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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / November 2007

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Seven years on...do I have it, or don't I have it?

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None - 03 Nov 2007 21:08 GMT
I could have sworn that I checked into the Herpes hotel seven years ago. I
had a one night stand, wearing a condom,  and then three weeks later I had
an outbreak of many little blisters on my upper inner thigh.  It wasn't
painful or itchy but rather sensitive to the touch.  Funny thing is that I
have no feeling left on the skin in the area of the outbreak.  After three
days, I had a culture taken but that proved negative, so I thought OK I
did not have herpes.  Following that outbreak, I started to feel rather
unwell - with flulike symptoms, fatigue, muscle weakness,  a low grade
fever, headaches - symptoms that persist to this day as if I have chronic
fatigue syndrome. Then after a while there were little outbreaks on my
other thigh too.  This herpes was apparently jumping around from thigh to
thigh.  I never had an outbreak return to the site of the original
outbreak though.  I guess all the nerve endings on the skin there are dead
and therefore no go zones for the virus. Anyway, to this day, I still feel
an itch here and there on both my inner thighs that last a few seconds and
then disappear.

Anyway, after much reading about HSV 2, I realised that culture testing is
rather unreliable, so I got a non specific type test done about a year and
a half later and to my surprise it came back negative.  Ofcourse I did not
believe the results there as well given my persistent flulike symptoms and
various twitches, twinges, aches, itches and other assorted prodomal
feelings that I feel to this day.

Over the course of several years I got tested for many other viral  
infections including HIV, Hepatitis etc.  All those results where negative
save for CMV.  That one showed that I had a past infection sometime in my
life.

And last week I got a new non specific IGG/IGM HSV 1 and 2 test and that
came out negative as well.  I have read that if the non specific HSV 1 and
2 test is negative on both IGG and IGM antibodes then I do not HSV 1 nor
HSV 2 - past nor present.  I understand if the test result had come back
positive then a type specific test would be necessary.  But since I have
no antibodies to either HSV 1 or 2, then can I assume it to be a reliable
indicator of no past or present HSV 1 or 2 infection. Or am I one of those
oddballs that just does not produce antibodies to either type of HSV?  

So to sum up, I have had three herpes tests, in the last seven years and
all of them come back negative.  But given the way I feel and having all
these 'herpes' symptoms, I wonder if all these tests could have come back
as false negatives.  Is that possible?

Is asking for a type specific test the next step or is that a waste of
time and money given that I tested negative on the non type tests?  My
doctor already thinks that I am an anxiety-ridden hypochondriac who needs
to go on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds to get rid of my supposed
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.  

I don't know what to think anymore.  Could those blisters have been
shingles?  I hope someone can shed some light on this matter.

Someboy
Yoshi2me - 04 Nov 2007 03:16 GMT
What did your doctor tell you?
None - 04 Nov 2007 09:23 GMT
> What did your doctor tell you?

Every doctor I've seen say that I don't have it.  And they don't
understand why I keep questioning the test results.  I guess the only
other thing that it could have been is shingles.
harmony - 05 Nov 2007 07:29 GMT
"Anyway, after much reading about HSV 2, I realised that culture
testing is
rather unreliable, so I got a non specific type test done about a year
and
a half later and to my surprise it came back negative.

What do you mean by culture test?  If it is what I am thinking it is
(ie a swab taken of your infected area) then I was actually under the
impression that it is the most accurate test for herpes ... but an
outbreak must be present when you take the swab.  From what I have
read, it is blood test results that are known for their inaccuracy.

Harmony
http://www.harmonyonline.com.au
None - 05 Nov 2007 13:20 GMT
> "Anyway, after much reading about HSV 2, I realised that culture testing
> is
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Harmony
> http://www.harmonyonline.com.au

Yes a swab taken by pricking a blister and drawing the fluid from it. I
had the swab done about three days after the blisters appeared.  That one
was negative too.  But contrary to what you say, from what I have read,
the swab results can be ineffective.  I've read somewhere that they are
only 50% reliable and that the swab must be taken within 48 hours of the
blisters appearing. That is why why blood tests are done as well in cases
of suspected herpes if the swab comes back negative.

I have also read that ELISA IGG antibody testing is supposedly very
reliable even if it is non specific, ie., for both hsv1 and hsv2
antibodies.  If the ELISA IGG test comes back negative for both hsv1 and
hsv2,  supposedly one can be extremely sure that they don't have herpes.

If the IGG hsv 1 and hsv 2 test comes back positive, then the next step is
to type the virus.  That is where the type specific tests come into play
as they can test for both hsv 1 IGGs and HSV 2 IGGs.

