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Medical Forum / General / Laboratory / November 2004

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armed services-trained techs

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lablady - 17 Nov 2004 18:58 GMT
    Do any of you supervisors have armed services trained techs on your
staff?  Do you allow them to perform moderate and high complexity
testing?  Do you review/document all of their (non-waived)testing
reports?
    My understanding of the CLIA reg is:  
They must have proof of sucessful completion of their training
They must have 5 years of bench experience in a government facility
We must have documented evidence (through training/orientation
forms)that they are proficient in whichever lab dicipline they are
assigned to work.
    If this is not true, can you point me to the reg that disputes
this?
Thank you.

--
John Gentile - 18 Nov 2004 04:43 GMT
Prior to the late 90s (I think around '98) the minimum a military lab tech
needed to do was a 15 week course. This really only qualified them to do
simple UA's, POCT, phlebotomy. In reality they did much more while in the
service. Once they got some time under their belt they could go for the
advanced training for a 52 week course that is equivalent to a 2 year degree
program. After '98 the only option for them is the 52 week course. They can
also attend an off base college to earn their general courses and electives
giving them a full AS degree.

>    Do any of you supervisors have armed services trained techs on your
> staff?  Do you allow them to perform moderate and high complexity
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> this?
> Thank you.

Signature

John Gentile MS M(ASCP)                     yjgent@cox.net
Laboratory Information, QA Manager
VA Medical Center
Providence, RI

The contents of this message are mine personally and do not reflect any
position of the Government or VA.

furtig - 19 Nov 2004 02:05 GMT
I am a section head / supervisors.  Got my initial experience  by working
three years in Hematology, blood bank, Micro, etc. , pulling 24 hr call
every three days.  I have 1 year experience as a corpsman in a combat zone.
One has ever truly experienced true staff shortages until he or she has
worked a military lab.  Finished college after leaving the Navy, but knew
everything I needed to before going back to college.  College contributed
little to the practical aspects and provide much free time.   The military
train techs I have meet have been superior in motivation and ability.  I
would prefer to hire them over any others.  I don't give a rats a.s for that
type CLIA documentation.

Signature

Detective Tom Polhaus:  " Heavy.  What
is it?"
Sam Spade:  "The, uh, stuff that dreams
are made of."

>      Do any of you supervisors have armed services trained techs on your
> staff?  Do you allow them to perform moderate and high complexity
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> --
JEDilworth - 19 Nov 2004 20:08 GMT
I work in microbiology. Through my thirty year lab jaunt, I have run
into three military techs (no one since the 80's). One worked as a
generalist in a small hospital I worked at in 1977, another worked as a
second shift generalist in the 80's. A third worked general lab and got
into computer stuff.

The general feeling everyone had of two of these guys is that they
didn't do things "by the book" and winged it a lot. One ended up getting
fired. To be fair, he had many other problems and has ended up having
problems throughout his working career. I don't know what happened to
the other one. The computer specialist sadly is not working any more and
has left the field due to disability.

I guess I lean on the side of documented training. We have a couple
MLT's in micro/virology who just don't do as well as the MT's. To be
fair, we also have an MT who is struggling right now and does far worse
than either of the MLT's. Management is FINALLY dealing with this
problem after many complaints.

I think supervisors must 1) have proper documentation of all workers to
meet current CLIA regulations and 2) make sure EVERYONE can do the
assigned work in an efficient manner following procedures. 3) not ignore
problems until they piss everyone off in the department.

I also will readily admit that working in microbiology is unlike working
in any other part of the lab. Our STATs are not the same as others in
the lab. Sure, we have things we need to do right away, but there's
always a little bit of time to puzzle and figure things out. Micro
people are puzzle solvers and this is attracts a different type of tech
than any other part of the laboratory. The pace is slow and steady, as
opposed to explosively busy with down periods (which is why I like
it...).

I also think that assuming everyone who is military trained is superior
to those who are not probably passes over many competent people. After
all, a typical hospital lab is in the civilian world, so I think the
percentage of non-military people applying for jobs would be greater
than military (unless you are in a city with a large base, which I
admittedly am not). I will admit I have not run into any military people
in the last 15 years, so hopefully standards are better than they were
in the 70's. Every job candidate must be judged on his or her own
merits.

Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP)
Microbiology 30 years

 The military train techs I have meet have been superior in motivation
and ability.  I
> would prefer to hire them over any others.  I don't give a rats a.s for that
> type CLIA documentation.
Shylirin - 19 Nov 2004 05:39 GMT
I am a lab supervisor but have never hired an armed services trained tech.
I can comment some on the CLIA reg issue though.  You must have on file
proof of successful completion of training as well as documentation of
proficiency.  Subpart M of the regs (for testing personnel)states the
following for moderate complexity testing:
(3) Be a high school graduate or equivalent and have successfully
     completed an official military medical laboratory procedures course of
     at least 50 weeks duration and have held the military enlisted
     occupational specialty of Medical Laboratory Specialist (Laboratory
     Technician); OR
(4)(i) Have earned a high school diploma or equivalent; and
   (ii) Have documentation of training appropriate for the testing
     performed prior to analyzing patient specimens. Such training must
     ensure that the individual has--
   (A) The skills required for proper specimen collection, including
     patient preparation, if applicable, labeling, handling, preservation
or
     fixation, processing or preparation, transportation and storage of
     specimens;
   (B) The skills required for implementing all standard laboratory
     procedures;
   (C) The skills required for performing each test method and for
     proper instrument use;
   (D) The skills required for performing preventive maintenance,
     troubleshooting and calibration procedures related to each test
     performed;
   (E) A working knowledge of reagent stability and storage;
   (F) The skills required to implement the quality control policies
     and procedures of the laboratory;
   (G) An awareness of the factors that influence test results; and
   (H) The skills required to assess and verify the validity of patient
     test results through the evaluation of quality control sample values
     prior to reporting patient test results.

Part 4 indicates that nothing beyond a high school diploma or equivalent
plus proper (documented) training is required to perform testing.  I would
not allow an individual who is not able to take the MT or MLT certification
exam to perform high complexity testing.  I couldn't find anything relating
to 5 years of military experience.  Once the tech has proven proficiency in
testing, you should not have to review or document all of their testing
reports unless you feel it is necessary.  Hope this helps.

Shy

>      Do any of you supervisors have armed services trained techs on your
> staff?  Do you allow them to perform moderate and high complexity
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> --
 
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