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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / March 2005Question about HSV1 vs HSV2
Hello everyone, I have a question that I tried to research on the net and couldn't find anything on this. Is it possible to have had HSV2 for lets say a few years and have been having recurring symptoms, then just recently get infected with HSV1 by receiving oral sex and starting all over with another Primary Outbreak? The reason I am asking is because for the past 6-7 years I have been having recurring outbreaks although not as severe as what is usually talked about in books. This past November I received oral sex from a woman that I didn't see any coldsores on, but nevertheless, I just started getting this huge outbreak in the genital area around 2/1/2005, and this time I have had red blisters (not hives that turn into sores). Instead of the sores being around the buttocks they are at the base of the penis. The blisters lasted 4 days before drying up one time, and then another blister that only lasted a day. The blisters didn't break or turn into sores, but the area was very achy and then itchy right before I got them. I also had very severe aches in the genital area, sore and achy scrotum, inner thighs, burning pains down the leg to the foot, burning while urinating and other things like lower back and headache etc. Now I am wondering if it is possible that I developed HSV1 after already having HSV2 and had another primary outbreak Maybe this is just the same strain and I just had a bad outbreak? This was a very bad experience, worse than I ever had. Thanks, Tom Hi Tom, There are so many possibilities...Yes, the scenario you described is possible. However, if your immune system was working well, you probably would have had some sort of protection from getting type 1. Take care, ar >Hello everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Tom >Is it possible to have had HSV2 for lets say a few years >and have been having recurring symptoms, then just recently get infected >with HSV1 Yep. That's possible. The good news is, after your primary, type 1 genital usually isn't as severe or recur as often or as long as type 2 (should peter out over time). So you may not have many type 1 outbreaks down the road. If you're curious, you can have your outbreaks culture tested to see what's actually going on. Btw, suppression on antivirals will work on both types. M2 > Yep. That's possible. > The good news is, after your primary, type 1 genital usually isn't as [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > M2 Then I was thinking that maybe I had HSV1 all this time, because the outbreaks usually lasted 7 days and were about 4-5 times a year, but didn't include the leg pain and burning and aching. Maybe I just acquired HSV2 without knowing it. I am thinking this because I had just about all the symptoms possible and its been going on a month now! I'm at the end of the outbreak. Right now I feel achy in the mid to upper back, headache and some tiredness, and occasional itching or slight aching in the inner thigh near the groin/scrotum. >Then I was thinking that maybe I had HSV1 <snip> >Maybe I just acquired HSV2 That the first thing that crossed my mind when I read your description but contracting type 2 genital via oral sex is rare because, among other risk factors, type 2 oral infection isn't common. You may have contracted type 2 at some other time lately though, by means of plain ol' fashioned genital sex. You didn't mention the chances of that. >I had just about all the >symptoms possible and its been going on a month now! I'm at the end of the >outbreak. Even so, I've heard of some pretty rough type 1genital primary outbreaks. It's just that the type 1 recurrences seem to taper off more quickly over time than type 2. >Right now I feel achy in the mid to upper back, headache and some >tiredness, and occasional itching or slight aching in the inner thigh near >the groin/scrotum. One suggestion I have is to get it cultured. Anf frankly, you may be to late in the outbreak to get a good sample. False negatives are common with cultures and the risk of a false negative is even higher towards the end of an outbreak. You need to have it done early. Another thing though, have a blood test to see which type (or both) you have. Catch here is, you'll need to wait 12-16 weeks after your possible exposure date to allow for enough antibodies for detection. On the other hand, a blood test positive for one type now and another blood test later (12-16 weeks) that's positive for both types will tell you which came first. You might consider that. M2 > That the first thing that crossed my mind when I read your description > but contracting type 2 genital via oral sex is rare because, among > other risk factors, type 2 oral infection isn't common. You may have > contracted type 2 at some other time lately though, by means of plain > ol' fashioned genital sex. You didn't mention the chances of that. I did have a regular sexual genital experience around that time which I think was Nov 6th 2004. I think the girl that I was intimate with was cheating on me, and thats probably how I got this to begin with. Then we had a fight and I met this girl that was kissing me and giving oral sex just after that time. I had the Herpes Titer test about mid Feb 2005, which is about 13-14 weeks from my last sexual exposure (yes its been that long!). Does that mean there is a still a good chance of finding the antibodies? I used a HerpeSelect titer Test and I should get the results soon. So maybe it is possible I have HSV2 and HSV1. > One