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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / August 2005

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Overlapping outbreaks??

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Tom - 23 Jul 2005 17:57 GMT
Hello all,

Lately my outbreaks have been strange and I was just wondering if anyone
else gets things like this. A couple of weeks ago I had some itching going
on in the groin area. I didn't really scratch it, but then saw that the area
was red and there were about 4 "slit like cuts" together and one alone.Then
the area became sore and they healed without scabbing over in a week. This
was in the groin where the leg and torso meet. At the end of the outbreak I
started developing leg pain and tingling and then finally a small number of
pinchy pimples on the inner thighs, which went away in a few days. Now my
anal area is itching and my penis is burning and tingling a little.

What I am curious to know is are these 3 separate outbreaks (slits, pimples,
and anal itching), or just the same one where the prodrome is happening
after the sores? Is that even possible? This is the first time I have gotten
slits as part of an outbreak. In the past they were usually pinchy pimples
on the inner thighs or tiny sores on the penis.

I am having a tough week at work, because we are going through a big company
merger and I have been stressed out! I think since all this stress started,
my outbreaks have increased. On the other hand I have recently been craving
chocolate and peanuts and I had eaten both of those recently.

Thanks,
Tom
Angela S. - 25 Jul 2005 01:21 GMT
Refresh my memory Tom ~ what was it you said you were using to treat your
outbreaks?

Angela :)

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> Hello all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> Thanks,
> Tom
Tom - 26 Jul 2005 00:54 GMT
Hi Angela,

Well I was taking Valtrex for a short time, but I am not taking any meds
right now. I use something called Nupricanel which is made for hemorrhoids
but on the sores to numb them. My girlfriends OBGYN told her she could use
this for her genital herpes sores, and that I could probably do the same. I
also have tried cortisone cream for the itching.

I just didn't know if it was possible to get prodrome like itching then
sores, then prodrome again??

The slits healed as well as the pimples. Right now everything is pretty
calm, but that should last about a 3 weeks to a month tops and I'll be
having them again. My OB's are short (1 week) but frequent although the
symptoms aren't that bad. My girlfriend has HSV1 (genital) that she had 12
years and she was averaging 2 OB's a year, but now since we have been having
regular sex, she is getting them back to back. Her outbreaks are much worse
then mine though. She gets severe itching and burning, where as I get severe
symptoms only once in a great while.

Thanks,
Tom

> Refresh my memory Tom ~ what was it you said you were using to treat your
> outbreaks?
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> > Thanks,
> > Tom
Grant - 26 Jul 2005 02:23 GMT
Do not, I repeat, do NOT put cortisone cream on your herpes outbreaks!!!
Steroids are one of the worst things you can use on an outbreak.  It just makes
the outbreak much worse.  I know a few people who try a steroid cream and their
herpes goes wacky.  I know I can't take any steroid pills and had hoped that
creams would be safe if needed.  But from what I've heard from a few friends,
nope.  Don't tempt it.

Have your girlfriend see her doctor to make sure she doesn't have something else
going on other than herpes.

ar

>Hi Angela,
>
[quoted text clipped - 63 lines]
>> > Thanks,
>> > Tom
Tom - 26 Jul 2005 05:19 GMT
Well I think she was using alot of the cortisone cream, so maybe that's
whats causing it. Her doctor said it was herpes. She was using valtrex and
now she is not. I'll keep you posted. Shes been under alot of stress also so
thats probably it.

Tom

> Do not, I repeat, do NOT put cortisone cream on your herpes outbreaks!!!
> Steroids are one of the worst things you can use on an outbreak.  It just makes
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Tom
Angela S. - 27 Jul 2005 07:47 GMT
Steroids are VERY bad for herpes simplex virus.

Why did she stop using the Valtrex?

(I'm curious)

Angela :)

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www.herpes-help.org
www.herpesonline.org
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> Well I think she was using alot of the cortisone cream, so maybe that's
> whats causing it. Her doctor said it was herpes. She was using valtrex and
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Tom
Tim Fitzmaurice - 27 Jul 2005 08:21 GMT
> Steroids are VERY bad for herpes simplex virus.

