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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / May 2007The meaning of IgG anibody numbers
I scored 38.40 for herpes simplex type I on a blodd antobody teat in January. I tried called the test lab to find out the signifcance of such a high abnormal antibody count and they refused to offer any help or information, saying ask your doctor. Well I have scoured online resources and can not find anything that correlates blood antibody levels to potential or expected system damage and and affect. It must be a well kept secret to keep the malpractice lawyers away from suing the previous so called doctors that either refused to diagnose you in the past or were told not to diagnose you. I have extreme damage from herpes, if fact I am surprised I am still living. I could elaborate on the extent of the damage but I wont right now. Who has any inforamtion on the true meaning of blood antibody level and herpes system infection? This virus does not just stay on the mouth or genitals it spreads! I'm 53 now and had herpes mouth scores as a kid. I live in a very very dangerous State where misdiagnosed patients remain misdiagnosed even when the truth is revealed. Lets hear some facts about the herpes antibody scale, how high can it possibly go and what is the typical road map of infection as the antibody count increases? There must be many many people walking around with herpes damage that have been sold a bill of goods by medical doctors as to what their medical problems are. R. >called the test lab to find out the signifcance of >such a high abnormal antibody count and they refused to offer any help >or information, saying ask your doctor. Did you "ask your doctor"? >can not find anything that correlates blood antibody >levels to potential or expected system damage and and affect. It must >be a well kept secret I don't recall ever seeing a study on it. My guess (and I'm not a doctor) would be the correlation would vary from patient to patient. depending on how active the individual's immune system is. In other words, one patient might pump out more antibodies than another even though they are similarly infected. Generally, an antibody test is used to diagnose an infection. Over a certain level is a yes, under is a no. It's a have it or you don't sort of thing. >I have extreme damage from >herpes, if fact I am surprised I am still living. I'm glad you're alive and sorry to hear of your troubles. Herpes infections are extremely common but serious problems are not. >Who has any inforamtion >on the true meaning of blood antibody level and herpes system >infection? Other than a positive/negative, not me. -shrug- sorry >Lets hear some facts >about the herpes antibody scale, how high can it possibly go and what >is the typical road map of infection as the antibody count increases? Not sure what you mean by "road map of infection". But very little about Herpes is "typical". Seems it affects everyone differently and everyone has a different experience with it. >There must be many many people walking around with herpes damage that >have been sold a bill of goods by medical doctors as to what their >medical problems are. That's not limited to Herpes, unfortunately. The days of depending entirely on a doctor and accepting everything he/she says as gospel are over. They're certainly not always wrong either though. Getting a doc's opinion/advice/counsel is the most important thing you can do. And sometimes a second, third, and fourth opinion as well. It's just that there's still quite a bit about Herpes that western medicine doesn't know. Nobody cares about your health as much as you do though. So you're doing the right thing by finding out all you can with your own research. When you run across the kind of information you're looking for, don't forget to post it here. Meanwhile, I hope someone else here can point you in the right direction. M2 The number of the antibody doesn't have anything to do with anything. In other words if you have a 5.0 or a 38.40 it's all the same thing. The lab was correct in telling you to ask your doctor about it. Angela  Signaturewww.yoshi2me.com www.yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php www.herpes-help.blogspot.com www.PositiveSingles.com/i/af20002361 > The number of the antibody doesn't have anything to do with anything. In > other words if you have a 5.0 or a 38.40 it's all the same thing. The lab [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > --www.yoshi2me.comwww.yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.phpwww.herpes-help.blogspot.comwww. PositiveSingles.com/i/af20002361 Angela, I strongly disagree that the antibody numbers don't have anything to to do with anything. The longer a human is infected with herpes the long it has to migrate and most probably yhe more a person is infected internally the higher the antibody level. That is my hypothesis. The higher the antibody level the more the body is infected. It makes common sense to me. Show me something scientific that explains or fails to explains the meaing of the anti-body level. How amny old people that were infected with herpes before the days of Valtrex never got a diagnoisis and have the virus lingering in their body's for decades? Maybe the medical estabilshment takes a wellit's just too darn ;late in the game to help those old timers , no need to let on that they have a serious herpes infection doing all the damage. With herpes being such a common virus and no treamant until recently what are the long term affects in the central nervous system, etc. I have read where herpes in the centralnervous system causes a multude of common aliments, including psychiatric symptoms. The so called medical establishment likes to pretend that its rare for herpes to migrate to the central nervous system and I flat out do not personaly believe that to be true. For example, examine the blood anti-body level for people diagnosed with mental illness and find out what percentage turn out positive for herpes blood anti-body and at what level of anti-body. Like the movie says, show me the money, I want to to see the facts and real statistics. What about people that have all these hard to