Medical Forum / General / Laboratory / April 2005
Advice on career choice in clinical laboratory science?
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Suestonto@yahoo.com.tw - 25 Jan 2005 20:25 GMT I have graduated from university with a degree of Biological Science. I am considering a university based clinical laboratory science program in Loma Linda University, California. The program is two years. I will have to endure the financial burden. I can't take the short term one year program because I didn't take the prerequisites classes in the college. If I do take these classes now, it will still take two years to complete. Do you think it is worth it to spend such an effort to become a medical technologist?
I have heard many users from the field of medical technology complaining about the decline in salary. They said the field is pretty much dead because anyone with simple training can handle the ordinary routine laboratory works. Some said that computer will eventually put medical technologists out of work. I am worry if I do get a CLS degree, it will be a waste of time and money because I won't get a higher salary or a better job as the result.
Is CLS a pretty much dead end career with no opportunity of getting a higher position? Is it better to persuade a master or a PHD degree and work in industry than medical community?
Some of the posters from this forum seem to portrait CLS or Med Tech field as a collapsing or a declining field. These posts were dated in 1997 to 1999. It maybe true in 1998, but how is the field in 2005? I have heard some posters mentioned that after many CLS schools closed from 1996 to 2000, there is a shortage of medical technologists. Does the shortage actually make medical technologists more appreciated? I think what I want to know is. Is getting into CLS worth my effort?
Robert - 25 Jan 2005 21:23 GMT I think you have to want to become a CLS first and not the other way around. If you like performing lab testing in a medical field then that is the place for you. If you see CLS as only in terms of salary or gaining in position then I don't think the field is for you. I think you answered your own question when you asked is it worth all the effort. It wasn't an effort but a goal in my case and then you put up with all the bad stuff. I advise you not to go into the field and seek your fortune elsewhere with advanced degrees. The state is making it easier to pass the state exam. The exam itself is not easier but the cut-off is much more relaxed now with many more people entering California as CLS.
> I have graduated from university with a degree of Biological Science. > I am considering a university based clinical laboratory science program [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > the shortage actually make medical technologists more appreciated? > I think what I want to know is. Is getting into CLS worth my effort? mpmorin - 04 Apr 2005 22:05 GMT FYI
there will always be hospitals(labs will be around until well after you die) and there will always be pharmaceutical companies and industrial companies that require MT education. Don't forget the biggest one: Crime Labs. Better yet: genetics. These are all based on medical technologist education.
I always watch CSI on TV if I can. they're always doing MT stuff.
>I have graduated from university with a degree of Biological Science. > I am considering a university based clinical laboratory science program [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > the shortage actually make medical technologists more appreciated? > I think what I want to know is. Is getting into CLS worth my effort? JEDilworth - 09 Apr 2005 19:20 GMT The average age of a typical MT in the US is around 50. Do the math - when everyone begins retiring in 10-15 years, there will NOT be many replacements. When supply goes down, salary goes up. If you get in the field now, you are the management of the future. My manager just turned 60 years old. The Ph.D's in microbiology that I've worked with over the years are all in their mid to late 60's now. Just think of all the knowledge that's going to soon be walking out the door!
Molecular testing is wide open right now, as many people are not trained in this. The direction of laboratories is heading that way. Get involved in the molecular testing field and you will be in demand.
When the baby boomers hit 65-70 years of age, the volume of lab testing is going to skyrocket. They are going to need people to handle all of that.
Nothing says you have to stay in California when you're finished...
Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology 31 years
> Better yet: genetics. These are all based on medical technologist > education. Mike Collins - 09 Apr 2005 20:38 GMT > The average age of a typical MT in the US is around 50. Do the math - > when everyone begins retiring in 10-15 years, there will NOT be many [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) > Microbiology 31 years But are they going to retire. Our minimum retirement age is going up from 60 to 65. I don't intend to retire at 65 unless I'm too ill to work.
 Signature Mike Collins UK Mike&heather-at-oakwellmount-dot-freeserve-dot-co-dot-uk
JEDilworth - 10 Apr 2005 05:01 GMT I would be willing to hazard a guess and say, yes, people will retire. Every lab I've worked in have a mostly female staff. If their husbands retire, there's a good probability that they will also.
I don't get full social security until age 67 because of the year I was born. Bush & Co. are trying to change it for the younger folks and raise it even higher. I'm 56 now so I think I'm safe (but you never know). I still think that enough techs will retire to have plenty of openings for the few kids that are going into the field. Enrollments in MT schools now are back to what they were in the 1950's, i.e. low. Many schools went out of business in the 80's due to the change in reimbursements from Medicare. This caused labs to become cost centers instead of revenue centers, and hospitals looked to cut anything that didn't generate revenue.
