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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / March 20053 oz of peanuts can boost estrogen levels the same as a woman on estrogen replacement therapy
Folks, it seems like I'm getting somewhere with these interesting findings; the greates triggers for herpes outbreaks: peanuts, cumin seeds, soya and even apples (at least in my case) seem to have something in common: they boost estrogen levels Perl von Molson " I am currently reading the book "Food-Your Miracle Medicine" and it states that eating a couple of apples everyday and 3 and a half ounces of peanuts can boost estrogen levels the same as a woman on estrogen replacement therapy.......could this really be possible?" http://www.power-surge.com/php/forums/index.php?s=7fa0975a07bc33645378101ef0262d 93&showtopic=5292&pid=69361&st=0&#entry69361 "I have read about so many "phytoestrogen" foods that it seems like most things can take credit. (Especially meat, but that's because they shoot cows up with synthetic hormones!) Anyway, I've read about the apples many, many times and they say it is due to all of the boron in them. I eat a lot of them, but they never made me feel better. I've read cashews have a lot more phytoestrogens than peanuts. But then, peanuts are actually legumes, not a nut, and beans in general have lots of phytoestrogens." there are more good points at the site I've posted in here Perl von Molson > Folks, it seems like I'm getting somewhere with these interesting > findings; the greates triggers for herpes outbreaks: peanuts, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > of peanuts can boost estrogen levels the same as a woman on estrogen > replacement therapy.......could this really be possible?" http://www.power-surge.com/php/forums/index.php?s=7fa0975a07bc33645378101ef0262d 93&showtopic=5292&pid=69361&st=0&#entry69361 >Folks, it seems like I'm getting somewhere with these interesting >findings; the greates triggers for herpes outbreaks: peanuts, >cumin seeds, soya and even apples (at least in my case) seem to have >something in common: >they boost estrogen levels Commonality is not causality, Perlie. Mike Soja > >Folks, it seems like I'm getting somewhere with these interesting > >findings; the greates triggers for herpes outbreaks: peanuts, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Mike Soja There is no smoke without fire, you know... Perl von Molson > Folks, it seems like I'm getting somewhere with these interesting > findings; the greates triggers for herpes outbreaks: peanuts, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Perl von Molson <snip> The arginine/lysine ratio in peanuts is a whopping 3.3 of course. > > Folks, it seems like I'm getting somewhere with these interesting > > findings; the greates triggers for herpes outbreaks: peanuts, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > The arginine/lysine ratio in peanuts is a whopping 3.3 of course. It sure is, a high ratio in peanuts. However, by taking lysine supplements does not guarantee the viral inactivation at al. What does it say? It says there are other factors involved. Maybe hormonal inbalance? Try this experiment: eat large ammounts of peanuts (100g a day) or chocolate and take 3x2000 mg of lysine a daily. I've found this statistics below and I did not find one regarding lysine content specifically for peanuts or other foods, only as a ratio format ar/lys here is arginine content for some foods, though: - wheat: 5% - cabbage: 6% - beef: 6% - eggs: 6% - soy: 8% - almonds: 12% - peanuts: 12% OK, so, in 100 g of peanuts there are 12 g of arginine and 3.63 g of lysine. (12/4 = 3.63) In order to compensate 8.37 g of arginine therefore you need to take 8370 g of lysine supplements that is very acceptable 3000 mg x 3 times daily, to prove that arginine is the most important factor in triggering outbreaks when eating peanuts or chocolate. Or even easier: try taking arginine supplements together with lysine supplements to compensate the former. How far can you go without a herpes outbreak? Perl von Molson >Try this experiment: eat large ammounts of peanuts (100g a day) or >chocolate and >take 3x2000 mg of lysine a daily. >I've found this statistics below and I did not find one regarding >lysine content specifically for peanuts or other foods, only as a ratio >format ar/lys >here is arginine content for some foods, though: >- wheat: 5% [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >- almonds: 12% >- peanuts: 12% >OK, so, in 100 g of peanuts there are 12 g of arginine and 3.63 g of >lysine. >(12/4 = 3.63) >In order to compensate 8.37 g of arginine therefore you need to take >8370 g of lysine supplements that is very acceptable 3000 mg x 3 times >daily, to prove that >arginine is the most important factor in triggering outbreaks when >eating peanuts or chocolate. Where is your information that lysine displaces arginine in a one to one ratio? Or that the body will automatically select lysine for its processes instead of arginine when an abundance of arginine is readily available? Or that an *individual* performing this kind of experiment can determine anything other than how easy it is to fool oneself about such things? Half the strategy in becoming aware of the *alleged* role of lysine and arginine in the herpes viral replication cycle is to *reduce* arginine intake. As tenuous as the supposed relationship is between arginine and lysine, one would common-sensibly expect that inducing EXTRA arginine into the body would make it that much more difficult to discern any sort of helpful pattern. Even the formal studies on