Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / June 2004

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

A very informative site

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Perl Molson - 14 Jun 2004 07:40 GMT
http://www.med.sc.edu:85/virol/herpes.htm
M.L.S. - 14 Jun 2004 08:20 GMT
>http://www.med.sc.edu:85/virol/herpes.htm

"The viral membrane is quite fragile and a virus with a damaged
envelope is not infectious (This means that the virus readily falls
apart and so the virus can only be obtained by direct contact with
mucosal surfaces or secretions of an infected person - it cannot be
caught from toilet seats). Besides drying, the virus is also
sensitive to acids, detergents and organic solvents as might be
expected for an virus with a lipid envelope."

Some people might also like to know that the page Perl links to
above, features a large number of pictures, albeit in thumbnail
dimensions, showing wide ranges of herpes (not only simplex)
symptoms.

Mike
Grant - 14 Jun 2004 10:16 GMT
> "The viral membrane is quite fragile and a virus with a damaged
> envelope is not infectious (This means that the virus readily falls
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> sensitive to acids, detergents and organic solvents as might be
> expected for an virus with a lipid envelope."

Perl, doesn't this blow your whole toothbrush theory out of the water?

ar
Perl Molson - 14 Jun 2004 18:34 GMT
> > "The viral membrane is quite fragile and a virus with a damaged
> > envelope is not infectious (This means that the virus readily falls
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> ar

No; where you see in here any mentions about toothbrushes?

It is probably need of only a few viruses out of many that will
reach a toothbrush, to cause
an infection.

The environment of the toothbrushes can offer lots of
hiding places for those viruses.

But that's really not what I am focusing my attention right now.
I have other unanwered questions such as,
what is the role of the outside the ganglia situated viruses,
in relationship with the traces of the viruses found in ganglia,
in order for them traces of viruses to become active virions?

My guess is, whether in the absence of any viruses or virions outside
the ganglia, can those traces become active virions?

I know it sounds hard to believe, but it actually might be true.

When first infected, the viruses will reach the ganglia; meanwhile,
some viruses will remain on the OB area; furthermore, due to their
singalling
of some sort, these viruses situated on the OB areas,
will trigger some viruses from the ganglia to become virions and some
of
them will travel to the location in the top of the spinal cord or CNS.
(you can see in here the story, that I am talking about):
http://www-ermm.cbcu.cam.ac.uk/99000381h.htm

From now on, there will be some viruses along the neural axons, (where
they
can form new viruses, too), also some viruses at the location
I've just mentioned, that is the spinal cord of CNS.

My guess is, that for as long as there are viruses there in these 2
locations,
those viruses can keep a constant flow of virions and formations of
new virions in ganglia.

That is why, my pressumtion is that if we can eliminate all those
viruses from the axons, the CNS and of course those
from the assymtomatic shedding areas of the skin/mucosa (which is
quite easy to do, with antiviral creams and other methods), then there
will be left only
some unable fragments, traces to become new virions.

Another explanation would be that, the viruses outside the ganglia,
when travelling towards the ganglia, they can cause a local
immunity weakness and thus, allow new virions to escape the ganglia.

As my theory goes, considering that local immunity that
exists around the ganglia, in immediate vicinity of those fragments
that want to become virions, there would be no
possible way for that immunity to allow new virions to be formed.

Only an outside ganglia viral mechanism of disturbance of ganglia
would be, in my opinion, possible.
On the other hand, those viruses situated outside ganglia, they
can't cause an OB themselves, either; they are only able to
disturb that local immunity near the ganglia and
thus, as I've said, allowing for new virions to be formed in ganglia.

There is this combined mechanism of external from ganglia viruses
that will only contribute to allowing the new ganglia virions to be
formed
(of course, in large numbers, that will be able to overcome the
further
immunity that the viruses need to overcome in order to reach the
skin/mucosa
for an OB; there should be at least 2 different types if not more, of
such immunity that the large number of viruses will require to
overcome).

Let me recap, now, to make a long story short:

In a cronic infected person, there are some viruses
found at the CNS, that is spinal cord, some viruses found inside the
neurons; in both of these situations, the viruses are not
capable of causing independently, an OB.
The way the OB will take place, is, due to the local immunity problem,
that is being caused by the viruses, that will return back to the
ganglia, from
these, at least one location: neuron or CNS.

With the local immunity at the ganglia weaken, now the large number of
new formed viruses will be able to overcome all other immunity meed
until the skin/mucosa.

To be even more clear in my explanation, imagine this scenario
that I've seen in a documentary on tv.

A gang of bank robbers, I recall let call them herpes viruses; there
were a group of prisoners inside a jail. Their friends, free at that
moment,
have helped those jailed men to escape. Thus, together, they'd started
robbing banks and such.

Do you see my point?
That is how I understand HSV, at the moment.

