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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / August 2004Questions, concerns, and much confusion.
Hello, I have been lurking on the Google alt.herpes newsgroup for a few months now and I was hoping that you all could answer some of my questions. I have been experiencing herpes syptoms (swollen glands, tingling, cold sores, strange pains, excessive sweating and hot flashes, genital itching, etc...), but my recent Western Blot came back negative. My Doctor does not think that I have herpes, despite me telling him that my wife had what looked like an initial outbreak (ring of painful blisters on her buttocks) about a year ago. I noticed that this is a common complaint in the newsgroup and I plan to get tested again at a different lab/medical facility. I was surprised at the negative test result. Do you have any suggestions for when and what test to take? My wife never went to the Dr. for what appeared to be an initial outbreak, and she has experienced other symptoms. I think that I am the source of the infection, but after reading FAQs, medical articles, and books, I am even more confused abut all of this. I did not suspect herpes until my wife showed me the blisters/sore on her buttocks and I got a sore throat after giving oral sex (to her). I started getting outbreaks on my face around my mouth and on my forehead which did not respond to topical ointments (calamine, cortisone, etc.). I am past the point of trying to figure out who gave to whom and when, but I want to manage this better and learn the signs and triggers of my outbreaks. 1) Is it possible for me to have contracted herpes genitally, given it to my wife, and then gotten an oral HSV re-infection from her? I have had pain in my groin and a hair bump like spot (swollen lymph node/gland??) that corresponds to the spot on my wife's buttocks, but I don't remember which came first. 2) If I have both genital and oral infections would the recurrences happen at the same time or at different times like they seem to do for me? 3) I am concerned that I have the infection in my eyes (right eye bothers me more, itching, discharge, wierd pains). I have seen a Gen. Practitioner (diagnosed conjuntivitis), and optometrist for an eye exam (diagnosed seasonal allergic conjunctivitis), and an opthamologist (who diagnosed chronic blepharitis) and my eyes are still problematic. Is there a specific test I can ask an opthamolgist to perform to determine if this is true? 4) I have been taking lysine, 1000mg, once daily, at the 1st sign of an outbreak (tingling or cold sores), but I have seen recommendations to do this 3 times a day. Should I be taking more or is this a trial and error situation that I will have to figure out? 5) How does oral infection affect the tongue? I have what feels like a cut on my tongue at times, dry mouth, a reddish spot (same spot every time) on the side, and it just feels/looks wierd. My Dr. said it looked normal and I probably bit my tongue or cut it eating a piece of candy or something (no help whatsoever). Any information that you can provide would be helpful. Your website and posts have already helped me to understand some of what is happening to me and what you do is greatly appreciated. Thanks >Hello, > I have been lurking on the Google alt.herpes newsgroup for a few >months now and I was hoping that you all could answer some of my >questions. > I have been experiencing herpes syptoms (swollen glands, tingling, >cold sores, strange pains, excessive sweating and hot flashes, genital [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >different lab/medical facility. I was surprised at the negative test >result. Do you have any suggestions for when and what test to take? The Western Blot is about the best test there is, but there is a one or two percent chance that it could give a false negative. Taking it again, or one of the other (HerpeSelect, for instance) tests should either confirm or contradict the initial results. If you're suffering outbreaks, of course, the best thing to do is immediately go in for a swab and a culture. A positive there is very reliable, but a negative is still not conclusive. > My wife never went to the Dr. for what appeared to be an initial >outbreak, and she has experienced other symptoms. I think that I am [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >want to manage this better and learn the signs and triggers of my >outbreaks. >1) Is it possible for me to have contracted herpes genitally, given it >to my wife, and then gotten an oral HSV re-infection from her? I have >had pain in my groin and a hair bump like spot (swollen lymph >node/gland??) that corresponds to the spot on my wife's buttocks, but >I don't remember which came first. It's possible, but probably not as easy as it sounds. It's possible your wife has had herpes for some time, and that it just recently expressed itself. >2) If I have both genital and oral infections would the recurrences >happen at the same time or at different times like they seem to do for >me? They wouldn't necessarily be synchronized. >3) I am concerned that I have the infection in my eyes (right eye >bothers me more, itching, discharge, wierd pains). I have seen a Gen. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >still problematic. Is there a specific test I can ask an opthamolgist >to perform to determine if this is true? I'm not familiar with eye infections, but if you've mentioned herpes to all those people and they've discounted it, I would tend to believe them. >4) I have been taking lysine, 1000mg, once daily, at the 1st sign of >an outbreak (tingling or cold sores), but I have seen recommendations >to do this 3 times a day. Should I be taking more or is this a trial >and error situation that I will have to figure out? The efficacy of Lysine is much debated. The few studies that have been done gave mixed results. The optimistic view is that Lysine will only marginally help about 30% of people who take it. You can either try 2000 or 3000 mg, or, better yet, talk to your Doc about a prescription to Valtrex or Acyclovir (the latter being cheaper). If anything will do the job for you, they will. >5) How does oral infection affect the tongue? I have what feels like a >cut on my tongue at times, dry mouth, a reddish spot (same spot every >time) on the