suggestion I have is to get it cultured. Anf frankly, you may be > to late in the outbreak to get a good sample. False negatives are > common with cultures and the risk of a false negative is even higher > towards the end of an outbreak. You need to have it done early. The blisters already healed in 4 days from when they formed. I didnt get many blisters, it was mostly the aching and burning in the genital area that was the problem. > Another thing though, have a blood test to see which type (or both) > you have. Catch here is, you'll need to wait 12-16 weeks after your > possible exposure date to allow for enough antibodies for detection. > On the other hand, a blood test positive for one type now and another > blood test later (12-16 weeks) that's positive for both types will > tell you which came first. You might consider that. I had the test just as the outbreak was starting because my lower spine was starting to tingle and I was just beginning to get lower back pain and genital burning when I had the blood test drawn. The time the outbreak started was about 13-14 weeks from the date of exposure, so maybe that's right. Maybe the antibodies were high enough? Do you think that even if there still aren't enough antibodies (lets say its borderline, but I have had a rough outbreak the doctor will still prescribe Valtrex if I ask? Thanks, >I had the Herpes Titer test about mid Feb 2005, which is about 13-14 weeks >from my last sexual exposure (yes its been that long!). Does that mean there >is a still a good chance of finding the antibodies? I used a HerpeSelect >titer Test and I should get the results soon. You were still in the "iffy" range so a false negative is possible. A positive will be accurate though. At 12 weeks, a lot of people can develop detectable antibodies. It's just that at 16 weeks, the percentage of peeps developing antibodies by that time is higher. So just wait and see. >So maybe it is possible I have HSV2 and HSV1. Maybe. M2 writes: >> One suggestion I have is to get it cultured. Went back to read your previous posts and now realize you've already done that with negative results for both types. Depending on the results of the blood tests, you might want to try a culture again sometime. Depending on how curious you are about which type (or both) is causing your genital outbreaks. Another thing I see you had asked in an earlier post was about using Abreva for genital outbreaks. There have been credible reports on a.s.h. that indicate it works great. I've also heard from other credible sources that it doesn't. My suggestion, buy some and try it. It comes in a very small tube for about $15 bucks but it goes a long way if you're careful. >I had the test just as the outbreak was starting Which test? The first one (culture) that came back negative? Or the mid Feb blood test that you're still waiting on? >Maybe the antibodies were high enough? If you mean the blood test in mid Feb, the answer is yep, maybe. And fwiw, a culture test doesn't look for antibodies... and a blood test doesn't need symptoms. >Do you think that even if there still aren't enough antibodies (lets say its >borderline, but I have had a rough outbreak the doctor will still prescribe >Valtrex if I ask? Depends on the doctor but I see no reason why he wouldn't. The stuff seems to be safer than many otc drugs on the shelf. M2 > You were still in the "iffy" range so a false negative is possible. A > positive will be accurate though. At 12 weeks, a lot of people can > develop detectable antibodies. It's just that at 16 weeks, the > percentage of peeps developing antibodies by that time is higher. So > just wait and see. Okay well lets say that it shows antibodies but not enough to be a full positive because I didnt wait long enough. What I could do is get another test by early april, but this could get expensive especially if i have to pay for it myself. I suppose I will know how severe it is, if i have another outbreak soon. > Went back to read your previous posts and now realize you've already > done that with negative results for both types. Depending on the > results of the blood tests, you might want to try a culture again > sometime. Depending on how curious you are about which type (or both) > is causing your genital outbreaks. One thing I dont understand is that they said they tested me the first time for IgM and IgG and both showed negative on the basic test I had, but that was probably just at the 12 week mark and it wasnt a titer, so it didnt show an accurate reading of the antibody level, only that it wasnt a true positive. What confuses me is that I thought as long as you test for IgM you'd show antibodies and it could be sooner than 12 weeks from the date of exposure? I figured only the IgG needed to be 12-16 weeks? > Another thing I see you had asked in an earlier post was about using > Abreva for genital outbreaks. There have been credible reports on > a.s.h. that indicate it works great. I've also heard from other > credible sources that it doesn't. My suggestion, buy some and try it. > It comes in a very small tube for about $15 bucks but it goes a long > way if you're careful. I'll have to try it. Whats happening is two different types of outbreaks. One has mostly aches and pains in the legs and testicles and burning in the genital area and blisters that dont hurt. This one is the one that just started happening this month. Then there is a secondary outbreak that has itching in the back area, with tingling and hives that turn into very painful sores. This one has been going on for 7 years and has been exactly the same all the time. No aches with this one