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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / August 2003

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Why is it not curable?

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Kristina - 10 Aug 2003 03:02 GMT
Everywhere I look, I keep seeing, "There is no cure for herpes," but
cannot find an explanation as to why there is no cure. I can't be the
only person that has ever questioned this, yet I cannot locate an
answer. Can anyone shed some light on this?
M2slo2cht@Yahoo.com - 10 Aug 2003 07:03 GMT
>"There is no cure for herpes," but
>cannot find an explanation as to why there is no cure.

There is no cure for the common cold either. I have no idea why that.
I don't know much about cold viruses though.

Genital Herp is a tuffy mainly because it resides in a bundle of nerve
cells. And nerve cells are off limits to antibodies and other blood
borne tools of the immune system. Nonetheless, seems simple enough to
destroy the nerve cells and therefore cure the disease. Unfortunately,
the nerves in question supply the boxer shorts area with sensation
(hot, cold, touch, like that), so if you destroy them, you end up sort
of ... well ... dead down there.
Sooo ... it ain't as simple as one would hope.  .... sorry ...
But, they're working on it. Hopefully, they'll have something soon.
MIght not be a cure, but something that'll do as well until a cure
comes along.

M2
michael - 10 Aug 2003 09:06 GMT
hi once again it's mike from the land of australia, you may remember
me, i'm new to the group and have been reading the thread every day.

angela, since i found out i was diagnosed with HSV i did some checking
on the situation in aus. my doctor (who is head of the local
government sex clinic and should have some idea on what he is takling
about) informs me that in aus HSV affects 1 in 4 people who are
sexually active but out of this only 60% know they have it. in other
words 60% a asymptomatic. know doubt i questioned these stats but he's
standing by them. are the stats similar in USA?

but the reason i am contacting the group is to ask if any member other
than angela, has been able to meet a new partner without HSV and
continued with their lives without major truma and if so was there a
strategy.

angela you are right when you say aim high, that you do not have to
date only ladies with HSV. But how do you take that first step knowing
that it could be the end of the relationship.

from what i read on the thread i'm lucky that i've experienced no
symptoms yet, but the emotional tussle i face now is i think more
daunting. i know since i was diagnosed with HSV i am a lot more quite
like a puppy with its tail between its legs. even my work collegues
have noticed a difference in my personality. i don't want to go
through life fearing rejection, there so much more to me than sex. but
i can't help feeling i'm at the mercy of women now and that i will not
make the grade now. any encouraging stories would be grateful. mike in
aus

>>"There is no cure for herpes," but
>>cannot find an explanation as to why there is no cure.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
>M2
M2slo2cht@Yahoo.com - 10 Aug 2003 14:55 GMT
>my doctor (who is head of the local
>government sex clinic and should have some idea on what he is takling
>about) informs me that in aus HSV affects 1 in 4 people who are
>sexually active but out of this only 60% know they have it. in other
>words 60% a asymptomatic.

If you meant to say that 60% DON'T know they have it, you'd be close
to the stats we see based on studies here in the USA.  They range,
depending on the study, from 1 in 5  to 1 in 4 adults positive for
type 2 (I've seen as high as 1 in 3 quoted by reliable sources,
although I don't know where their figures came from). And of the
positive type2 peeps studied, 70%-90% didn't have a clue, either
because they have no symptoms at all (asymptomatic) or the symptoms
are so mild they're not noticable. So the stats your doc gave you are
in range of what we're seeing in the states.

>i'm lucky that i've experienced no
>symptoms yet, but the emotional tussle i face now is i think more
>daunting.

That's the case for a LOT of herpsters.  Imho, it's a matter of
putting things in perspective which, I realize, isn't easy to do
because of the associated stigma when it's located genitally instead
of orally. But what we're talking about is a cold sore now and then.
No big deal really, except for the location. And even though we're
constantly bombarded by reminders that there is no cure, the fact is
it usually fades away on it's own over time. Fewer and milder
outbreaks over time and less frequent asymptomatic shedding, just like
having it orally.  It certainly doesn't compare to any sort of life
threatening disease, and it's not progressive (doesn't grow and/or get
worse like cancer etc), and doesn't lead to any other diseases either.
Plus, if you want treatment, anti-virals are available.
Then, when you look around and realize how many other people are in
the same boat, and realize how many discordant couples are out there
having not transfered the thing after years of togetherness, and
realize that of all the STDs you could've picked up, this is one of
the most minor ... well, I hope you get my point. Oh! and there's some
great social Hgroups out there for those who like that sort of thing.
I'm tellin' ya, it doesn't take much imagination to turn this lemon
into lemonade.

M2
Kristina - 10 Aug 2003 18:29 GMT
> There is no cure for the common cold either. I have no idea why that.
> I don't know much about cold viruses though.

This is what confuses me. As far as I know, the cold virus does not
stay with you for life.
M2slo2cht@Yahoo.com - 10 Aug 2003 20:02 GMT
M2 wrote:
>>There is no cure for the common cold either. I have no idea why that.
>> I don't know much about cold viruses though.

>This is what confuses me. As far as I know, the cold virus does not
>stay with you for life.

