Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / August 2003
Why is it not curable?
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Kristina - 10 Aug 2003 03:02 GMT Everywhere I look, I keep seeing, "There is no cure for herpes," but cannot find an explanation as to why there is no cure. I can't be the only person that has ever questioned this, yet I cannot locate an answer. Can anyone shed some light on this?
M2slo2cht@Yahoo.com - 10 Aug 2003 07:03 GMT >"There is no cure for herpes," but >cannot find an explanation as to why there is no cure. There is no cure for the common cold either. I have no idea why that. I don't know much about cold viruses though.
Genital Herp is a tuffy mainly because it resides in a bundle of nerve cells. And nerve cells are off limits to antibodies and other blood borne tools of the immune system. Nonetheless, seems simple enough to destroy the nerve cells and therefore cure the disease. Unfortunately, the nerves in question supply the boxer shorts area with sensation (hot, cold, touch, like that), so if you destroy them, you end up sort of ... well ... dead down there. Sooo ... it ain't as simple as one would hope. .... sorry ... But, they're working on it. Hopefully, they'll have something soon. MIght not be a cure, but something that'll do as well until a cure comes along.
M2
michael - 10 Aug 2003 09:06 GMT hi once again it's mike from the land of australia, you may remember me, i'm new to the group and have been reading the thread every day.
angela, since i found out i was diagnosed with HSV i did some checking on the situation in aus. my doctor (who is head of the local government sex clinic and should have some idea on what he is takling about) informs me that in aus HSV affects 1 in 4 people who are sexually active but out of this only 60% know they have it. in other words 60% a asymptomatic. know doubt i questioned these stats but he's standing by them. are the stats similar in USA?
but the reason i am contacting the group is to ask if any member other than angela, has been able to meet a new partner without HSV and continued with their lives without major truma and if so was there a strategy.
angela you are right when you say aim high, that you do not have to date only ladies with HSV. But how do you take that first step knowing that it could be the end of the relationship.
from what i read on the thread i'm lucky that i've experienced no symptoms yet, but the emotional tussle i face now is i think more daunting. i know since i was diagnosed with HSV i am a lot more quite like a puppy with its tail between its legs. even my work collegues have noticed a difference in my personality. i don't want to go through life fearing rejection, there so much more to me than sex. but i can't help feeling i'm at the mercy of women now and that i will not make the grade now. any encouraging stories would be grateful. mike in aus
>>"There is no cure for herpes," but >>cannot find an explanation as to why there is no cure. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >M2 M2slo2cht@Yahoo.com - 10 Aug 2003 14:55 GMT >my doctor (who is head of the local >government sex clinic and should have some idea on what he is takling >about) informs me that in aus HSV affects 1 in 4 people who are >sexually active but out of this only 60% know they have it. in other >words 60% a asymptomatic. If you meant to say that 60% DON'T know they have it, you'd be close to the stats we see based on studies here in the USA. They range, depending on the study, from 1 in 5 to 1 in 4 adults positive for type 2 (I've seen as high as 1 in 3 quoted by reliable sources, although I don't know where their figures came from). And of the positive type2 peeps studied, 70%-90% didn't have a clue, either because they have no symptoms at all (asymptomatic) or the symptoms are so mild they're not noticable. So the stats your doc gave you are in range of what we're seeing in the states.
>i'm lucky that i've experienced no >symptoms yet, but the emotional tussle i face now is i think more >daunting. That's the case for a LOT of herpsters. Imho, it's a matter of putting things in perspective which, I realize, isn't easy to do because of the associated stigma when it's located genitally instead of orally. But what we're talking about is a cold sore now and then. No big deal really, except for the location. And even though we're constantly bombarded by reminders that there is no cure, the fact is it usually fades away on it's own over time. Fewer and milder outbreaks over time and less frequent asymptomatic shedding, just like having it orally. It certainly doesn't compare to any sort of life threatening disease, and it's not progressive (doesn't grow and/or get worse like cancer etc), and doesn't lead to any other diseases either. Plus, if you want treatment, anti-virals are available. Then, when you look around and realize how many other people are in the same boat, and realize how many discordant couples are out there having not transfered the thing after years of togetherness, and realize that of all the STDs you could've picked up, this is one of the most minor ... well, I hope you get my point. Oh! and there's some great social Hgroups out there for those who like that sort of thing. I'm tellin' ya, it doesn't take much imagination to turn this lemon into lemonade.
M2
Kristina - 10 Aug 2003 18:29 GMT > There is no cure for the common cold either. I have no idea why that. > I don't know much about cold viruses though. This is what confuses me. As far as I know, the cold virus does not stay with you for life.
M2slo2cht@Yahoo.com - 10 Aug 2003 20:02 GMT M2 wrote:
>>There is no cure for the common cold either. I have no idea why that. >> I don't know much about cold viruses though.
