> You are only looking at one aspect of taking the medication and that's why
> you
> don't understand those of us that choose not to.
I could say the same thing AR.. you are only looking at the aspects that
make sense to you therefore you don't truly understand thos of us that
choose to use medications.
> Drugs are not all harmless to all people. For instance, there are the
> fillers
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> at all
> and what's she supposed to do?
Those are special circumstances AR.. don't you think? There are people that
have allergic reactions to certain meds and certain ingrediants that can be
found in these "fillers" just as they do with certain ingrediants that are
hidden in certain types of foods. Take celiac disease as an example.. it's
been a fight for those folks to get companies to properly label their foods
that are by the way "all natural."
> And for those of us who are vegan or vegetarian,
> there are animal products in many of those pills. Heck, gel caps aren't
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> years
> until I detoxed my body and got healthy.
Ar, why are you vegetarian? Is it a choice that you made for yourself
because it makes you feel better over all? If so, what do you so about
people that are not vegatarian? (I'm curious and those are honest questions)
> That brings up my next subject. Masking what the outbreaks really mean.
> I feel
> that if you're having a terrible time with outbreaks or you are trying to
> protect your partner from getting herpes, then fine.
"Masking what the outbreaks really mean." That's interesting AR.. do you
actually get intense and frequent outbreaks that last for days if not
treated quickly? Is there some sort of underlying message that an outbreaks
is supposed to really mean when all you feel is pain? In other words.. what
are we supposed to do with pain in general? What is a cancer paitent that
has been diagnosed terminal supposed to do with their pain? How do you
suggest we channel pain when we are experiencing an outbreak that is quite
painful?
> It is a decision that is
> up to you. However, it is my opinion that these outbreaks indicate a
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> turned
> off the "internal alarm."
Herpes doesn't cause the immune system to go down.. when activated the virus
travels the nerve pathways to the surface of the skin and is active to the
point that you can see and feel it in the form of an outbreak OR active to
the point that you can't see or feel it which is also known as Asymptomatic
Shedding. Stress can be a factor in this instance and the immune system
being down can be a factor in this instance but it's not the other way
around.
For the record.. unless you do daily PCR swabs you have no idea if you are
shedding the virus so just because you don't have any outbreaks that you can
see or feel doesn't mean that somehow you are healthier and doing all the
things that you feel will keep the virus down. It's not possible. If it were
possible we would all have that secret method to go by and we would all be
"healthy" and we would never have any herpes activity on the surface of the
skin - ever.
Why is it that 90% of those that have genital herpes don't know it and why
are they passing the virus on to unsuspecting partners? I'm sure many of
them are healthy and their immune systems are fabulous and they probably eat
right and excercise but yet they are still shedding the virus and have no
idea that they have herpes.
No two bodies are alike and it has nothing to do with how healthy you eat or
what meds you take..
> I would much rather be in tune with my body.
See... I feel as though I am in tune with my body. It's great when people
know exactly what is best for their bodies. Nobody can side step that no
matter the individual belief systems that are out there..
> Now, some of us have livers that really can't handle these medications as
> well.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> a
> medication just to make me feel better and run the risk of hurting myself.
I don't take medication just to make myself "feel better" Ar... for the
record... I don't have your liver problems and I don't develop severe
illnesses like you do. Does that make my lifestyle "better" or "healthier"?
I would never presume to tell people that works for me can only work for
them OR to have them feel as though the only reason they are taking meds is
so they can "feel better." Some people take medications because they have to
and not because they want to. Taking meds and not taking meds is a choice
and each person has to decide for themselves what is going to work best and
realize that everybody is different.
> And that leads us to my next point. Herpes meds are not medically
> necessary.
> They just make you feel better.