treat illnesses..maybe coroners office should complie stats on deceased people and record their herpes antibody level. Then correlate that number back to all the medical afflictions they paid thousands of dollars to treat with no avial. Direct me me to the science on antibody levels. Thanks Rich Hi Rich, What kind of ailments are you talking about? You've been kind of vague. Herpes generally does not migrate once inside the body. It stays in the nerve bundle servicing the location where the infection happened. Now, people who have immunological problems might have some serious problems with herpes infections. But, for many of us, it tends to just be an annoyance. Measuring antibodies generally doesn't indicate the severity of an illness or infection. It is measuring the body's response to the infection. So, the numbers don't mean you have a bigger infection or a smaller one. It is only measuring how your body is reacting to it. As there is no blood test for herpes as a virus, we can only test for the antibodies to see if the body is reacting to the herpes virus. ar >> The number of the antibody doesn't have anything to do with anything. In >> other words if you have a 5.0 or a 38.40 it's all the same thing. The lab [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > science on antibody levels. Thanks > Rich Numbers vary from person to person because of the immune response. Your immune response is going to be different depending on the day, the circumstances, and whether or not you are sick, or healthy. So.. I have to agree with AR and everything that she's said and THAT is what I meant when I said antibody doesn't have anything to do with anything. Somebody that scores high doesn't mean that they have more herpes virus that somebody that scores a little lower. I always thought antibodies were simply used to figure out if you actually have the virus OR not. Now if you are trying to find out if your infection is recent OR not the only way to do that would be to have a positive herpes culture results and a negative type specific herpes antibody test. The reason it would be negative for the blood test and positive for the culture would be because it's a first time infection. Once those antibodies are developed there is no way of knowing which partner you contracted it from. > Hi Rich, > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] >> science on antibody levels. Thanks >> Rich > Hi Rich, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > for herpes as a virus, we can only test for the antibodies to see if the > body is reacting to the herpes virus. Grant, one aliment that herpes infection can cause is death. I had spasmodic torticollis at age 27 and now I find out that hepres is implicated: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5677308-fulltext.html also: http://www.emedicine.com/neuro/topic159.htm http://www.emedicine.com/Radio/topic334.htm http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic3447.htm I read online that the herpes virus was found in 30% of the sample groups autopsied brain tissue and no neurological evidence was indicated proior to death. Also, I had lesions on my head biopsied that were called actinic keratosis and I was given Efudex to treat it. Has anyone ever experienced or seen the effects of using Efudex on herpes simplex infected skin tissue? RIchard Hi Rich, It would be very rare for a herpes infections to cause death. Though, all people die, and herpes is a common infection, but I still would not hypothesize that herpes causes death. The reading on the spasmodic torticollis was interesting. And we are all aware of herpes encephalitis. It is not something that seems to happen often, though it is always good to know the symptoms. And the reason people may have mental disorders associated with herpes is because their coping mechanism may not be good. Being diagnosed with an incurable sexually transmitted disease sucks. Some people handle it better than others. Take care, ar I do not know what >> Hi Rich, >> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > infected skin tissue? > RIchard I just want to state I do not think I got my herpes from sexual contact because I had it as young child with cold sores. I also posted some of my story on the google dystonia group: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.dystonia During mr futile attempts to get properly diagnosed and treated I had a toxic heavy metals and essential elements provoked urine test done and my lithium and boron levels were near rock bottom. Here is a link to the doctors that do this type of testing: http://abcmt.org/ I have also posted messages on the tinnitus support group on google also. If it turns out my brain autopsy is loaded with herpes ( who would ever tell?) theres some more information on the potential affects. I hope not one else gets run around in circles looking for answers from the medical doctors when they have you black listed or what ever the terminology is. Its very very expensive and they probably hope the discougrament of the inflow of medical bills will keep you away. Who sponsors this type of medical abuse system? Is it legal? Who would a person attempt to sue? Who would they even report it to? RIchard >one aliment that herpes infection can cause is death. I'm not sure what your point may be. The Common Cold has also been known to cause death. I don't offhand know the mortality rate but I suspect it's about the same as Herpes. Very very low. But sometimes things just happen. >I had spasmodic >torticollis at age 27 and now I find out that hepres is implicated: I don't know why your doctor wouldn't have mentioned it before. Anyhow, it's very treatable with antivirals. They weren't available when you were 27 but they are now. How did you treat it? >also: >http://www.emedicine.com/neuro/topic159.htm [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >groups autopsied brain tissue and no neurological evidence was >indicated proior to death. Herpes Encephalitis? Interesting. I would have guessed it'd be higher than 30%. I wonder what happened with the other 70%. I'm guessing one reason there's not much information available is because it's just not easy to study a disease