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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / October 2003

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Q. for Sati about Natrum Muriaticum

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Perl Molson - 23 Oct 2003 15:01 GMT
Hi, Sati, I have a feeling that this might be "the end of the herpes
story".

After Rhux Toxicodendron, which, I've taken about a year- year and a
half ago,
I had never experienced tongelling and such, immediately after taking
a half a dosen
of this homeopatic pills.

However, I still have ocasionally cold sores, mostly on the corner of
my mouth.

I bet if I will take the homeopathic pill named in the title, I might
get
cured for good.

Anyway, I am looking forward to take the Natrum Muriaticum homeopathic
pill.
Any adittional comments on this one?

P.S. Yeah, I went on a "aggressive peanuts daily basis trial test
survival HV doze" and you know,
HV just seems to love peanuts. :O)

Cheers, Perl Molson

From: Sati (Sati@prodigy.net)
Subject: Re: HSV on toothbrushes/M.L.S.
View: Complete Thread (2 articles)  
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.support.herpes
Date: 2000/06/14


Mike wrote in message ...
>>>Replace your toothbrush. Your trusty toothbrush can harbor the
>>herpes virus for days, reinfecting you after the present cold
>>sore heals.

This 'appeared' to happen to me just yesterday!  I had a 'cold sore'
on one
side of my mouth (in the corner) - I'm fairly certain it was
'herpetic' in
nature.  It appeared to heal up, but yesterday I broke out with a sore
on
the other side (corner) of my mouth! (I had NOT replaced my
toothbrush).
Perhaps this is just coincidental, but Mike seems to be on to
something
here...
PS: After 1 dose of Natrum Muriaticum (a homeopathic remedy) last
night...today no sores anywhere!!
I am now using the "Listerine in the glass" routine, after I
brush...thanks
to Evelyn!  Thanks again, Ev!!
Love,
Sati
om
>Mike

http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&newwindow=1&threadm=8
i8qcj%242ki4%241%40newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com&rnum=7&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D%2Bh
erpes%2B%2522Natrum%2BMuriaticum%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-
8%26newwindow%3D1%26selm%3D8i8qcj%25242ki4%25241%2540newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.
com%26rnum%3D7

Angela - 23 Oct 2003 17:28 GMT
Perl,

There is *no-way* to wipe out the herpes virus from your body.

There are ways to treat herpes but not to completely wipe it out.

Angela
Perl Molson - 23 Oct 2003 22:54 GMT
Natrum and natron, was used in the embalming process, in Egipt.

<snip>
..."The body is then pickled in natrum for the prescribed number of
days, on the last of which the oil is drained off. The effect of it is
so powerful that as it leaves the body it brings with it the stomach
and intestines in a liquid state, and as the flesh, too, is dissolved
by the natrum, nothing of the body is left but the bones and skin.
After this treatment it is returned to the family without further
fuss. The third method, used for embalming the bodies of the poor, is
simply to clear out the intestines with a purge and keep the body
seventy days in natrum. It is then given back to the family to be
taken away. When the wife of a distinguished man dies, or any woman
who happens to be beautiful or well known, her body is not given to
the embalmers immediately, but only after the lapse of three or four
days"...

<snip>

http://www.theology.edu/egypt1.htm
Ancient Egypt
       When we speak of Sumeria, we are still so close to the
beginning of extra-biblical recorded history, that it is difficult to
determine the priority or sequence of the many related civilizations
that developed in the Ancient Near East.
       Until recently, the oldest written records known to us were
Sumerian. But according to an Associated Press Report of December 15,
1998, clay tablets discovered in southern Egypt may represent the
earliest known writings. They were found in the tomb of a king named
Scorpion, and date from the pre-dynastic period (that is, the time
before Egypt was unified into one kingdom and there were rulers known
as pharaohs). Gunter Dreyer, of the German Archaeological Institute,
announced that the tablets thus far discovered and deciphered record
linen and oil deliveries made about 5300 years ago, paid as taxes to
Scorpion. These tablets have been dated to between 3300 and 3200 BC.
This discovery, thus challenges the widely held belief that the first
people to write were the Sumerians of Mesopotamia.
       However, it remains clear that the Egyptians derived certain
aspects of their culture from Sumeria and Babylonia (though writing
might have been independently invented in both places). We know for
certain that trade passed between the two regions. A look at a map
explains why Egypt throughout its known history has belonged more to
western Asia than to Africa: trade and culture could pass from Asia
along the Mediterranean to the Nile, but shortly beyond that it was
blocked by the desert which, with the cataracts of the Nile, isolated
Egypt from the remainder of Africa.

Sumerian Influences

       The further back the Egyptian language is traced, the more
affinities it reveals to the Semitic languages of the Ancient Near
East. The pictographic writing of the predynastic Egyptians seems to
have come from Sumeria. The cylindrical seal, which is clearly of
Mesopotamian origin, appears in the earliest period of known Egyptian
history, and then disappears. Copper was developed in western Asia and
then it was brought to Egypt.
       Egypt can well afford to concede priority to Sumeria. For
whatever the Nile may have borrowed from the Tigris and Euphrates, it
soon flowered into a civilization specifically and uniquely its own.
       The life of Egypt is the Nile River. Without the Nile, Egypt
could never have existed. Each year the river inundates the
surrounding landscape, about the time of summer solstice (June 20th or
so) and it lasts for 100 days. Through this overflow, the desert has
become fertile, and Egypt has blossomed.
       Nowhere else in the world is a river so generous in
irrigation, and so controllable in its rise. Only Mesopotamia comes
close, and there the rise is hardly predictable and is far more
destructive.