side, and it just feels/looks wierd. My Dr. said it >looked normal and I probably bit my tongue or cut it eating a piece of >candy or something (no help whatsoever). On the tongue is fairly rare. > Any information that you can provide would be helpful. Your website >and posts have already helped me to understand some of what is >happening to me and what you do is greatly appreciated. >Thanks I'm afraid I'm not that much help, but maybe. Take care, Mike Well, you've got some confusing things happening here. First of all, if you have cold sores then you have herpes. Period. No questions asked. Cold sores are generally type 1. You say you had a Western Blot...really? It's the most reliable test. The only thing that would give you a negative is if you were tested too early in the infection to have built up enough antibodies to be measured. You should wait until 12 to 16 weeks have passed since the first outbreak. I strongly suggest having a culture run on one of these cold sores that you say you have. The culture would need to be done immediately upon the start of an outbreak. So, prearrange this with your doctor. What does your doctor think you have? If you had the Western Blot test run, then there is only one lab in the USA that runs it and only one lab in Canada that runs it. Do you have a copy of your test results? Call the doctor and get a copy of your test results and tell us exactly what kind of test was run. "Sam Sebya" <anathema04@hotmail.com> wrote in message > 1) Is it possible for me to have contracted herpes genitally, given it > to my wife, and then gotten an oral HSV re-infection from her? I have > had pain in my groin and a hair bump like spot (swollen lymph > node/gland??) that corresponds to the spot on my wife's buttocks, but > I don't remember which came first. Have you and your wife been faithful to each other? I always hate to ask that question, but you need to know the answer to that question to find the answer to your question above. You have to get herpes from somewhere. It just doesn't manifest itself. It is possible to have had it for many years and never shown symptoms, though. It is possible to get both a genital and oral infection but usually that happens within the first year of having herpes. After that time, the body is pretty good at taking care of itself and infecting another part of the body becomes difficult. > 2) If I have both genital and oral infections would the recurrences > happen at the same time or at different times like they seem to do for > me? It really depends on the person. > 3) I am concerned that I have the infection in my eyes (right eye > bothers me more, itching, discharge, wierd pains). I have seen a Gen. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > still problematic. Is there a specific test I can ask an opthamolgist > to perform to determine if this is true? You need to find an opthamologist that specializes in herpes infections. > 4) I have been taking lysine, 1000mg, once daily, at the 1st sign of > an outbreak (tingling or cold sores), but I have seen recommendations > to do this 3 times a day. Should I be taking more or is this a trial > and error situation that I will have to figure out? I don't know. > 5) How does oral infection affect the tongue? I have what feels like a > cut on my tongue at times, dry mouth, a reddish spot (same spot every > time) on the side, and it just feels/looks wierd. My Dr. said it > looked normal and I probably bit my tongue or cut it eating a piece of > candy or something (no help whatsoever). Generally, oral infections are on the outside of the mouth - on the corner or edge of the lips. Is your doctor even concerned at all about another type of viral or bacterian infection? ar > Well, you've got some confusing things happening here. First of all, if > you have cold sores then you have herpes. Period. No questions asked. Yes, but he could not really be getting coldsores. A lot of people mistake pimples, and skin damged (like biting your cheek) as coldsores. I said "if," Pain. ar > > Well, you've got some confusing things happening here. First of all, if > > you have cold sores then you have herpes. Period. No questions asked. > > Yes, but he could not really be getting coldsores. A lot of people mistake > pimples, and skin damged (like biting your cheek) as coldsores. I know, I was just pointing out the "IF" part... just to make sure. It's so common for people to mistake pimples and such for cold sores that I thought it important to point out. Especially since Sam here actually passed his blood test. > I said "if," Pain. > ar [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Yes, but he could not really be getting coldsores. A lot of people mistake > > pimples, and skin damged (like biting your cheek) as coldsores. > Well, you've got some confusing things happening here. First of all, if > you have cold sores then you have herpes. Period. No questions asked. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > immediately upon the start of an outbreak. So, prearrange this with your > doctor. I had the little bumps on my lip, that I thought were hair/razor bumps or acne, that hurt when squeezed, and oozed a yellowish fluid. They are now red, rash-like sores that I think are during my recurrences. Is the tingling that I felt in my neck only during the initial outbreak? I no longer get that, but I have these sweating episodes that are unnerving. > What does your doctor think you have? My doctor did not say what he thought I might have. I have had referrals to a dermatologist and opthamologist and I told both that I suspected herpes. The opthamologist suggested another type of eye infection (blepharitis) after an exam. > If you had the Western Blot test run, then there is only one lab in the USA > that runs it and only one lab in Canada that runs it. Do you have a copy of > your test results? Call the doctor and get a copy of your test results and > tell us exactly what kind of test was run. I will get a copy of my test results. He showed me the IGg/IGm. I saw a number 0.9 next to one of them, but we did not discuss it much after he told me it was negative. He really blew through the results too quickly, after stating that it was negative. We are in the process of changing primary care providers becuase they have become impersonal and less attentive (get em in...get em