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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / November 2003Learning from Ashanti DeSilva
Remember her? She's the first Gene Therapy Patient. She had the Genetic malformation equivalent to the acquired Human Immune deficiency Syndrome. I exerpted her treatment below. [In Ashanti's gene therapy procedure, doctors removed white blood cells from the child's body, let the cells grow in the lab, inserted the missing gene into the cells, and then infused the genetically modified blood cells back into the patient's bloodstream. Laboratory tests have shown that the therapy strengthened Ashanti's immune system; she no longer has recurrent colds, she has been allowed to attend school, and she was immunized against whooping cough. This procedure was not a cure; the white blood cells treated genetically only work for a few months, and the process must be repeated every few months. (VII, Thompson [First] 1993). ] So if the current HSV suppressive drugs can locate and affect infected cells, Why can't we appraoch the underlying resiliency of HSV? Namely it's presence in DNA. First, kill back all of the active and dormant HSV particles in Tissue and in Nerve ganglia. Second, Correct genetic tweaks made by HSV so there can be no further replication. Then prevent reinfection by vaccination, education, or cultural cleansing. (just kidding on that last one, really.) : ) Jay >Remember her? > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >First, kill back all of the active and dormant HSV particles in Tissue >and in Nerve ganglia. Sure, simple. Perl will get right on it. >Second, Correct genetic tweaks made by HSV so >there can be no further replication. What "tweaks"? >Then prevent reinfection by vaccination, education, or cultural >cleansing. (just kidding on that last one, really.) : ) Well, JB, there is no vaccine, education will never be up to the task, and your little joke is about on par with your intellect: not funny. But otherwise, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the Nobel Committee notices you lurking here in this support group and bestows its highest awards on you. Mike > Well, JB, there is no vaccine, education will never be up to the task, > and your little joke is about on par with your intellect: not funny. OUCH! > But otherwise, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the Nobel > Committee notices you lurking here in this support group and bestows > its highest awards on you. WOW! Um, Mike, Why are you so angry at me? All I did was try to share. I had a friggin Idea okay. Do you just want to alienate everybody who may have a different outlook than you? Look, I understand that you might be bitter, hell I am too, but don't use the board to trash innocent people just trying to make conversation. I really didn't think I would get lambasted for simply posting on topic discussions to a newsgroup. And perish the though I should have any supportive feedback, from alt.support.herpes. This is the second reply of yours I've read tonight. I hope we can work this out. I was really hoping that you could be someone I could correspond with. But if not, so be it. Jay PS. That concept is sound too. Hmmmm.....well, I certainly don't know what's going on here! Mike is a great guy. I have no idea why he is in a funk these days but hopefully he will be back to his usual self. My personal opinion is that Perl is rubbing him the wrong way. Perl even makes me pissy. I can't stand reading his posts anymore - Perl's that is. I always read Mike's. :) JB, your thoughts are welcome here. I may not decide to try these products, but I'm glad that someone is trying them and is posting their results. We do try not to promote gadgets or creams, or whatever, that claim to CURE the virus. That's just in there to prey on the unsuspecting folks. Take care, ar > > Well, JB, there is no vaccine, education will never be up to the task, > > and your little joke is about on par with your intellect: not funny. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > PS. That concept is sound too. >Hmmmm.....well, I certainly don't know what's going on here! >Mike is a great guy. I have no idea why he is in a funk these days but I blame it on the corn chips! ;-) Seriously though, I had a headache most of yesterday and I woke up this morning and realized why. It's not a long story so here goes... When I was a kid I had a lot of bad headaches and eventually I was trussed up and delivered to a doctor or two who ran a gamut of medieval tests on me and then suggested that I resist the almost irresistable urge to eat Fig Newtons, Fritos corn chips, and one or two other things now forgotten. The suggestions worked! But, of course, the currents of time washed some of those same personal cares from my world and while I never found myself even remotely tempted to eat Fig Newtons (they're for kids!!) I did from time to time indulge in those tasty Frito Lay Corn Chips. Only slowly did I rediscover the wheel and connect recurring headaches with that common snack food. Good for me. But it never occured to me to generalize beyond "Fritos" until this morning. Three days ago I bought a bag of a new (for me) kind of tortilla chip, made with the whole ground yellow corn kernel, instead of the processed white corn chips that I usually buy. Two days ago I made a big tray of nachos with the new chips using my homemade salsa, and, Shazam, yesterday I had that very weird headache that I just could not get rid of. Damn. This a.m., for some reason, I woke and the connection dawned on me. I'm going to toss the rest of that bag of chips and revert to the white corn ones. And be a nicer person to boot. ;-) >hopefully he will be back to his usual self. My personal opinion is that >Perl is rubbing him the wrong way. Perl even makes me pissy. I can't stand >reading his posts anymore - Perl's that is. I always read Mike's. :) Thank you heartily, Ar. Perl is the pork rind of alt.support.herpes. >JB, your thoughts are welcome here. I may not decide to try these products, >but I'm glad that someone is trying them and is posting their results. We >do try not to promote gadgets or creams, or whatever, that claim to CURE the >virus. That's just in there to prey on the unsuspecting folks. >Take care, >ar *You* Take care, Mike Ah, Mike...yes...I understand. I often had anger issues after eating foods that I was allergic to. I spent a lot of time apologizing to people once I made the food connection. :) Glad you're on the way to feeling better. ar > >Hmmmm.....well, I certainly don't know what's going on here! > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Mike > So if the current HSV suppressive drugs can locate and affect infected > cells, Locate isn't quite right, it doesnt really hunt down the infected cells. The levels are just high enough that it reaches the cells, where only the infected ones use up the ACV or whatever drug of choice. Diffusion then does the rest. > Why can't we appraoch the underlying resiliency of HSV? Namely > it's presence in DNA. Lack of knowledge basically. We don;t know enough of what is going on in there. PLus we don't have enough tools to specifically take that DNA circle out and not blast the host cell DNA out. Now in any normal cell this isn't really a problem - kill the cell off by all means - the immune system would do this anyway. With nerve cells its a BIG problem....they dont regenerate and you run out of them eventually. People are trying though. There is a lot of work describing latency and its control mechanisms. Then the idea is to interfere with those mechanisms > First, kill back all of the active and dormant HSV particles in Tissue > and in Nerve ganglia. Second, Correct genetic tweaks made by HSV so > there can be no further replication. Killing or removing the active or latent virus is going to be less easy than simply controlling that state. Now people are trying it once we et more on latency. Antisense molecules might work. > Then prevent reinfection by vaccination, education, or cultural > cleansing. (just kidding on that last one, really.) : ) Our immune reponses raised should be enough to prevent reinfection. Whether they would fade off in the absence of the usual rechallenge by reactiviating virus is an issue. Vaccines unfortunately to date just havent really worked for this virus. Also rememeber the purpose fo a vaccine is to reduce disease....not necessarily reduce infection. That has transmission issues. Tim -- When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart ICQ: 5178568 > > So if the current HSV suppressive drugs can locate and affect infected > > cells, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > infected ones use up the ACV or whatever drug of choice. Diffusion then > does the rest. Bowing to Tim. Tim, I understand now. I've been relying too much on 3D computer generated visualizations of microscopic activity. All the motion and interaction characterization led me to conclude that suppressives act kindof like a US military troop deployed in Iraq. Cruise around and put down any insurgence, then go up into the mountains and beat up the stragglers. Could you explain a little more about how suppressives block the virus's action? > > Why can't we appraoch the underlying resiliency of HSV? Namely > > it's presence in DNA. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > system would do this anyway. With nerve cells its a BIG problem....they > dont regenerate and you run out of them eventually. Whoa! you know, I'm completely comfartable with "we just don't know yet." I was reflecting on all the progress in Genetics and such and what with moore's law we should end all disease in the next few decades. (tounge in cheek - ow, cold sore) I guess I was think progress was moving faster than it is. > People are trying though. There is a lot of work describing latency and > its control mechanisms. Then the idea is to interfere with those [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Tim Tim, thanks for the great explanations, are you in the medical field? Or are you filled with all this help ful information from hours or web searches and long nights of reading? > Cruise around and put down any insurgence, then go up into the > mountains and beat up the stragglers. Could you explain a little more > about how suppressives block the virus's action? The drugs listed for suppressive therapy are Acyclovir and that class. They work by interfering with DNA replication. DNA has 4 letters in it, ACG and T. Acyclovir mimics G. In the body acyclovir gets 3 phosphate groups added to it and then it's incorporated into the developing virus DNA chain. While its good enough to mimic the G to that point it is however defective and once added it basically gunges up the system preventing the virus DNA from being made properly. It doesn't do this to the host DNA because the body cannot add the first phosphate group properly. The enzyme that can do this first addition is the virus' own thymidine kinase protein. That is only present in the virus infected cells....so that gives the specificity. > what with moore's law we should end all disease in the next few > decades. (tounge in cheek - ow, cold sore) I guess I was think > progress was moving faster than it is. HSV has been sequenced and analysed from end to end. The problem with genetics is deciding what is used and what isn't which you can't tell from looking at the DNA strand alone. Also it doesn't tell what host bits are involved. A lot of the focus in the field has shifted over to looking at these pathweays the virus interacts with as well as just looking at the virus. > Tim, thanks for the great explanations, are you in the medical field? Research not medical. Tim -- When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart ICQ: 5178568 > > Cruise around and put down any insurgence, then go up into the > > mountains and beat up the stragglers. Could you explain a little more [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Tim Tim, after rereading the way acyclovir interacts at the dna level in our body, I start to wonder what are the "hidden" fears that researchers like yourself might have regarding such sensitive area of manipulation at that level? I can feel a little uncertainty in the way you've presented the story. Perl Molson > Tim, after rereading the way acyclovir interacts at the dna level > in our body, I start to wonder what are the "hidden" fears that > researchers like yourself might have regarding such sensitive area of > manipulation at that level? > > I can feel a little uncertainty in the way you've presented the story. Uncertainty??? How - OK I haven't given numbers left, right and centre but I don;t want to swamp people in irrelevant details.... The primary worry with this sort of drug (and they aren;t restricted to the herpes field) is that the specificity is poor enough that they might interact with the host's DNA, particularly over a long period of time. Looking at that is a primary piece of data that is poured over frequently. Thus far, its not been a problem. Tim -- When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart ICQ: 5178568 |
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