with only 2 cases per million population per year. It'd be like trying to find Oral type 2 cases to study. Everybody knows it can happen but, they don't happen often enough to get good reliable stats. >Also, I had lesions on my head biopsied that were called actinic >keratosis and I was given Efudex to treat it. Isn't Actinic Keratosis caused by sun exposure? >Has anyone ever >experienced or seen the effects of using Efudex on herpes simplex >infected skin tissue? I haven't. But now I'm confused. Are you saying your Actinic Keratosis was caused by Herpes and not sun exposure? M2 M2, Spasmodic torticollis is not 'very treatable' unless your doctor knows its caused by herpes and treats you for herpes. See if you find anything about herpes here: http://www.torticollis.org/ I 'treated' mine by using pressure points heat, massage and lots of other things to reduce the pain and suffering. Too bad I wan't told herpes could cause it back in 1977. The reason doctors don't 'mention' things is because they are careful not to contradict other doctors that have you pigeon holed first. The 30% of the autospied brains from a study group where found to have herpes infection but they were never classsified as having herpes encephalitis. Who draws the line when encephalitis occurs? I have read some places you can die if untreated for 18 months and other places I've read death can occur quickly within days. So when does encephalitis occur, when the first virus organism enters a portion of brain tissue? Or how many viruses have to be in brain tissue before the term encephalitis is decided upon? Yes, actinic keratosis is caused by sun damage. And the lesions on my scalp where biopsied and announced actinic keratosis. Do you think I believe that result? No. Efudex has 5-fu anti-cancer ingredient and has a contradiction not to use for herpes simplex. And I used it alot, thinking I had sun damaged skin. Rich Rich, Do you have a question specifically about herpes simplex virus? Do you know your HSV status? In other words, have you been properly tested using accurate herpes tests? It's great to have theories but those theories won't actually wash out without the facts and testing to back it up. Good luck, Angela > Rich, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Angela I had a herpes blood serum antibody test done in January and scored high abnormal positive for HSV I and negative for HSV II. I had previously scored negative on skin culture tests twice years ago. So, unless I am mistaken I do have a HSV I infection in my body. Rich > I had a herpes blood serum antibody test done in January and scored > high abnormal positive for HSV I and negative for HSV II. I had > previously scored negative on skin culture tests twice years ago. So, > unless I am mistaken I do have a HSV I infection in my body. Based on your description so far that's what it would seem like to me too. Were you able to figure out if it was genital herpes type-1 OR oral herpes type-1? Do you have a history of cold sores OR fever blisters? Angela Signaturewww.yoshi2me.com www.yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php www.herpes-help.blogspot.com www.PositiveSingles.com/i/af20002361 > > I had a herpes blood serum antibody test done in January and scored > > high abnormal positive for HSV I and negative for HSV II. I had [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Angela Angela, I only have type I herpes according to my blood antibody test. And if it is herpes that attacked my outer skin it attacked my gentials and mys crotum thickenined and it attacked my lips and head, neck ears and upper body. Like i said the previous skin swipes for herpes virus were reported negative. It the central nervous system and brain invlovement that is extremely serious. I have not had a brain biopsy or a had my spianl fluid checked for herpes virus. Dont ask me why ask the people that were treating me all these years. Rich > I only have type I herpes according to my blood antibody test. And if >it is herpes that attacked my outer skin it attacked my gentials and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >spianl fluid checked for herpes virus. Dont ask me why ask the people >that were treating me all these years. Rich, Your case doesn't sound at all like the norm and there are a number of things about it that don't make sense. With the severity you're experiencing, I'd suggest a second opinion (from a doctor... a specialist).... and a new blood test. You may have had one of the older tests which are known to return inaccurate results. Yes they're still on the market... I don't know why. They have problems distinguishing between type 1 & 2. The newer tests are much more accurate. Normally, Herpes doesn't spread on its own through the body. It needs help by means of autoinnoculation. Maybe that's how yours spread but that's an awful lot of autoinnoculating going on. Anyhow, you're right about nervous system and brain involvment. That can be serious. Has your doctor never suggested getting on Valtrex suppresively? Seems like that'd be a no brainer (pun intended). M2 Ok Rich, that is not how the herpes virus works. You really need to have a conversation with your doctor. Take Care, Angela Signaturewww.yoshi2me.com www.yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php www.herpes-help.blogspot.com www.PositiveSingles.com/i/af20002361 > Ok Rich, that is not how the herpes virus works. > You really need to have a conversation with your doctor. