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Medical Forum / General / Laboratory / August 2005

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CBC analyzers

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RATech - 07 May 2005 01:36 GMT
We are looking to replace our CellDyn 1700 in a lab doing 40-50 CBC'
daily. What analyzers do you recommend and why?  Any to completel
stay away from
Katra - 07 May 2005 07:18 GMT
> We are looking to replace our CellDyn 1700 in a lab doing 40-50 CBC's
> daily. What analyzers do you recommend and why?  Any to completely
> stay away from?

Do some websearches.
Look at both Coulter and Sysmex, then get the best you can afford...

Be sure to check the customer support contracts for any machine.
There is a lot to be considered. :-)

Personally, I LOVE the new Coulter LH series, but it's power is probably
way above your needs.
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see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

Manky Badger - 07 May 2005 20:51 GMT
>> We are looking to replace our CellDyn 1700 in a lab doing 40-50 CBC's
>> daily. What analyzers do you recommend and why?  Any to completely
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Personally, I LOVE the new Coulter LH series, but it's power is probably
> way above your needs.

Beware of Coulter reps !!!!

I know of a lab who bought Coulter because the chap in charge was told by
the Coulter rep that the "Coulter H1" or the "Coulter Sysmex" weren't the
machines for him.
He knew that "all blood counters are "Coulter Counters" and really had no
idea that there was more than one firm suppying blood counters.
Katra - 07 May 2005 21:41 GMT
> >> We are looking to replace our CellDyn 1700 in a lab doing 40-50 CBC's
> >> daily. What analyzers do you recommend and why?  Any to completely
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> He knew that "all blood counters are "Coulter Counters" and really had no
> idea that there was more than one firm suppying blood counters.

<lol>  I know what you mean..... ;-)
We did not get a coulter until just recently.
Looking around a bit, I can see that Sysmex has some
newer counters that look to be every bit as good as the newer
coulters.

My "new" boss was ex-military tho' so was hung up on Coulters.
He did not even give Sysmex a real hearing when we replaced
the Sysmex SE-9500. He said that the rep was out too often to repair the
machine. Thing is, the COUNTER part of the machine was fine! It was the
slide maker that we had so much trouble with.

But when I went to the training seminar for the Coulter LH-750, we were
not purchasing the slide maker part of it but I saw the students that
WERE! Looks like Coulter was having just as much trouble with the slide
maker/stainer as Sysmex had. <lol> Alarms were constantly going off in
the training lab for those things.

With that many moving parts, I guess there are bound to be problems?

I'll make my slides by hand thank you! ;-D
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Don - 11 Jun 2005 09:00 GMT
> WERE! Looks like Coulter was having just as much trouble with the slide
> maker/stainer as Sysmex had. <lol> Alarms were constantly going off in
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> I'll make my slides by hand thank you! ;-D

I AGREE, I AGREE! Our SP-100 slide stainer is a pain in the hind end! With
analyzers now, we do fewer manual diffs than before (with exceptions of
course). I'd much rather make my own slides and dippity-doo them in
Diff-Quick or better yet, bring back my Hematek stainer!!!

D
Katra - 11 Jun 2005 09:52 GMT
> > WERE! Looks like Coulter was having just as much trouble with the slide
> > maker/stainer as Sysmex had. <lol> Alarms were constantly going off in
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> analyzers now, we do fewer manual diffs than before (with exceptions of
> course).

Like morning run?
Since most in-patients are actually _sick_? <G>

> I'd much rather make my own slides and dippity-doo them in
> Diff-Quick or better yet, bring back my Hematek stainer!!!
>
> D

;-)
That's what we are doing now...
All slides made by hand, and a hematek stainer.
After the Sysmex slide maker fiasco, it was decided that it was really a
waste of time to fool around with slide automation. I did not fight it!

Don't you have some wrights stain or diff-quick for backup?
We use diff-quick for body fluids and for fecal leukocytes.