I think the big problem is that, to become an MT, the prerequisites include having a B.S. in either Biology or Chemistry. This entails a heavy science curriculum, including organic chemistry. Kids today tend to want it easy and don't want to take this difficult of an undergraduate curriculum without some guarantee of decent wages. I don't blame them, but I do see light at the end of the tunnel.
My geographical area used to have 5-6 MT schools at local hospitals in the 70's when I trained. Each of these schools cranked out anywhere from 4-12 students per year. I would venture to say that many of those students, like myself, stayed in the area and are still working. There is now only ONE hospital based school (the one where I currently work) plus one university based program. Our school only takes four students per year. I'm not sure how many the local university takes. We also had an MLT school affiliated with our hospital (a two year technician program). That closed its doors two years ago. They replaced it with [can you believe this] a massage therapy program. What were they thinking????
This is why there will be shortages in the USA for the forseeable future. Everything here depends upon insurance/Medicare/Medicaid [welfare] reimbursements, and all the insurance companies and the government are constantly trying to find ways to cut reimbursements. This causes large labs to get larger, and their smaller counterparts to become smaller. We currently do the work for four hospital microbiology labs - our own plus three others which no longer have microbiology onsite because it was too expensive to keep running small departments. Through a partnering of the hospitals, some of their techs now work at our lab. Specimens are all shipped to us via numerous courier runs in our metro area multiple times a day. Hospitals here are part of "systems" now in larger cities. Freestanding hospitals without system affiliation are getting harder to find locally. Many rural hospitals are now affiliated with either our system or our competitor's (yes, there's competition for patients here, too). The hospital I used to work for closed its doors in 1996 due to reduced reimbursements and the fact that we housed mostly Medicare and Medicaid patients and had very few regular medical insurance patients. The costs were too high for the hospital to stay open. This happened in just a twenty year period. I trained there in the early 70's, when Medicare reimbursements were paid via fee-for-service and not DRG (diagnosis-related-group; you get paid a lump sum per diagnosis, not by the test). The hospital had 350 beds then, added a huge wing, and was going fine until 1984, when the bottom fell out, DRG's were instituted, and the hospital slowly died over a twelve year period.
A local independent lab (not hospital affiliated) kept its wages so low that they finally couldn't attract anyone for interviews. Techs were leaving when hospitals advertised openings because the wages were much higher. They finally threw in the towel in January and raised their techs' wages by $7/hour! That's an astronomical wage increase. That's why I believe that wages must increase eventually when the supply dwindles because if wages don't increase, there really will be no one to do the work.
Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology
> But are they going to retire. Our minimum retirement age is going up from 60 > to 65. I don't intend to retire at 65 unless I'm too ill to work. Manky Badger - 10 Apr 2005 10:46 GMT > This is why there will be shortages in the USA for the forseeable > future.
> A local independent lab (not hospital affiliated) kept its wages so low > that they finally couldn't attract anyone for interviews. Techs were [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > dwindles because if wages don't increase, there really will be no one to > do the work.
>> But are they going to retire. Our minimum retirement age is going up > from 60 >> to 65. I don't intend to retire at 65 unless I'm too ill to work. This is the difference between the US & the UK. Over here in the UK we have this daft mindset that leaves us carrying on working for peanuts.
I honestly believe that were UK path lab wages reduced to zero, a sizeable proportion of lab people would find some other form of income, but still keep doing the blood tests on a voluntary basis. Am I wrong ? How many unpaid hours do YOU work each week ?
Mike Collins - 10 Apr 2005 19:47 GMT > This is the difference between the US & the UK. > Over here in the UK we have this daft mindset that leaves us [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Am I wrong ? > How many unpaid hours do YOU work each week ? Quite a few. I bet you do too. However I'm living in hospital accomodation at the moment and it's easy to get back to the lab, As for retiring if we are paid peanuts then we retire on half a peanut. I enjoy my work and don't want to give it up.
 Signature Mike Collins UK Mike&heather-at-oakwellmount-dot-freeserve-dot-co-dot-uk
Manky Badger - 10 Apr 2005 23:07 GMT >> This is the difference between the US & the UK. >> Over here in the UK we have this daft mindset that leaves us [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Quite a few. I bet you do too. Oh yes - I'm in an hour early every day. I wonder if our more captialistic cousins do ?
>However I'm living in hospital accomodation > at the moment and it's easy to get back to the lab, As for retiring if we > are paid peanuts then we retire on half a peanut. > I enjoy my work and don't want to give it up. I for one would go tomorrow if I could :o)
John Gentile - 11 Apr 2005 00:37 GMT > I honestly believe that were UK path lab wages reduced to zero, a sizeable > proportion of lab people would find some other form of income, but still > keep doing the blood tests on a voluntary basis. > Am I wrong ? > How many unpaid hours do YOU work each week ? I also see a mindset that no matter how short staffed we are the work gets done - usually by unpaid hours. As long as we keep performing the impossible hospital admin will never believe us about shortages.
