Medical Forum / General / Laboratory / August 2006
Steps in performing serum magnesium measurements
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Actor123 - 05 Jul 2006 01:29 GMT Hi all.
This is going to sounds like a weird inquiry, but here goes. I have been diagnosed with chronic magnesium deficiency. We have tried numerous therapies with varying success, but at this point it looks like it is going to be a lifelong struggle. I think its beatable, but its beatable in the way diabetes is, namely watching very closely my blood levels and making adjustments accordingly.
Unfortunately, the current laboratory testing system is not set up for someone like me. It typically takes several days to two weeks to obtain serum magensium results from a lab, and they won't send results directly to me, but through my doctor first, meaning that oftentimes by the time I find out my results, 3 weeks have passed and the opportunity for fine tune adjustment of dosages has passed. Its also not very cost effective, running $100 in lab fees for the test itself, not to mention office visits at the doctor.
As such, I was looking into the possibility of getting some lab equipment at my home and learning to perform the test myself. I know it sounds like an icky "experimenting on yourself" thing, but I view it much in the same way as diabetics view glucose testing - I just wish there was a home magnesium test like there is for glucose testing.
I'm pretty scientifically able, not afraid of jabbing myself with a needle, and financially well off enough to make the costs of obtaining such equipment not really an issue (not to mention in the long run it may actually save me money).
I've managed to piece together the basic steps involved in such testing, but am not too sure of the details. i was wondering if maybe someone familiar with the process might take me through it step by step. Basically, the steps as I understand them are: (1) collect the blood in a test tube (2) centrifuge the tube to separatre out the serum (3) extract(?) the serum from the test tube and put in another test tube with a pipette (4) add magnesium-specific reagant to the serum (5) place the serum in the analyzer (I've got a bead on a few different ones I can use)
Any help from a lab technician would be greatly appreciated.
John Gentile - 05 Jul 2006 02:50 GMT > Hi all. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Any help from a lab technician would be greatly appreciated. Well, what we do in our clinical lab is pretty much as you describe. We collect the blood in serum separator tubes (SST) and centrifuge to separate the serum. The SST allow us to test without pouring off the serum. Then we place it in our $75,000 analyzer and print out the results.
Of course that can only be accurate if the proper maintenance is performed, the instrument is properly quality controlled with know controls, calibrated to the exact specifications. We also run unknown samples from the College of American Pathology to prove that we are accurate. We also run patient samples on duplicate instruments to prove that there is little instrument to instrument variation.
But I'm thinking that you are probably looking for a much simpler instrument like a spectrophotometer. Then you should know that the instrument read out will only be a meaningless number that compares your sample to a blank and then you have to chart the reactions to compare your test value with the known values. However I know that there are moves to make more POCT tests available and there may be something out there for this - as long as you adhere to a strict protocol of QC, calibrations and maintenance.
Your best bet would be to have your doc write an order for you to receive the Mg levels from the lab directly. If the lab that draws the blood and runs it at the same place should be able to give it to you within a couple of hours.
 Signature John Gentile Editor Rhode Island Apple Group
JEDilworth - 05 Jul 2006 14:45 GMT Are you going to the lab to have your blood drawn, or are you having it drawn at your doc's office? In the latter case, they have to spine down the blood (hopefully in the office), package up the specimen, have the courier pick it up and take it to the lab, and then have the lab do the test. If you're in an extremely rural area, this can take a lot of time.
Find out where the lab is and go to their on-site drawing station, if possible. If it's a hospital lab, go right to the hospital and have your blood drawn there. Make SURE you have something from your doctor saying they can release the results directly to you. If you can provide them with a fax number so much the better, as they can fax you the results directly. They can place a "fax to" in the original order (our lab does this every day) and they can fax the results, upon release, directly to you and/or your doc's office. Of course, someone at the office has to pull stuff off of the fax machine regularly, then DO something with the results. That is probably where your problem is. If the lab give you a hassle about getting your own results, make sure you speak with the head of chemistry/lab manager, or their client service department (depending on how large the place is). Again, the lab cannot release to you on your say-so only; doc must approve of this arrangement in writing. It's all about liability here.