I was able to prove to the rest of the gang that staining stool slides
on the hematek was a very _bad_ idea. <lol>
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"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

nicstepro@aol.com - 25 May 2005 18:59 GMT
How has tech support been with your CellDyn?

We have 2- 4000s and would avoid them like the plague knowing what we
know now.

Today alone, we have spent since last evening cleaning cleaning per
tech support, today a rematch of cleaning, changing tubing, rinsing
syringes from 9 am to now 2 pm, and rerunning batches per Z. on tech
support for a problem that to my uninitiated mind - (reading all the
neutrophils as eos)- that seems to be a lazer problem?

I keep thinking of the MASH episode with Margaret Houghlihan and her
foot locker...

nicolette

> We are looking to replace our CellDyn 1700 in a lab doing 40-50 CBC's
> daily. What analyzers do you recommend and why?  Any to completely
> stay away from?
Katra - 25 May 2005 19:13 GMT
> How has tech support been with your CellDyn?
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> nicolette

Uh, yeah.

Do you have any kind of laser function test?
Coulter has a "latron" run that we do daily that checks laser function.

It's very effective.

Check your reagent changing records too and see if there was a change at
the same time the problem occured?
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Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

Manky Badger - 25 May 2005 21:45 GMT
> How has tech support been with your CellDyn?
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> support for a problem that to my uninitiated mind - (reading all the
> neutrophils as eos)- that seems to be a lazer problem?

Maybe that will improve following the launch of ther Sapphire ?

What "sort" of tech support do you get ? - we had the old Bayer H1s and no
matter what happened with it, they would INSIST on spending a couple of
hours talking it over with me over the phone. there might have been flames
coming out the back and they'd still ask me to try this and try that. We'd
spend so long fiddling that we never got same day service. Main reason we
left them. Went to Sysmex - marvellous service. I phone to tell them it's
broke - fix-it chap's here by mid day.
kuhnfucius - 17 Jul 2005 13:39 GMT
I note this post is dated now, but will add my many years experienced
opinion.  B/C instruments,over time,  tend to require "maintenance' (the
amount is relative based on what you are accustomn to and your work load0.
They can be a real pain, but they are also good work horses.  Their
maintenance and help line are as ebayers might say is A+++.   B/C does not
seem to respond to software concerns.   I will note two coulter instruments
that I think were "flawed" (of cource B/C will not admit this, but does
anyone in the industry?):  LH Slide stainer, and although it is a big seller
the ACTdiff.  The latter is actually a reliable instrument, but lacks a true
"A" drive and instead has a "reagent card".  Once agian, apparently weak on
software.  The lack of an "A" means you can not deselect (not meaning
"delete") individual control runs for IQAP or for archiving data, so you are
stuck with manual paper recording.  BC's first slide stainer is simply  the
HMS Titanic in miniture.  If you are a rich instition with an abundance of
high quality staffing for a high complexity instrument you might pretend to
be thrilled with BC's slide stainer--- to cover up the fact that some slicky
salesman pulled a quicky on your managements teams collective wisdom.
"Management team wisdom" can be big weakest in health care institutions as
they rarely seem to listen to those that actually understand the technology.
As for "understand the technology" try getting a striaght answer from an
instrument manufacture on how many cells the instrument actually analyses to
do an automated differential (say based on a given WBC count).  If you get
an answer, do the dilution math and time of analyzing-- see if it comes
anywhere close to the claims.  If you have read this far, oh my are you hard
you for entertainment!!

> We are looking to replace our CellDyn 1700 in a lab doing 40-50 CBC'
> daily. What analyzers do you recommend and why?  Any to completel
> stay away from
mpmorin - 13 Aug 2005 14:14 GMT
Bayer ADVIA120 - great diffs!  A little finicky sometimes.

I used to use Gen*S - very simple especially all the maintenance!

> We are looking to replace our CellDyn 1700 in a lab doing 40-50 CBC's
> daily. What analyzers do you recommend and why?  Any to completely
> stay away from?
 
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