 Signature John Gentile Editor, Rhode Island Apple Group yjgent@cox.net RIAG Web page: www.wbwip.com/riag/ "I never make mistakes, I only have unexpected learning opportunities!"
furtig - 15 Apr 2005 05:15 GMT Bingo (I agree). No respect and no bucks. For lab week, I want a cake in the shape of the H.M.S. Titanic. (I think we are getting "Team Work" buttons and we have been ask to bake our own cake.) You want to sign on for the maiden cruise take your own life boat. Just like the army you can plan to be a team of one. Compared to Nursing. Admins have no problem paying for traveling temps, or paying OT in nursing (but not for MTs). Part of the problem is that inspectors can not, or do not directly site for staffing. As a fellow peer inspector told me: "Don't bitch to me about staffing I have just as bad...live with it". Quality and quantity of staffing has hit bottom. We had two new techs quit when they realized how bad 11-7 was, and that it would probably be 10 years + before they got to day light. ?Technology is dominated by those who manage what they do not understand. ------------------------ ?"Vegetarian -- that's an old Native American word meaning lousy hunter." ---attributed to Andy Rooney
> > I honestly believe that were UK path lab wages reduced to zero, a sizeable > > proportion of lab people would find some other form of income, but still [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > done - usually by unpaid hours. As long as we keep performing the impossible > hospital admin will never believe us about shortages. Katra - 20 Apr 2005 07:30 GMT > Bingo (I agree). No respect and no bucks. For lab week, I want a cake in > the shape of the H.M.S. Titanic. (I think we are getting "Team Work" buttons [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > ?"Vegetarian -- that's an old Native American word meaning lousy > hunter." ---attributed to Andy Rooney Damn I'm glad I joined this group tonight... ;-) I feel better now.
I guess misery loves company??? <lol>
K. BS MT (ASCP) Hematology section supervisor for 12+ years...
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Sprout the MungBean to reply
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JEDilworth - 15 Apr 2005 20:01 GMT I am very lucky in that I don't work any unpaid hours, and I really don't know anyone at our lab that works off the clock. I can't speak for management, but the techs surely don't. How does that occur? I've worked at two other hospitals and a private lab over the years, and was never asked to work off the clock. Isn't that technically illegal? Walmart got in big trouble for that recently.
We just got a bonus, also (third or fourth in 5 years - never had that at former employers). Sounds as if we're the exception. However, the workload is amazingly heavy, and we do work short some evenings. One of our second shift techs is due to have her baby any minute, and I don't think they're going to cover her hours with anything other than spotty contingent hours for three months. That coupled with vacations, plus a part time 24 hour/week position that is still unfilled leaves us working pretty short. Again, they'd rather pay the overtime than the benefits. They're paying out OT at time and a half, even! I just don't understand. We do not get the luxury of taking a month off at a time over here, either. A week at a time is the norm, although our place grants two weeks sometimes. Because most of the techs have worked here forever they have tons of vacation time to use up, and everyone just cannot take it at the same time, so it must be rotated.
The hospital across the street is unionized, meaning the nurses, mostly (union is UAW - yes, the United Auto Workers are branching out into health care. We're also a big union city with lots of auto workers). There was a push to unionize the lab three years ago but the vote was about 60+ against/20+ for, and it hasn't been mentioned again. Administration made it very clear that if the union were voted in, schedules would have to be followed to the letter with no trades or negotiations. This just wouldn't work with kids and doc's appointments, etc., as we're mostly female, and our place is really flexible in crises, so I think that's the main reason it was defeated. Most of the people pro-union were male and on the day shift in chemistry/hematology. However, I will admit we do benefit from a lot of their negotiations.
I can't imagine a hospital over here providing housing. That is pretty much unheard of in the US.
The hospital administrators won't wake up until everyone starts to retire. Yes, I believe that will really happen. I don't see people working into their 70's here, although we may have to in the long run. I have a bunch of high school friends who got their teaching degrees and just retired on full pensions (30 years and out) and they're only 55. They have a whole life ahead of them. They can either sit back and relax or start another career. I feel like I'm one of the few that is still working, although I know that's not the case. There is a lot of peer pressure over here to retire early or by 65. People have been working their butts off their whole lives and they've had it.
Oh well, it's my day off, so I'm going to stop typing and try to enjoy what's left of it.
Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology
> > I also see a mindset that no matter how short staffed we are the work gets
> done - usually by unpaid hours. As long as we keep performing the impossible > hospital admin will never believe us about shortages. Shylirin - 16 Apr 2005 02:56 GMT I agree with what Judy has laid out here. It is against policy as well as illegal for us to work off the clock. In our case, not only the extremely heavy workload but also the horrible benefits package causes a large amount of turnover. Since we are a medium sized lab anyway, even one person gone on vacation causes staffing snafus that just have to be worked through. Once I had to work every single day for 32 days, weekends included. I'm not complaining, I would have done the work regardless. It just hit home to hear someone else voicing the same issues. I have almost three solid months of vacation time built up, and it was 5 years before I was able to take a full week of time off. It's just that busy, and the work somehow has to be done regardless of the staffing situation. A unionization movement also failed here, mostly just because no one wanted to bother with all of the extra regulations from the union. I understand your feeling that everyone else gets to retire while you keep plugging away... I think the same thing every so often.
Shylirin
> I am very lucky in that I don't work any unpaid hours, and I really > don't know anyone at our lab that works off the clock. I can't speak for [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > impossible > > hospital admin will never believe us about shortages. Katra - 20 Apr 2005 07:43 GMT > I agree with what Judy has laid out here. It is against policy as well as > illegal for us to work off the clock. In our case, not only the extremely [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Shylirin We have great benefits! That's one of the things that keeps me here.
Want to work in Texas? <lol>
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"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain
Mike Collins - 17 Apr 2005 20:13 GMT > I am very lucky in that I don't work any unpaid hours, and I really > don't know anyone at our lab that works off the clock. I can't speak [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] >> done - usually by unpaid hours. As long as we keep performing the >> impossible hospital admin will never believe us about shortages. Judy I think you've got the wrong idea about this extra hours business. Nobody's asked to work unpaid overtime but often they just pitch in and help when it gets busy. As a chief I'm not paid overtime and I'm not allowed to work shifts. I often do paperwork after the working day because there are no interruptions. We offer extra overtime when needed but it's usually difficult to get many volunteers. The evening and night shift have a hard time because more than half of our work comes from GPs and doesn't arrive until late afternoon. Last week one of our night shift staff analysed more than 1000 samples between 9pm and 8am. A new record. Most of these were GP samples. Shift staff in UK labs almost always work in the day as well. There are very few who work nights only.
I live in hospital accomodation because I moved to a new job and haven't bought a house in the area yet. It's not cheap, I pay 300 pounds per month (over 550 dollars for one room and a shared kitchen) but it's convenient because it's on the hospital site. I should write more but I've got to drive 170 miles to work.
 Signature Mike Collins UK Mike&heather-at-oakwellmount-dot-freeserve-dot-co-dot-uk
Katra - 20 Apr 2005 06:59 GMT > > I am very lucky in that I don't work any unpaid hours, and I really > > don't know anyone at our lab that works off the clock. I can't speak [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > because it's on the hospital site. > I should write more but I've got to drive 170 miles to work. Keerist... and our people here bitch over our workload. ;-)
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"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain
Katra - 20 Apr 2005 07:42 GMT > I am very lucky in that I don't work any unpaid hours, and I really > don't know anyone at our lab that works off the clock. I can't speak for [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > have tons of vacation time to use up, and everyone just cannot take it > at the same time, so it must be rotated. What's a vacation? I have to wheedle just to get a 3 day weekend!!!
I end up donating excess vacation time to team members in trouble rather than see it go to waste. We are only allowed to accumulate 350 hours and I get 10 hours per pay period now becuase I've been there so long!
18 years... <sigh> Hard to believe sometimes.
> The hospital across the street is unionized, meaning the nurses, mostly > (union is UAW - yes, the United Auto Workers are branching out into > health care. We're also a big union city with lots of auto workers). > There was a push to unionize the lab three years ago but the vote was > about 60+ against/20+ for, and it hasn't been mentioned again. Heh. Even talk of unionizing would get you canned! They'd hire agency techs if they had to before they would allow that!
> Administration made it very clear that if the union were voted in, > schedules would have to be followed to the letter with no trades or [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > people pro-union were male and on the day shift in chemistry/hematology. > However, I will admit we do benefit from a lot of their negotiations. Talk is cheap.
Hours are tight due to being short handed as the long dreaded tech shortage is finally beginning to affect us. We are fortunate to have a good loyal team, most of who have been there for over 10 years, so we try to take care of each other in a crisis.
It would not be a problem if it were not for the restrictions on overtime... All of us are willing to work it if it was allowed just to cover for each other in times of need, or even for vacations!
That restriction tho' just makes things so much more difficult.
And it's totally unrealistic. I've thought about going directly to the hospital admin. but that would probably be professional suicide.
> I can't imagine a hospital over here providing housing. That is pretty > much unheard of in the US. Unless you are an MD. ;-) One that brings in exceptionally high revenue.
> The hospital administrators won't wake up until everyone starts to > retire. Yes, I believe that will really happen. I don't see people > working into their 70's here, although we may have to in the long run. Not a chance in hell. We are allowed to retire at 60 but most folks hang in until 65 for increased benefits.
That is what IRA's are for.