such matters were rather equivocal in their findings, and they had common sense and a population of more than one working for them. Other than that, Perlie, as usual, you are <undefined amount>% correct. ps. Reckless adherence to any of Perlie's recommendations, past or present, could lead to unexpected results. And not "unexpected" in the good way, either. Mike > >Try this experiment: eat large ammounts of peanuts (100g a day) or > >chocolate and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > >(12/4 = 3.63) OK, my typo, 12/3.3 ~ 3.63 Sorry > >In order to compensate 8.37 g of arginine therefore you need to take > >8370 g of lysine supplements that is very acceptable 3000 mg x 3 times [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > instead of arginine when an abundance of arginine is readily > available? "Lysine, an analog of arginine, as an antimetabolite, antagonized the viral growth-promoting action of arginine" Is this clear enough, Mike? if not: an·tag·o·nize Audio pronunciation of "antagonize" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-tg-nz) tr.v. an·tag·o·nized, an·tag·o·niz·ing, an·tag·o·niz·es 1. To incur the dislike of; provoke hostility or enmity in: antagonized her officemates with her rude behavior. 2. To counteract. Main Entry: coun·ter·act Pronunciation: "kaunt-&-'rakt Function: transitive verb : to make ineffective or restrain or neutralize the usually ill effects of by an opposite force <the spontaneous physiological processes which counteract disease before medical science comes into play -Havelock Ellis> -coun·ter·ac·tion Relation of arginine-lysine antagonism to herpes simplex growth in tissue culture. Griffith RS, DeLong DC, Nelson JD. In the studies conducted, arginine deficiency suppressed herpes simplex virus replication in tissue culture. Lysine, an analog of arginine, as an antimetabolite, antagonized the viral growth-promoting action of arginine. The in vitro data may be the basis for the observation that patients prone to herpetic lesions and other related viral infections, particularly during periods of stress, should abstain from arginine excess and may also require supplemental lysine in their diet. PMID: 6262023 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt«stract &list_uidsb62023 > Or that an *individual* performing this kind of experiment can > determine anything other than how easy it is to fool oneself about > such things? You need someone to tutor you for everything, don't you, Mike? > Half the strategy in becoming aware of the *alleged* role of lysine > and arginine in the herpes viral replication cycle is to *reduce* > arginine intake. As tenuous as the supposed relationship is between > arginine and lysine, one would common-sensibly expect that inducing > EXTRA arginine into the body would make it that much more difficult > to discern any sort of helpful pattern. My focus is on what takes herpes out of the dormant state, rather then what would keep the viral shedding level close to zero. I have used all of my options in trying (and hoping it works) to get rid of the asymptomatic shedding, the remained problem is eventually the viruses that become reactivated from the dormant state in ganglia. Consider this for a minute, Mike! if, as you say, increased arginine intake would contribute to herpes virus up to a point of an outbreak, WHAT, IN THE FIRST PLACE, HAS CAUSED THOSE VIRIONS IN THE GANGLIA TO BECOME FULLY DEVELOPED VIRUSES WITH THEIR MULTIPLICATION CAPABILITY, LOCATED MOSTLY ON THE SHEDDING AREAS, (AFTER USING THE AXONAL TRANSPORT MECHANISM)? DON'T TELL ME THAT THE VIRIONS WERE USING ARGININE INSIDE THE GANGLIA! NO! THE ONLY WAY ARGININE AFFECTS THE HERPES GROWTH IS ONCE ALREADY THE VIRUS IS SHEDDING. BEFORE THAT, THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD TAKE THE VIRUS FROM THE DORMANT STATE. I SUSPECT MAYBE HORMONAL IMBALANCE IN OUR BODY WOULD POSSIBLY CAUSE SUCH A TRIGGER. Even the formal studies on > such matters were rather equivocal in their findings, and they had > common sense and a population of more than one working for them. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ps. Reckless adherence to any of Perlie's recommendations, past or > present, I only suggest, I do not recommend. could lead to unexpected results. And not "unexpected" in > the good way, either. Either way, the results are a good thing. Perl von Molson > Mike >> Where is your information that lysine displaces arginine in a one to >> one ratio? >> Or that the body will automatically select lysine for its processes >> instead of arginine when an abundance of arginine is readily >> available? >"Lysine, an analog of arginine, as an antimetabolite, antagonized the >viral growth-promoting action of arginine" >Is this clear enough, Mike? Not exactly, Perlie. See further below. >if not: >an·tag·o·nize Audio pronunciation of "antagonize" ( P ) >Pronunciation Key (n-tg-nz) >tr.v. an·tag·o·nized, an·tag·o·niz·ing, an·tag·o·niz·es > 2. To counteract. >Main Entry: coun·ter·act >Pronunciation: "kaunt-&-'rakt [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >counteract disease before medical science comes into play -Havelock >Ellis> -coun·ter·ac·tion >Relation of arginine-lysine antagonism to herpes simplex growth in >tissue culture. >Griffith RS, DeLong DC, Nelson JD. >In the studies conducted, arginine deficiency suppressed herpes simplex >virus replication in tissue culture. Lysine, an analog of arginine, as [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >particularly during periods of stress, should abstain from arginine >excess and may also require supplemental