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > --www.yoshi2me.comwww.yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.phpwww.herpes-help.blogspot.comwww. PositiveSingles.com/i/af20002361 Angela, have a conversation with my doctor? If that would have helped me it would have worked long time ago. The blood serum test I had done was a recent reputable lab, not a mail it in yourself test. Also my C reactive protein numbers are very high, about 5 times over the liimit given for maximum value. Do you think doctors help patients or put a higher value protecting each other? R Rich, If you are not happy with the doctor that you are currently seeing then find one that you feel will uphold the promise that they made when they agreed to enter into medical school and complete their residency. Nobody on the internet can help you. All we can do is share what we know based on our own personal experiences. Your situation is complicated. Find somebody that can help you. That person is out there .. you just need to make an extra effort. Angela Signaturewww.yoshi2me.com www.yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php www.herpes-help.blogspot.com www.PositiveSingles.com/i/af20002361 > Rich, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Angela > Angela it would most definately have to be a doctor licensed in another state out of this juridiction or possibly even on out the country. Has anyone else ever had their C Reactive Protein blood levels tested to check for excesive inflammtion caused by systemic herpes infection? Rich >> Angela it would most definately have to be a doctor licensed in another >> state out of this juridiction or possibly even on out the country. Has >> anyone else ever had their C Reactive Protein blood levels tested to >> check for excesive inflammtion caused by systemic herpes infection? > Rich Um...no. Why don't you contact the University of Washington in Washington State and see if one of the on site herpes experts OR one of the infectious disease specialists can help you? Angela >> Angela it would most definately have to be a doctor licensed in another >> state out of this juridiction or possibly even on out the country. Has >> anyone else ever had their C Reactive Protein blood levels tested to >> check for excesive inflammtion caused by systemic herpes infection? > Rich > Why don't you contact the University of Washington in Washington State and > see if one of the on site herpes experts OR one of the infectious disease > specialists can help you? > > Angela Angela, that won't work. Once another american hospital or clinic or doctor gets you in for evaluation they are far more interested in who has alreay seen you and treated you than telling you what you have and treating it and documneting on your record, including health insurance record. It may surprise you but if someone in the know here wants to verify it even the insurance companies may forbid the attending doctors from revealing your diagnosis or treating it. There are good books on amazon.com covering medical malpractice and they may go into detail on 'how it's done' here in America. Here is a link to a good website you may already know about: http://www.ihmf.org/ rich Rich, The people at the University of Washington are some of the more herpes knowledgeable people. If you have questions about the herpes virus, these people are the ones to talk to. If you truly want answers, then I would think you'd want to ask the right people. ar >> Why don't you contact the University of Washington in Washington State >> and [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > http://www.ihmf.org/ > rich It's not all a conspiracy theory contrary to what you might think Rich. People get second opinions all the time. I think you are keeping yourself from getting the answers that your body deserves to have. > It's not all a conspiracy theory contrary to what you might think Rich. > People get second opinions all the time. > I think you are keeping yourself from getting the answers that your body > deserves to have. I am posting a link to a medical malpractice lawyers website that has written some booklets about it: http://www.vamedmal.com/ click the link on the top left for medical malpractice and you will come across this statement: "How the medical profession bands together to keep you from winning your case;" If that is not a conspiracy then maybe I don't know the definition of the word conspiracy. Unfortunately, when you have herpes bad enough to cause psychiatric disorders the medical community uses those labels as your diagnosis. I read that lyme disease can cause any of the disorders listed in the psychairtric billing bible the DSM and I imagine that herpes can do the same. Once you're in the 'mental illness' category the other medical doctors have a very big advantage in not diagnosisng your underlying medical condition. Rich Not all doctors are bad. It's up to you to find a good doctor. Try not to be so defensive when you go in to see one. Good luck, Angela Signaturewww.yoshi2me.com www.yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php www.herpes-help.blogspot.com Because having herpes doesn't define you! >> It's not all a conspiracy theory contrary to what you might think Rich. >> People get second opinions all the time. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > underlying medical condition. > Rich > Not all doctors are bad. It's up to you to find a good doctor. Try not to be > so defensive when you go in to see one. > > Good luck, > > Angela Angela, all I can tell you is if you have herpes stay out of the Virginia Medical System: http://hamptonroads.com/pilotonline/special/doctors/ Also, does anyone have exprience with having had herpes type I spread to the scalp and what effect it had. The skin membrane tissue is different from muscous membrane and I would like to know more about that. Richard > Also, does anyone have exprience with having had herpes type I spread > to the scalp and what effect it had. The skin membrane tissue is > different from muscous membrane and I would like to know more about > that. > Richard Unless you've had the area on your head cultured for HSV you have no idea if that is even a herpes outbreak on your head. If you need to find out what's going on with the skin on your head then you'll need to see a doctor. If you are not happy with your doctor then what you need is a second opinion. It might be a good idea for you to get a second opinion from a doctor in another healthcare system. >Has anyone else ever had their C Reactive Protein blood levels tested >to check for excesive inflammtion caused by systemic herpes infection? Problem is, CRP can be elevated by practically anything that causes inflamation. In other words, the test might even be trying to tell you you're at risk for coronary heart disease. Who knows? Frankly, I'd try some other route. M2 |
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