I say with that in mind. I have deterioration of the discs in my lumbar region, but I am not sure if there is "arthritis" in the spin there (so I am not sure if my experience would apply to yours). I know I hurt often (my most severe pain coming from my back). I went through a series of nerve blocks in conjunction with cortisone in the nerves and muscles around the lower spine. Hurt like anything while it was done (I fainted the first time around!), but it helped a lot. I went to a pain clinic for this -- Have you been assessed by a good pain clinic? I know for some spinal pain they can insert a pain pump surgically into the spinal column. It is a catheter that I believe is attached to a device that releases a steady stream of pain medication (I am not sure if the device is internal or external). I've heard great things about it. It isn't as toxic because it goes directly to the source of the pain. I also use Lidoderm patches, but for the intensity of pain you are talking about I am not sure that is appropriate. Hope this helps some. Keep us updated on what they decide! Stephanie > Hi, > I had a cervical fusion done in 99 and did well with that. Instant pain [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > janers > I also posted this on ASA too I too have had DDD of the lumbar spine Stephanie. I had a disc removed in 98 there. So that makes for 2 disc, one cervical fusion added all in 10 months time. I use a tens unit for back pain and this pain now is in the area of thoracic ( or the chest area, and cervical (neck) that is the worst wear on my spine now apparantly. I do not like to hear that. In between Tens I use lidoderm patches also. They do a little help but sometimes not enough. The dr I see runs the Pain clinic I go too. He is the one that did the injections of novacaine and kenolog into pressure points aside my neck and into my hair line on the head. HE is also the one who wants to do BOTOX...no nonononononononono you mentioned you were not sure if there was arthritis of the spine. they call this cervical spondylosis, or a fancy name for arthritis some call it. It is also deterioration of the spine itself...not the disc in general too but the combination of it. At least that is what DOC told me. confused. JOIN me LOL. thanks for your concern and I will let you know what happens by next week for sure janers ouch ouch ouch.. i have no good input at all. I am sending you prayers and well wishes as this sounds miserable. ... spoiler.. smart*ss comment following: i had a different definition of "cervical pain relief" before I read the post. ;-) My suggestion for relief would have seemed a bit contradictory. <EG> KCat - preparing for Andy to find time to take this one and run with it... Whoa Kcat. Way on the other END..... thanks though, I appreciate your kind words janers [ >i had a different definition of "cervical pain relief" before I read the >post. ;-) My suggestion for relief would have seemed a bit contradictory. ><EG> > >KCat - preparing for Andy to find time to take this one and run with it... I'll see if I can rise to the challenge...  SignatureAndy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more! > I'll see if I can rise to the challenge... If not - I have received a number of emails offering a possible solution. or should I say, several possible solutions (choose visual or chemical) :P >> I'll see if I can rise to the challenge... > >If not - I have received a number of emails offering a possible solution. >or should I say, several possible solutions (choose visual or chemical) :P I also used to get many of these, until my ISP installed a Brightmail filter. SignatureAndy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more! > Hi, > I had a cervical fusion done in 99 and did well with that. Instant pain [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > pressure points were tender. Man the first one was terrible and made the > headache actually worse..... Well you could try lidocaine or novocaine only in the pressure points, but IME that's short-acting only. Does massage make the neck pain better or worse? If better, that would say to me there's some muscle involvement - maybe a very mild muscle relaxant but first I'd look at (changing or using some type of collar on your neck while sleeping - you could try rolled towels first before deciding what might be best to buy). - also pillow shape and/or thickness or hardness /softness. I don't like the idea of pain pump (for you), since the steroid use leaves you open to infections. I can only have cortisone injections in the same joint or area, every 3 months because it can "damage soft tissue" is my understanding. Have you asked about ultrasound -guided injections ? They can push a button and sometimes see where the worst imflammation is. It made a huge difference in my left shoulder, but not so much in my right (so far) Just running some ideas by you and sometimes it's combos that might help. Hope you find relief soon Janers, Hugs J first thanks people for the info and suggestions. I have tried the injections into the pressure points and they HURT like hell but the second set, they did work for a long while. I also use a collar when riding in a car and 3 pillows for props in bed. support support. I had to learn that before I had my cervical fusion LOL. The cortisone they use for the pressure points is kenolog and it is only like 1 % or so. I still don't like getting more steriods but looks like no other choice. What is this ultrasound _ guided injections? NEVER heard of it but I have had ultra sound done...where can I find info on it, then I will ask about it. I