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Medical Forum / General / Laboratory / October 2004Agenda for Change(aarrgghhh!)
With apologies to people who are not going to have the pleasure of going through this debacle, I was wondering if anyone has had any experience of it yet? We are currently in the process of "tidying-up" job descriptions for job matching and it's proving to be a nightmare already! The problem I have is that I work in a national reference unit ( so my duties are going to be different to others on the same grade in the rest of the lab) and that I also have a discretionary point for being an audit officer too. I've been told that I might not get anything for the audit officer extra part and that if it's in my job description then I have to do the duties. We were going to put it as an appendix to my job as I audit other labs (ie virology, bacteriology ets) and it's not a requirement for working in the Ref Unit. I've been told that won't matter! My question is - does anyone know how the discretionary points have been incorporated into the job descriptions and can you tell whether you have been moved up 1 point on the scale for having them? I've asked union reps and people in other labs and no one can answer! Thanks Anne > With apologies to people who are not going to have the pleasure of going > through this debacle, I was wondering if anyone has had any experience of [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Anne Discretionary points aren't incorporated into A4C. Auditing is part of your current job and therefore should be included in your job description and it will be scored along with everything else you do. If you don't include it then you'll get a lower point score. IIRC auditing is part of BMS profiles certainly band 7 and above and possibly 6 You need to emphasise the extra knowledge and experience required to audit a variety of departments especially if they are technical as opposed to quality system audits (that's presuming each department works to the same quality system). Dave > My question is - does anyone know how the discretionary points have been > incorporated into the job descriptions and can you tell whether you have > been moved up 1 point on the scale for having them? I've no answers, except to say that I currently have two discretionary points (for training & IT responsibilities) and I still want some enhancement for these reponsibilities in "the new world order". I certainly won't be doing them for free. > I've no answers, except to say that I currently have two discretionary > points (for training & IT responsibilities) and I still want some > enhancement for these reponsibilities in "the new world order". > I certainly won't be doing them for free. It seems as though if we don't include them in our job descriptions, we won't get the points, and if we do, we might not get points. I said that if I wasn't going to be paid then I won't do the job - but I've been told that I HAVE to do it if it's in my job description! We only went through CPA Inspection last month - it never rains..... :o) Annie >> My question is - does anyone know how the discretionary points have been >> incorporated into the job descriptions and can you tell whether you have [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > enhancement for these reponsibilities in "the new world order". > I certainly won't be doing them for free. There are recruitment and retention premia available, but don't make the mistake of thinking that because there isn't an identifiable extra payment for you duties that they aren't recognised and I think that most of the bands have incorporated the discretionary points so that the pay at the top of band 5 is equivalent to a BMS1 with 3 points. It looks like experienced BMS 1 will be on band 6 which is the old BMS 2 pay scale, BMS 2 will probably be on band 6 or 7 (some praps 8a fingers crossed) and 3s on 7 or 8. In most situations there should be a significant payrise. You have the extra skills to take you up to the next band when the opportunity makes itself available. Dave >>> My question is - does anyone know how the discretionary points have been >>> incorporated into the job descriptions and can you tell whether you have >>> been moved up 1 point on the scale for having them? >> I've no answers, except to say that I currently have two discretionary >> points (for training & IT responsibilities) and I still want some >> enhancement for these reponsibilities in "the new world order". >> I certainly won't be doing them for free. > You have the extra skills to take you up to the next band when the > opportunity makes itself available. But you don't, though. Say, for example (using random numbers, but the principle is the same) my job with no increments comes out at 610 points. If Band 5d if 600 - 650 points, then I'm band 5d. Pretty cut & dried. However if my additional responsibilities only add another 30 points, then I get no more money for it. >> But you don't, though. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > responsibilities only add another 30 points, then I get no more money for > it. We need to find out from the early implementer sites. It all seems so cloak and dagger though. So much for pay being standardised! Annie >>> But you don't, though. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > cloak > and dagger though. So much for pay being standardised! But these "early implementor" sites have't implemented properly. The word on the street is that in "the new world order" any overtime cannot be more than 10% of your total wage. Last year 25% of my income was from on call. Early implementor sites haven't dared touch out-of-hours earnings. If it's any help, this month's IBMS gazette has jobs for BMS 1s at Tommy's paid on Band 6. > >>> But you don't, though. > >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > If it's any help, this month's IBMS gazette has jobs for BMS 1s at Tommy's > paid on Band 6. I saw that, but a colleague who has seen that JD said that it seemed to be written practically quoting the A4C catagories. We've been told that if our JDs look like that then they will be sent back! Nothing is consistent. We've also been told by our trust that if our JDs are not in by a certain date (which seems to be moving all the time) then they will use our old ones. I would swear - but it's a Sunday :) Annie >>>> But you don't, though. >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > But these "early implementor" sites have't implemented properly. It would appear Sunderland hasn't been implemented properly. > The word on the street is that in "the new world order" any overtime > cannot be more than 10% of your total wage. > Last year 25% of my income was from on call. > Early implementor sites haven't dared touch out-of-hours earnings. Out of hours payments have been removed from A4C and there's a 4 yr period for a resolution to be found. > If it's any help, this month's IBMS gazette has jobs for BMS 1s at Tommy's > paid on Band 6. and one of the EI sites had BMS 1s on band 5 Dave > We need to find out from the early implementer sites. It all seems so > cloak > and dagger though. So much for pay being standardised! > > Annie Quite a lot has come out. www.amicushealth.org Dave > We need to find out from the early implementer sites. It all seems so > cloak > and dagger though. So much for pay being standardised! > > Annie Get yourself subscribed to http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/david-houliston-nhs/ and you'll get all the latest. Dave > Get yourself subscribed to > http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/david-houliston-nhs/ > > and you'll get all the latest. > > Dave Thanks Dave :) Annie > But you don't, though. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > responsibilities only add another 30 points, then I get no more money for > it. Having the extra responsibilities might make the difference between band 5 and 6 or band 6 and 7. If you take on extra responsibilities which for example might be identified under KSF then you ask for your job to be regarded. It should be a much more transparent process than we currently have i.e. you get paid for what you do not what your job title says. Personally I think it would be difficult to drop the extra responsibilities as that's what you're employed to do. If you do then I'd guess your employers would reassess your job and you may end up marking time for a couple of years because your points score has reduced. Dave Hi, Only just discovered newsgroups! I work in one of the early implementer sites (UHA) as a biomed 1 and we currently have not been banded!! So unfortunately cannot offer you any help there.I have heard the same things you have about experienced staff being banded at 6 etc. but cannot confirm anything from an early implementer point of view. I had my banding interview in february this year and was told I would find out within two months... and have heard nothing since. As for the discretionary points being incorporated, same thing... no-one has heard anything and no-one has been told anything. Working in an early implementer site has meant nothing 'cos we are in the same information boat as every one else! > With apologies to people who are not going to have the pleasure of going > through this debacle, I was wondering if anyone has had any experience of [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > I've asked union reps and people in other labs and no one can answer! At a meeting about the co-terminus degrees on Friday I was told that the only nationally agreed BMS bandings was that newly qualified BMS straight out of university with a co-terminus degree would be on band five. A lot of supposition & guesswork then follows. Hope that helps. |
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