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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / December 2004

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Gluten

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Perl Molson - 08 Dec 2004 02:06 GMT
----- Original Message -----
From: "M.L.S." <msoja9@newsguy.com>
Newsgroups: alt.support.herpes
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: Gluten

> On 4 Dec 2004 23:01:43 -0800, beatadje@email.com posted:
>
> >drew wrote:
>
> >I read one of his posts
> >> where he flatly denies any connection between yeast infections and
> >> herpes outbreaks.  After a lot of women corrected him he admitted
> >> that, being a man, he didn't know anything about yeast infections.
> >He
> >> apparently didn't even know that men can get yeast infections also.
>
> >I don't know if I can make a direct association, but
> >check this out:
> >an article about High Yield Protein Production from Pichia pastoris
> >Yeast:
> >http://www.nbsc.com/papers/ABL_pichia.htm
> >and more exact:
> >High level expression and secretion of truncated forms of herpes
> >simplex virus type 1 and type 2 glycoprotein D by the methylotrophic
> >yeast Pichia pastoris.
>
> >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1
2182819&dopt=Abstract

>
> Well, Perlie, you managed to find a couple articles with both the
> words "herpes" and "yeast" in them, but, as we've come to so readily
> expect from you, they have nothing to do with the subject at hand.
>
> That scientists are *genetically modifying* certain strains of yeast
> to act as little protein-factories in the production of substances
> that might be useful in fighting against any number of diseases is
> not evidence of a relationship between HSV and yeast per se.
>
> Though, no doubt li'l Drew will soon pipe up and say that because we
> don't know it must be true.  Or maybe he'll just make something up.
>
> Mike

Well, it is obvious that yeast can provide proteins for the growth
of the herpes virus.
Why then, the infection with yeast would not do the same thing
for what the herpes genital infection is concerned?

Who know, maybe yeast feeds the herpes viruses more then arginine...

Perl von Molson
M.L.S. - 08 Dec 2004 02:37 GMT
>From: "M.L.S." <msoja9@newsguy.com>

>> >High level expression and secretion of truncated forms of herpes
>> >simplex virus type 1 and type 2 glycoprotein D by the methylotrophic
>> >yeast Pichia pastoris.

>> >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1
2182819&dopt=Abstract

>> Well, Perlie, you managed to find a couple articles with both the
>> words "herpes" and "yeast" in them, but, as we've come to so readily
>> expect from you, they have nothing to do with the subject at hand.

>> That scientists are *genetically modifying* certain strains of yeast
>> to act as little protein-factories in the production of substances
>> that might be useful in fighting against any number of diseases is
>> not evidence of a relationship between HSV and yeast per se.

>> Though, no doubt li'l Drew will soon pipe up and say that because we
>> don't know it must be true.  Or maybe he'll just make something up.

>Well, it is obvious that yeast can provide proteins for the growth
>of the herpes virus.

Yeah, all you have to do is clone the "DNA sequences" of the
relevant proteins and amino acids "into the P. pastoris yeast
expression vector pPIC9."  In other words, you have to graft the
proper manufacturing instructions onto the yeast machinery.  Why?
Because they didn't exist there before.

>Why then, the infection with yeast would not do the same thing
>for what the herpes genital infection is concerned?

For the same reason that water flowing down from the hills didn't
just spontaneously bubble and burble into hydroelectric generating
plants.

>Who know, maybe yeast feeds the herpes viruses more then arginine...

Your "Who know" is not informed by anything, Perlie, as usual.

Mike
janedoe - 08 Dec 2004 03:47 GMT
if you read (with comprehension)the 2nd paper, that particular yeast

1. is a commercially/academically available expression system yeast. It is
to the protiens of interest what a copying machine is to copies
(oversimplified, but I'm already wasting too much energy in clarifying the
previous post)

2. is not the genus nor species that is the cause of your basic yeast
infections, unless you happen to be a very specific type of western oak,
in which case you are this yeast's natural host... but then, your chances
of getting herpes as an oak tree (which I'll probably need to remind you
that they have no mammalian nerve cells), are, well, I'll let you figure
it out.

Based on the logic of the previous post, perhaps you should give the
following a shot:

Gluten is a carbohydrate. Carbohydrates provide fuel. My car needs fuel.
They sell gluten at the store. I think I will go buy some and put it in my
gas tank.
beatadje@email.com - 08 Dec 2004 09:11 GMT
> if you read (with comprehension)the 2nd paper, that particular yeast
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> that they have no mammalian nerve cells), are, well, I'll let you figure
> it out.