lysine in their diet. >PMID: 6262023 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=6262023 It's hard to tell just from the short abstract, but the authors do speak in the context of an "arginine deficiency". They also report "in vitro" data instead of "in vivo". I see nothing in there establishing that lysine "antagonizes" against arginine on one a one to one basis. And there are still those old studies which couldn't award L-lysine any more of remedial factor but in about 30% of cases, which doesn't speak very highly of that alleged antagonizing factor. I do like your new word, though. I doubt that I'll get much chance to use it in the medical sense, but I like it, anyway. >> Or that an *individual* performing this kind of experiment can >> determine anything other than how easy it is to fool oneself about >> such things? >You need someone to tutor you for everything, don't you, Mike? I don't need to be tutored on how to eat Big Macs and drink Cherry Coke®!!! (as it so happened - "as it was meant to happen" - I ended up, quite by accident, with a can of Diet Cherry Coke in my hand last night. It was delish. It antagonized my blues away. ;-) >> Half the strategy in becoming aware of the *alleged* role of lysine >> and arginine in the herpes viral replication cycle is to *reduce* >> arginine intake. As tenuous as the supposed relationship is between >> arginine and lysine, one would common-sensibly expect that inducing >> EXTRA arginine into the body would make it that much more difficult >> to discern any sort of helpful pattern. >My focus is on what takes herpes out of the dormant state, rather then >what would keep the viral shedding level close to zero. >I have used all of my options in trying (and hoping it works) >to get rid of the asymptomatic shedding, the remained problem is >eventually >the viruses that become reactivated from the dormant state in ganglia. >Consider this for a minute, Mike! >if, as you say, increased arginine intake would contribute to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >LOCATED MOSTLY ON THE SHEDDING AREAS, (AFTER USING THE AXONAL TRANSPORT >MECHANISM)? That's the two dollar question, Perlie, but I would suppose that the same system that delivers the oxygen and other building blocks to all cells, delivers something useful to the HSV virus when it drops off whatever the neuron needs to maintain its health. I don't think anyone has ever suggested that arginine is the sole agent fueling the HSV replicatin' cycle. >DON'T TELL ME THAT THE VIRIONS WERE USING ARGININE INSIDE THE GANGLIA! >NO! >THE ONLY WAY ARGININE AFFECTS THE HERPES GROWTH IS ONCE ALREADY THE >VIRUS IS SHEDDING. If you say so, Big P. And I'm sure that arginine isn't the only item in the body's vast store to be grabbed up and put to use. Arginine is just one of the very few things that the human host can regulate (very slightly) by being careful of what it eats. >BEFORE THAT, THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD TAKE THE VIRUS FROM THE >DORMANT STATE. Yes, YES! There might even be more than one SOMETHING ELSE. There might be a very complicated, involved trigger mechanism. >I SUSPECT MAYBE HORMONAL IMBALANCE IN OUR BODY WOULD POSSIBLY CAUSE >SUCH A TRIGGER. There ya go. You've almost found your cure again. I'm very proud of you, Perlie. >>Even the formal studies on >> such matters were rather equivocal in their findings, and they had >> common sense and a population of more than one working for them. >> Other than that, Perlie, as usual, you are <undefined amount>% >> correct. >> ps. Reckless adherence to any of Perlie's recommendations, past or >> present, >I only suggest, I do not recommend. I'll try to remember that. > could lead to unexpected results. And not "unexpected" in >> the good way, either. >Either way, the results are a good thing. Mike msoja9@newsguy.com wrote: > Not exactly, Perlie. See further below. > It's hard to tell just from the short abstract, but the authors do [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > I'll try to remember that. > Mike Thank you steve692884@duskmail.com >Or even easier: try taking arginine supplements together with lysine >supplements to compensate the former. How far can you go without a >herpes outbreak? > >Perl von Molson Your thoughts are flawed, I believe. I haven't had an outbreak in a very long time. I've been eating chocolate like it's going out of style but still eating my healthy diet and exercising. No lysine supplements needed. My opinion is that you forget that each body is different. And you will not be able to isolate just one thing that will cease herpes outbreaks. Forget that one "magic bullet" and concentrate on the body as a whole. The entire body is a working mechanism. The healthier the body as a whole, the better chance it will have to fight off outbreaks. ar > >Or even easier: try taking arginine supplements together with lysine > >supplements to compensate the former. How far can you go without a [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > ar Sure, I can look at the body as the whole, no problem with that, is just, that, identifying the correct mechanisms of trigger, all the factors involved, would make the greatest difference in dealing with the problem. Of course, noone knows so far, what specifically is the main factor or set of factors that takes the traces of virions out of the dormant state in the ganglia and transports them to the shedding areas. It may be a simple type of hormon that may be causing it. Who knows? It's a medical mistery nonetheless. Perl von Molson |
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