Neolithic Period

       Called the new stone age, this is dated to the era between
8000 and 4000 BC. Communal life in Egypt had its beginnings along the
Nile river about the same time that the Neolithic settlers were
pioneering the Sumerian mud flats and marshes. In other words, this
occurred shortly after the scattering at the tower of Babel. The
richness of the alluvial soil made it possible for these early
communities to exist along the entire length of the Nile, while the
favorable climatic conditions encouraged their growth and development.
Unfortunately, heavy deposits of mud in the lower reaches of the Nile
valley have prevented archaeologists from recovering more than the
merest traces of these predynastic times. But in Upper Egypt, three
sites identified with the modern villages of Badari, Deir Tasa, and
Nagada have preserved Neolithic artifacts that apparently date as far
back as 5000 BC.
       The pottery excavated from Deir Tasa was very rough in nature,
showing uneven patches of coloring on the outside that apparently were
the result of poor temperature control when the pottery was being
fired. The shape of the articles varied from shallow rectangular
containers to beakers with a rounded base and a projecting rim at the
top. A great many of the ceramic objects were distinguished by
patterns of various sorts, but in the main the pottery designers
confined their artistic efforts to modifications of simple geometric
patterns. Grains of barley and wheat were recovered from Tasian
settlements, along with the saddle querns that were used to grind the
cereals to flour. Despite these evidences of an approach to a
sedentary economy, a scattering of flint arrowheads and fishhooks made
from shell or horn indicates that the staple foods were gained by
hunting and fishing. Excavations at the six-acre site of Merimdeh, a
few miles north of Cairo, uncovered artifacts from the same period as
those of Deir Tasa, and in addition furnished evidence of the
domestication of pigs, cattle, sheep, and goats.
       About 4000 BC Tasian culture took on a more elaborate form,
which first appeared near Badari, in Middle Egypt, during Chalcolithic
times. Though seminomadic, the Badarians made serious attempts to
cultivate grain and develop the domestication of animals. There is
some evidence that their economy was influenced by trade, for they
used an eye paint made from powdered green malachite that was probably
imported from the Sinai Peninsula. Badarian pottery was of exquisite
texture and design, with bowls and beakers forming the main types of
surviving vessels. Some vases were made from basalt, while ivory was
used for small bowls, ladles, and female figurines. The Badarians are
thought to have possessed a degree of familiarity with the
malleability of copper, although they apparently did not understand
the fusion of metals.
       In the middle of the fifth millennium BC, the Badarians were
succeeded in Upper Egypt (i.e., the south) by the Amrateans, who mark
the real commencement of the predynastic period (c. 4500-3100 BC).
They were more sedentary in nature than their predecessors, and they
are thought to have been the first to attempt systematic cultivation
of the Nile valley. In the Nagada I stage of Upper Egyptian culture,
they became quite prominent, and expanded along the entire course of
the Nile. Excavation of Amratean sites has shown that they cultivated
and wove flax as well as manufactured a wide assortment of small
copper tools and implements. Their basalt and alabaster vases were
generally inferior to those of the Badarians, however, and in
metallurgy they gave no indication of technical advances upon their
predecessors.
       In the Nagada II phase, the Gerzean influence spread from
Lower Egypt (i.e., the north), and paved the way for an urban and
economic revolution in the upper reaches of the Nile. They were
probably the first of the predynastic peoples to institute trade with
Mesopotamia and India, and they were responsible for a wide expansion
of agriculture. Whereas Amratean culture had depended on hunting to
supplement the food derived from the cultivation of crops, the Gerzean
economy was based wholly on agriculture, in which artificial
irrigation probably played an important part. Cast-metal implements
and weapons unearthed at Gerzean sites show that they had mastered the
art of casting metal, and the use of copper in this period is
indicative of extended trade with localities outside the Nile valley
itself. From Asian sources came silver, lapis lazuli, lead, and other
commodities, while cylinder seals that have been recovered from
Gerzean graves are probably contemporary Mesopotamian products.
Cosmetic techniques as practiced by the Badarians and Amrateans were
developed in Gerzean culture, and palettes made in the shape of
various animals were widely used for the pulverizing of green kohl or
malachite for cosmetic purposes.
       The advent of foreign influences has been seen in the presence
of innovations in dress, ornaments, and implements. Flint knives and
daggers were altered in shape and design, while radical changes took
place in the manufacture of pottery. Decorated vases of light-colored
clay, on which various patterns in shades of red and brown were
painted, replaced the red pottery ornamented with white paint which
had been the typical ceramic ware of the Amratean period. There were
also significant changes in the matter of burials. Whereas cemeteries
that dated from an earlier period showed that the corpse was generally
wrapped in some sort of covering and buried in a contracted position
facing the west, those which were located in Gerzean deposits
indicated a lack of regular orientation, a more elaborate form of
grave, and evidences of ritual procedure at the time of burial in the
form of deliberately shattered pottery.

PREDYNASTIC EGYPT

       One of the most important contributions to the development of
predynastic Egypt was the expansion of community life that took place
in Gerzean times. This was the basis of the territorial divisions or
"nomes" (as the classical writers called them: "nomes" is a word
derived from the Greek word for "law": nomos). These nomes were often
tantamount to small kingdoms. Each nome or district had a special
object of cult worship consisting of a sacred animal or plant, which
became the emblem or fetish of the territory. The depicting of these
nome emblems on pottery, and the inclusion of animal figures in the
hieroglyphic nome designation of various gods led scholars to the
conclusion that a totemistic form of religion existed during the early
and predynastic period of Egyptian history.
       Totanism is a complex of ideas and practices based on the
belief in kinship or a mystical relationship between men and natural
objects, such as animals and plants. The term totem comes from the
Ojibwa (Algonkian Indian) word ototeman, signifying a brother-sister
blood relationship. Totemism refers to a wide variety of
relationships, including the reverential and genealogical, between
social groups or individual persons and animals or other natural
objects, the so called totems. It has been centrally important in the
religion and social organization of many so-called primitive peoples,
such as college students. For instance, I am a Bruin, not because I
have claws and a fuzzy face, but simply because I attended UCLA.
Fraternities often have this aspect to them.
       Certainly the predynastic inhabitants of Upper Egypt
worshipped a composite animal as the cult object of the god Set, and
the reverencing of the ram or goat, which was common in all periods of
Egyptian religion, had its origin at this time. But the most that can
be said with certainty is that a modified form of fetishism (belief in
objects with magical power) and totemism characterized predynastic
Egyptian religion.
       The regional divisions ultimately accumulated to the point
where there were twenty nomes in Lower Egypt (i.e., the Delta region)
and twenty-two in Upper Egypt. The discovery of an elaborate tomb at
Hieraopolis, the seat of the Horus cult in Upper Egypt, gave rise to
speculation that kingship came into being at this period. Decorated
palettes recovered from the same site were found to portray a kingly
personage in association with clan totems, lending further support to
this conclusion. During the Gerzean period the nomes of Egypt
combined, with the result that two powerful states, Upper and Lower
Egypt, came into being. Gerzean culture dominated Upper Egypt for a
time, and may even have effected a temporary union of the Two Lands.
But the first single rule over a unified kingdom was that of Menes of
Thinis (Upper Egypt -- south), which marked the beginning of the
Protodynastic Period (c. 3100-2890 BC).

First Dynasty

c. 3100 BC

       The division of Egypt into south and north (upper and lower)
may have reflected a conflict between African natives and Asiatic
immigrants. The dangerous accentuation of geographic and ethnic
differences was resolved for a time when Menes brought the "Two lands"
under his united power, promulgated a body of laws that he claimed had
been given to him by Thoth, and established the first historic
dynasty.
       He built his capital at Memphis, and according to Diodorus
Siculus (first century BC Greek historian, author of the universal
history, Bibliotheca historica of which only books one through five
and 11 through 20 survive, out of 40) he, "taught the people to use
tables, and couches, and...introduced luxury and an extravagant manner
of life."

Third Dynasty

       Imhotep, an ancient Egyptian priest and vizier, served as
architect and court official to King Zoser of the Third Dynasty
(c.2686-2613 BC). His titles indicate that he was not of royal birth,
but he was later deified--one of few nonroyals to achieve that
distinction. As the chief sculptor and chief carpenter of Zoser,
Imhotep is connected with Zoser's famous step pyramid complex at
Saqqara. This complex, which includes the step pyramid itself, a
burial chamber, a mortuary temple, and the court of the Heb Sed
(festival of renewal), was, according to the late Egyptian writer
Manetho, the first Egyptian building in stone. Manetho credits Imhotep
with this invention.
       Imhotep later came to be regarded as a sage, author of wisdom
literature, and patron of scribes, and under the 26th dynasty (664-525
BC) he was deified. Many statuettes from the Late Dynastic Period show
him seated with a scroll on his lap. He was identified by the Greeks
with Asclepius, the god of healing; thousands flocked to his temples
in search of cures.
       Imhotep's tomb was probably at Saqqara.