Is the human infecting yeast able to produce high yield protein as
the mentioned yeast can do?
So far I did not came across any articles to talk about these things
but the simple association of names made me give it a go and try
to find such articles. I hope that will clarify the issues.

My intuition has promted me to pressume that
a yeast, even if it is a "very specific type of western oak yeast"
may, eventually have certain characteristic as the human infecting
yeast.
That's all; and I don't necessarily want to make a big deal out of it.

Perl von Molson

> Based on the logic of the previous post, perhaps you should give the
> following a shot:
>
> Gluten is a carbohydrate. Carbohydrates provide fuel. My car needs fuel.
> They sell gluten at the store. I think I will go buy some and put it in my
> gas tank.
beatadje@email.com - 08 Dec 2004 09:25 GMT
Yeast Ribosomal Protein L12 Is a Substrate of Protein-arginine
Methyltransferase 2*

Type III protein-arginine methyltransferase from the yeast
Saccharomyces cerevisiae (RMT2) was expressed in Escherichia coli and
purified to apparent homogeneity. The cytosolic, ribosomal, and
ribosome salt wash fractions from yeast cells lacking RMT2 were used as
substrates for the recombinant RMT2. Using S-adenosyl-L-methionine as
co-substrate, RMT2 methylated a protein in the ribosome salt wash
fraction. The same protein in the ribosomal fraction was also
methylated by RMT2 after pretreating the sample with endonuclease.
Amino acid analysis affirmed that the labeling products were
-N-monomethylarginines. The methylated protein from the ribosomal or
the ribosome salt wash fraction was isolated by two-dimensional gel
electrophoresis and identified as ribosomal protein L12 by mass
spectrometry. Using synthetic peptides, recombinant L12, and its mutant
as substrates, we pinpointed Arg67 on ribosomal protein L12 as the
methyl acceptor. L12 was isolated from wild type yeast cells that have
been grown in the presence of S-adenosyl-L-[methyl-3H]methionine and
subjected to amino acid analysis. The results indicate that L12
contains -N-monomethylarginines.

INTRODUCTION
TOP
ABSTRACT
INTRODUCTION
EXPERIMENTAL PROCEDURES
RESULTS AND DISCUSSION
REFERENCES

Proteins can have a large variety of post-translational modifications,
including the N-methylation of the arginine side chains. The process
involves the transfer of methyl group from S-adenosyl-L-methionine
(AdoMet)1 to the guanidino nitrogen atoms of arginine with
protein-arginine N-methyltransferases (PRMTs) (1). There are at least
three types of PRMTs (2). The type I PRMTs mediate the formation of
-NG-monomethylarginine and asymmetric -NG,NG-dimethylarginine. The type
II enzymes have the symmetric -NG,NG'-dimethylarginine in addition to
the -NG'-monomethylarginine as products (see Ref. 1 for a review).
Recently, a type III PRMT was discovered in yeast (3). This enzyme
catalyzes the monomethylation of the -guanidino nitrogen of arginine
side chains.

At least five complete genes have been reported for the type I PRMTs.
They are the PRMT1 from rat and human, the protein-arginine
methyltransferase 1 from Saccharomyces cerevisiae (RMT1), the PRMT3
from rat, and the mouse coactivator-associated arginine
methyltransferase 1/PRMT4. The genes of human PRMT1 (4), rat PRMT1 (5),
PRMT3 (6), and coactivator-associated arginine methyltransferase
1/PRMT4 (7) were isolated in two-hybrid screening experiments by
interacting with type 1 interferon receptor, the immediate early
protein, rat PRMT1, and the hormone receptor coactivator, respectively.
The yeast RMT1 was identified independently by homology searches of the
yeast genomic data base (1) or genetic screening of proteins that
interact with Npl3p, a poly(A)+-RNA-binding protein (8). These enzymes
methylate proteins with an Arg-Gly-Gly-rich (9) or Arg-Xaa-Arg-rich
(10) region. In vitro experiments have shown that heterogeneous nuclear
ribonucleoprotein A1 (5), fibrillarin (6), histone H3 (7), Npl3p (8),
and poly(A)-binding protein II (10) can be methylated by these type I
PRMTs. However, only Npl3p has been shown to be the in vivo substrate
of RMT1 (8).

