Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / November 2007
Seven years on...do I have it, or don't I have it?
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None - 03 Nov 2007 21:08 GMT I could have sworn that I checked into the Herpes hotel seven years ago. I had a one night stand, wearing a condom, and then three weeks later I had an outbreak of many little blisters on my upper inner thigh. It wasn't painful or itchy but rather sensitive to the touch. Funny thing is that I have no feeling left on the skin in the area of the outbreak. After three days, I had a culture taken but that proved negative, so I thought OK I did not have herpes. Following that outbreak, I started to feel rather unwell - with flulike symptoms, fatigue, muscle weakness, a low grade fever, headaches - symptoms that persist to this day as if I have chronic fatigue syndrome. Then after a while there were little outbreaks on my other thigh too. This herpes was apparently jumping around from thigh to thigh. I never had an outbreak return to the site of the original outbreak though. I guess all the nerve endings on the skin there are dead and therefore no go zones for the virus. Anyway, to this day, I still feel an itch here and there on both my inner thighs that last a few seconds and then disappear.
Anyway, after much reading about HSV 2, I realised that culture testing is rather unreliable, so I got a non specific type test done about a year and a half later and to my surprise it came back negative. Ofcourse I did not believe the results there as well given my persistent flulike symptoms and various twitches, twinges, aches, itches and other assorted prodomal feelings that I feel to this day.
Over the course of several years I got tested for many other viral infections including HIV, Hepatitis etc. All those results where negative save for CMV. That one showed that I had a past infection sometime in my life.
And last week I got a new non specific IGG/IGM HSV 1 and 2 test and that came out negative as well. I have read that if the non specific HSV 1 and 2 test is negative on both IGG and IGM antibodes then I do not HSV 1 nor HSV 2 - past nor present. I understand if the test result had come back positive then a type specific test would be necessary. But since I have no antibodies to either HSV 1 or 2, then can I assume it to be a reliable indicator of no past or present HSV 1 or 2 infection. Or am I one of those oddballs that just does not produce antibodies to either type of HSV?
So to sum up, I have had three herpes tests, in the last seven years and all of them come back negative. But given the way I feel and having all these 'herpes' symptoms, I wonder if all these tests could have come back as false negatives. Is that possible?
Is asking for a type specific test the next step or is that a waste of time and money given that I tested negative on the non type tests? My doctor already thinks that I am an anxiety-ridden hypochondriac who needs to go on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds to get rid of my supposed Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
I don't know what to think anymore. Could those blisters have been shingles? I hope someone can shed some light on this matter.
Someboy
Yoshi2me - 04 Nov 2007 03:16 GMT What did your doctor tell you?
None - 04 Nov 2007 09:23 GMT > What did your doctor tell you? Every doctor I've seen say that I don't have it. And they don't understand why I keep questioning the test results. I guess the only other thing that it could have been is shingles.
harmony - 05 Nov 2007 07:29 GMT "Anyway, after much reading about HSV 2, I realised that culture testing is rather unreliable, so I got a non specific type test done about a year and a half later and to my surprise it came back negative.
What do you mean by culture test? If it is what I am thinking it is (ie a swab taken of your infected area) then I was actually under the impression that it is the most accurate test for herpes ... but an outbreak must be present when you take the swab. From what I have read, it is blood test results that are known for their inaccuracy.
Harmony http://www.harmonyonline.com.au
None - 05 Nov 2007 13:20 GMT > "Anyway, after much reading about HSV 2, I realised that culture testing > is [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Harmony > http://www.harmonyonline.com.au Yes a swab taken by pricking a blister and drawing the fluid from it. I had the swab done about three days after the blisters appeared. That one was negative too. But contrary to what you say, from what I have read, the swab results can be ineffective. I've read somewhere that they are only 50% reliable and that the swab must be taken within 48 hours of the blisters appearing. That is why why blood tests are done as well in cases of suspected herpes if the swab comes back negative.
I have also read that ELISA IGG antibody testing is supposedly very reliable even if it is non specific, ie., for both hsv1 and hsv2 antibodies. If the ELISA IGG test comes back negative for both hsv1 and hsv2, supposedly one can be extremely sure that they don't have herpes.
If the IGG hsv 1 and hsv 2 test comes back positive, then the next step is to type the virus. That is where the type specific tests come into play as they can test for both hsv 1 IGGs and HSV 2 IGGs.
I think I should ask for a hsv 2 IGG type specific test but I know my doctor is going to think I am crazy given that two non specific IGG tests over the last seven years have come back negative.