Fourth Dynasty

c. 2613-2494 BC

       Khufu (Greek Cheops) is the most important pharaoh of the
Fourth Dynasty. Herodotus, the Greek Historian, has passed onto us the
traditions of the Egyptian priests concerning this builder of the
first of Gizeh's pyramids:

       Up to the time of Rhampsinitus, Egypt was excellently governed
and very prosperous; but his successor Cheops (to continue the account
which the priests gave me) brought the country into all sorts of
misery. He closed all the temples, then, not content with excluding
his subjects from the practice of their religion, compelled them
without exception to labor as slaves for his own advantage. Some were
forced to drag blocks of stone from the quarries in the Arabian hills
to the Nile, where they were ferried across and taken over by others,
who hauled them to the Libyan hills. The work went on in three-monthly
shifts, a hundred thousand men in a shift. It took ten years of this
oppressive slave-labor to build the track along which the blocks were
hauled -- a work, in my opinion, of hardly less magnitude than the
pyramid itself, for it is five furlongs in length, sixty feet wide,
forty-eight feet high at its highest point, and constructed of
polished stone blocks decorated with carvings of animals. To build it
took, as I said, ten years -- including the underground sepulchral
chambers on the hill where the pyramids stand; a cut was made from the
Nile, so that the water from it turned the site of these into an
island. To build the pyramid itself took twenty years; it is square at
the base, its height (800 feet) equal to the length of each side; it
is of polished stone blocks beautifully fitted, none of the blocks
being less than thirty feet long. The method employed was to build it
in tiers, or steps, if you prefer the word -- something like
battlements running up the slope of a hill; when the base was
complete, the blocks for he first tier above it were lifted from
ground level by cranes or sheerlegs, made of short timbers; on this
first tier there was another lifting-crane which raised the blocks a
stage higher, then yet another which raised them higher still. Each
tier, or story, had its crane -- or it may be that they used the same
one, which, being easy to carry, they shifted up from stage to stage
as soon as its load was dropped into place. Both methods are
mentioned, so I give them both here. The finishing-off of the pyramid
was begun at the top and continued downwards, ending with the lowest
parts nearest the ground. An inscription is cut upon it in Egyptian
characters recording the amount spent on radishes, onions and leeks
for the laborers, and I remember distinctly that the interpreter who
read me the inscription said the sum was 1600 talents of silver. If
this is true, how much must have been spent in addition on bread and
clothing for the laborers during all those years the building was
going on -- not to mention the time it took (not a little, I should
think) to quarry and haul the stone, and to construct the underground
chamber?
       But no crime was to great for Cheops: when he was short of
money, he sent his daughter to a bawdy-house with instructions to
charge a certain sum -- they did not tell me how much. This she
actually did, adding to it a further transaction of her own; for with
the intention of leaving something to be remembered by after her
death, she asked each of her customers to give her a block of stone
and of these stones (the story goes) was built the middle pyramid of
the three which stand in front of the great pyramid. It is a hundred
and fifty feet square.
       Khufu ruled Egypt for fifty years, according to Herodotus, and
then was succeeded after his death by his brother Khafre (Chephren)
       Herodotus records the following about Khafre:

       Chephren [Khafre] was no better than his predecessor; his rule
was equally oppressive, and, like Cheops, he built a pyramid, but of a
smaller size (I measured both of them myself). It has no underground
chambers, and no channel was dug, as in the case of Cheops' pyramid,
to bring to it the water from the Nile. The cutting of the canal, as I
have already said, makes the site of the pyramid of Cheops into a
island, and there his body is supposed to be. The pyramid of Chephren
lies close to the great pyramid of Cheops; it is forty feet lower than
the latter, but otherwise of the same dimensions; its lower course is
of the colored stone of Ethiopia. Both these pyramids stand on the
same hill, which is about a hundred feet in height. Chephren reigned
for fifty-six years -- so the Egyptians reckon a period of over a
hundred and six years, all told, during which the temples were never
opened for worship and the country was reduced in every way to the
greatest misery. The Egyptians can hardly bring themselves to mention
the names of Cheops and Chephren, so great is their hatred of them;
they even call the pyramids after Philitis, a shepherd who at that
time fed his flocks in the neighborhood.
       "All the world fears time," says the Arab proverb. "But time
fears the pyramids."
       However, the pyramid of Khufu has lost twenty feet of its
height and all its marble casing is gone. Perhaps time is merely
leisurely with it. Actually, it has been estimated, that if the
pyramids are left to themselves, they will disintegrate within about a
hundred thousand years.
       Next to Khufu's pyramid, and nearly as tall, is Khafre's; its
summit is still ringed with the granite which once covered the whole
thing.
       Beyond this is the pyramid of Khafre's successor, Menkaure; it
is covered with brick.
       Herodotus' characterization of these two men, Khufu and Khafre
may not be accurate. Egyptian writers did not have these bad things to
say about them, and in fact the priests that Herodotus was talking to
might have actually been thinking of Ikhnaton, the only Egyptian we
know of who did close the Egyptian temples and stop worship of the
gods.
       Why did these men build the pyramids?
       Their purpose was not architectural, it was religious. The
pyramids were tombs, linearly descended from the most primitive of
burial mounds.
       The Pharaoh believed, along with the rest of his people, that
every living body was inhabited by a double or KA, which need not die
with the body, and that the KA would survive more completely and
comfortably if the flesh were preserved against hunger, violence, and
decay.
       The pyramid, by its height, its form, and its position, sought
stability as a means of achieving deathlessness. Except for its square
corners, the pyramid took the natural form any homogenous group of
solids would take if allowed to fall unimpeded to the earth.
       The stones are patiently piled, as if they were gathered from
nearby, rather than from quarries hundreds of miles away. In Khufu's
pyramid there are approximately two and a half million blocks, some
weighing one hundred fifty tons; the average weight of the blocks is
two and a half tons. They cover a million square feet, and rise 481
feet into the air. The mass is solid. Only a few blocks are omitted,
to leave a secret passageway to the king's carcass.

EXCURSUS: PYRAMIDOLOGY

       1. Some believe you can predict the history of the world with
the Pyramid.

       Simply not the case; this was a favorite diversion by one of
the founders of the Jehovah's witnesses; it often joins with
British-Israel leanings and is popular in old Armstrongism (the
current World Wide Church of God is now orthodox and evangelical),
Jehovah's Witnesses, and Gene Scott.
       To arrive at this perspective on things, it is necessary to
take Isaiah 19:19-20 out of context and assume that it refers to the
pyramid, an interesting stretch to say the least. It also requires
some interesting rearrangements of Egyptian history, for instance
claiming that the "shepherd kings" the Hyksos, actually arrived around
the time of Khufu and influenced him to shut down worship of the pagan
deities, worship only one God, and to build the pyramid, which was
actually designed by God and is a sign to the world.
       This is completely untrue.