There is a handheld instrument called the I-Stat that they use in many ER's. I found one page that had their test menu, but magnesium was not one of the capabilities. I didn't have time to search further. If anyone knows if I-Stat can perform Magnesium testing, please post here :-).
I find it difficult to believe that it takes 2-3 weeks to obtain a result. This testing is done same day, unless your lab is so incredibly tiny that they're sending it out because you live in some extremely remote area or something. Your doctor's office must be dropping the ball as far as getting results back to you. They should be getting the results next day in most cases IF your magnesium is done on-site at your laboratory. Again, if your specimen is traveling to a large reference lab via the doc's office and a small intermediary lab, this can take time, but 2-3 weeks is ridiculous. No reference lab could take that long to do a magnesium - they'd be out of business!!! [I used to be a reference lab marketing rep twenty years ago.]
Sit down with your doc or a representative person at his/her office and explain the problem. Ask how you can expedite this. You can get a standing order written for your local laboratory that will last a year, so you can go into the lab [draw station] whenever you need to (or however often the order specifies) and get your blood drawn. Home magnesium testing is probably not the way to go, as it's pretty complicated.
Hope this helps.
Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology (but used to do chemistry and lab marketing)
As such, I was looking into the possibility of getting some lab
> equipment at my home and learning to perform the test myself. JEDilworth - 05 Jul 2006 14:48 GMT That was supposed to say "spin down the blood." Quick centrifugation for chemistry testing is essential. The doc's office should be separating the serum/plasma from the cells shortly after your blood is drawn (if you are indeed having the test drawn there). The draw station will be doing this automatically, so don't fret about that.
JED
> Are you going to the lab to have your blood drawn, or are you having it > drawn at your doc's office? In the latter case, they have to spine down > the blood (hopefully in the office), Manky Badger - 05 Jul 2006 23:22 GMT > Unfortunately, the current laboratory testing system is not set up for > someone like me. It typically takes several days to two weeks to > obtain serum magensium results from a lab, and they won't send results > directly to me, but through my doctor first, meaning that oftentimes by > the time I find out my results, 3 weeks have passed and the opportunity > for fine tune adjustment of dosages has passed. I have heard this SO many times - the doctors make out that the patient has got some absolutely amazingly rare condition and also pretend that the lab is SO hopelessly inefficient so patients come to think that every lab test takes weeks.
The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of tests are done and reported the same day, often within a couple of hours - serum magnesium levels certainly are. The cause for delay is that the doctor doesn't have a free appointment for the patient for several weeks, but rather than admitting it, the onus is passed on to some faceless laboratory. As for sending you the results directly, where we are in the UK, that's standard practice, but patients can phone for results.
 Signature Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Actor123 - 07 Jul 2006 00:40 GMT Thanks for all the responses so far. I do go directly to the lab for the draws, and they usually post the results online within 48 hours (viewable by the doc). The porblem with the 3 weeks isn't so much Dr's appointment lag time, as much as quantity of testing desired. While I'm trying different protocols to raise my levels I would really like a significant amount of testing to determine trends, etc. We're talking daily or even mutlti-daily testing for at least a little while. While I may be able to schedule a Dr's appointment for 3 days after my draw, I can't very well schedule a Dr's appointment every day.
The getting the results directly idea may be helpful, although I imagine I'd get a lot of resistance. I'd still have to wait the 48 hours until they are posted. There is also the additional issue that I'd like to get some samples done at nighttime since I'm of the belief that there are diurnal variations in the numbers that I'd like to be able to track, especially considering that my nighttime dose/digestion may vary from the daytime.