> I have a bunch of high school friends who got their teaching degrees and > just retired on full pensions (30 years and out) and they're only 55. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Oh well, it's my day off, so I'm going to stop typing and try to enjoy > what's left of it. Go fishing...
> Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) > Microbiology Cheers!
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Sprout the MungBean to reply
"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain
Katra - 20 Apr 2005 07:27 GMT > > I honestly believe that were UK path lab wages reduced to zero, a sizeable > > proportion of lab people would find some other form of income, but still [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > done - usually by unpaid hours. As long as we keep performing the impossible > hospital admin will never believe us about shortages. That's why you need to quit working unpaid hours... Don't you have "on call" techs?
If there is a serious problem, we will call our manager and get permission to put in justified overtime.
You just stated the obvious. They will never see it if you keep doing it.
Loyalty is one thing, (me and my team members have it in spades) but only you can allow yourself to be taken advantage of, while the BOD makes 4 times the amount of money that you do, off the sweat off your backs!!!!!!
Granted, I won't walk out in the middle of a stat crossmatch for someone that is bleeding to death, but I won't clock out either!
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Sprout the MungBean to reply
"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell--you see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain
Manky Badger - 20 Apr 2005 20:20 GMT > In article <BE7F30F2.18B20%yjgent@cox.net>,
> Granted, I won't walk out in the middle of a stat crossmatch for someone > that is bleeding to death, but I won't clock out either! And therin lies the rub !!!!
I am paid until 5.12pm. If whatever I am doing takes me until 5.14pm or 5.16pm (or more likely 6pm) there is no "clock" to record my extra hours.
(OK, so I try to make sure that people get back any extra hours they work, but what with the extra leave from A4C and extended on call recovery & rest periods, we need between 20-25% of the workforce out of the lab to use up the leave/recovery/rest time.)
JEDilworth - 21 Apr 2005 05:46 GMT So what you're saying is that you're salaried, not hourly? You get the same amount of pay in every check, regardless of hours worked? That could only happen here under a "salaried" scenario. Most management people are salaried, and techs are hourly. We get paid from when we punch in until when we punch out. If it gets busy right before we're ready to leave (like it did a couple of times within the last month where a spinal fluid was brought in JUST when we were all walking out the door) we stay and finish it, and there's never any problem with something like that. Various places obviously have rules about OT (how much is allowed and when, etc.), but it's illegal here to be an hourly employee and work "off the clock." As I mentioned previously, Walmart got in BIG trouble recently for this, and owe millions in back wages.
We clock in and out via the TACS system, where we use the telephone in the department to punch in our social security number and a code signifying in and out. There are other codes to record vacation, etc. The supervisors have computer access to all our hours, and can make reports to track OT, etc. with the system.
Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology
> I am paid until 5.12pm. If whatever I am doing takes me until 5.14pm or > 5.16pm (or more likely 6pm) there is no "clock" to record my extra hours. Manky Badger - 21 Apr 2005 18:40 GMT > So what you're saying is that you're salaried, not hourly? You get the > same amount of pay in every check, regardless of hours worked? That > could only happen here under a "salaried" scenario. I think it's fair to say that most UK labs work this way.
Annie - 21 Apr 2005 19:13 GMT > > So what you're saying is that you're salaried, not hourly? You get the > > same amount of pay in every check, regardless of hours worked? That > > could only happen here under a "salaried" scenario. > > I think it's fair to say that most UK labs work this way. I've got a job interview tomorrow for a Quality System Manager's post. Never thought I'd leave lab work - but it was too good an opportunity to miss.
Annie :)
Manky Badger - 21 Apr 2005 20:49 GMT >> > So what you're saying is that you're salaried, not hourly? You get the >> > same amount of pay in every check, regardless of hours worked? That [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Never > thought I'd leave lab work - but it was too good an opportunity to miss. Good luck !!
I tried for a Head BMS job a coule of weeks ago and was told I'm too young !!
Katra - 22 Apr 2005 06:44 GMT > > > So what you're saying is that you're salaried, not hourly? You get the > > > same amount of pay in every check, regardless of hours worked? That [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Annie :) Good luck! :-) If I were to leave the lab, I'd have to find something that paid at least $20.00 per hour or more....... That's what I'm making now, plus a bit more for shift differential.
Again, anyone want to come to work in the Central Texas area? We need people pretty bad, and it's a nice area to live.
Gas is only $2.15 per gallon here, at least so far.
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"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain
Katra - 21 Apr 2005 06:14 GMT > > In article <BE7F30F2.18B20%yjgent@cox.net>, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I am paid until 5.12pm. If whatever I am doing takes me until 5.14pm or > 5.16pm (or more likely 6pm) there is no "clock" to record my extra hours. Ew! That's against the law in this state, unless you are a supervisor on "Salary". We have a couple of those and it really sux. ;-P
> (OK, so I try to make sure that people get back any extra hours they work, > but what with the extra leave from A4C and extended on call recovery & rest > periods, we need between 20-25% of the workforce out of the lab to use up > the leave/recovery/rest time.) Comp. time? ;-) Laugh a minute ain't it? (not)
So, are you short handed due to a lack of available new tech's like we are, or are you short because they are too cheap to give you the FTE's you need?