       2. The shape preserves or restores things.

       Reality: Meat rots just as fast under a pyramid as under a
box.

       3. Aliens built it.

       Herodotus explains quite plainly who built the pyramids, and
it wasn't aliens. Since there is a simple and reasonable explanation
for the pyramids, following the principle of Occam's razor leads us to
reject the alien hypothesis. Since the pedestrian explanation is
simpler and matches what we know of Egyptian history, there is no
reason to go with something bizarre.

Back to the KA

       Since the KA was conceived of as the minute image of the body,
it had to be fed, clothed, and served after the death of the frame.
       Lavatories were provided in some royal tombs for the
convenience of the departed soul. One suspects that Egyptian burial
customs, if traced to their source, would lead to the primitive
internment of a warrior's weapons with his corpse, or to some
institution like the Hindu suttee -- the burial of a man's wife and
slaves with him so that they might attend to his needs in the
afterlife.
       This having proven bothersome to the wives and slaves,
painters and sculptors were engaged to draw pictures, carve bas
reliefs, and make statues resembling these aids.
       By a magic formula, usually inscribed upon them, the carved or
painted objects could then become as effective as the real ones.
       A man's descendants were inclined to be lazy and economical,
and even if he had left an endowment to cover the costs, they were apt
to neglect the rule that religion originally put upon them of
supplying the dead with provisions and were likely to start
provisioning themselves instead.
       Therefore, pictorial substitutes were in any case a wise
precaution; they could provide the KA of the deceased with the fertile
fields, plump oxen, innumerable servants and busy artisans at an
attractively reduced rate.
       Having discovered the principle, the artist accomplished
marvels with it. One tomb picture shows a field being plowed, the next
shows the grain being harvested or threshed, and another shows the
bread being baked; one shows the bull copulating with the cow, another
the calf being born, another the grown cattle being slaughtered, and
finally another the meat being served hot on the dish.
       A fine limestone bas-relief in the tomb of prince Rahotep
portrays the dead man enjoying the varied food on the table before
him.
       Never since has art ever done so much for people.
       Finally, the KA was assured long life not only by burying the
cadaver in a sarcophagus of the hardest stone, but by treating the
corpse itself to the most painstaking process of mummification. The
Greek historian Herodotus describes the process:

       Embalming is a distinct profession. The embalmers, when a body
is brought to them, produce specimen models in wood, painted to
resemble nature, and graded in quality; the best and most expensive
kind is said to represent a being whose name I shrink from mentioning
in this connection; the next best is somewhat inferior and cheaper,
while the third sort is cheapest of all. After pointing out these
differences in quality, they ask which of the three is required, and
the kinsmen of the dead man, having agreed upon a price, go away and
leave the embalmers to their work. The most perfect process is as
follows: as much as possible of the brain is extracted through the
nostrils with an iron hook, and what the hook cannot reach is rinsed
out with drugs; next the flank is laid open with a flint knife and the
whole contents of the abdomen removed; the cavity is then thoroughly
cleansed and washed out, first with palm wine and again with an
infusion of pounded spices. After that it is filled with pure bruised
myrrh, cassia, and every other aromatic substance with the exception
of frankincense, and sewn up again, after which the body is placed in
natrum, covered entirely over, for seventy days -- never longer. When
this period, which must not be exceeded, is over, the body is washed
and then wrapped from head to foot in linen cut into strips and
smeared on the underside with gum, which is commonly used by the
Egyptians instead of glue. In this condition the body is given back to
the family, who have a wooden case made, shaped like the human figure,
into which it is put. the case is then sealed up and stored in a
sepulchral chamber, upright against the wall. When, for means of
expense, the second quality is called for, the treatment is different:
no incision is made and the intestines are not removed, but oil of
cedar is inject with a syringe into the body through the anus which is
afterwards stopped up to prevent the liquid from escaping. The body is
then pickled in natrum for the prescribed number of days, on the last
of which the oil is drained off. The effect of it is so powerful that
as it leaves the body it brings with it the stomach and intestines in
a liquid state, and as the flesh, too, is dissolved by the natrum,
nothing of the body is left but the bones and skin. After this
treatment it is returned to the family without further fuss. The third
method, used for embalming the bodies of the poor, is simply to clear
out the intestines with a purge and keep the body seventy days in
natrum. It is then given back to the family to be taken away. When the
wife of a distinguished man dies, or any woman who happens to be
beautiful or well known, her body is not given to the embalmers
immediately, but only after the lapse of three or four days. This is a
precautionary measure to prevent the embalmers from violating the
corpse, a thing which is said actually to have happened in the case of
a woman who had just died. The culprit was given away by one of his
fellow workmen. If anyone, either an Egyptian or a foreigner, is found
drowned in the river or killed by a crocodile, there is the strongest
obligation upon the people of the nearest town to have the body
embalmed in the most elaborate manner and buried in a consecrated
burial-place; no one is allowed to touch it except the priests of the
Nile -- not even relatives or friends; the priests alone prepare it
for burial with their own hands and place it in the tomb, as if it
were something more sacred than the body of a man.
       Natron, used in the embalming process, was Silicate of Sodium
and Aluminum: Na2Al2Si3O102H2O
       Look at Genesis 50:26; Joseph was mummified.
       Kings were very plentiful in Egypt. They are lumped together
therefore into dynasties -- monarchs of one line or family; but even
then, it is a burden to remember them all, because there are an awful
lot of dynasties, too.

Sixth Dynasty

       One of these early Pharaohs, the fifth king of the Sixth
Dynasty, was Pepi II Neferkare, (c. 2345-c.2181 BC). During his long
reign the government became weakened because of internal and external
troubles. Late Egyptian tradition states that Pepi II acceded to the
throne at the age of six, and, in accord with the lists of the New
Kingdom, credits him with a 94 year reign. Contemporary texts record
his 62nd and 65th year.
       Pepi II was a son of Pepi I and was born late in his father's
reign. While still very young he succeeded his half-brother Merenre,
who died at an early age. His mother served as co-regent for a number
of years, and the old group of officials serving the royal family
maintained the kingdom's stability. Expeditions of trade and conquest
to lower Nubia and Punt (the Somali coast of Africa), however, met
with resistance, and the signs of external trouble are unmistakable.
       Internally, the vizierate passed from the family that had
served Pepi's predecessors and descended through a number of other
officials. The excessive devotion of resources to funerary endowments
drained the country's resources. Further, powerful provincial nobles
drew talent away from the capital. Biographies of the era reveal that
Pepi had more interest in duties toward the dead than concern for the
kingdom. finally, because of the unusually long reign of the King,
Egypt had a senile ruler when it needed vigorous leadership. Those of
his children who survived Pepi had brief, ephemeral reigns and failed
to cope with the political and economic crises that arose as the Sixth
Dynasty ended.
       The feudal barons ruled the nomes independently. This is
called the First Intermediate Period. After this "Dark Age" of about
four hundred chaotic years, a strong-willed king arose and set things
severely in order. He moved the capital from Memphis to Thebes, and
under the title Ammenemes I, inaugurated the 12th dynasty, during
which all the arts, except perhaps architecture -- reached a height of
excellence never equaled in Egypt before that.