Funny thing is, I remember the first doctor at the STD clinic who looked at the blisters on my inner thigh and he was scratching his head because as he told me 'I know when when people have a primary herpes outbreak, they are in a lot of pain and discomfort. In my case, there was no pain, no itch, and no discomfort as the blisters were forming. But they were sensitive to the touch. There was some itching prior to the skin going red, before the blisters appeared and it took several days for them to appear. It was just a very slow process. They never broke, or oozed and there were no open sores. They just dried up after a while and the whole thing healed over after about a month.
Anyway, I can only assume that if it was not herpes then it was shingles or some very nasty bacterial infection. I really need that type specific test done for peace of mind. I guess the next step is to pester my doctor again.
Yoshi2me - 05 Nov 2007 15:32 GMT > Yes a swab taken by pricking a blister and drawing the fluid from it. I > had the swab done about three days after the blisters appeared. Ok, waiting for three days to have the culture done is too long of a wait. You need to get in and have it done within the first 24 hours in order to get the most accurate result.
Yoshi2me - 05 Nov 2007 15:31 GMT Actually, herpes culture tests are quite accurate provided you get in to have them done within the first 24 - 48 hours of the symptoms appearing. After that time frame many people with herpes have come back with false negatives because they waited too long to have the culture done.
Type specific herpes antibody tests are quite accurate in determining if you have herpes and the type provided there are antibodies to be detected.
Hope this helps,
Angela ;)
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> "Anyway, after much reading about HSV 2, I realised that culture > testing is [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Harmony > http://www.harmonyonline.com.au None - 05 Nov 2007 16:45 GMT > Actually, herpes culture tests are quite accurate provided you get in to > have them done within the first 24 - 48 hours of the symptoms appearing. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Angela ;) And what about non type specific tests? Are they accurate or not accurate in determining whether you have any type of herpes antibodies?
Yoshi2me - 07 Nov 2007 14:44 GMT Here is a list of testing that I hear is quite good for determining if you have herpes simplex virus: http://yoshi2me.com/genital-herpes.html
Hang in there,
Angela
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> And what about non type specific tests? Are they accurate or not accurate > in determining whether you have any type of herpes antibodies? M2slo2cht@nospam.invalid - 05 Nov 2007 17:47 GMT Rather than reply to several posts to clear up some confusion, I figured I'd just add a little something here to what Yoshi accurately stated.....
>Actually, herpes culture tests are quite accurate provided you get in to >have them done within the first 24 - 48 hours of the symptoms appearing. In addition to that, positive culture results are almost always accurate no matter when the swab was taken. It's the *negative* results that can be suspect for any number of reasons, but mostly because the swab was taken too late.
>Type specific herpes antibody tests are quite accurate in determining if you >have herpes and the type provided there are antibodies to be detected. Key here is "provided there are antibodies to be detected". In other words, a blood test, taken shortly after infection, may result in a false negative because the immune system hasn't had time to produce antibodies. But most people produce antibodies within 12-16 weeks so after that, a blood test is quite accurate.
>Hope this helps, It did. I just hope I didn't confuse the issue again lol!
>Angela ;) M2 :-)
None - 05 Nov 2007 17:59 GMT On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 11:47:03 -0600, M2slo2cht wrote:
> Rather than reply to several posts to clear up some confusion, I figured > I'd just add a little something here to what Yoshi accurately [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > M2 :-) My first blood test was about a year and a half after the outbreak in 2002 and my second blood test was last week.
Yoshi2me - 05 Nov 2007 15:28 GMT There's no point in guessing what it could be if you've had tons of input from doctors that actually tested you properly. If they didn't test you properly then there's a reason to be retested. But if they've tested you properly then there's no point in dwelling on it. If you are having symptoms that won't go away be sure you stay in constant contact with them and let them know what's going on with you.
>> What did your doctor tell you? > > Every doctor I've seen say that I don't have it. And they don't > understand why I keep questioning the test results. I guess the only > other thing that it could have been is shingles. fireapple@gmail.com - 05 Nov 2007 21:11 GMT I have a similar story. something very herpes-like appeared 2 days after sexual contact, I went to the MD who said it was herpes. I got swabbed and the culture came back negative.
After a year and a half and no outbreak, I had the HSV1/HSV2 type- specific IGG. Also came back negative.
I feel a single slightly itchy bump right now, reminds me of the 'first time' this symptom showd up, I'm so confused as to what is going on.