Perl Molson
M.L.S. - 14 Jun 2004 19:42 GMT
>>M.L.S. posted:

>> > "The viral membrane is quite fragile and a virus with a damaged
>> > envelope is not infectious (This means that the virus readily falls
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> > sensitive to acids, detergents and organic solvents as might be
>> > expected for an virus with a lipid envelope."

>> Perl, doesn't this blow your whole toothbrush theory out of the water?
>No; where you see in here any mentions about toothbrushes?

Almost all toothpastes incorporate some type of detergent as a
foaming agent.  As noted above, detergents are inimical to the
herpes virus.

And here's a great link, Perl:

http://www.therabreath.com/toothpaste/index.html

(that ought to keep him busy for a while ;-)

>It is probably need of only a few viruses out of many that will
>reach a toothbrush, to cause an infection.

Where did you find that tid bit of information?  Last I heard, no
one knows how many viruses it takes to start a new infection, but
the thought is that it takes more than a few.

>The environment of the toothbrushes can offer lots of
>hiding places for those viruses.

Toothbrushes also offer lots of surface area for virus-killing
detergents.

>But that's really not what I am focusing my attention right now.
>I have other unanwered questions such as,
>what is the role of the outside the ganglia situated viruses,
>in relationship with the traces of the viruses found in ganglia,
>in order for them traces of viruses to become active virions?

This is a support group, Perl.  You are unlikely to find the secret
to a cure for herpes in such a non-technical forum.  It's highly
unlikely you'll be able to tease a cure from ANY corner of Usenet,
but I think it's more likely you'll have some luck in a scientific
or medical forum.

>My guess is, whether in the absence of any viruses or virions outside
>the ganglia, can those traces become active virions?

Ya see, when someone asks a question here, we try to respond with a
little sound advice.  My advice to you, Perl, is to take your
mangled English to a more appropriate scientific or medical forum
and bother the people there with you inanities.  See?  Useful
support.

>I know it sounds hard to believe, but it actually might be true.

You offer a guess disguised as an illiterate question and theorize
it might be true?  Good luck.  Have fun.

<snip>

And bye.

Mike
Perl Molson - 15 Jun 2004 05:38 GMT
>  
> >>M.L.S. posted:
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> (that ought to keep him busy for a while ;-)

Not at all. Why would I want to read those things? I use different toothpaste.

> >It is probably need of only a few viruses out of many that will
> >reach a toothbrush, to cause an infection.
>
> Where did you find that tid bit of information?  Last I heard, no
> one knows how many viruses it takes to start a new infection, but
> the thought is that it takes more than a few.

No buts!

> >The environment of the toothbrushes can offer lots of
> >hiding places for those viruses.
>
> Toothbrushes also offer lots of surface area for virus-killing
> detergents.

Yes, but in our fast paste world, we can miss some spots
in our rush, isn't it?

> >But that's really not what I am focusing my attention right now.
> >I have other unanwered questions such as,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> but I think it's more likely you'll have some luck in a scientific
> or medical forum.

No thanks, I am OK in here. Considering the high numbers
of unrelated topics, off topics, spam, etc I am actually doing pretty good,
after all.
Regarding the cure, I'll talk about it when I will get cured, OK?

> >My guess is, whether in the absence of any viruses or virions outside
> >the ganglia, can those traces become active virions?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> and bother the people there with you inanities.  See?  Useful
> support.

We have Tim in here, he is a pro'

> >I know it sounds hard to believe, but it actually might be true.
>
> You offer a guess disguised as an illiterate question and theorize
> it might be true?  Good luck.  Have fun.

I'm sure you are doing well with reading my posts. They
are all right. A little misspelling here and there, that's all.
No biggy...

> <snip>

Don't snip me!

Perl Molson

> And bye.
>
> Mike
M.L.S. - 15 Jun 2004 13:05 GMT
>> And here's a great link, Perl:

>> http://www.therabreath.com/toothpaste/index.html

>> (that ought to keep him busy for a while ;-)

>Not at all. Why would I want to read those things? I use different toothpaste.

For all you know, the ingredients in your "different toothpaste" are
aggravating your herpes condition.

There must be a thousand or more toothpaste related links at the
site above.  I only had to read a couple to find that one of the
most widely used ingredients in commercial toothpaste can be
responsible for certain types of mouth ulcers.

Mike
Perl Molson - 17 Jun 2004 10:44 GMT
>  
> >> And here's a great link, Perl:
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Mike

You might be right about the potential aggravating factors
found in toothpaste but in my case they seem to not
be a problem. Thanks anyway for pointing them out.
If you have anything in particular that you see very
common and that is bad for the HSV situation, feel
free to add it in here.

I do not reckon any particular such substances.
I know about artificial flavourings, colours and other that
are bad for you. The chewing gum I use also has such artificial
flavourings/colors in it but I did not find a natural kind.

Maybe you can recommend such a good chewing gum brand that would be cool.

Perl Molson
Gadge - 16 Jun 2004 22:35 GMT
> > >>M.L.S. posted:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Not at all. Why would I want to read those things? I use different toothpaste.

