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Medical Forum / General / Laboratory / March 2008Blood samples for hemotology study
What is the best way to procure test tubes of fresh blood for study? The pathology department around here always has the AIDS blood. I need healthier blood to study under microscope. > What is the best way to procure test tubes of fresh blood for study? > The pathology department around here always has the AIDS blood. I need > healthier blood to study under microscope. And how, haematologically speaking, do you feel that "AIDS blood" will differ from "healthier blood" under the microscope? > > What is the best way to procure test tubes of fresh blood for study? > > The pathology department around here always has the AIDS blood. I need > > healthier blood to study under microscope. > > And how, haematologically speaking, do you feel that "AIDS blood" will > differ from "healthier blood" under the microscope? That's a non-issue. The issue is that AIDS blood is DANGEROUS. Why do I have to type this? On Jan 9, 9:12 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: > "x01001x" <xem...@softhome.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > And how, haematologically speaking, do you feel that "AIDS blood" will > differ from "healthier blood" under the microscope? That's a non-issue. The issue is that AIDS blood is DANGEROUS. Why do I have to type this? ________________________________ AIDS blood is dangerous? Why? Because of the virus that died within seconds of the blood sample being collected? Or because of any virus that might possibly have survived only to be killed in the fixation process before going under the microscope? And your implicit assumption that blood from a non - HIV source is safe speaks volumes. Why do *I* have to type this? - The fact that obviously I do have to makes me think that perhaps you might be better off typing "blood microscopy" into Google images I believe that I read somewhere that Hepatitis B (and probably other types) can survive on dried surfaces for quite some time (months). You must wear gloves and protective gowns when working with ANY blood nowadays. In the US, this is called "universal precautions" and is required in all laboratories. It consists of using PPE (personal protective equipment) which, at the minimum, consists of gloves and fluid proof gown over your clothing. If you don't use this when working with blood nowadays you're taking many chances. http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dhqp/bp_universal_precautions.html If you're that worried, have someone stick you and draw a whole bunch of tubes. If you refrigerate them, you can work on them for a few days. I would assume you need EDTA blood for what you're doing. Recruiting friends is not a good idea either because you have no idea of what their HIV status is over a stranger. You must assume that all blood is the same, i.e. potentially infectious, and take the proper precautions when working with it. What are you studying anyway? Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology (but used to Hematology years ago) > Why do *I* have to type this? - The fact that obviously I do have to > makes me think that perhaps you might be better off typing "blood > microscopy" into Google images I'm trying to buy lab samples. Is there a company that supplies blood samples for study? Usually I see them providing dried blood on a slide. That's why I was specifically asking for test tubes with wet fresh blood. > I'm trying to buy lab samples. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That's why I was specifically asking for test tubes with wet fresh > blood. What on earth do you want to do with this stuff ? How do you intend to "study" it? Perhaps we should report this to department of homeland security? Sounds like a future bio-terrorist. He gives me the shivers already. 'I ain't never been lost, but I may have been confused once or twice'.---Daniel Boone >> I'm trying to buy lab samples. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > What on earth do you want to do with this stuff ? How do you intend to > "study" it? It would help alot if you would tell us how or what you are trying to do with the fresh samples. I assume you have never worked in a clinical laboratory and are striking out on your own, otherwise the educational system where you are doing the study would be able to procure fresh specimens for you daily. Most of us here have a clinical laboratory or other laboratory background. If you really want the help just tell us what you are trying to do. We can guide you appropriately. BTW Judy's response was dead on.... > I'm trying to buy lab samples. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That's why I was specifically asking for test tubes with wet fresh > blood. > It would help alot if you would tell us how or what you are trying to do > with the fresh samples. I assume you have never worked in a clinical > laboratory and are striking out on your own, otherwise the educational > system where you are doing the study would be able to procure fresh > specimens for you daily. Which is why I can't help but feel that Google images or something like http://www.haematology.org/ might be more use. First of all, I DO have experience dealing with biohazards and biosamples. Usually though I am dealing with human tissue stored in preservatives, not blood. Second, I have experience dealing with microbotany, and am migrating to the study of hemoglobin under microscope. I want the test tubes so I can keep them cold and also put them through centrifuge, which is impossible with slide samples. I'm going to request that you guys stop making me type stuff that's not necessary, and just answer the question. Honestly, people with doctorates get away with murder! "HEY! WHERE ARE YOU GOING WITH THAT TEST TUBE!?" > First of all, I DO have experience dealing with biohazards and > biosamples. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I'm going to request that you guys stop making me type stuff that's > not necessary, and just answer the question. I'm sorry for any offence, but in the same vein I'm going to ask that (bearing in mind your allleged experience) that you stop asking questions that lead us to beleive you have absoltely no experience in the field at all. Take for example your sentence "migrating to the study of hemoglobin under microscope. I want the test tubes so I can keep them cold and also put them through centrifuge, which is impossible with slide samples." What exactly do you have in mind? What "study" are you trying to do? Perhaps if you were a bt more forthcoming with what you are attempting, we could be more helpful..... I am not trying to be mean or anything...but do you realize what "study hemoglobin under microscope" sounds like to us. Are you going to be using something other than a light microscope. If not I assume you are going to be doing gross studies of rbc structure. Any study of hemoglobin under the microscope is going to require whole blood, the hemoglobin is in the RBC unless you are lysing the red blood cells. I do not question your abilities or you knowledge in your primary field. If you want help with this project quit being evasive when we ask a question. Give us enough information to help you out. Your initial inquiry and responses indicated you didn't have a clue about clinical laboratory science. No intent to offend you here, but if you want help, be more specific and forthcomming with you questions and answers. > First of all, I DO have experience dealing with biohazards and > biosamples. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > "HEY! WHERE ARE YOU GOING WITH THAT TEST TUBE!?" There's not just a whole lot of reason for me to bend over backwards for you guys on this one. Dealing with AIDS contaminated blood is dangerous. I shouldn't have to justify seeking safe blood. > There's not just a whole lot of reason for me to bend over backwards > for you guys on this one. > Dealing with AIDS contaminated blood is dangerous. > I shouldn't have to justify seeking safe blood. Would a dead dog bite you? Human tissue stored in preservatives would equate to formalin (which kills microorganisms) in my book. Working with tissue in formalin is nothing like working with fresh body fluids, although there are many safety hazards involved with formalin - just not the same ones as with fresh fluids. Microbotany and clinical laboratories are pretty far apart, in my book. Perhaps you should visit your local lab for a tour. If you're going to centrifuge blood do you want blood in an anticoagulant (there are many: EDTA, sodium/lithium heparin, fluoride, just to name a few) or clotted so you can centrifuge to get the serum? If you centrifuge blood with anticoagulant you get plasma, not serum. WHAT are you looking for? BTW, most of us don't have doctorates - we have specialized training in clinical laboratory work. Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology (but did Hematology/Chemistry years ago) > First of all, I DO have experience dealing with biohazards and > biosamples. Usually though I am dealing with human tissue stored in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Honestly, people with doctorates get away with murder! Thanks, Arcie, for the vote of confidence [and I'm not even a person with a doctorate :-)]. Seriously, fresh blood deteriorates quickly. Blood is drawn into EDTA tubes for CBC's. They're really no good for clinical use after about 24 hours - less for platelets. What are you going to see in wet blood under a microscope? Lots and lots of undifferentiated RBC's. You can poke your finger and smear it on a slide in come physiological saline and coverslip it and get the same result. Again, have someone poke you every couple of days and put the blood in some purple top tubes and you can provide your own blood. I doubt whether anyone would "sell" you blood specimens for study. Likewise, I don't think you could just go into a clinical lab and ask them for some tubes of blood. Daily specimens are kept in most clinical labs for a certain number of days - not necessarily to retest, but sometimes to check for other things like identification, etc. I have heard of hemoglobin electrophoresis studies, but not looking at hemoglobin under a microscope (unless you're doing something along the lines of electron microscopy). Hemoglobin levels are routinely performed on automated equipment in virtually all clinical laboratories. We'll help if you'll meet us halfway. There are a LOT of experienced clinical laboratory people on this newsgroup. Again, if you'd quit being cagey, we could help. Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology (but did Hematology years ago) BTW Judy's response was dead on.... >> I'm trying to buy lab samples. Is there a company that supplies blood >> samples for study? >I believe that I read somewhere that Hepatitis B (and probably other types) >can survive on dried surfaces for quite some time (months). You must wear [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >clothing. If you don't use this when working with blood nowadays you're >taking many chances. Agree entirely > If you're that worried, have someone stick you and draw a whole bunch of > tubes. If you refrigerate them, you can work on them for a few days. I > would assume you need EDTA blood for what you're doing. Really depends what he's "studying" - the morphology noticably deteriorates after 24 hours, and the MCV starts to rise significantly. Retic count is also measurably lower after a day or so. > Recruiting friends is not a good idea either because you have no idea of > what their HIV status is over a stranger. You must assume that all blood > is the same, i.e. potentially infectious, and