Oh? Sometimes herpes meds are medically necessary Ar. You don't think so
because herpes is not a problem for you. For example ~ I baby that is born
with neonatal herpes ~ the meds are medically necessary and that baby's life
depends on it. I am going back on suppressive therapy the last six weeks of
my pregnancy ~ taking suppressive therapy is medically necessary in order to
make sure that my baby has the best chance possible of having a normal birth
without outbreaks or asymptomactic shedding available to he/she in the birth
canal. Herpes meds are medically necessary for those that are suffering from
AIDS that happen to have herpes in addition to all the other cocktails they
have to have in order to prolong their life. Herpes meds are medically
necessarily if you are a person who is trying to decrease your partners
chances of contracting this virus. Define medically necessary and I can
honestly say it's going to be in the eye of the beholder Ar.
> Why should I risk my health for something that
> I really don't need.
You should do anything to your body that you don't feel comfortable doing...
but to imply that others are risking their health doing what is necessary
for their situation is selfish on your part... don't you think?
> Whereas I really do need my thyroid med. I suppose it is
> the difference between WANT and NEED. So in the meantime, I eat right, I
> exercise, and I work hard to get plenty of rest. I'm healthier because of
> it
> and I rarely have an outbreak.
Those are probably not the only reasons why you rarely have an outbreak.
Why? Because there are people out there that are doing the exact opposite of
what you are doing that rarely get outbreaks too. Didn't you say that you
had genital herpes type-1? If I remember correctly I could have swore that
is what you had. Well for starters genital herpes type-1 outbreaks are far
and few between anyway.
> And, what exactly IS long-term? Long-term tests show there is no risk to
> taking
> the meds. But, is that for everyone? Is that 20 years, 40 years, 50
> years, 60
> years?
You don't have the answer to that AR. Acyclovir has been around for more
than 20 and so far there have been no problems. All natural illegal drugs
have been around for centuries and there are all sorts of long term issues
with those... but I guess it won't fit since they are natural and from the
earth before being processed?
> Taking a "feel good" med now that might end up harming me in 30 years is
> not my idea of a good time.
Valtrex is not a "feel good" med. That's the part you don't seem to
understand. Herpes is a "disease" and that's something people would rather
forget than to admit. It's a "disease" that isn't going to go away and there
are times when it is medically necessary to take Valtrex to control our
"disease."
>Weighing the risk...coming up with "not worth it."
I refuse to tell anybody that it's "not worth it." To me.. whatever you can
do for your situation is "always worth it."
> I hope that sums up at least some thoughts on the matter.
It's cleared up a lot ~ thanks for sharing.
Angela

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Grant - 16 Jul 2005 00:22 GMT
Angela,
I'm stunned by your response to me. I think it was out of line, quite frankly.
For all the thousands of posts that you respond to in which you encourage
someone to take medication, do I contradict you? No. And, you seem to be
forgetting about the all the thousands of times that I have also suggested to
people that they try the meds. However, I support someone who doesn't want to
take meds and then honestly answer someone's questions about how I feel about it
and you take offense at it.
I honestly don't know why you are so defensive about this. You keep restating
things that I had already stated. But I really don't have the time to rehash
things with you.
ar
Angela S. - 16 Jul 2005 04:14 GMT
I was pretty stunned when you stated that "Herpes meds are not medically
necessary. They just make you feel better."
Ar you are a very nice person and I have always enjoyed corresponding with
you but today left me a tad bit shocked and stunned.
Angela

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> Angela,
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> ar
jeanniemay - 16 Jul 2005 08:14 GMT
I knew my post would get a strong reaction, but was hoping the personal
stuff could be left out of it!
The number one thing I want to comment on is that I do not believe that
Valtrex is a 'feel good' medication! I take it for medical reasons! Not
to feel good - it's certainly no 'happy pill' for me.
I have had herpes for about 5 years now, my first year was similar to
Angela's -one outbreak after the other (2-3 per month!!). My doctor
prescribed Acyclovir supressively, I took it for 12 months and honestly
believe that it did nothing to shorten the duration of outbreaks or
their frequency.
I suffered horribly in that year both emotionally and physically. I
took a twelve month break from medication because they were not
working, and over the next year my outbreaks did reduce (only about 1
per month), but I don't think that had anything to do with the
medication or my lifestyle or state of health, it's just simply the
nature of the virus.