The Hyksos

       Toward the end of the 12th dynasty Egypt plunged into another
period of disorder started over a dispute among rival claimants to the
throne.
       Thus, the Middle Kingdom ended with two hundred years of
turmoil and disruption.
       Then the Hyksos arrived. They were nomads from Asia who found
a disunited Egypt ripe for the plucking. According to the Egyptian
records after the events (and their objectivity in these matters is
obviously non-existent), the Hyksos set fire to the cities of Egypt,
destroyed the temples, and squandered the long accumulated wealth and
art of the nation. For two hundred years they subjugated the native
population, who referred to them as "the Shepherd Kings". (Since the
Egyptians hated shepherds -- cf. Genesis 43:32 and 46:34 -- this was
quite an insult. It is possible that the Egyptian dislike for
shepherds is a consequence of the Hyksos oppression, in which case
these references in Genesis would be powerful arguments for a late
date for the time of the Exodus)
       Ultimately, the Egyptians rose against their oppressors and
drove the Hyksos from their land. Thus, they established the 18th
dynasty (c. 1552 - 1306); this dynasty lifted Egypt to a period of
greater wealth, power and glory than they had ever known before.

       Thutmose I (1506-1493 as sole ruler; 1493-1475 as a co-ruler
with his daughter)

       The new pharaoh, Thutmose I, consolidated the power of the new
empire; on the ground that Western Asia must be controlled to prevent
a repetition of the Hyksos disaster, he invaded Syria and subjected it
to Egyptian control from the coast of the Mediterranean all the way to
Carchemesh. He forced them to pay tribute and returned to Thebes
loaded down with the spoils and glory that always come from killing
lots of people.
       After a time he raised his daughter Hatshepsut to partnership
with him on the throne. After he died, Hatshepsut's husband, known as
Thutmose II (who was also her step-brother) ruled as the new Pharaoh.
He soon died, and on his deathbed made Thutmose I's son by a concubine
the successor. He became known as Thutmose III.
       Hatshepsut pushed Thutmose III aside (he was still quite
young), and took the throne for herself. She became king in everything
but gender, and even this was not entirely conceded by her. Since the
tradition of Egypt was that every Egyptian ruler must be the son of
the god Amon, Hatshepsut quickly set about finding a way to make
herself both male and divine.
       As Sweden was still many years away from existing, and
sex-change operations were still quite primitive, an easy solution did
not present itself. But still, for the determined, there are always
ways...
       She had a biography constructed to explain her ascension. It
seems that Amon had descended upon Hatshepsut's mother, Ahmasi in a
flood of perfumed light. Ahmasi, of course, received his attention
with excitement and gratefulness. Amon was so favorably impressed by
Ahmasi that on his departure he announced to the amazed woman that she
would give birth to a very special daughter who would be gifted with
all the valor and strength of the god Amon.
       This convenient story alone was not enough to satisfy either
the people of Egypt or Hatshepsut; although all the official
inscriptions about her refer to her with feminine pronouns, they also
did not fail to refer to her as "the Son of the Sun" and the "Lord of
the Two Lands." More significantly, whenever she appeared in public
she dressed in men's clothing and she wore a fake beard.
       She was able to rule both peacefully and successfully for
twenty-two years.

       Thutmose III

       When finally Hatshepsut faded from the mortal scene, Thutmose
III at last took his place on the throne of Egypt. His was not a
peaceful reign at all. As is not uncommon during transition times in
multi-ethnic empires, the outlying districts took the transfer of rule
as a convenient time to attempt to make a break for it. Syria revolted
within days of Hatshepsut's death.
       Now Thutmose III was only twenty-two years old, but he
marshaled his army together and set out through Kantara and Gaza,
marching twenty miles a day to confront the rebel forces at Mount
Megiddo (Har Megiddo in Hebrew, a place referred to as Armageddon in
the New Testament). This is a highly strategic location, where
numerous battles have been fought over the years. Thutmose succeeded
in putting down the revolt, and proved himself a not ineffective
pharaoh.

       The Heretic King

       The pharaoh who came to be known as the Heretic king was first
called Amenhotep IV (or Amenophis IV -- one will find that there is
some variation in how Egyptian names are transliterated). His father
was Amenhotep III, the king who had succeeded Thutmose III. Amenhotep
III died about 1374 BC, after living a life of worldly luxury and
conspicuous consumption.
       Amenhotep IV had hardly taken the throne from his father
before he began a radical reform of Egyptian religion and lifestyle.
He revolted against the religion of Amon and the practices of Amon's
priests. For instance, in the temple at Karnak there was a large harem
which supposedly served as the concubines of the god Amon. In reality,
they served the sexual appetites of Amon's earthly representatives,
the priests.
       Amenhotep IV apparently led a life of fidelity and morality,
and he was deeply offended by this sacred prostitution. He was also
troubled by the priests' traffic in magic and charms, and by their use
of the Oracle of Amon to support religious obscurantism and political
corruption.
       Thus, Amenhotep IV rebelled against the sordidness of this
religion, especially the indolent and wealthy priesthood and their
mercantile hold over a gullible and superstitious populous.
       Therefore, Amenhotep IV announced that Amon and all the other
gods of Egypt, along with their ceremonies, were merely vulgar and
empty idolatry and that such worship was now to be forbidden.
Amenhotep IV announced that there was only one true God and all the
others were false. The one true God he called Aton, and he portrayed
the disk of the sun as the only representation of that God. He argued
that Aton belonged to all nations equally, and that Aton cared for all
the nations of the world equally. In fact, in a list he composed of
the nations under Aton's watchful care, Egypt is stuck in the middle,
without any special recognition or honor.
       Amenhotep changed his name to Akhenaten (also sometimes
transliterated, especially in older sources, as Ikhnaton), which means
"Aton is satisfied". Akhenaten ordered the names of all other gods
erased and chiseled from all public inscriptions in Egypt. He even had
his father's name mutilated and cut out of hundreds of monuments in
order to rid those monuments of the word Amon.
       Akhenaten declared that all creeds but his own were illegal
and closed all the old temples. Then he moved the capital city of
Egypt from Thebes and constructed a new capital at Akhetaton (the City
of Aton), because he believed Thebes was unclean due to all its past
idolatry.
       At one blow Akhenaten managed to alienate and dispossess a
powerful and wealthy priesthood, not to mention the merchants and
manufacturers who depended on idolatry for their livelihoods.
Furthermore, he offended the people at large, who had long worshipped
all the gods of Egypt and were in no mood to change their religion.
       Not surprisingly, therefore, behind the scenes the priests
plotted, while in their homes the people continued to worship their
ancient and innumerable gods, all the while praying for the quick
demise of the heretic and blasphemer who now sat on the throne of
Egypt. Even in the palace, his ministers and generals hated him and
prayed for his death and perhaps took steps to try to hurry it along.
       This hatred for Akhenaten was no due only to his heresy; he
was also allowing the mighty Egyptian empire to crumble. During his
reign Egypt lost control of Syria-Palestine, the buffer region that
had been conquered to prevent a repetition of the Hyksos.
       The letters written by the governor's of the cities of
Syria-Palestine during Akhenaten's reign describe their invasion by
nomads called "Habiru"; these letters were discovered in the ruins of
Akhenaten's city and they demonstrate the unwillingness and perhaps
the inability of Akhnaten's Egypt to come to the aid of its
protectorates. We will look at these letters in greater detail a
little later in this discussion.
       For now, let's take another look of Akhenaten's religion,
specifically a portion of what has come to be called the Hymn to the
Sun, which gives us a sense of Akhenaten's faith:

When you rise in the eastern horizon,
You fill every land with your beauty....
Thought you are far away, your rays are on the earth;
Though you are in the face of men, your footsteps are unseen....
When you shine as Aton by day
you drive away the darkness....
How many are your works!
They are hidden before men,
O sole God, beside whom there is no other....
You set every man in his place,
You supply their necessities....
How benevolent are your designs, O Lord of Eternity!
You make the seasons...
Winter to bring them coolness,
And heat so that they may taste you.
       Some have compared this poem with Psalm 104, and it is a
remarkable expression of monotheism, one of the only expressions that
we find outside of Israel.
       On top of the religious reformation under Akhenaten, there was
also a rather significant, even radical change occurring in Egyptian
art. New aesthetic concepts were introduced which resulted in more
relaxed, less formal representations of the human figure. Where
before, the paintings of human beings showed them in rigid, stylized
poses, their legs facing one way, their torsos another, in what is the
stereotypical Egyptian manner, under Akhenaten, suddenly the pictures
become realistic, in proper proportion and angles. The change also
extended to statuary and one of the finest pieces of Egyptian art is
the bust of Nefertiti (Akhenaten's wife and queen), a very realistic
and eloquent portrayal showing the obvious beauty of the queen.
       So beautiful was she, the story is told that the sculptor who
made the bust fell in love with Nefertiti and kept putting off the
finishing of the sculpture so that he could keep the bust in his
house.
       As we've already pointed out, Akhenaten's reforms were not
greeted with pleasure, so when he died (at a relatively young age --
so there is some speculation about whether he might have been
poisoned) around 1362 BC, the pent-up forces of the suppressed
Egyptian religion broke out in a fanatical attempt to restore the
ancient traditions.
       Akhenaten's reforms were swept away, his new capital was
abandoned, and the cult of Amun was restored to its former position of
authority.
       The period immediately following Akhenaten's death was marked
by further deterioration in Egyptian power and the subsequent rise of
Hittite influence in Syria-Palestine. Political realities doubtless
were responsible for the subsequent marriage of Akhenaten's widow,
Nefertiti to one of the sons of Suppiluliuma, the king of the
Hittites. This is the first recorded instance of an Egyptian royalty
marrying someone who was not Egyptian. The traditionalists won this
round, however. While Suppiluliuma's son was on his way to Egypt for
the wedding, he was murdered -- creating a rather troubling
international incident to say the least.
       At this juncture, Tutankhaton (the famous king Tut -- famous
only because his is one of the few intact royal tombs ever unearthed),
the husband of the Akhenaten's third daughter, ascended the throne and
managed to exert some control over the situation. Obeying the dictates
of popular feeling, he removed his capital back to Thebes, and changed
his name to Tutankhamun (Beautiful in life is Amun) so as to eradicate
from it all traces of the hated Atonic religion. He did not stay on
the throne for long, however; he was only eighteen years old when he
died. But he got a fantastic funeral and was buried with great pomp
and gratitude by the priests for restoring the Amun priesthood and the
traditional way of life.
       Below is reproduced a love poem from Tutankhamun's era (note
that the word "sister" is used as a term of endearment; it doesn't
mean that the lovers here were actually brother or sister, though
among royalty, such marriages were not uncommon.):

Seven days have passed since last I saw my sister,
And a sickness has invaded me.
My body has become heavy,
It is like it belongs to some stranger instead of to me.
When the chief of the physicians comes to me,
My heart is not content with his remedies;
The priests of divination offer no hope, either:
My sickness is beyond their probes.
To say to me, "Here she is!" -- this is what will revive me.
Her name is what will lift me up;
Her messengers coming in to announce her arrival
Is what will revive my heart.
My sister is more beneficial to me than any medical cure;
She is more to me than the collected wisdom of the ancients.
My health is found in her return.
When I see her, then I am well.
If she opens her eye, my body is young again.
If she speaks, then I am strong again.
When I embrace her, she drives trouble from me --
But alas, she has been gone for seven days!
       The Song of Songs (cf. 2:5 and 5:8) may be compared to this
poem. Its words are one of the earliest expressions we have of
romantic love, demonstrating, if such demonstration were truly
necessary, that the ancients were not so very different from
ourselves. As the apostle James wrote about the prophet Elijah, he was
"a man just like us." (James 5:17).
       Just how opulent King Tut's burial might be was unclear until
Howard Carter discovered it in 1922. Although Tutankhamun was actually
a rather minor pharaoh, the artifacts from his tomb are some of the
most splendid Egyptian antiquities ever unearthed. Part of what makes
them so spectacular is simply the fact that his was an intact tomb,
one that the graverobbers had somehow managed to miss.
       In 1922 the excavators opened several anterooms containing an
astonishing array of furniture, ornaments, clothing, weapons, and food
for the departed king, and in the following year, before a
distinguished audience, the door leading to the sepulchral chamber
proper was broken down and the burial shrine itself was revealed.
       Beyond this chamber lay a second shrine, whose doors were
bolted and sealed, and close by was a treasure chamber in which a
large chest, guarded by beautifully executed statues of four Egyptian
deities, contained the mummified internal organs of the king. When the
burial chamber itself was finally explored later that year, it was
found to comprise an enormous yellow quartzite sarcophagus covered
with religious inscriptions and topped with a rose granite lid. When
this was removed, a spectacular golden effigy of the young king was
revealed, and beside the religious symbols worked into the forehead
was a tiny wreath of flowers, which is guessed to be the last gift of
the grieving young queen for her dead husband.
       This outermost coffin enclosed a second of equal splendor, and
within this was the third and last, made of solid gold decorated with
jewels. The mummified corpse of the king himself was decorated with
objects of gold and precious stones. All this opulence illustrates,
perhaps, both the high esteem with which the established religion held
the king, as well as the enormous amount of wealth possessed by the
royal families of ancient Egypt.





http://www.theology.edu/egypt1.htm

> Hi, Sati, I have a feeling that this might be "the end of the herpes
> story".
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
>
> http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&newwindow=1&threadm=8
i8qcj%242ki4%241%40newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com&rnum=7&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D%2Bh
erpes%2B%2522Natrum%2BMuriaticum%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-
8%26newwindow%3D1%26selm%3D8i8qcj%25242ki4%25241%2540newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.
com%26rnum%3D7
Guy - 27 Oct 2003 04:49 GMT
Well, Perl...I'd suggest you try this out then.  Get embalmed!  You seem to
go for anything else.    ::grin::

Hang in
-G

> Natrum and natron, was used in the embalming process, in Egipt.
>
[quoted text clipped - 871 lines]
> > om
> > >Mike

http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&newwindow=1&threadm=8
i8qcj%242ki4%241%40newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com&rnum=7&prev=/groups%3F

q%3D%2Bherpes%2B%2522Natrum%2BMuriaticum%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8
%26oe%3DUTF-8%26newwindow%3D1%26selm%3D8i8qcj%25242ki4%25241%2540newssvr05-e
n0.news.prodigy.com%26rnum%3D7
Grant - 23 Oct 2003 23:50 GMT
Hi Perl,

Sati hasn't been around for a long time.  I'll try to remember to send her
an email and let her know that you asked her a question.