I'm wondering is there is a different strain of the virus nonreactive to traditional IGG/IGM lab tests??
None - 05 Nov 2007 23:36 GMT On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 13:11:36 -0800, fireapple wrote:
> I have a similar story. something very herpes-like appeared 2 days after > sexual contact, I went to the MD who said it was herpes. I got swabbed [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I'm wondering is there is a different strain of the virus nonreactive to > traditional IGG/IGM lab tests?? I hope not.
harmony - 06 Nov 2007 09:37 GMT "Yes a swab taken by pricking a blister and drawing the fluid from it. I had the swab done about three days after the blisters appeared. "
Interesting. My swab test didn't involved pricking the blisters at all, it was simply a swab of the infected area when sores were present (and to Yoshi's point within 48 hours).
Harmony http://www.harmonyonline.com.au
mamazalama - 06 Nov 2007 20:24 GMT FYI: My herpes tests (the ones that turned out positive) ALWAYS involved taking fluid directly from the blisters. MamaZ
> "Yes a swab taken by pricking a blister and drawing the fluid from it. > I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Harmony > http://www.harmonyonline.com.au None - 06 Nov 2007 21:40 GMT > FYI: > My herpes tests (the ones that turned out positive) ALWAYS involved > taking fluid directly from the blisters. > MamaZ Unfortunately, taking another sample from a blister is not going to happen with me because I've never had another blister since the original outbreak." I can only go the blood test root.
mamazalama - 06 Nov 2007 22:00 GMT I pray it will stay that way for you! I highly doubt you have herpes if that is the case. That would be amazing to get no more blisters! I wish you luck... MamaZ
>> FYI: >> My herpes tests (the ones that turned out positive) ALWAYS involved [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > with me because I've never had another blister since the original > outbreak." I can only go the blood test root. Yoshi2me - 07 Nov 2007 14:49 GMT Just to be clear... a person either has herpes OR they don't have herpes. Just because there are no signs OR symptoms doesn't mean a person can assume that they are free and clear.
Hang in there,
Angela
 Signature www.yoshi2me.com www.yoshi2me.com/sexual-health/ www.yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php www.health.groups.yahoo.com/group/PickingUpThePieces/
>I pray it will stay that way for you! I highly doubt you have herpes if >that is the case. That would be amazing to get no more blisters! I wish >you luck... M2slo2cht@nospam.invalid - 07 Nov 2007 16:06 GMT "None" wrote
>>taking another sample from a blister is not going to happen >>with me because I've never had another blister since the original >>outbreak."
>I pray it will stay that way for you! Me too....
>I highly doubt you have herpes if >that is the case. Whyzat??
>That would be amazing to get no more blisters! No, actually it would be pretty common. In fact most infected people never have an outbreak, which is one reason most herpsters don't have a clue to their true status. And without an outbreak to culture, a blood test would be the only way to know. Some of the older blood tests weren't as accurate as the new ones but a few old ones are still being used. So knowing exactly which blood test you're getting can matter.
>I wish you luck... So do I....
>MamaZ M2
MamaZ - 07 Nov 2007 20:33 GMT Thanks, M2, I stand corrected! MamaZ
> "None" wrote >>>taking another sample from a blister is not going to happen >>>with me because I've never had another blister since the original >>>outbreak." <snip>
>>That would be amazing to get no more blisters! > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > M2 Yoshi2me - 07 Nov 2007 14:48 GMT Since you don't have any signs or symptoms that can be cultured there are accurate herpes blood tests that can be done which I have listed here: http://yoshi2me.com/genital-herpes.html
Angela ;)
 Signature www.yoshi2me.com www.yoshi2me.com/sexual-health/ www.yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php www.health.groups.yahoo.com/group/PickingUpThePieces/
> Unfortunately, taking another sample from a blister is not going to happen > with me because I've never had another blister since the original > outbreak." I can only go the blood test root. Yoshi2me - 07 Nov 2007 14:46 GMT You either have herpes OR you don't have herpes. Not everything that happens down south is due in part to herpes which is why it's important to give your doctor a call. That's the only way you are going to get this figured out.
Good Luck,
Angela
 Signature www.yoshi2me.com www.yoshi2me.com/sexual-health/ www.yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php www.health.groups.yahoo.com/group/PickingUpThePieces/
>I have a similar story. something very herpes-like appeared 2 days > after sexual contact, I went to the MD who said it was herpes. I got [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I'm wondering is there is a different strain of the virus nonreactive > to traditional IGG/IGM lab tests??
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