Steroids ALONE are very bad by doing variosu thing to enhance HSV
activity, but as usual the entire detailed story gets greyer in the
middle..

Getting the initial primary dat on this phenomenon isnt easy as where the
computerised databases start the observation is already well established
that steroids and herpes dont really mix....papers from the 70s like
these are already discussing in detail and in review - including
mechanisms...the big ones to watch are the anti-inflammatory steroids
(rememeber there are more than one group of molecules that get classed as
steroids and they have different mechanisms as well)

Easty DL, Carter C.
Mechanisms of resistance and hypersensitivity in herpes simplex keratitis.
Trans Ophthalmol Soc U K. 1979 Apr;99(1):126-33. Review.
Persistence, reactivation, and cell transformation by human herpeviruses:
herpes simplex 1, 2 (HSV-1, HSV-2), cytomegalovirus (CMV),
varicella-zoster (VZV), Epstein-Barr virus (EBV).
Can J Microbiol. 1979 Mar;25(3):254-60. Review. No abstract available.
     Cooper JA Jr, Daniels CA, Trofatter EF Jr
The effect of prednisolone on antibody-dependent cell-mediated
cytotoxicity and the growth of type I herpes simplex virus in human cells.
Invest Ophthalmol Vis Sci. 1978 Apr;17(4):381-5.
Weinstein BI, Schwartz J, Gordon GG, Dominguez MO, Varma S, Dunn MW,
Southren AL.
Characterization of a glucocorticoid receptor and the direct effect of
dexamethasone on herpes simplex virus infection of rabbit corneal cells in
culture.
Invest Ophthalmol Vis Sci. 1982 Nov;23(5):651-9.

Here's one that looks at possible mechanisms in detail...obviously a bit
artificial being culture but you pull all sorts out of such areas.
Erlandsson AC, Bladh LG, Stierna P, Yucel-Lindberg T, Hammarsten O, Modeer
T, Harmenberg J, Wikstrom AC.
Herpes simplex virus type 1 infection and glucocorticoid treatment
regulate viral yield, glucocorticoid receptor and NF-kappaB levels.
J Endocrinol. 2002 Oct;175(1):165-76.

THey could have further reaching effects than simply on the person treated
if this animal study holds up in humans as well.
Yorty JL, Schultz SA, Bonneau RH
Postpartum maternal corticosterone decreases maternal and neonatal
antibody levels and increases the susceptibility of newborn mice to herpes
simplex virus-associated mortality.
J Neuroimmunol. 2004 May;150(1-2):48-58.

However, grey area time, steroids in combination with an antiviral will
work - there is a very nice drug combo called ME-609 being worked up that
takes advantage of that.

Harmenberg JG, Awan AR, Alenius S, Stahle L, Erlandsson AC, Lekare G,
Flink O, Augustsson E, Larsson T, Wikstrom AC, Stierna P, Field HJ,
Larsson AG, Oberg B.
ME-609: a treatment for recurrent herpes simplex virus infections.
Antivir Chem Chemother. 2003 Jul;14(4):205-15.

Mixing and matching the combination correctly was hoever a very big
project so its not simply a matter of down a few acyclovir when you whack
cortisone cream on or even mixing two creams together and so self
experimentation is going to carry big risks of getting it wrong.

This paper is a case report - it actually looks primarily at one of the
rare cases of drug resistant strains in an immunocompetent person, but
does imply that the steroids may not have helped the situation...
Kriesel JD, Spruance SL, Prichard M, Parker JN, Kern ER.
Recurrent antiviral-resistant genital herpes in an immunocompetent
patient.
J Infect Dis. 2005 Jul 1;192(1):156-61. Epub 2005 May 27.

Tim
--
When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart
ICQ: 5178568
Tom - 28 Jul 2005 04:15 GMT
I don't know...she just takes if when she is having a big outbreak. Now
she's getting back to back small ones and guess what? Now I am getting
another one! I should stop eating chocolate and coffee though and thats
something that I have alot of.