I think I should ask for a hsv 2 IGG type specific test but I know my
doctor is going to think I am crazy given that two non specific IGG tests
over the last seven years have come back negative.

Funny thing is, I remember the first doctor at the STD clinic who looked
at the blisters on my inner thigh and he was scratching his head because
as he told me 'I know when when people have a primary herpes outbreak,
they are in a lot of pain and discomfort.  In my case, there was no pain,
no itch, and no discomfort as the blisters were forming.  But they were
sensitive to the touch.  There was some itching prior to the skin going
red, before the blisters appeared and it took several days for them to
appear. It was just a very slow process.  They never broke, or oozed and
there were no open sores.  They just dried up after a while and the whole
thing healed over after about a month.

Anyway, I can only assume that if it was not herpes then it was shingles
or some very nasty bacterial infection.  I really need that type specific
test done for peace of mind.  I guess the next step is to pester my doctor
again.
Yoshi2me - 05 Nov 2007 15:32 GMT
> Yes a swab taken by pricking a blister and drawing the fluid from it. I
> had the swab done about three days after the blisters appeared.

Ok, waiting for three days to have the culture done is too long of a wait.
You need to get in and have it done within the first 24 hours in order to
get the most accurate result.
Yoshi2me - 05 Nov 2007 15:31 GMT
Actually, herpes culture tests are quite accurate provided you get in to
have them done within the first 24 - 48 hours of the symptoms appearing.
After that time frame many people with herpes have come back with false
negatives because they waited too long to have the culture done.

Type specific herpes antibody tests are quite accurate in determining if you
have herpes and the type provided there are antibodies to be detected.

Hope this helps,

Angela ;)

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> "Anyway, after much reading about HSV 2, I realised that culture
> testing is
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Harmony
> http://www.harmonyonline.com.au
None - 05 Nov 2007 16:45 GMT
> Actually, herpes culture tests are quite accurate provided you get in to
> have them done within the first 24 - 48 hours of the symptoms appearing.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Angela ;)

And what about non type specific tests?  Are they accurate or not accurate
in determining whether you have any type of herpes antibodies?
Yoshi2me - 07 Nov 2007 14:44 GMT
Here is a list of testing that I hear is quite good for determining if you
have herpes simplex virus:
http://yoshi2me.com/genital-herpes.html

Hang in there,

Angela

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> And what about non type specific tests?  Are they accurate or not accurate
> in determining whether you have any type of herpes antibodies?
M2slo2cht@nospam.invalid - 05 Nov 2007 17:47 GMT
Rather than reply to several posts to clear up some confusion, I
figured I'd just add a little something here to what Yoshi accurately
stated.....

>Actually, herpes culture tests are quite accurate provided you get in to
>have them done within the first 24 - 48 hours of the symptoms appearing.

In addition to that, positive culture results are almost always
accurate no matter when the swab was taken.  It's the *negative*
results that can be suspect for any number of reasons, but mostly
because the swab was taken too late.

>Type specific herpes antibody tests are quite accurate in determining if you
>have herpes and the type provided there are antibodies to be detected.

Key here is "provided there are antibodies to be detected".  In other
words, a blood test, taken shortly after infection, may result in a
false negative because the immune system hasn't had time to produce
antibodies. But most people produce antibodies within 12-16 weeks so
after that, a blood test is quite accurate.

>Hope this helps,

It did.
I just hope I didn't confuse the issue again lol!  

>Angela ;)

M2  :-)
None - 05 Nov 2007 17:59 GMT
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 11:47:03 -0600, M2slo2cht wrote:

> Rather than reply to several posts to clear up some confusion, I figured
> I'd just add a little something here to what Yoshi accurately
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> M2  :-)

My first blood test was about a year and a half after the outbreak in 2002
and my second blood test was last week.
Yoshi2me - 05 Nov 2007 15:28 GMT
There's no point in guessing what it could be if you've had tons of input
from doctors that actually tested you properly. If they didn't test you
properly then there's a reason to be retested. But if they've tested you
properly then there's no point in dwelling on it. If you are having symptoms
that won't go away be sure you stay in constant contact with them and let
them know what's going on with you.

>> What did your doctor tell you?
>
> Every doctor I've seen say that I don't have it.  And they don't
> understand why I keep questioning the test results.  I guess the only
> other thing that it could have been is shingles.
fireapple@gmail.com - 05 Nov 2007 21:11 GMT
I have a similar story. something very herpes-like appeared 2 days
after sexual contact, I went to the MD who said it was herpes. I got
swabbed and the culture came back negative.