Couldn't tell it by me. I know people that seem to have a recurrence
at least once a year  ;-)     <jes kiddin'>

I'm not sure about the life cycle of a cold virus but, unlike hsv, a
cold virus is subject to attack by the body's immune system. So, even
though there is no cure, the immune system is normally able to locate
it, get to it, and trounce it. The immune system could trounce hsv too
if it ever comes out of it's hiding place in the nerve ganglia. I
guess that's why you don't find hsv in the bloodstream. If/when ever a
virus particle gets swept up in the blood, it get's it's tiny little
butt kicked.

M2
Gzmo - 11 Aug 2003 10:46 GMT
There is no cure for ANYvirus yet.  They can develop vaccines to innoculate
you from them but, to date, viruses remain a mystery.   I think if they
could crack the code on one they could crack the code on all of them.  Part
of the problem is that anything strong enough to kill an active virus would
likely harm the host (you) as well.

Gzmo

--
Gzmo
> Everywhere I look, I keep seeing, "There is no cure for herpes," but
> cannot find an explanation as to why there is no cure. I can't be the
> only person that has ever questioned this, yet I cannot locate an
> answer. Can anyone shed some light on this?
M.L.S. - 14 Aug 2003 15:26 GMT
>Everywhere I look, I keep seeing, "There is no cure for herpes," but
>cannot find an explanation as to why there is no cure. I can't be the
>only person that has ever questioned this, yet I cannot locate an
>answer. Can anyone shed some light on this?

That question is becoming one of the more frequently asked questions
around here and so probably deserves a prominent spot in the FAQ, eh?
Gee, i wonder who we could get to write it up?

Yet, I'm always perplexed when the question is asked, though I must
commend Kristina on not blaming a non-cure on the big drug companies
like several of the posters asking the question have gone on to do.

Others have responded about the complexity of the herpes virus and the
fact that it can hide in the ganglia where it is out of reach of the
body's natural defenses.  In fact, when the virus comes out of its
hidey holes the body reacts swiftly to quell the invader, though often
not in time to prevent that damage to the epidermal layer which we
call an outbreak.

The point I want to make though, about viruses in general, which
relates to how hard they are to destroy, or "cure", is that the little
buggers have spent millions of years evolving *with* us, their hosts.
Essentially, they are made of the same stuff that we are, just in
smaller and different configurations.  If we send some substance in to
kill them, we end up damaging other important parts of ourselves, too.
The usual method that we've developed to fight against the worst
scourges (polio, smallpox, etc.) is to develop a vaccine that is very
similar to the relative virus, which, while not causing the disease,
prods the body itself to develop the weapons that will ward off the
real invader when and if it comes along.  Scientists can not yet
design and manufacture any virus fighting agent from scratch, though
Acyclovir comes close.  All they can do is cajole the body into coming
up with something on its own, and, in the case of herpes, the virus
has found a niche where it can hide from the bodies regular defenses.

Certainly, though, cures for all diseases are waiting in the future.
As far as I know there is no reason to suppose that there are other
than very plainly determinate causes for any disease, and that being,
solutions in every case will eventually be determined.  It bears in
mind to remember that "viruses" have only been known for about a
century, and that the vast bulk of what we know about them now has
been learned in the last twenty years.  I would expect that another
twenty years will expand our knowledge again exponentially, and that
real progress will have been made on a number of fronts.  If in twenty
five years there is still no cure for herpes you might even see me
writing here, "Why is there no cure???".

Take care,

Mike
anthony baker - 21 Aug 2003 00:03 GMT
comes close.  All they can do is cajole the body into coming
> up with something on its own, and, in the case of herpes, the virus
> has found a niche where it can hide from the bodies regular defenses.

i can not accept that the nerves dont have some sort of defensive
system (when i was a child we were taught that the brain doesnt
produce new brain cells as one ages, i thought balls- i was right)

surely there must be some sort of defensive system for the nerves(what
about the brain or spinal cord- how r they defended?) that scientists
can detect and activate?

would love to hear what scientists in this field think and how far
have they progressed
M.L.S. - 21 Aug 2003 15:34 GMT
>comes close.  All they can do is cajole the body into coming
>> up with something on its own, and, in the case of herpes, the virus
>> has found a niche where it can hide from the bodies regular defenses.

>i can not accept that the nerves dont have some sort of defensive
>system (when i was a child we were taught that the brain doesnt
>produce new brain cells as one ages, i thought balls- i was right)

The stuff I don't know about medicine and human biology you could
stuff the Great Crab Nebula with.  I'm not sure but I think that
herpes adds only a very small amount of stress to the individual
ganglia, and that, basically the little latent viruses are ignored in
their homes.  You could ask me to explain then what kind of chemical
transfers wash the individual nerve cell and I'd have to admit that I
don't know, but there's probably quite a few.  The problem is figuring
out how to send a new antiviral agent into a space almost unbelievably
small.  Anything you stick into the blood stream for delivery
automatically gets delivered to every corner of the body, where the
law of unintended consequences kicks in, and there aren't too many
alternate delivery systems for things.

>surely there must be some sort of defensive system for the nerves(what
>about the brain or spinal cord- how r they defended?) that scientists
>can detect and activate?

There *are* a lot of electrolytes and such floating around the nerve
structures, but upsetting the natural order there is an enormously
complicated undertaking, especially if one doesn't intend to court
tragedy.  I know it's not much help, but I am confident that some very
smart people are looking into every possible avenue in treating HSV
and a host of other long time scourges.

>would love to hear what scientists in this field think and how far
>have they progressed

Me, too.  Take care,

Mike
 
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