> Steroids are VERY bad for herpes simplex virus.
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> >
> > Tom
Angela S. - 28 Jul 2005 16:54 GMT
You can certainly try to take those things out of your diet but it doesn't
mean it will work. I tried taking those things out of my diet a long time
ago and it didn't work for me. I tried everything and saved suppressive
therapy for last. Once I realized that there wasn't much value in picking
your food apart I decided to try suppressive therapy and in the end that is
what worked for me. I am no longer on suppressive therapy but then again (10
years into this herpes stuff) I only get outbreaks once or twice a year "if"
that even.. Well ~ I don't know what else to tell you other than good luck
and I hope you get your herpes situation figured out.

Hang in there,

Angela :)

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www.herpes-help.org
www.herpesonline.org
www.std-for-dummies.org

>I don't know...she just takes if when she is having a big outbreak. Now
> she's getting back to back small ones and guess what? Now I am getting
> another one! I should stop eating chocolate and coffee though and thats
> something that I have alot of.
Tom - 29 Jul 2005 22:54 GMT
Hi Angela,

I wish that were my situation but instead I am averaging 1-2 a month! I had
one that started Sunday and now only my lower back and groin are aching alot
but the rest is better. Mine are pretty short at least. I cannot afford
valtrex right now.

Tom

> You can certainly try to take those things out of your diet but it doesn't
> mean it will work. I tried taking those things out of my diet a long time
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Angela :)
Angela S. - 30 Jul 2005 07:22 GMT
I'm sorry to hear you are having so many problems with outbreaks.

I hope things get better for you soon!

Angela :)

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www.herpes-help.org
www.herpesonline.org
www.std-for-dummies.org

> Hi Angela,
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Tom
Tom - 30 Jul 2005 23:37 GMT
Yes its the stress at work, plus I drink alot of coffee! Mine are really bad
prodrome and minimal sores and rashes etc. My girlfriend is the opposite.
I'm getting used to having outbreaks, but I don't like them...

> I'm sorry to hear you are having so many problems with outbreaks.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> >
> > Tom
Angela S. - 27 Jul 2005 07:46 GMT
Hi Tom ~

> Well I was taking Valtrex for a short time, but I am not taking any meds
> right now. I use something called Nupricanel which is made for hemorrhoids
> but on the sores to numb them. My girlfriends OBGYN told her she could use
> this for her genital herpes sores, and that I could probably do the same.
> I
> also have tried cortisone cream for the itching.

Cortisone cream is a no-no for folks that have herpes because of the steroid
in it.. Herpes Simplex Virus and Steroids do not mix. In fact.. I don't know
why people use creams in the first place. It's much better to keep the area
clean and dry.

If I may ask ~ why did you stop taking the Valtrex?

> I just didn't know if it was possible to get prodrome like itching then
> sores, then prodrome again??

Sure, it's definitely possible.

> The slits healed as well as the pimples. Right now everything is pretty
> calm, but that should last about a 3 weeks to a month tops and I'll be
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> having
> regular sex, she is getting them back to back.

I'm willing to bet that friction from sex is probably what's triggerring the
outbreaks.
You guys might want to think about suppression for a short time until those
are under control.

Just something to think about..

Hang in there,

Angela :)

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 by Those Who Live It!
www.yoshi2me.com
www.herpes-help.org
www.herpesonline.org
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M2slo2cht@nospam.invalid - 27 Jul 2005 12:47 GMT
>I'm willing to bet that friction from sex is probably what's triggerring the
>outbreaks.
>You guys might want to think about suppression for a short time until those
>are under control.

AND lube!
Might I suggest Astroglide.

M2
Angela S. - 28 Jul 2005 02:38 GMT
Amen - M2. lol :)

www.yoshi2me.com
www.herpes-help.org

>>I'm willing to bet that friction from sex is probably what's triggerring
>>the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> M2
Tom - 28 Jul 2005 04:27 GMT
> AND lube!
> Might I suggest Astroglide.
>
> M2

What is Astroglide? Is that like KY Jelly? Where can I get it? When she gets
an OB she gets kind of dry I think...maybe that will help.
M2slo2cht@nospam.invalid - 28 Jul 2005 07:09 GMT
>What is Astroglide?