take the proper precautions > when working with it. > > What are you studying anyway? Iron metabolism......... I'll get my coat :o) > Why do *I* have to type this? - The fact that obviously I do have to makes > me think that perhaps you might be better off typing "blood microscopy" into > Google images No. > What is the best way to procure test tubes of fresh blood for study? > The pathology department around here always has the AIDS blood. I need > healthier blood to study under microscope. If you are in the UK the human tissues act prohibits this without the specific consent of each donor. Not to worry, as I have learned in this NG that all the bad iron in the blood will kill U first. Well, gee I don't know where to begin... our micro department gets all the _sh.t_, I guess its only fair path/ histo get all the AIDS. Ever think about sticking yourself....or has that been mention already (don't know as I skipped over the other replies). BTW I hope you know about drying and staining smears before trying to look at them. OK, now I really ready to face a Friday & the weekend on 7-3. Ready to be of help when the floors call...., but they don't seem to call me much??? Too many heavens make us weak. - The Swimming Pool Q's > What is the best way to procure test tubes of fresh blood for study? > The pathology department around here always has the AIDS blood. I need > healthier blood to study under microscope. Yes I did in fact consider sticking myself. I would very much like it to be for a better reason than "the people on the newsgroup weren't experienced enough to help out." > Yes I did in fact consider sticking myself. > I would very much like it to be for a better reason than "the people > on the newsgroup weren't experienced enough to help out." If you're usng a newsgroup which gets less than a dozen hits a day as a major basis for your scientific research, then I'd seriously question your ability to do "scientific research". If you'd be a little less cryptic and a little more forthcoming and not be terrified of the term "AIDS" we might get somewhere. Shall we start again? > Shall we start again? Sure, I shall clarify. Blood banks are usually quite well-run establishments. They take reasonably good precautions to prevent diseases from being spread. With any luck, the person drawing blood will be an RN. The problem is that a blood bank is not a normal bank in the sense that one cannot make normal withdrawls. That is, it should be more accurately labeled a "blood donation center." What I need is a medical supply/research type establishment which will supply samples of blood specified by type, for the use of research. I am assuming it would be chilled in dry ice or some sort of coolant upon delivery. I have no problem supplying identification. Any help or reccomendations would be appreciated. Thank you! >> Shall we start again? > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Thank you! To take some of you points: From my personal experience a nurse would be the last person I'd want taking a blood sample. Generally it's not part of their job. When you want blood supplied by "type" - what exactly do you mean by "type" Blood group? In which case, which groups? ABO? ABO & Rh? What about Kell, Duffy, Kidd, Lewis, MNSs & all that lot - trying to get vast amounts of simularly phenotyed blood of that sort's not going to happen. Whole blood chilled in dry ice would be haemolysed and fit for the dustbin. Do you mean serum or plasma? There ARE medical research establishments that have supplies of fresh blood for research purposes - all the medical schools spring to mind. What do you mean by "I have no problem supplying identification." I'm not trying to be deliberately obstructive, but again from what you write you seem rather in the dark about the basics of blood science. What exactly is the object of your research - doesn't your sponsoring university have links with a medical school which could help you? I concur with everything Manky has said. Frozen whole blood would be worthless if you want to see cells. Frozen serum or plasma is another matter all together. Some RN's are pretty good with drawing blood. The American Red Cross employs RN's to draw at their donor centers. That being said, it is a special skill as they are using big honking needles (16 gauge) and this is different than drawing off a few tubes. I would also think you'd have to get permission from people to use their blood for whatever it is you're doing. The local medical school has protocols for all research. My husband participated in one of their protocols and donated blood for it. He had lots of papers to sign. How about running it by SOMEONE at your university that has a clue about running this type of research? http://www.chu-nancy.fr/cic/ANGLAIS/guidere.htm http://www.sfsu.edu/~protocol/human/HS-guide.pdf Found these by googling "research protocols" and "writing research protocols." Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology > There ARE medical research establishments that have supplies of fresh > blood for research purposes - all the medical schools spring to mind. > I'm not trying to be deliberately obstructive, but again from what you > write you seem rather in the dark about the basics of blood science. > What exactly is the object of your research - doesn't your sponsoring > university have links with a medical school which could help you? Our local blood center is not run by the Red Cross, and they hire phlebotomists to draw the units, but each phlebotomy team is overseen by an RN. I would trust trained phlebotomists before a nurse! Also it is possible to freeze blood cells. The military used to stock pile glycerated frozen RBC, and they need to be thawed carefully and then de-glycerated in a cell washer. The whole process takes about 24 hours, not too useful in an emergency. Once thawed the units had a very short shelf life, 2 days if I remember correctly.  