out) than I or my wife care for at this stage in our lives. The tingling in my neck stopped about a month ago, was that an initial outbreak and should I wait 12 to 16 weeks from that point to get tested? > "Sam Sebya" <anathema04@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > herpes. After that time, the body is pretty good at taking care of itself > and infecting another part of the body becomes difficult. I am ashamed to say that it was me, until about 4 years ago. My wife has sworn to me that she has not been unfaithful, although I never asked her if she had/had not been. My own guilt prevented me from making that accusation, but she voluntarily stated that. It was quite shocking to learn that condoms don't protect you as much as one might think. That question was more for clarity, though. After reading about autoinnoculation, and posts stating that you if you are already infected with a type (1 or 2) it's difficult to get reinfected with that same type, I started to think about my wife's prodrome (her blister was painful to the touch, crusted over, and looked exactly like a photo found online) and the fact that I had symptoms of an oral infection that occured after that. She has never showed signs of oral infection, which was even more confusing, because we had been quite mutual in that regard (oral sex). > > 2) If I have both genital and oral infections would the recurrences > > happen at the same time or at different times like they seem to do for [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > You need to find an opthamologist that specializes in herpes infections. Does anyone know of any in the DC/MD/VA area or a site that list them? > > 4) I have been taking lysine, 1000mg, once daily, at the 1st sign of > > an outbreak (tingling or cold sores), but I have seen recommendations [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Is your doctor even concerned at all about another type of viral or > bacterian infection? I had a followup to an annual physical recently where I thought I would get some answers (including the Western Blot test results). I showed him my tongue, told him that it felt like I had a cut in the middle or that on the sides it felt like an abrasion or that I drank something too hot. He said that it looked normal. > ar You all have been very helpful with information, as well as helping me to maintain my sanity, and I thank you. I want to apologize for not editing the end of my original post. It was originally sent to another group member with a website. Hi Sam, If your blood test results had readings for IGg/IGm then you did not get the Western Blot test. Many doctors will substitute another test for the Western Blot. A Western Blot will tell you definitely if you have herpes and what type. It will say: Positive Herpes Type 1, etc. I don't know about the oozing. However, if I remember correctly, herpes doesn't usually ooze. Everyone experiences their prodromes a different way. So, some people will always get tingling. Some people do sometimes. Some people never have tingling. You need to wait 12 to 16 weeks after the time your symptoms first appeared to have a new blood test run. You can have a culture run anytime, though, as long as you get to the doctor immediately upon noticing the blister. At this point, I highly recommend that some doctor start running some tests to find out what you've got. I don't remember sweating being a herpes symptom.... A painful tongue can be a symptom of a few things. One of which is a B12 deficiency. Thanks for your honesty. It is possible that you picked it up 4 years ago. In which case, your blood tests, no matter when you have them done now, would be accurate. Of course, it's possible that your doctor doesn't know how to read the IGg and IGm results. They really are confusing. Definitely get a copy and post it here. Keep us informed on how you're doing. ar > > Well, you've got some confusing things happening here. First of all, if > > you have cold sores then you have herpes. Period. No questions asked. [quoted text clipped - 116 lines] > editing the end of my original post. It was originally sent to another > group member with a website. Sam, If your test came back negative, you can take it again to be sure but... Have you considered that you might simply be having an anxiety attack? They can cause symptoms even worse than herpes. I get them, but not so sevearly... my aunt gets them so bad that she actually has siezures. Falls on the floor drooling and everything. Your wifes symptoms could be herpes, but if so, she probably got it decades ago and it just recently showed up. But if she doesn't have it, it may just be Acne. Large pimples can look like herpes sores. Seeing something like that, coupled with stress could set anyone into an anxiety attack. If you think you might be having an anxiety problem, see a shrink, they are fun! I see one every 2 weeks and I have to say, I always feel great afterwards. I wish everyone could see a shrink, the world would be a lot happier place. I'm a traditional naturopathic physician that can help to irradiate your herpes symptoms. Check out my website and then give me a call as I perform telephone testing to clients all over the country. But for this I'd recommend a herpes blend from the Monastery of Herbs to start and then we'll check to see what other meridians are weak so the outbreaks don't reappear. Dr. is at 818-848-7414 in Burbank, CA One actress came to me with Simplex 2 on her face and it turned out that a bacterial blend removed the problem within 3 days--her immune system was busy on another infection and her Herpes reappeared. It has been over 4 months since I've seen her and her outbreak is still gone. > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > Thanks >I'm a traditional naturopathic physician that can help to irradiate your Did you mean "eradicate"? Yeah, you simply radiate competence. >herpes symptoms. Check out my website and then give me a call as I perform >telephone testing to clients all over the country. But for this I'd [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >busy on another infection and her Herpes reappeared. It has been over 4 >months since I've seen her and her outbreak is still gone. Go on, get out of here you fruit-flake charlatan spammer. Git! Mike |
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