Just curious.
If I had it to do all over again, I'd go into radiology and specialize in CT and/or MRI, or possibly ultra-sound. I've heard that pays a lot better.
And it looks equally as interesting......
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Sprout the MungBean to reply
"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain
JEDilworth - 21 Apr 2005 16:22 GMT I have a nephew who started in Radiology and now is working as an assistant to the cardiac cath docs. Believe me, from what I've heard about Radiology, it's no walk in the park, and my hourly wage was always more than he was making. His back is permanently screwed up from all the lifting. You also have to pay your dues in "regular" radiology before you move up into the other areas. It's lots of hard difficult work and the docs are always bitching because you're taking too long. Many days it's just bodies piled up out in the hall waiting to be scanned (he works at a busy medical school hospital).
Not for me - I'll take my specimens in cups any day!
Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology
> If I had it to do all over again, I'd go into radiology and specialize > in CT and/or MRI, or possibly ultra-sound. I've heard that pays a lot > better. Manky Badger - 21 Apr 2005 18:39 GMT >> > In article <BE7F30F2.18B20%yjgent@cox.net>, >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Ew! That's against the law in this state, unless you are a supervisor on > "Salary". We have a couple of those and it really sux. ;-P I don't think there's a lab in the UK that has a "clock" - we're all salaried.
>> (OK, so I try to make sure that people get back any extra hours they >> work, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Just curious. I can't say it's because management won't employ staff - most UK labs have vacancies. We just seem (nationally) unable to recruit & retain. The last time we advertised there wasn't a single (suitable) applicant who was a UK national.
> If I had it to do all over again, I'd go into radiology and specialize > in CT and/or MRI, or possibly ultra-sound. I've heard that pays a lot > better. > > And it looks equally as interesting...... I'd do banking !
JEDilworth - 21 Apr 2005 23:51 GMT The reason you can't get anyone interested in these jobs is that the pay sucks for how many hours you're putting in. I've always been paid an hourly wage and I've been in the biz 31 years now. There was a brief movement in Congress to change the overtime rules and I think it's dead for now, as the law that was proposed would prevent OT pay for nursing personnel. There's a huge shortage of nurses now, and hospitals couldn't get anyone to cover nursing shifts without overtime. This law would have applied to any technical people (i.e. lab/radiology) also. We can only cross our fingers that the Repubs don't bring it up again.
Wages are going up here due to shortages in many parts of the country. I daresay that there will be supply and demand pressure in the UK also EVENTUALLY to increase wages (probably in about 25 years when everyone on this list is long retired).
Is the movement in the UK to outsource lab work to India affecting you directly? What's happening here is that smaller labs are becoming satellites of larger "reference" labs in hospital "systems" to cut down costs. I'm just guessing here, but I see your reference labs becoming India! Your labs will be turned into STAT labs, and expensive testing will be outsourced to the highest bidder.
That could help discourage young kids from going into lab work, also. If the "good stuff" is going somewhere else, why go through all those science courses just to do 80,000,000 urinalyses and sets of lytes in your lifetime?
If I had it to do over again, I'd become an accountant. CPA's are in HIGH demand in the US since the Enron debacle, and they pretty much can pick and choose where they want to work. My daughter works in a bank and the pay, at least at the lower end, is garbage. I have no idea what people with big finance MBA's make, however.
Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology
> I don't think there's a lab in the UK that has a "clock" - we're all > salaried. Katra - 22 Apr 2005 06:45 GMT > The reason you can't get anyone interested in these jobs is that the pay > sucks for how many hours you're putting in. I've always been paid an [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) > Microbiology We need another good Micro tech. If you are interesting in living in paradise, (Texas hill country), send me an e-mail and I'll pass you on to my boss. ;-)
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slenon - 22 Apr 2005 13:22 GMT >If I had it to do over again, I'd become an accountant. >Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) If I had the opportunity to talk to my younger self, I'd tell him to stay in the military, to take the music scholarship I turned down, to go into broadcast journalism, or any of a dozen other options that I ignored or discarded.
Other than being out of the loop when I'm the patient, I don't miss it. I dislike the direction of heatlthcare today, with cost more important to the MBA mangagers than quality; continual, intentional understaffing, and pharmaceutical companies knowingly pushing antibiotics that cause class wide resistance.
On good days I go fishing. On days when I hurt too much I don't. But I don't miss doing more and more testing in less and less time for income that doesn't keep up with inflation and ever decreasing benefits. And I don't miss covering for co-workers with incomplete work ethics, being penalize with overtime for being male, or losing out on the best vacation time for a fishing trip because the mothers with school age kids are deemed to need it more than I.