also did message and it made it worse to the point of vomiting sometimes. dont't know why but when it is over that happpens...never did find that one out, just stopped it. nothing more here. keep you updated. I DO MEAN UP KCat...tee hee janers > first thanks people for the info and suggestions. > > I have tried the injections into the pressure points and they HURT like > hell but the second set, they did work for a long while. I also use a > collar when riding in a car and 3 pillows for props in bed. I'm suggesting a review of that and perhaps a camera while you're sleeping. What might feel right while you're awake and sitting might be doing "harm" once your muscles are relaxed (you're sleeping). Only a camera of what happens after you fall asleep and sleep through the night, might enlighten. > support > support. I had to learn that before I had my cervical fusion LOL. > The cortisone they use for the pressure points is kenolog and it is only > like 1 % or so. Similar to me Janers (in my shoulder joints). I've not had tender points injected unless they happened be in the same area of where they were aiming the needle to the joint. I did have a tender point near my right neck last night, it's referred from my "shoulder girdle" pain. I must have overdone dragging a heavy tire out of the car trunk or pushing the repaired lawn mower home and washing the floors. Massage and/or rest helped mine and it's gone this morning. > I still don't like getting more steriods but looks like no > other choice. Well, there's other pain medications. There's MS Contin which contains morphine. Some FM'ers take it. I don't know the ins and outs of it. Perhaps you could talk to a pain specialist. > What is this ultrasound _ guided injections? NEVER heard of it but I have > had ultra sound done...where can I find info on it, then I will ask about > it. > I also did message and it made it worse to the point of vomiting sometimes. I'm thinking that might be due to the headache/migraine part? A relative of mine is trying baby dose of Topamax, but she doesn't have all your complicated history http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/topiram.htm Topiramate is a sulfamate-substituted - which I don't know if is safe for you Topamax and migraines http://www.migraines.org/treatment/protpmax.htm. An ultrasound machine is usually used to diagnose (view parts of the anatomy). My first series of injections were done in a doctor's office and she was poking in the needle "blind" (guessing at the correct angle, location and depth of where to release the steroid and *caine (marcaine, novocaine, lidocaine). With the ultrasound guided injection, the doctor can: 1) feel where the most painful area is on that day, then 2) a tech runs the ultrasound over the area (they mark the spots of interest or the target area), the doctor views the structures and any thickening of tissues and sometimes can see the exact point of inflammation (is my understanding). We can watch the needle going in (If I want) on the ultrasound screen. They watch it going in. Tuesday they worked together on deciding to pull the needle back a bit, and then release the cortisone. So it helps them pinpoint the exact spot to release the cortisone is my understanding. It's explained here for shoulders and other areas http://www.sonosite.com/media_article_bachmann.html I don't know if such would (or wouldn't ) be helpful to your situation nor what it costs. And perhaps only a try would say unless your specialists would say "nope" doesn't work for your situation . Hugs Janers, J-not an expert in any of this. One more quick thought - I had headaches, neck pain, nausea and vomiting for a long period of time (but for a different reason - Chiari Malformation - so they thought). I took Nortryptiline for about a year and it helped immensely. Are you on any headache medications? Steph > > first thanks people for the info and suggestions. > > [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > J-not an expert in any of this. I have tried neurontin as well as those tryptillines. The neurontin sent me off on a tangent. (you don't want to know LOL) the others cause me to have irregular heart beat. Only thing taking now is skelaxin and celebrex as well as medrol. and heart meds, thyroid, Prilosec 40, folic acid vitamins and calcium. I am calling the pain clinic tues day can't take this janers Ugh - I am so sorry you feel so lousy. I pray they get you out of pain soon! > I have tried neurontin as well as those tryptillines. The neurontin sent > me off on a tangent. (you don't want to know LOL) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > janers >I also use a >collar when riding in a car and 3 pillows for props in bed. Have you considered using a wedge pillow instead of multiple pillows? I use a wedge and a D-shaped cervical pillow now, and that actualy gives better support to my neck and shoulders than a stack of pillows. It also irritates my ribs a lot less, as there's no sharp angle upward. I bought an 8" wedge, which elevates the head but doesn't jack you up too high. The cheapest source I've found is Knox Foam, who also sell extra removeable covers for their wedge pillows and will make custom sizes as well: http://www.knoxfoam.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/Wedgebolster/bedwedges.htm?L+scstor e+tbht9480+1085803485 SignatureLee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris See my CafePress Shops: http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/CafePress.html "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" |
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