It's a super slippery liquid stuff in a bottle. On the shelf, the
bottle is in a purple colored box. Usually near the condoms.

>Where can I get it?

Good ol' Walmart for one. It's probably sold in many other pharmacies
as well.
Just for giggles, take your girlfriend through the Walmart line on a
busy day with the Astroglide, a box of condoms, a bottle of Zovirax, a
50' length of braided rope, a can of redi-whip, and a number of
assorted fresh vegetables  ;-)

M2
Tom - 28 Jul 2005 16:51 GMT
> Good ol' Walmart for one. It's probably sold in many other pharmacies
> as well.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> M2

LOL...I cannot see myself doing that though! I'm a very shy person, but it
would be funny!!! :o) We already use most of the other things. One thing I
don't do is use condoms during the outbreak because I figure I'm not going
to get any worse...
Grant - 28 Jul 2005 12:28 GMT
Tom,

You should use lube ALL the time, EVERY time.  That will cut down on the
friction and help avoid outbreaks - if friction is a contributing factor.

Astroglide...get it at the drugstore.

ar

>> AND lube!
>> Might I suggest Astroglide.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>What is Astroglide? Is that like KY Jelly? Where can I get it? When she gets
>an OB she gets kind of dry I think...maybe that will help.
Angela S. - 28 Jul 2005 16:55 GMT
Having sex during an outbreak is not a very wise thing to do.. in my honest
opinion.

Angela :)

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>> AND lube!
>> Might I suggest Astroglide.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> gets
> an OB she gets kind of dry I think...maybe that will help.
Tom - 28 Jul 2005 04:25 GMT
> If I may ask ~ why did you stop taking the Valtrex?

Well I just cannot afford it right now...I'm strapped financially.

> I'm willing to bet that friction from sex is probably what's triggerring the
> outbreaks.
> You guys might want to think about suppression for a short time until those
> are under control.
>
> Just something to think about..

Well that's a possibility I suppose. She's in the same boat as my
financially. I think its my diet and stress also. I was averaging one every
month or 3 weeks, but not that bad. Now I feel like I am going to be having
a really bad one, because my groin is aching on both sides and all the skin
on the thighs is prickly and sore feeling. I haven't had sex in a week, but
I guess these are the after effects.
Angela S. - 28 Jul 2005 16:56 GMT
Acyclovir is much cheaper not to mention GlaxoSmithKline has an excellent
patient assistance program.

Oh well.. best of luck to ya!

Angela :)

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>> If I may ask ~ why did you stop taking the Valtrex?
>
> Well I just cannot afford it right now...I'm strapped financially.
yansimon52 - 26 Jul 2005 08:18 GMT
No problem... first thing first is to apply some 'freshly burnt ashes'
on affected areas and if, there is an impovement come over to
singapore, to my holistic centre to get the job done...
Provided, patient must be able to stay as a vegetarian during the
treatment programme.
Tom - 26 Jul 2005 23:28 GMT
Well going to Singapore is not possible right now. We are both living day to
day and plus we both are non vegetarians. I take vitamins, but I really
don't see how ashes can do anything...

> No problem... first thing first is to apply some 'freshly burnt ashes'
> on affected areas and if, there is an impovement come over to
> singapore, to my holistic centre to get the job done...
> Provided, patient must be able to stay as a vegetarian during the
> treatment programme.
Tim Fitzmaurice - 01 Aug 2005 11:22 GMT
> Well going to Singapore is not possible right now.

I'll show my Far Eastern holiday bias here and also wander heavily off
topic - but that is pity...Singapore is a place well worht visiting and
for far more than the usual 2 or 3 day stopover it gets marketed for here
in the UK....

Tim
--
When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart
ICQ: 5178568
 
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