Does your toothpaste contain sodium lauryl sulfate?
Pain Devine - 16 Jun 2004 22:56 GMT
Hi Gadge!
Gadge - 16 Jun 2004 23:21 GMT
> Hi Gadge!

Hey there!
Pain Devine - 16 Jun 2004 23:31 GMT
How was your day?

> > Hi Gadge!
> >
> Hey there!
Gadge - 16 Jun 2004 23:38 GMT
> How was your day?

Good thanks

You?
Pain Devine - 16 Jun 2004 23:36 GMT
I went and got icecream... but I got this fancy cone that tasted funny... so
I threw it out and got a milkshake instead. The milkshake was much better.
mmmm....
Gadge - 16 Jun 2004 23:43 GMT
> I went and got icecream... but I got this fancy cone that tasted funny... so
> I threw it out and got a milkshake instead. The milkshake was much better.
> mmmm....

what flavour was it - the ice-cream?

(I'm sure everyone here is dying to know, hehe)
Pain Devine - 16 Jun 2004 23:41 GMT
Chocolate!

You should get some icecream! It's good for you. Trust me!
Gadge - 16 Jun 2004 23:51 GMT
> Chocolate!
>
> You should get some icecream! It's good for you. Trust me!

Chocolate - my favourite!

mmmmmmmBen&Jerryschocolatefudgebrowniemmmmmmmmmmm
Pain Devine - 16 Jun 2004 23:54 GMT
What kinda music do you like? I've recorded some stuff.

> > Chocolate!
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> mmmmmmmBen&Jerryschocolatefudgebrowniemmmmmmmmmmm
Gadge - 17 Jun 2004 00:19 GMT
> What kinda music do you like? I've recorded some stuff.

music?  all music!!!
I gotta go now - need sleep!

ttfn
Pain Devine - 17 Jun 2004 00:19 GMT
Yea, you english have night time way too soon. You need to fix that.

and music rocks! (well, most music does anyway)

> > What kinda music do you like? I've recorded some stuff.
> >
> music?  all music!!!
> I gotta go now - need sleep!
>
> ttfn
Gadge - 17 Jun 2004 23:37 GMT
> Yea, you english have night time way too soon. You need to fix that.
>
> and music rocks! (well, most music does anyway)

Nah, we don't have night time too soon, you guys have it too late!
Pain Devine - 18 Jun 2004 00:44 GMT
But it limits my "Gadge chat time" :-(
Perl Molson - 17 Jun 2004 10:38 GMT
> > M.L.S. <msoja9@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>  news:<tjqrc057pngksdfh4bo1c94seo0jab3mob@4ax.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> >
> Does your toothpaste contain sodium lauryl sulfate?

I am not sure, but I am not worried about it, really.
The ones I use seem to be OK.

Perl Molson
Gadge - 17 Jun 2004 23:36 GMT
> > > M.L.S. <msoja9@newsguy.com> wrote in message
> >  news:<tjqrc057pngksdfh4bo1c94seo0jab3mob@4ax.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> I am not sure, but I am not worried about it, really.
> The ones I use seem to be OK.

I understand that most toothpastes (inc. mine) contain sodium lauryl
sulfate - that's the detergent (which will put paid to the herpes virus) and
also provides the nice frothyness which people like so much.  You also find
it in things like shampoo and handwash...

--
G.
Perl Molson - 19 Jun 2004 00:12 GMT
> > "Gadge" <GiGi@spam.net> wrote in message
>  news:<2jbsfpFv6g00U1@uni-berlin.de>...
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> also provides the nice frothyness which people like so much.  You also find
> it in things like shampoo and handwash...

Thanks for sharing the info. I recall I was aware of this name
but right now I have a lapsus.
However, I find this fact of a less importance in the context that
I try to understand how the virus works.
What toothpastes am I using seem to be working pretty well,
I am not going to pursue a further gain of knowledge in this particular
field, considering others are prevailing right now.
Prioritizing it's a good aspect, following my interest in understanding HSV.
I have to reinforce preemtively too often my theories, before some folks in here
"evildoers" try to clear them up. (you know, look at the poor Pain Devine
he is paying 300 bucks a months, money that get into these folks' big pockets;
and those latter folks love playing golf, you know...)

Perl Molson
Gadge - 21 Jun 2004 21:24 GMT
> > > "Gadge" <GiGi@spam.net> wrote in message
> >  news:<2jbsfpFv6g00U1@uni-berlin.de>...
<snip>
> > > > Does your toothpaste contain sodium lauryl sulfate?
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> I am not going to pursue a further gain of knowledge in this particular
> field, considering others are prevailing right now.

That's fine, you're looking at ways to elimate outbreaks, and the detergent
in toothpaste isn't anything to do with that.  However, it may reassure some
that the herpes virus is unlikely to survive on anyone's toothbrush .

--
G.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.