After a year and a half and no outbreak, I had the HSV1/HSV2 type-
specific IGG. Also came back negative.

I feel a single slightly itchy bump right now, reminds me of the
'first time' this symptom showd up, I'm so confused as to what is
going on.

I'm wondering is there is a different strain of the virus nonreactive
to traditional IGG/IGM lab tests??
None - 05 Nov 2007 23:36 GMT
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 13:11:36 -0800, fireapple wrote:

> I have a similar story. something very herpes-like appeared 2 days after
> sexual contact, I went to the MD who said it was herpes. I got swabbed
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I'm wondering is there is a different strain of the virus nonreactive to
> traditional IGG/IGM lab tests??

I hope not.
harmony - 06 Nov 2007 09:37 GMT
"Yes a swab taken by pricking a blister and drawing the fluid from it.
I
had the swab done about three days after the blisters appeared. "

Interesting.  My swab test didn't involved pricking the blisters at
all, it was simply a swab of the infected area when sores were present
(and to Yoshi's point within 48 hours).

Harmony
http://www.harmonyonline.com.au
mamazalama - 06 Nov 2007 20:24 GMT
FYI:
My herpes tests (the ones that turned out positive) ALWAYS involved taking
fluid directly from the blisters.
MamaZ

> "Yes a swab taken by pricking a blister and drawing the fluid from it.
> I
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Harmony
> http://www.harmonyonline.com.au
None - 06 Nov 2007 21:40 GMT
> FYI:
> My herpes tests (the ones that turned out positive) ALWAYS involved
> taking fluid directly from the blisters.
> MamaZ

Unfortunately, taking another sample from a blister is not going to happen
with me because I've never had another blister since the original
outbreak."  I can only go the blood test root.
mamazalama - 06 Nov 2007 22:00 GMT
I pray it will stay that way for you!  I  highly doubt you have herpes if
that is the case. That would be amazing to get no more blisters!  I wish you
luck...
MamaZ

>> FYI:
>> My herpes tests (the ones that turned out positive) ALWAYS involved
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> with me because I've never had another blister since the original
> outbreak."  I can only go the blood test root.
Yoshi2me - 07 Nov 2007 14:49 GMT
Just to be clear... a person either has herpes OR they don't have herpes.
Just because there are no signs OR symptoms doesn't mean a person can assume
that they are free and clear.

Hang in there,

Angela

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>I pray it will stay that way for you!  I  highly doubt you have herpes if
>that is the case. That would be amazing to get no more blisters!  I wish
>you luck...
M2slo2cht@nospam.invalid - 07 Nov 2007 16:06 GMT
"None" wrote
>>taking another sample from a blister is not going to happen
>>with me because I've never had another blister since the original
>>outbreak."

>I pray it will stay that way for you!

Me too....

>I  highly doubt you have herpes if
>that is the case.

Whyzat??

>That would be amazing to get no more blisters!

No, actually it would be pretty common. In fact most infected people
never have an outbreak, which is one reason most herpsters don't have
a clue to their true status. And without an outbreak to culture, a
blood test would be the only way to know.
Some of the older blood tests weren't as accurate as the new ones but
a few old ones are still being used. So knowing exactly which blood
test you're getting can matter.

>I wish you luck...

So do I....

>MamaZ

M2
MamaZ - 07 Nov 2007 20:33 GMT
Thanks, M2, I stand corrected!
MamaZ
> "None" wrote
>>>taking another sample from a blister is not going to happen
>>>with me because I've never had another blister since the original
>>>outbreak."

<snip>
>>That would be amazing to get no more blisters!
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> M2
Yoshi2me - 07 Nov 2007 14:48 GMT
Since you don't have any signs or symptoms that can be cultured there are
accurate herpes blood tests that can be done which I have listed here:
http://yoshi2me.com/genital-herpes.html

Angela ;)

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> Unfortunately, taking another sample from a blister is not going to happen
> with me because I've never had another blister since the original
> outbreak."  I can only go the blood test root.
Yoshi2me - 07 Nov 2007 14:46 GMT
You either have herpes OR you don't have herpes. Not everything that happens
down south is due in part to herpes which is why it's important to give your
doctor a call. That's the only way you are going to get this figured out.

Good Luck,

Angela

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>I have a similar story. something very herpes-like appeared 2 days
> after sexual contact, I went to the MD who said it was herpes. I got
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> I'm wondering is there is a different strain of the virus nonreactive
> to traditional IGG/IGM lab tests??
 
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