A putative human type II PRMT, Jak-binding protein 1/PRMT5 (11, 12),
and its yeast homologue (Hsl7p) (13) were recently identified.
Jak-binding protein 1/PRMT5 was found interacting with Janus kinase 2
(Jak2) (11) and the nonstructural protein 3 (NS3) of hepatitis C virus
(12). It has been shown that Jak-binding protein 1/PRMT5 can utilize
myelin basic protein, histones H2A and H4, and interestingly, a
glutathione S-transferase fibrillarin glycine- and arginine-rich domain
fusion protein (GST-GAR) as substrates. GST-GAR has been routinely used
in the assay of type I PRMTs (2, 6).

In addition to the PRMTs mentioned above, there are two other clones
that code for arginine methyltransferases. The human PRMT2 (HRMT1L1)
has 60% amino acid sequence similarity with the yeast RMT1 protein
(14). However, the recombinant GST-PRMT2 fusion protein does not show
any enzymatic activity with GST-GAR, myelin basic protein, or cytosolic
extracts from a yeast rmt1 deletion strain as substrates (1). Lately,
the heterogeneous nuclear ribonucleoprotein E1B-AP5 has been suggested
as the in vivo substrate of PRMT2 (15).

Recently, Zobel-Thropp et al. (3) identified the presence of
-N-monomethylarginine in the yeast cell lysate. Furthermore,
Niewmierzycka and Clarke (16) demonstrated that the gene product of
YDR465c, RMT2, is responsible for the formation of the
-N-monomethylarginines. RMT2 is a protein of 412 amino acid residues,
including the initiator methionine. It shares 23 and 22% sequence
identity with yeast RMT1 and the rat PRMT1, respectively. Noticeably,
the protein contains the sequence motif (GXGXG) conserved in
S-adenosyl-L-methionine-dependent methyltransferases (16). However, the
substrate(s) for RMT2 has not been identified in either in vivo or in
vitro labeling experiments.

We report here that ribosomal protein L12 from the YDR465c disruption
mutant (RMT2) can be specifically labeled by recombinant RMT2
heterologously expressed in Escherichia coli. We affirm that the
reaction product is -N-monomethylarginine. We demonstrate with
synthetic peptides, recombinant L12, and its mutant that Arg67 on
ribosomal protein L12 is the methyl acceptor of RMT2. Furthermore, L12
isolated from wild type yeast strain contains -N-monomethylarginine.

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/full/277/18/15345

> > if you read (with comprehension)the 2nd paper, that particular yeast
> >
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> in my
> > gas tank.
M.L.S. - 09 Dec 2004 01:20 GMT
>Yeast Ribosomal Protein L12 Is a Substrate of Protein-arginine
>Methyltransferase 2*

>Type III protein-arginine methyltransferase from the yeast
>Saccharomyces cerevisiae (RMT2) was expressed in Escherichia coli and

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT.

Wrong kinda yeast, Perlie.

And I'm sorry, but after three years and still no points on the
board, you'll have to sit out Final Jeopardy.  Better luck next
time.

Mike
janedoe - 09 Dec 2004 03:16 GMT
THREE YEARS!?!?!?!

association & intuition:

beer has yeast, yeast causes infections, don't drink beer
bread has yeast.....you get the picture.
beatadje@email.com - 09 Dec 2004 06:00 GMT
> >Yeast Ribosomal Protein L12 Is a Substrate of Protein-arginine
> >Methyltransferase 2*
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Mike

OK whatever you say, Mike. At least I tried. Drew, though, has
all the reasons to ask himself about the connection between
herpes and yeast.

Until proven the contrary, maybe yeast together with herpes
can contribute to a cronic type of herpes genital infection.
Perl von Molson
M.L.S. - 09 Dec 2004 14:38 GMT
>OK whatever you say, Mike. At least I tried. Drew, though, has
>all the reasons to ask himself about the connection between
>herpes and yeast.

>Until proven the contrary, maybe yeast together with herpes
>can contribute to a cronic type of herpes genital infection.

Herpes already *is* a chronic infection, without help from anything
else.

I think you, Perlie, and possibly Drew, are missing a major
distinction in all this.  No one is saying that yeast can't play
some role in causing or aggravating herpes outbreaks, just that
there isn't some hidden, mysterious symbiotic relationship between
the relatively giant yeast organisms and the little sub-microscopic
herpes viruses.

If one suspects that yeast is a factor in one's outbreaks then one
should seek medical help in reducing the size and vigor of one's
yeast colonies, and while that may concurrently reduce the number or
severity of one's herpes outbreaks, one should not fall under the
belief that one has eliminated the herpes virus from one's body.
Nor should one believe that by addressing one's yeast colonies that
the risk of spreading HSV is eliminated.