>This is what confuses me. As far as I know, the cold virus does not >stay with you for life. Couldn't tell it by me. I know people that seem to have a recurrence at least once a year ;-) <jes kiddin'>
I'm not sure about the life cycle of a cold virus but, unlike hsv, a cold virus is subject to attack by the body's immune system. So, even though there is no cure, the immune system is normally able to locate it, get to it, and trounce it. The immune system could trounce hsv too if it ever comes out of it's hiding place in the nerve ganglia. I guess that's why you don't find hsv in the bloodstream. If/when ever a virus particle gets swept up in the blood, it get's it's tiny little butt kicked.
M2
Gzmo - 11 Aug 2003 10:46 GMT There is no cure for ANYvirus yet. They can develop vaccines to innoculate you from them but, to date, viruses remain a mystery. I think if they could crack the code on one they could crack the code on all of them. Part of the problem is that anything strong enough to kill an active virus would likely harm the host (you) as well.
Gzmo
-- Gzmo
> Everywhere I look, I keep seeing, "There is no cure for herpes," but > cannot find an explanation as to why there is no cure. I can't be the > only person that has ever questioned this, yet I cannot locate an > answer. Can anyone shed some light on this? M.L.S. - 14 Aug 2003 15:26 GMT >Everywhere I look, I keep seeing, "There is no cure for herpes," but >cannot find an explanation as to why there is no cure. I can't be the >only person that has ever questioned this, yet I cannot locate an >answer. Can anyone shed some light on this? That question is becoming one of the more frequently asked questions around here and so probably deserves a prominent spot in the FAQ, eh? Gee, i wonder who we could get to write it up?
Yet, I'm always perplexed when the question is asked, though I must commend Kristina on not blaming a non-cure on the big drug companies like several of the posters asking the question have gone on to do.
Others have responded about the complexity of the herpes virus and the fact that it can hide in the ganglia where it is out of reach of the body's natural defenses. In fact, when the virus comes out of its hidey holes the body reacts swiftly to quell the invader, though often not in time to prevent that damage to the epidermal layer which we call an outbreak.
The point I want to make though, about viruses in general, which relates to how hard they are to destroy, or "cure", is that the little buggers have spent millions of years evolving *with* us, their hosts. Essentially, they are made of the same stuff that we are, just in smaller and different configurations. If we send some substance in to kill them, we end up damaging other important parts of ourselves, too. The usual method that we've developed to fight against the worst scourges (polio, smallpox, etc.) is to develop a vaccine that is very similar to the relative virus, which, while not causing the disease, prods the body itself to develop the weapons that will ward off the real invader when and if it comes along. Scientists can not yet design and manufacture any virus fighting agent from scratch, though Acyclovir comes close. All they can do is cajole the body into coming up with something on its own, and, in the case of herpes, the virus has found a niche where it can hide from the bodies regular defenses.
Certainly, though, cures for all diseases are waiting in the future. As far as I know there is no reason to suppose that there are other than very plainly determinate causes for any disease, and that being, solutions in every case will eventually be determined. It bears in mind to remember that "viruses" have only been known for about a century, and that the vast bulk of what we know about them now has been learned in the last twenty years. I would expect that another twenty years will expand our knowledge again exponentially, and that real progress will have been made on a number of fronts. If in twenty five years there is still no cure for herpes you might even see me writing here, "Why is there no cure???".
Take care,
Mike
anthony baker - 21 Aug 2003 00:03 GMT comes close. All they can do is cajole the body into coming
> up with something on its own, and, in the case of herpes, the virus > has found a niche where it can hide from the bodies regular defenses. i can not accept that the nerves dont have some sort of defensive system (when i was a child we were taught that the brain doesnt produce new brain cells as one ages, i thought balls- i was right)
surely there must be some sort of defensive system for the nerves(what about the brain or spinal cord- how r they defended?) that scientists can detect and activate?
would love to hear what scientists in this field think and how far have they progressed
M.L.S. - 21 Aug 2003 15:34 GMT >comes close. All they can do is cajole the body into coming >> up with something on its own, and, in the case of herpes, the virus >> has found a niche where it can hide from the bodies regular defenses.
>i can not accept that the nerves dont have some sort of defensive >system (when i was a child we were taught that the brain doesnt >produce new brain cells as one ages, i thought balls- i was right) The stuff I don't know about medicine and human biology you could stuff the Great Crab Nebula with. I'm not sure but I think that herpes adds only a very small amount of stress to the individual ganglia, and that, basically the little latent viruses are ignored in their homes. You could ask me to explain then what kind of chemical transfers wash the individual nerve cell and I'd have to admit that I don't know, but there's probably quite a few. The problem is figuring out how to send a new antiviral agent into a space almost unbelievably small. Anything you stick into the blood stream for delivery automatically gets delivered to every corner of the body, where the law of unintended consequences kicks in, and there aren't too many alternate delivery systems for things.
>surely there must be some sort of defensive system for the nerves(what >about the brain or spinal cord- how r they defended?) that scientists >can detect and activate? There *are* a lot of electrolytes and such floating around the nerve structures, but upsetting the natural order there is an enormously complicated undertaking, especially if one doesn't intend to court tragedy. I know it's not much help, but I am confident that some very smart people are looking into every possible avenue in treating HSV and a host of other long time scourges.
>would love to hear what scientists in this field think and how far >have they progressed Me, too. Take care,
Mike
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