I'm an electrical engineer by trade, so I'm well familiar with the proper calibration and maintenance of sensitive electronic instruments. What I'm unfamiliar with is the hemotological aspect of this - the drawing of the blood, test tubes, reagant, etc. So these separator tubes, after they've been centrifuged are there like different compartments in the tube storing the different elements of the blood, or is it simply that the lightest material is at the top and the heaviest at the bottom, in which case how does this differ from a normal test tube?
> > Unfortunately, the current laboratory testing system is not set up for > > someone like me. It typically takes several days to two weeks to [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > As for sending you the results directly, where we are in the UK, that's > standard practice, but patients can phone for results. John Gentile - 07 Jul 2006 03:05 GMT > What I'm unfamiliar with is the hemotological aspect of this - the > drawing of the blood, test tubes, reagant, etc. So these separator [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > heaviest at the bottom, in which case how does this differ from a > normal test tube? Yes, they are special tubes with a gel in the bottom. When blood clots it separates and the gel is lighter than the red cells and clot so that when centrifuged it acts as a barrier between the clot and the serum. Of course a point of care test would be better if it used blood from a finger stick.
What instruments are you thinking about? I checked on the ISTAT and Mg is not offered as far as I can tell. I did a google search and could not find a specific instrument that can measure Mg in a POCT type tester.
 Signature John Gentile, MS M(ASCP) Laboratory Information Manager Providence, VAMC
JEDilworth - 07 Jul 2006 04:52 GMT You're talking a lot of blood if you plan on doing this at home multiple times a day. If you're using a spec, you probably can't use micro methods. You're going to be anemic in no time. Who's going to draw your blood???? Where are you going to centrifuge it? Lots of questions here. Perhaps you can find somewhere that's doing metabolic research.....
If you need multiple sticks, perhaps someone can insert some sort of line in your arm and sample off that. If you're paying cash, perhaps the lab can give you a price per magnesium if you pay up front. Depends on what lab you're working with. I'd have a talk with the chem supervisor or lab manager.
John, I also looked for magnesium with I-Stat and couldn't find that analyte. I don't think it's a test that ER's need right away, so it's not on their panel.
Good luck, actr123.
Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology
Robert - 07 Jul 2006 19:06 GMT > You're talking a lot of blood if you plan on doing this at home multiple > times a day. If you're using a spec, you probably can't use micro methods. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) > Microbiology There is really no need for a daily MG in a non-acute hospital setting. Like calcium the total mg level is effected by carrier proteins and by the action of PTH. Serum levels are a rough guide to total intracellular body stores. In certain circumstances ionized magnesium levels are more helpful than total mg.
The source or cause of the low mg levels should be looked into and if there is diarrhea and such then those causes should be treated. Hypocalcemia does not respond to calcium supplements without first correcting the low magnesium levels because of the PTH connection, low mgs suppress PTH secretion.
He needs to work with his doctor or find another rather than going at it on his own.
Actor123 - 09 Jul 2006 02:00 GMT Oh, I'm definitely not going at it on my own, but there are simply limitations in the amount of testing standard medical procedure will follow - not for safety or effacy issues, but for cost concerns. Oddly enough, offering to pay out of pocket for additional testing above and beyong that standard level of care simply doesn't work. Anyone who has been through a detailed medical procedure where they wish they could be tested more often knows what I mean. People who haven't encountered it simply don't realize it.
Take for example glucose testing. A friend who is a diebetic receives 50 test strips a month, the standard prescription. While that may be fine for someone who has his diebetes well under control, knows what he can and can't eat and when, it is more beneficial to have more testing done. Heck, as much as humanly possible would be the ideal, but of course on the other end there are practicality issues. But nevertheless, he is able to go in and on his own purchase a lot more test strips if he chooses, test it at night, test it every hour if he wants. Now that may be overkill, it may not, especially when he is still learning the effects of certain food combinations.