Yes, she has been taking the Rhux and she does believe that it will cure
her.

But so far, no one has been cured.

I don't know about the other item you mentioned.

ar

> Hi, Sati, I have a feeling that this might be "the end of the herpes
> story".
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
> om
> >Mike

http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&newwindow=1&threadm=8
i8qcj%242ki4%241%40newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com&rnum=7&prev=/groups%3F

q%3D%2Bherpes%2B%2522Natrum%2BMuriaticum%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8
%26oe%3DUTF-8%26newwindow%3D1%26selm%3D8i8qcj%25242ki4%25241%2540newssvr05-e
n0.news.prodigy.com%26rnum%3D7
M.L.S. - 24 Oct 2003 01:05 GMT
<snip>

>Mike wrote in message ...
>>>>Replace your toothbrush. Your trusty toothbrush can harbor the
>>>herpes virus for days, reinfecting you after the present cold
>>>sore heals.

I didn't actually "write" that about the toothbrush.  The comments
came from an article that was written by someone else years ago, which
I posted years ago, and which caused some discussion here years ago.

Regular toothbrush change is a good idea no matter what one's personal
beliefs about viruses and bacteria.

Mike
Perl Molson - 24 Oct 2003 07:58 GMT
> <snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Mike

Thanks to all that have answered, including Angela, she has the right
for an opinion.

The topic wasn't about the toothbrush issues but good points anyway.

Going back to the main topic here, I will purchase hopefully tommorow
the homeopathic pill Natrum Muriaticum.

Also, as David have suggested some months ago, I made today
an infusion from Black Walnut and applied to the exterior sore, even
rince my mouth quite intense with the solution.

An hour or so afterwards I used garlic oil made also by myself about a
year
ago, now I have strained it using a cheese cloth, for the first time.
It seem it had worked perfect I'd say on my genitals over a year ago,
when I have treated genital herpes succesfully.

Hopefully the garlic oil it's still effectiv right now after a year of
storing
in a glass jar.
If not, I will definitely make another such solution of garlic oil.

Considering that I have used Mellissa Officinalis Pure oil before and
it seems that I am not cured yet on my oral herpes, I have used a tiny
bit
of Rose Oil Pure, even, if these will not work out I kind of will run
off
super options ( as I believe these methods are, considering my genital
"cure"- definition in quotation marks, rather acceptable in Angela's
terms ;O), I' d say ).

Anyway, to finish my post, the origin of my current oral outbreak
seems to be due to drinking very hot tea drinks and
being exposed to very cold (below 0 degree Celsius) winds for an
extended
period of time.
Drinking hot teas were my own negligence.

Cheers to all and I will return with the results as soon as I have
them materialised.

Yeah, I know; it must be easier to just take the prescribed pill.
Well, that's not part of my philosophy of life.

Perl Molson

> <snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Mike
M.L.S. - 24 Oct 2003 12:16 GMT
<snip>

>An hour or so afterwards I used garlic oil made also by myself about a
>year
>ago, now I have strained it using a cheese cloth, for the first time.
>It seem it had worked perfect I'd say on my genitals over a year ago,
>when I have treated genital herpes succesfully.

>Hopefully the garlic oil it's still effectiv right now after a year of
>storing
>in a glass jar.
>If not, I will definitely make another such solution of garlic oil.

As dumb as I think you are, Perl, I'd hate for you to hurt yourself
with your home remedies.

Be very careful with that garlic oil of yours, as garlic stored in oil
for more than a week or so is a well known potential source of
botulism, or more correctly, the botulinum toxin which causes
botulism.

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/NEW00120.html
http://www.foodpres.com/oil.htm
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/english/iyh/food/garlic.html

Take care,

Mike
Perl Molson - 25 Oct 2003 07:09 GMT
> <snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Mike

> <snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Mike

Yeah, that's me, Perl; alive 'n kikin'. Dumb as you think I am (whatever)

Botulism I would say it's rather rare and if it would happen ( I don't want
to follow a scenario with my types of oils) would be most likely tragic.

Anyway, I do not see how that particular Valtrex at all are so great, too.

First of all you are like a diabetic depending upon the insuline.

Secondly, we do not now for sure what side effects might bring to
a person. (maybe a f.cked-up liver?)
I've just taken the first sample of Natrum Muriaticum pills
and I am ready to try Sepia homeopathic pill, as well, in case this one won't work.

Taking Valtrex and all that crap would make me feel like a loser.

Trying and experimenting such homeopathic/naturistic things would cure my
herpes one day or another; I have no doubt about it.
It takes a lot of time and patience to be able to learn
about this huge field related to the herpes infection.

All of my experiments are harmless with no side effects.

Perl Molson
Grant - 25 Oct 2003 10:51 GMT
Perl,

First of all, stop offending me.  I do not take the pills.  I don't have
outbreaks.  Quit making statements about all of us in here wanting to take
only the pills.

ar

> > <snip>
> >
[quoted text clipped - 78 lines]
>
> Perl Molson
M.L.S. - 25 Oct 2003 15:18 GMT
> M.L.S. posted:

>> http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/NEW00120.html
>> http://www.foodpres.com/oil.htm
>> http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/english/iyh/food/garlic.html

>Botulism I would say it's rather rare and if it would happen ( I don't want
>to follow a scenario with my types of oils) would be most likely tragic.

It's your life, Perl, but making garlic oil the way you did carries
risk, and botulism is not something you want to play with.  And
besides, there's little point in soaking the garlic for more than a
day or two anyway, especially if you chop or crush the cloves.
Additionally, if garlic has any beneficial health effects at all, it
only makes sense that *fresh* garlic is more likely to abound in
whatever makes garlic garlic than six month old garlic submerged in
oil.

Why don't you just get a small food processor and make your own garlic
paste on demand?  A little garlic, a little oil, and leave the blade
running until it's as smooth as... and rub it on your lips.

>Anyway, I do not see how that particular Valtrex at all are so great, too.

Fortunately most people aren't so willfully blind.  There is much
evidence that Valtrex works and has few (and minor) side effects.  And
unlike your six month old garlic oil, taking Valtrex carries NO risk
of loss of motor control and death from inability to breath.

>First of all you are like a diabetic depending upon the insuline.