SignatureJohn Gentile MS, M(ASCP) Laboratory Information Mgr. VA Medical Center Providence, RI > I concur with everything Manky has said. Frozen whole blood would be > worthless if you want to see cells. Frozen serum or plasma is another [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >> What exactly is the object of your research - doesn't your sponsoring >> university have links with a medical school which could help you? yjgent@cox.net > >> Shall we start again? > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > When you want blood supplied by "type" - what exactly do you mean by "type" Blood group. >In which case, which groups? I would be ordering more than one. > Whole blood chilled in dry ice would be haemolysed and fit for the dustbin. Would this happen if the blood was properly shielded by good glassware? > What do you mean by "I have no problem supplying identification." Simply that. > I'm not trying to be deliberately obstructive, but again from what you write > you seem rather in the dark about the basics of blood science. Thus, I am pursuing more detailed research. > What exactly is the object of your research The blood of the Homosapien. > doesn't your sponsoring > university have links with a medical school which could help you? One must be an educated consumer. Researchers must be even more educated to stay ahead of the competition. Thanks. Your extreme vagueness in answering our pointed questions leads me to believe you, unfortunately, are totally clueless about this topic. Do some more reading, find out what you want to study, go to an academic advisor, plan your research, and THEN come back and ask us stuff. Our expertise is the clinical laboratory - not research. We have studied clinical Hematology and some of us work in this department on a daily basis, so we DO know stuff about it. I have worked basic hematology years ago, studied it in my training, and passed that section of my registry examination. I believe Manky works in there daily. Do you think you can order some of this blood you want from some kind of supply house? It doesn't work like that.... Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology (now, but have done Hematology years ago) "x01001x" <xemail@softhome.net> wrote in message news:c3815a41-92c9-4bae-a4be-> Thus, I am pursuing more detailed research. > What exactly is the object of your research The blood of the Homosapien. > doesn't your sponsoring > university have links with a medical school which could help you? One must be an educated consumer. Researchers must be even more educated to stay ahead of the competition. > Your extreme vagueness in answering our pointed questions leads me to > believe you, unfortunately, are totally clueless about this topic. I think we've all been trolled here. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz (me thinks thats the line being rilled in, better spit that hook out) >> Your extreme vagueness in answering our pointed questions leads me to >> believe you, unfortunately, are totally clueless about this topic. > > I think we've all been trolled here. Just came back to see how the threads is going...no surprises for me. FYI, I am currently selling blood from my supply house...only $5.00 a vial (used). With good capitalism just about anything works. Hey Judy, such is why I thought of getting the samples from avians a.k.a. "birds" as in .............. well come on you know with the tinsy winsy gray stuff.... and yes, I have had my one week of sensitivity training. This is why I refuse to talk to high school classes. Before I criticize someone, I always walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when I criticize them, I'm a mile away and I have their shoes. > Your extreme vagueness in answering our pointed questions leads me to > believe you, unfortunately, are totally clueless about this topic. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Researchers must be even more educated to stay ahead of the > competition. Sounds like you're just having TOO much fun with this thread, kuhnfucius. Are you off tonight? On vacation? Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology > Just came back to see how the threads is going...no surprises for me. No working my butt off...unfortunately in the latter respects not. It occurred to me that I , in my enjoyment, might be mistaken for the mindless twerp who started the thread. Nope, too busy even to think about it. Anyone who's retirement is partially tied to powerball these days...knows this. Cabin fever this damn winter has no end (more snow coming Saturday night). Got to have some fun. Just finished three procedure manuals. Can't waite to get back outside and blow black powder all over the place. "The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit.'" -- W. Somerset Maugham > Sounds like you're just having TOO much fun with this thread, kuhnfucius. > Are you off tonight? On vacation? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >> Just came back to see how the threads is going...no surprises for me. On Mar 1, 1:48 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: > "x01001x" <xem...@softhome.net> wrote in message > Whole blood chilled in dry ice would be haemolysed and fit for the > dustbin. Would this happen if the blood was properly shielded by good glassware? _______________________________________________________________ This is the giveaway. You are asking postgraduate level questions and demonstrating kindergarten level knowledge. TROLL !!!!!!!! You know, I think you're right. No more for me on this thread. Troll is on their own now. BTW troll person, it's spelled "HEMATOLOGY" with an "A". That should have been our FIRST clue, Manky. Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology >> Whole blood chilled in dry ice would be haemolysed and fit for the >> dustbin. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > TROLL !!!!!!!! > You know, I think you're right. No more for me on this thread. Troll is on > their own now. > > BTW troll person, it's spelled "HEMATOLOGY" with an "A". That should have > been our FIRST clue, Manky. :o) Actually it's spelt "Haematology" - or at least it is over this side of the pond :o) You guys and your English spellings.....should it be "spelled"??? I just looked it up in dictionary.com and they do list "spelt" as a past tense of "spell." http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spelt Another English thing, I guess :-). I do enjoy these. I read English novels and mysteries ALL the time. :-) Never saw that form, though. Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology > Actually it's spelt "Haematology" - or at least it is over this side > of the pond :o) > You guys and your English spellings..... :o) Damn, my spell Quecker just stopped worker. >> You guys and your English spellings..... > > :o) "Kids, just because I don't care doesn't mean I'm not listening"--H. Simpson Troll, hell that's big foot! got to be "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."- Benjamin Franklin "HEMATOLOGY" now thems fight'n _word_....I mean, well I just mean .... "Is there insanity in your family?"--- Porky Pig " Well you goin' to pull them pistols, or are you goin' to whistlin' dixie?" --- C.E.,Outlaw Josey Wales > You know, I think you're right. No more for me on this thread. Troll is on > their own now. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> >> TROLL !!!!!!!! > "HEMATOLOGY" now thems fight'n _word_....I mean, well I just mean .... > "Is there insanity in your family?"--- Porky Pig I'm going to use this opportunity to put on the table that I have finished college, and do not deserve this crap. Thanks for nothing. Workin'in the fields till you get your back burned, Workin' 'neath the wheel till you get your facts learned, Baby, I got my facts learned real good right now, Many thanks to Bruce & the E Street Band, & 1 Marine div. College only taught me how to learn not the details. >> "HEMATOLOGY" now thems fight'n _word_....I mean, well I just mean .... >> "Is there insanity in your family?"--- Porky Pig [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks for nothing. > On Mar 1, 1:48 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > TROLL !!!!!!!! Maybe it' s Tony Robbins posting under an alias. My sister lent me one of his "self help" tapes an in it he says he likes to do"research" with some special type of microscope (phase contrast?)and he has seen red blood cells "turn into bacteria and germs". No doubt catalysed by the iron... > On Mar 1, 1:48 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > TROLL !!!!!!!! Well, I'm trying to answer your ignorance with a level of intelligence that would fit your kindergarten style question. The truth is my question could have been answered in one post. Who's the troll? I've read through a lot of your text and still have not received much useful information. >> On Mar 1, 1:48 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Who's the troll? I've read through a lot of your text and still have > not received much useful information. To take the specific example above, if blood was " properly shielded by good glassware" so that it wouldn't haemolyse, it wouldn't be chilled at all, so why bother chilling it in the first place? I claimed that proved you were a troll as it demonstrates: - ignorance of the nature of blood, - ignorance of laboratory processes - ignorance of thermodynamics As for not receiveing much useful information, until you can be a lot more specific in what you want to know, you're not going to receive anything. When you say that the object of your research is " The blood of the Homosapien", quite frankly I laugh at you. Oh - and post more frequently, would you. We might get wherever we're going a bit quicker. As this thread is quite long, I will ask a question that is open and can be ask as you were not specific in your post. In otherwords, I am looking outside the litter box. You want "healthy blood". Therefore everyone assumed you wanted human blood, although you did not specifically state so. You should do what I used to do and use goose blood. One goose can turn out a prodigous amount of blood .....at once or over time. They got neat RBCs. In addition, if you go to New Jersey you will find tons (metric or otherwise) of geese and tons of people who are glad to get rid of said geese. Let me tell you they are being assulted be geese sh.t down there. > What is the best way to procure test tubes of fresh blood for study? > The pathology department around here always has the AIDS blood. I need > healthier blood to study under microscope. > As this thread is quite long, I will ask a question that is open and can > be ask as you were not specific in your post. In otherwords, I am looking [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > or otherwise) of geese and tons of people who are glad to get rid of said > geese. Let me tell you they are being assulted be geese sh.t down there. Far be it from me to defend the goose but........ Avian red cells are quite unlike mammalian ones in that they are nucleated. Would this affect the research? Now , now details details! Some things they are supposed to find out for themselves. Actually B/C uses avian RBCs in their retic controls. If you have every seen avial RBC on a smear mixed with human cells they are strange (particular if you don't know what they are). >> As this thread is quite long, I will ask a question that is open and can >> be ask as you were not specific in your post. In otherwords, I am [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Avian red cells are quite unlike mammalian ones in that they are > nucleated. Would this affect the research? |
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