By all means, people who believe they are getting herpes outbreaks
every time they get a yeast infection should assume that there is a
relationship there, and take steps to address it, as in:  Treat the
yeast infection.  They should not assume that by curing the yeast
infection that they are curing themselves of herpes.

Normally, none of that would need to be said, but Perlie seems to
have defined a new lowest denominator that now needs to be accounted
for.

Mike
beatadje@email.com - 11 Dec 2004 20:17 GMT
> >OK whatever you say, Mike. At least I tried. Drew, though, has
> >all the reasons to ask himself about the connection between
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Herpes already *is* a chronic infection, without help from anything
> else.

Considering most people are infected with herpes and
only a small percentage have chronic infections or persistent
reccurent infections, there is a great deal of factors
being involved in here for the later cathegories of folks.
Either if its the liver, bile, intestine of other factors
not able to disintoxify the body or some type of
external contributor to the chronic infection, such as
some form of yeast or bacterial infection
or some hormonal imbalance, there must be a
line of factors that make this difference.

> I think you, Perlie, and possibly Drew, are missing a major
> distinction in all this.  No one is saying that yeast can't play
> some role in causing or aggravating herpes outbreaks, just that
> there isn't some hidden, mysterious symbiotic relationship between
> the relatively giant yeast organisms and the little sub-microscopic
> herpes viruses.

It may not be a direct yeast-viral symbiotic relationship as you call
it,
maybe it is a hormonal imbalance or such invonved as an adiacent
cofactor.

> If one suspects that yeast is a factor in one's outbreaks then one
> should seek medical help in reducing the size and vigor of one's
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Nor should one believe that by addressing one's yeast colonies that
> the risk of spreading HSV is eliminated.

Of course once the yeast is dealt with, the spreading of HSV is not
necessarily
eliminated as per your own example, but as I've said, the imbalance
in our body whether hormonal or of other nature might be the cause of
the
persistant, chronic infection with a virus.

> By all means, people who believe they are getting herpes outbreaks
> every time they get a yeast infection should assume that there is a
> relationship there, and take steps to address it, as in:  Treat the
> yeast infection.  They should not assume that by curing the yeast
> infection that they are curing themselves of herpes.

same as above

Perl von Molson

> Normally, none of that would need to be said, but Perlie seems to
> have defined a new lowest denominator that now needs to be accounted
> for.
>
> Mike
M.L.S. - 09 Dec 2004 01:17 GMT
>Is the human infecting yeast able to produce high yield protein as
>the mentioned yeast can do?

Nope.

>So far I did not came across any articles to talk about these things
>but the simple association of names made me give it a go and try
>to find such articles. I hope that will clarify the issues.

>My intuition has promted me to pressume that
>a yeast, even if it is a "very specific type of western oak yeast"
>may, eventually have certain characteristic as the human infecting
>yeast.
>That's all; and I don't necessarily want to make a big deal out of it.

There's about twelve things wrong with your "theory", Perlie, but
the most important one is:  Even IF the kind of yeast that is
responsible for human yeast infections makes all of everything that
the human herpes virus could ever want and need and use (note to the
gullible: it doesn't) ...

                    SO

                              WHAT

                                 ?

Go buy yourself some Monistat.

If the friction of sex is a trigger for your outbreaks, Perlie, do
you theorize an imbalance in the Yin/Yang Duality of Your
Seventeenth Chakra tied to the quantum signature on the HSV protein
envelope (oops, I mean, most people), or do you go buy some lube?

If the summer sun is a trigger for your outbreaks do you dream of
spaceships hiding in its glare and manipulating you through the HSV
virus, or do you wear a hat and get some good sunblock?

If eating peanuts triggers outbreaks do you start to wonder if maybe
the vegetable kingdom isn't really sanguine about your giving up the
mad cow patties?  Or do you just lay off the peanuts?

The point is, Perlie, the herpes virus operates quite well in people
who don't have problems with yeast, so it is very unlikely that
yeast plays anything other than one of those chance off-stage roles
that are advantageous to the HSV virus.  

You have as much a chance at finding your cure for herpes by
studying yeast, as you would have by studying sunlight, or peanuts,
or the friction of sex.

Mike
M.L.S. - 09 Dec 2004 00:49 GMT
>if you read (with comprehension)the 2nd paper, that particular yeast

>1. is a commercially/academically available expression system yeast. It is
>to the protiens of interest what a copying machine is to copies
>(oversimplified, but I'm already wasting too much energy in clarifying the
>previous post)

>2. is not the genus nor species that is the cause of your basic yeast
>infections, unless you happen to be a very specific type of western oak,

Well, you may be onto something there.  If western oak is like other
oak, it is a very *dense* wood.  And you could talk to it all day
long and it wouldn't understand a word.