 Signature Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 When the dawn came up like thunder slenon@tampabay.rr.com http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm
Katra - 22 Apr 2005 19:13 GMT > >If I had it to do over again, I'd become an accountant. > >Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > fishing trip because the mothers with school age kids are deemed to need it > more than I. Beautiful post! I think I may share this one with our boss... It just shows that the sinking moral in our lab is a world wide symptom. ;-)
They've been cutting OUR benefits as well due to decreased revenues, but still increasing benefits for nursing staff.
Guess our contribution to the "team" is less valuable than theirs?
<sigh>
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Katra - 22 Apr 2005 06:41 GMT > >> > In article <BE7F30F2.18B20%yjgent@cox.net>, > >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I don't think there's a lab in the UK that has a "clock" - we're all > salaried. Do you think that is due to socialized medicine? We don't have that here... yet. ;-) I'm sure it will come eventually.
> > So, are you short handed due to a lack of available new tech's like we > > are, or are you short because they are too cheap to give you the FTE's [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > The last time we advertised there wasn't a single (suitable) applicant who > was a UK national. I think the shortage is world wide by now! It's just beginning to really hit here. Most of the training programs have shut down due to a lack of students. Even our local one only graduates less than 10 per year when it used to do at least 30!
I'm beginning to wonder what is going to happen. Giant automated labs run by just a few people? Coulter has a few systems for the routine stuff, but I know we will never be OUT of work. There is too much esoteric/reference lab type stuff being ordered still.
It is a bit scary tho'.
> > If I had it to do all over again, I'd go into radiology and specialize > > in CT and/or MRI, or possibly ultra-sound. I've heard that pays a lot [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I'd do banking ! Ok. ;-)
And I plan to retire into jewelry design. I need to learn proper soldering techniques first, or get more serious about investigating precious metal clay... There is FAR more money to be made in the bead and jewelry industry!
Interesting how much people are willing to pay to decorate themselves. <lol>
I just have to learn a bit more, and enter some competitions.
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Mike Collins - 22 Apr 2005 14:04 GMT > I think the shortage is world wide by now! > It's just beginning to really hit here. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > I just have to learn a bit more, and enter some competitions. Katra We are automated but not completely. The reason one of our senior BMSs did over 1000 samples in a night is that he wanted to put our new track system through it's paces and see just what could be done. Pre track one person often did several hundred samples at night. The track has made life less stressful in biochemistry automation but there is still plenty of work to do.
It's hard to find qualified staff in East Anglia but we have a steady supply of trainees most of whom have degrees in related subjects and have to top up their qualifications to meet current standards. he problem in not finding potential trainees but funding their courses.
Pay at the lower levels is due to improve a lot soon - particularly for trainees.
We do pay overtime but seniors only get this at time and chiefs like me are supposed to do it for free.
 Signature Mike Collins UK Mike&heather-at-oakwellmount-dot-freeserve-dot-co-dot-uk
Katra - 22 Apr 2005 19:15 GMT > Katra > We are automated but not completely. The reason one of our senior BMSs did [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > We do pay overtime but seniors only get this at time and chiefs like me are > supposed to do it for free. So what track system do you use and how does it work? I've never seen one in person...
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Mike Collins - 25 Apr 2005 18:17 GMT We have a Thermo Life sciences track supplied by Ortho. We have 3 Vitros 950s and one 250 on the track and one 250 plus two Beckman DXis off track. The track is fairly basic (no centrifuge, aliquotter, decapper or recapper) but it made life a lot less stressful. Pending logs are a lot smaller and we can deal with samples much more easily on the late and night shifts. Life will get difficult in October when we have to dismantle the track while the lab is rebuilt.
We will have a more comprehensive automated system next year when we re-equip.
You must be the same Katra who posted on ASW. I don't go there any more.
Mike
Katra - 25 Apr 2005 19:07 GMT > We have a Thermo Life sciences track supplied by Ortho. We have 3 > Vitros 950s and one 250 on the track and one 250 plus two Beckman DXis [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > night shifts. Life will get difficult in October when we have to > dismantle the track while the lab is rebuilt. Heh. I can imagine... I was in on our last lab move also. People came in over the weekend and did some overtime to get stuff moved, and to keep all up and running.
Thanks for the input! I'm sure a track is in my eventual future if things keep going the way they are....
> We will have a more comprehensive automated system next year when we > re-equip. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Mike Possible. There are several Katra's on the internet tho' and I don't recognize that group in my current list either. I mostly do gardening, cooking lists, and graphic art lists now. ;-)
Gotta have a good hobby.......