I think for a year or two then that I only had occasional prodrome and
about 1 OB per year and I thought that was great. But, then they came
back - about once every month or so. When I saw a new doctor he told me
that there was better medication available so I tried Valtrex
symptomatically - and it worked!!!!
At last there was something that would clear up my OB and allow me to
get on with my life without having to limp around in agony! So since
then I have taken it symptomatically when necessary, as I stated
previously.
My problem is with people on groups (again I say not anyone in
particular or any group specifically) who warn people against the
medications. It scares me to think that someone new to a group, new to
herpes, can think that these people must know something they don't. It
worries me that this can impact negatively on their relationship with
their own doctor.
I understand that for some people there are medical reasons why they
should not take particular medications, (lactose and liver issues,
etc), I just wish that people would consider the impact their broad
statements could have on others.
It was certainly interesting to hear your own reasons for choosing to
take medications or not and I appreciate you all taking the time to
respond.
But I admit you lost me with the stuff about what the outbreaks really
mean - they mean, IMHO, that the herpes virus is reacting periodically
as is its nature. And no I certainly don't expect to be taking
antivirals everyday for twenty years - I think it would be a very rare
case of herpes that would require that kind of treatment.
Regards
Jeannie
Grant - 16 Jul 2005 12:02 GMT
Hi Jeannie,
You can, of course, believe however you wish to believe. If you need the meds,
then take them. I really don't care. But for those of us who wish not to, then
our opinion is just as valid.
People will not die if they don't take the meds. There are other medications
that are medically necessary, such as my thyroid medication. So, in my opinion,
herpes medications are not medically necessary. Other types of meds are.
Simple as that.
ar
>I knew my post would get a strong reaction, but was hoping the personal
>stuff could be left out of it!
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
>
>Jeannie
jeanniemay - 17 Jul 2005 08:55 GMT
You are right, I am probably not going to die if I do not take the
meds, but my quality of life will certainly be impacted if I don't take
them at times. So if you like, it is my personal choice to take a
medication which allows me to get on with my life with a lesser degree
of pain and discomfort. Life's too short to suffer through it, IMHO.
I don't think my choice to take meds has anything to do with 'belief',
and I think statements like 'herpes medications are not medically
necessary' are particularly irresponsible. You do not know what other
people's health or situations are like and that kind of statement could
give newbies an unnessarily negative opinion of herpes medications.
Consider someone who is newly diagnosed and sufferring badly - they see
comments like that and think they must be pathetic if they feel they
need medications. I've seen it happen!
*Herpes medications may not be medically necessary for you, in your
opinion* but for many many others that is simply not true.
Grant - 17 Jul 2005 12:23 GMT
Jeannie,
If you are not really interested in hearing my opinion, then don't ask for it.
You asked why some choose not to take meds and I told you why.
I don't care why you take the meds.
I don't care what you believe.
If you ask someone for their opinion it is really bad form to then argue with
them. You will not change my opinion. I will continue to say how I feel about
a subject when I am asked.
I have never told a newbie what you have accused me of telling them. You are
also out of line.
It is just as bad to tell newbies that meds are safe and harmless when they
might not be.
ar
>You are right, I am probably not going to die if I do not take the
>meds, but my quality of life will certainly be impacted if I don't take
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>*Herpes medications may not be medically necessary for you, in your
>opinion* but for many many others that is simply not true.
jeanniemay - 18 Jul 2005 09:23 GMT
AR
Let me try to make it clear to you:
1) I was not rying to change your opinion
2) I did not accuse you of doing anything
3) I was not arguing with you
Further discussion is pointless if you are going to read things into my
posts which are not there.
Grant - 16 Jul 2005 11:58 GMT
>I was pretty stunned when you stated that "Herpes meds are not medically
>necessary. They just make you feel better."
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Angela
The poster asked for the reasons why those of us choose not to use the meds.