I'm just saying...

>in which case you are this yeast's natural host... but then, your chances
>of getting herpes as an oak tree (which I'll probably need to remind you
>that they have no mammalian nerve cells), are, well, I'll let you figure
>it out.

>Based on the logic of the previous post, perhaps you should give the
>following a shot:

>Gluten is a carbohydrate. Carbohydrates provide fuel. My car needs fuel.
>They sell gluten at the store. I think I will go buy some and put it in my
>gas tank.

I just had a big bowl of pasta (cooked).

I hope it had at least a token amount of gluten in it.

Take care,

Mike
janedoe - 09 Dec 2004 03:29 GMT
beatadje@email.com - 20 Dec 2004 00:44 GMT
> >if you read (with comprehension)the 2nd paper, that particular yeast

> >1. is a commercially/academically available expression system yeast. It is
> >to the protiens of interest what a copying machine is to copies
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Mike

his information is an extract from
Gluten-free Cookery. The Complete Guide for Gluten-free or Wheat-free
Diets

By Peter Thomson.

Published by Headway, Hodder Headline. 1995

This information is intended for educational purposes only. It is not
medical advice.If you think you need medical advice consult a doctor.
Many of the contributors are not health care professionals.

A gluten free or wheat free diet is essential for health for many
people.
It is not a diet that can be given up or forgotten about for a short
time.

What you can eat on a gluten-free or wheat-free diet

all cooking oils and fats
all dried fruit
all dried peas and beans
all fresh fruit and vegetables
all fresh meat and fish
all herbs
all pure spices
agar
ground almonds
arrow root
bicarbonate of soda
buckwheat flour
butter
carob flour
tinned unsweetened chestnut pureÉ
cheese
corn meal (maize)
cornflour (maize)
cream of tartar.
dried banana chips
eggs
flaked millet
flaked rice
ground and chopped nuts
lentils
maize and maize flour
milk
millet
pea flour
potato
polenta
pure rice noodles
quinnoa grain
rice
rice flour
ground rice
rice puffed cereal
sago flour
sesame seed
sorghum flour
sweet chestnut flour
tapioca flour
teff flour
tofu- soya curd
wild rice
yogurt ( except with cereal flavour)
yam flour
But note; soya products and buckwheat are often
indigestible
for people on wheat-free diets.

Black List:

Food ingredients to avoid. What you must not eat.

Wheat:
grain containing high levels of gluten.
Bulgar:
soaked and dried wheat.
Durum:
a type of wheat.
Strong flour, bread flour, brown flour, wholemeal flour, granary flour:
all made from wheat.
Oats:
contains some protein similar to wheat gluten but may not cause
problems for all celiacs. Best avoided.
Barley:
contains some protein similar to wheat gluten.
Rye:
contains some protein similar to wheat gluten.
Triticale:
contains some protein similar to wheat gluten.
Spelt:
contains some protein similar to wheat gluten.
Semolina:
made from wheat.
Couscous:
made from wheat.
Pasta, macaroni, spaghetti:
made from wheat.
Baking powder:
may contain wheat flour.
Stock cubes and gravy cubes:
may contain wheat flour.
Mustard powder:
may contain wheat flour.
Soy sauce:
this is normally soya beans fermented with wheat flour.
Suet in packets:
may contain wheat flour to stop the suet sticking together.
Starch, Vegetable starch:
may be wheat starch.
Beer, stout, lager, wheat germ, vitamin E pills:
all made from wheat.
BEWARE,
Some brands of 'rice paper' are made using wheat flour.
BEWARE.
Sauce mixes, curry mixes, ice cream, packet and tinned soups,
dried
meals, gravy mixes, all may contain wheat flour, and do not
always declare it on the contents list!
BEWARE.
Some cloudy lemonade and ginger beer now contain wheat flour
BEWARE.
Some sweets are dusted with wheat flour to prevent them sticking.

Perl von Molson

P.S. Don't forget: adding poowder cardamom to any of these "Black list"
items should do it.
M.L.S. - 20 Dec 2004 01:41 GMT
>his information is an extract from
>Gluten-free Cookery.

Did you run out of Junk Herpes Science, Perlie, and now have to play
the jerk by posting gluten miscellany?

Mike
 
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