I'm basically looking for the same level of freedom in magnesium testing. I'd love it if there was a glucose-like magnesium tester, but I don't think there is. The next best thing unfortunately is a huge leap up, namely full fledged lab equipment. I don't recall the actual product names off the top of my head (I have my list at home), but they ranged from $500 to $2000, absent the accessories (tubes, pipettes, reagant, etc.). That is well within my budget for this endeavor. Once again, i know it may seem excessive to some, but at the risk of sounding egotistical I have a bit of money and I can't think of anything better to spend it on than my health. The symptoms of this deficiency have cost me far more than that anyway in lost productivity.
Serum Mg can be somewhat of a poor indicator as a screening test for magnesium deficiency, but it is actually quite good at measuring the effect of the absorption of various types of magnesium supplementation, which is mainly what I'd be using it for.
Thanks again for all the input. Its been most helpful. If anyone else has additional comments, keep them coming!
> > You're talking a lot of blood if you plan on doing this at home multiple > > times a day. If you're using a spec, you probably can't use micro methods. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > He needs to work with his doctor or find another rather than going at > it on his own. Actor123 - 09 Jul 2006 02:00 GMT Oh, I'm definitely not going at it on my own, but there are simply limitations in the amount of testing standard medical procedure will follow - not for safety or effacy issues, but for cost concerns. Oddly enough, offering to pay out of pocket for additional testing above and beyong that standard level of care simply doesn't work. Anyone who has been through a detailed medical procedure where they wish they could be tested more often knows what I mean. People who haven't encountered it simply don't realize it.
Take for example glucose testing. A friend who is a diebetic receives 50 test strips a month, the standard prescription. While that may be fine for someone who has his diebetes well under control, knows what he can and can't eat and when, it is more beneficial to have more testing done. Heck, as much as humanly possible would be the ideal, but of course on the other end there are practicality issues. But nevertheless, he is able to go in and on his own purchase a lot more test strips if he chooses, test it at night, test it every hour if he wants. Now that may be overkill, it may not, especially when he is still learning the effects of certain food combinations.
I'm basically looking for the same level of freedom in magnesium testing. I'd love it if there was a glucose-like magnesium tester, but I don't think there is. The next best thing unfortunately is a huge leap up, namely full fledged lab equipment. I don't recall the actual product names off the top of my head (I have my list at home), but they ranged from $500 to $2000, absent the accessories (tubes, pipettes, reagant, etc.). That is well within my budget for this endeavor. Once again, i know it may seem excessive to some, but at the risk of sounding egotistical I have a bit of money and I can't think of anything better to spend it on than my health. The symptoms of this deficiency have cost me far more than that anyway in lost productivity.
Serum Mg can be somewhat of a poor indicator as a screening test for magnesium deficiency, but it is actually quite good at measuring the effect of the absorption of various types of magnesium supplementation, which is mainly what I'd be using it for.
Thanks again for all the input. Its been most helpful. If anyone else has additional comments, keep them coming!
> > You're talking a lot of blood if you plan on doing this at home multiple > > times a day. If you're using a spec, you probably can't use micro methods. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > He needs to work with his doctor or find another rather than going at > it on his own. harrison6723@rogers.com - 18 Jul 2006 03:43 GMT <SNIP> You might want to look at the Kodak dt-60. It's a bench top, slide based (dry chemistry) analyser. You can probably get one fotr < $5k. I'm not sure if mg is one of the offered tests, but you could look into it. It uses small (~10 ul) sample sizes, so you could use cappillary (finger prick) samples that have been spun down, and I think the cost per slide is about $1
Arcie Mizelle - 18 Aug 2006 13:35 GMT The easiest way is to get an used spectrophotometer and the manual procedure for a magnesium assay. Serum magnesium is a relatively easy manual test. You will need some additional supplies in order to make reliable standards and you will need a source of deionized water. If you are still interested I can get you a copy of a procedure and a list of the reagents you will need to do the manual procedure. You might be able to find an older model Coleman spectrophotometer through a used medical supply company. (arciemizelle@frontiernet.net)
> Hi all. > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Any help from a lab technician would be greatly appreciated.
 Signature Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
|
|
|