And I told her. These are my reasons and I have never pushed them in this
group. I would expect some respect for my opinions as I have respected yours.
ar
Angela S. - 16 Jul 2005 16:44 GMT
Yes, but I would never presume to tell anybody that the meds they are taking
are not medically necessary. You don't know all the scenarios that require a
medical antidote. It's perfectly acceptable to say that herpes medications
are not medically necessary for YOU but to insinuate that they are not
medically necessary for others OR to make it seem as though people can pop
pills to "feel good" is not right. I don't take Valtrex (when I need to)
because it makes me "feel good." I take it (when I need to) because it's
medically necessary for me as it might be medically necessary for others.
You are entitled to your belief system as I am entitled to mine but you and
I are NOT entitled to say one way or the other what is going to work for
somebody else's body. Proven medications Vs. all natural both have their
pros and cons and for you to poo poo taking a herpes antiviral as a
statement for all who have herpes OR for me to poo poo an alternative
approach for all that have herpes is asinine.
Yes, you gave the poster your reasons but you didn't make it clear that what
works for you is certainly not proof of what will work for others.. you
didn't offer up any facts that have been proven.. you only stated that
herpes meds are not medically necessary and that they just make you feel
better. That right there tells me you do not understand the nature of the
virus OR the situations that absolutely warrant taking the meds.
All is not lost ~ Yes, I'm disappointed in how you worded it but then again
I'm not an English Lit major either. I can only continue to share the
information I am aware of and share what I know *based on my own
experiences* with herpes ensuring others that herpes varies from person to
person and each person will find a way to make things work for them.
Have a nice Saturday you guys..
Angela ;)

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>>I was pretty stunned when you stated that "Herpes meds are not medically
>>necessary. They just make you feel better."
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> ar
Grant - 17 Jul 2005 00:17 GMT
Angela,
I will not continue this. As far as I'm concerned not only did you not read
what I wrote correctly, nor did you bother to understand that the original
poster wanted to know why those of us don't take the meds felt the way we did.
I answered the question. Now get off my back for sticking my neck out and
saying what I believe. She asked for reasons why and that is what I gave her.
I have never attacked your personal views and yet you keep going at me. Welcome
to the world of free speech and an open forum. As far as I'm concerned, it is
wrong for you to continue to tell people that they CAN take the meds without
addressing the potential dangers for that person.
I will not say anymore on this subject. My opinion is that you personally
attacked me and I don't like it. Go ahead and respond so you can have the last
word. But don't be surprised if I suddenly become more verbal about my dislike
for the meds. You've encouraged me to speak my truth a lot louder.
ar
>Yes, but I would never presume to tell anybody that the meds they are taking
>are not medically necessary. You don't know all the scenarios that require a
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>>
>> ar
Grant - 17 Jul 2005 00:22 GMT
You know what, Angela? I have one more thing to say.
If you really read my post carefully, then you would see that everything was
based on ME. Not YOU. I talked about me and my opinions and my feelings. If
you decided that it was about you, then you've got a whole lot more trouble
going on than herpes. At no time did I say anything against people who take the
meds. This is NOT a safe place to explore, apparently. Unless everyone
believes as you do, I guess they aren't supposed to post. And that's the one
thing that Perl has right about this place.
ar
Angela S. - 17 Jul 2005 21:26 GMT
Ar,
I have always maintained that everybody has a right to their opinion. You of
course, have a right to share your viewpoint and base it on your own
experiences and things that you are factually aware of. I also have those
same rights. If you believe the herpes medications are not medically
necessary for you and that it would only be a way to "feel good" if you
personally took them then that is fine. I'm glad to FINALLY understand that
you in no way insinuated that taking herpes medications were not medically
necessary because I can think of a handful of situations that would warrant
that they are.. So if you were only speaking for yourself based on your own
personal experiences and not speaking for hundreds if not thousands of
people that take the meds because they are medically necessary then I do
apologize to you profusely.
For the record -- none of this has anything to do with Perl.
Take Care,
Angela

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> You know what, Angela? I have one more thing to say.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> ar