really, just the itching and painful sores. Thats why I am thinking I have HSV1/2. > Which test? The first one (culture) that came back negative? Or the > mid Feb blood test that you're still waiting on? The mid feb blood test that I am waiting on. What about using H-Balm? Is that any good for sores? Thanks, Tom >What I could do is get another >test by early april, but this could get expensive especially if i have to >pay for it myself. I suppose I will know how severe it is, if i have another >outbreak soon. A blood test isn't an indicator of future outbreak severity or frequency, if that's what you're thinking. The only way you'll know that is to just wait and see. >One thing I dont understand is that they said they tested me the first time >for IgM and IgG and both showed negative on the basic test I had, but that >was probably just at the 12 week mark and it wasnt a titer, so it didnt show >an accurate reading of the antibody level Now you've gotten ME confused. Maybe I need to go back again and re-read. Wasn't your first test a culture (swab)? ... not a blood test? A culture type test doesn't look for antibodies. It's done by taking a swab of an outbreak, and then they try to make something grow from it in the lab. Whatever grows is assumed to be the cause of the lesion. Might be herpes, might be something else. But whatever it is, definitely came from the lesion. If nothing grows, maybe there was nothing there to begin with or maybe it just didn't replicate and grow for some reason. Thus the high accuracy of positive results and the not so accurate negative results for culture type tests. And since a primary outbreak can happen much earlier than the 12 week mark, you don't need to wait that long for a culture type test. It can be accurate whenever the outbreak takes place. That may be as early as 3-4 days after infection. >What confuses me is that I thought as long as you test for IgM you'd show >antibodies and it could be sooner than 12 weeks from the date of exposure? I >figured only the IgG needed to be 12-16 weeks? Problem is, from what I've read, IgM results aren't very accurate. I wouldn't bother with 'em. Go with the IgG. They're much more accurate. Hopefully that's the type Herpeselect test you had and you should have those results soon. >What about using H-Balm? Is that any good for sores? That's something you'll have to try for yourself. I've heard it called snake oil and I've also read that it may help a little. I think it's probably like Lysine in that respect. Helps a few people but doesn't help others. Maybe somebody here has had personal experience with it. M2 > Now you've gotten ME confused. Maybe I need to go back again and > re-read. Wasn't your first test a culture (swab)? ... not a blood > test? No, I had a blood test the first time, but it was barely 12 weeks from date of infection and showed nothing on IgM but showed a borderline level of IgG antibodies, but not a true positive, so thats why I went to another doctor. It was probably a few things; not a good quality test, too soon, and not an actual titer. > Problem is, from what I've read, IgM results aren't very accurate. I > wouldn't bother with 'em. Go with the IgG. They're much more > accurate. Hopefully that's the type Herpeselect test you had and you > should have those results soon. The test that the doctor ordered is: HerpeSelect Type 1 and 2 Titer for Genital Herpes. I told him I had been having other symptoms for a while, so I don't know if this is a primary OB and the other symptoms (near the buttocks) were something else, or if I have two different herpes conditions going on at once. The titer that I just had will be almost 14 weeks from date of exposure. I was just beginning the severe outbreak symptoms (2 days prior) to when I went to get the blood drawn. Right now its been 3 weeks and I still have a very achy lower back area, slight headache, tiredness, muscle aches in the upper back, butt, thighs, and have on and off shooting pains down the leg or in the groin. The burning in the genital area and when I urinated went away. I didn't get that many blisters at all. I got 2 red blisters that lasted 4 days before drying up and one after that which lasted 2 days maybe. I had a few pimples on the inner thigh near the groin and butt, although these were only a little sore and didn't look like anything more than a pimple. Oh yes, I forgot to say that my inner thighs have been achy, and my testicles aching also a little but not as bad as before. This is really horrible! I know its not the flu, because I had a flu shot this past fall, because I have asthma and qualify for getting one. Thanks, Tom >No, I had a blood test the first time, Makes more sense now. >It was probably a few things; not a good quality test, too soon, and not an >actual titer. Probably >The test that the doctor ordered is: HerpeSelect Type 1 and 2 Titer for >Genital Herpes. There are two separate tests. One for IgM and one for IgG. An aside, you can also order an IgG test for just type 1 or just type 2 ... or both. You'll see which you got (IgM/IgG) when you get your results back. You may find a little more info on this site: http://www.healthcheckusa.com/ From the home page, click on "Tests we offer", then "Sexual Health". You'll see the several different tests and what they test for. According to their site, IgM is accurate. But according to one of the Gurus I follow, it's not very. Hopefully you'll get some definite answers soon. M2 > Hopefully you'll get some definite answers soon. > > M2 Thank you, I will keep you and everyone else posted. Tom |
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