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Annie - 26 Apr 2005 19:54 GMT Sorry if this is slightly off-topic.... but I got the Quality Systems Manager's post. I will be leaving labwork which I've been doing since I was 17 (via OND,HNC, Fellowship).
I thought it was pretty scary going from a routine bacti lab to a reference unit doing molecular testing but this is a totally different ball game!
Annie :o)
ps - now that my hands wont be spending most of their days in latex gloves.... I'm getting myself a set of nails!
Manky Badger - 26 Apr 2005 23:52 GMT > Sorry if this is slightly off-topic.... but I got the Quality Systems > Manager's post. I will be leaving labwork which I've been doing since I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > reference > unit doing molecular testing but this is a totally different ball game! Congrats !!!!
Good luck
SHARI - 23 Apr 2005 19:59 GMT As a microbiologist in the field for 20+ years, I can attest to the median age. But it also makes you wonder why so many people still in the field. Perhaps job fulfillment. Maybe it's not the money, but if you want more money, go into nursing. My opinion is a good nurse is worth all she gets. However, they don't stay in the field as long for the most part. Again, as it was mentioned by someone else, you have to do what will keep you satisfied.
Katra - 23 Apr 2005 20:45 GMT > As a microbiologist in the field for 20+ years, I can attest to the > median age. But it also makes you wonder why so many people still in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the most part. Again, as it was mentioned by someone else, you have to > do what will keep you satisfied. I think I am still in it after 18 years because I DO find it fulfilling, and at $21.00 per hour (plus shift differential) the compensation is sufficient for my needs along with the little bit if extra money I earn on ebay. ;-)
Yes, nursing WOULD pay more, but I have no desire whatsoever to be a nurse. If I was just looking for more money, there are other fields that pay even more.
I guess another reason that I stay is because I'm comfortable..... At my age, routine is just that. Comfortable. I know my job, I know the people, I have enough experience to handle crisis etc. ;-)
I can expand my home business over time so I have something to retire in to.
Despite all the moaning and complaining, there are FAR worse jobs, and worse places to work for! Early in my career I worked additional PRN jobs so I know that where I work is not all that bad...... Some places are pure hell! St. David's in Austin is a good example! When I worked PRN there, I felt like a random number generator and was almost climbing the walls after only 6 hours there! No wonder they have hire on bonuses being offered there right now. <G> They'd have to offer me a LOT to work there again......
Still, I'm a bit worried about the future with the decrease in availability of qualified new lab people. It's going to get interesting here pretty soon!
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JEDilworth - 24 Apr 2005 00:17 GMT I think the reason people stay with microbiology is that it's the most hands-on department left in the lab. The work is mentally stimulating, and if you work in a large enough lab, there's always something "interesting."
I think nursing appeals to a different personality type than the lab does. We have quite a few family friends who are nurses, and their interests are definitely more "people" oriented than mine. I'm not big on the patient contact side of things, but that's what they like about their jobs. I think this is why nurses have such a hard time with doing QC on POC instruments like glucose meters, etc. because they just can't get into the technical stuff. They depend on us to do it, and just would rather not deal with all that stuff.
I agree - being a nurse takes a special kind of person (which I am not). I am much more at home in the lab and would probably miss it if I worked somewhere else. Five years ago I tried a CRA - clinical research associate - position in the oncology department at our local medical school. The job really should have been given to an RN, as it dealt with becoming intimately acquainted with the patients' charts, because information had to come off the charts for the different research programs the oncology patients were enrolled in. I lasted a month. I missed the lab; I hated the quiet of being in an office. The learning curve was at least 2-3 years, and, lastly, the pay was bad. I could have done it for the pay given if I had enjoyed it, but I felt like I was in prison. A lab job offer came to me two weeks into the job, and I interviewed and left. I've never done that before, but the job was just "not me." I shudder internally everytime I think about that awful month. I told them at the exit interview that they really needed to hire a nurse for the position.
I'm curious to see how long all the micro people in our place hang out before they retire. I'm about five years older than the core group of day shifters at our lab. It will be interesting to see who leaves first. Since I've only been there five years I'm on second shift three nights a week, but I'm the "senior" person on our shift, and my team leader and I have the most micro experience on 2nd. I don't plan on leaving the shift for days (I hate to get up in the morning) so I'll probably have a job for as many years as I can drag my butt into work. We do plate reading on our shift also, so it does make it more interesting than just setting up specimens.
I have a friend from grade school who is my age. She's an RN in Neonatal ICU. She works three twelve hour shifts a week. She said when she turns 62 (6 more years) she's leaving. She said the stress about kills her now. She said that nursing jobs are easy to come by and she could work per diem at a nursing home or many other venues for extra money. She said she's not sure if she can stand the stress of hovering over teeny babies for even six more years. I think the lab is infinitely less stressful than that.
Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology - 31 years
> As a microbiologist in the field for 20+ years, I can attest to the > median age.
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