That's crap, Perl.  Most people with herpes that I know don't take
Valtrex OR smear themselves with weird vegetable pastes.  I highly
recommend Valtrex and Acyclovir for people with recurrent and/or
otherwise severe outbreaks, or to protect their uninfected partners,
but I myself (and most people with HSV) have never felt the need to be
more than slightly proactive in damping down herpes's enthusiasm.
Just last week I talked the object-of-my-affection OUT of her
continued taking of Valtrex, after I found out she was popping those
pills one after another because she thought she was protecting me from
different herpes strains.  As far as I know her "withdrawal" has been
completely uneventful, unlike what would happen were your simile above
valid.

>Secondly, we do not now for sure what side effects might bring to
>a person. (maybe a f.cked-up liver?)

Sorry, Perl, there is absolutely no evidence that Valtrex poses any
risk to livers.  On the other hand there is a lot of evidence that
steeping garlic in oil for several months can produce botulinum toxin
and that botulinum toxin can kill you.

>I've just taken the first sample of Natrum Muriaticum pills
>and I am ready to try Sepia homeopathic pill, as well, in case this one won't work.

What is your criteria for what works and what doesn't, and how do you
rule out other factors in your testing?

>Taking Valtrex and all that crap would make me feel like a loser.

The fear of "feel[ing] like a loser" is strictly an adolescent fear
and in most people is quickly set aside in favor of a rational
approach to dealing with one's maladies.  I hardly think that relying
on the best that modern scientific endeavor can produce is somehow
less noble than smearing your face and genitals with roots and
berries.

>Trying and experimenting such homeopathic/naturistic things would cure my
>herpes one day or another; I have no doubt about it.

Your faith is quaintly touching but as far as I can tell you are doing
nothing more innovative than thousands of others before you have
already tried.  Of course, I always say, a positive attitude is nearly
half the battle, and you have that.

>It takes a lot of time and patience to be able to learn
>about this huge field related to the herpes infection.

>All of my experiments are harmless with no side effects.

You hope.

Mike
Perl Molson - 26 Oct 2003 08:48 GMT
> What is your criteria for what works and what doesn't, and how do you
> rule out other factors in your testing?

Firstly, thanks for your answers ( and questions).
Here is my opinion on the matters.

If something works for you as a healer, you'll know it, right?

It is quite obvious what works for you as a treatment if
you pay a little attention to details.

I have read somewhere that in psychiatry, the
medication called 'Haldol' have been used with
success even though the way it worked was not known.

The same theory I can understand to be eventually applied in
explaining homeopathy.

Secondly, if you have a tingling caused by herpes and no matter what
you've been
trying to do it will recur now and then, but if you take Rhux
Toxicodendron
homeopathic pills like I did, 'you' might get cured of those symptoms
as mentioned.

Now it is too early for me to say what the other homeopathic pills
will do, but like I've started my topic, I will know it for good once
I will get better.
(and I can see the difference, you know).

The homeopathic stuff may act similarly as the vaccination
in some cases and improve your immune system, as assumed by
pratitioners.

It can be just self hypnosis, it can be other things, I am assuming
that, taking those homeopathic pills can eventually impact
me differently then without using them.
Different enough to eventually cure my herpes problems.

Homeopathy can eventually interact at the subconcious level in a way
that,
as I've said earlier, will impact the immune system through a
mind-body
interaction upon the direct cause of the disease.

That is how right now I see these things.
So once you take a particular homeopathic pill and you know what is it
meant to
be taken for ( like in the case of Nat Mur), at your subconcious
level, you kind of activate the thought-body interaction that will,
through unknown way
act upon the similar problem in your body.

The salt (Nat Mur is  diluted salt), usually can make the lips dry and
other type of symptoms similar to those caused by herpes. Taking Nat
Mur will provoke the immune system,
"commanded at a subconcious level", to deal with the similar problems.

You cannot just put a f.cking cherry under your tongue and expect
to get the same results as with a homeopathic pill.

Perl Molson
M.L.S. - 26 Oct 2003 14:35 GMT
>> What is your criteria for what works and what doesn't, and how do you
>> rule out other factors in your testing?

> Firstly, thanks for your answers (and questions). Here is my opinion
> on the matters.

> If something works for you as a healer, you'll know it, right?

With diseases that recur episodically, like herpes, the short answer
is:  No, you won't.

Without specialized diagnostic tools there is no objective way to know
whether your outbreaks are less frequent and less severe because of
the goofy things you smear on yourself, or if fewer, milder outbreaks
aren't just the well documented propensity of the disease to recur
less frequently and less severely the longer one has it.  I defy you
to tell the difference.

Practicing on yourself, you can't even reliably know whether you
reduced healing time, or if you just had a milder episode.  Without
clairvoyance you can't know if the "itch" that didn't turn into an
outbreak was a prodrome that your walnut juice stopped, or whether it
was just a mild episode, or whether it was just an itch.

The reason that scientists and other people of intelligence are so
interested in and insistence upon things like clinical trials is
precisely because even the most objective single observer CAN'T
reliably separate causality from coincidence.

> It is quite obvious what works for you as a treatment if you pay a
> little attention to details.

The "details" of the herpes virus measure less than 200 nanometers
(200 billionths of a meter) and are far beyond the scope of your
"attention".

> I have read somewhere that in psychiatry, the medication called
> 'Haldol' have been used with success even though the way it worked was
> not known.

So what?  Trial and error has found many things that can be used with
success, but *you* aren't doing anything that hasn't been tried and
found to be less than conclusive a thousand times before.

> The same theory I can understand to be eventually applied in
> explaining homeopathy.

That's nonsense.  The fact that trial and error finds working
solutions (usually after large numbers of failures) does nothing to
explain homeopathy, which is a different approach to treating disease
altogether.

> Secondly, if you have a tingling caused by herpes and no matter what
> you've been trying to do it will recur now and then, but if you take
> Rhux Toxicodendron homeopathic pills like I did, 'you' might get cured
> of those symptoms as mentioned.

And if I dress in purple and skip around the block singing nursery
rhymes I might win the lottery, too.

> Now it is too early for me to say what the other homeopathic pills
> will do, but like I've started my topic, I will know it for good once
> I will get better. (and I can see the difference, you know).

You do know that we herpes sufferers generally experience fewer
outbreaks of lesser duration the longer we have the disease, don't
you?  I think it's quite likely that you are spending a lot of time
and effort in convincing yourself that you are causing to happen that
which would happen without all your time and effort anyway.

> The homeopathic stuff may act similarly as the vaccination in some
> cases and improve your immune system, as assumed by pratitioners.

It is extremely unlikely that homeopathic substances work in any way
similar to a vaccination.

The only thing I'll grant you is that all your fiddling *may* help
your immune system, but then again, some of the crap you try *may* do
just the opposite, your best intentions notwithstanding.

> It can be just self hypnosis, it can be other things, I am assuming
> that, taking those homeopathic pills can eventually impact me
> differently then without using them. Different enough to eventually
> cure my herpes problems.

You can call it "self hypnosis" if you like, but I hope you won't mind
if I call it self-delusion.

> Homeopathy can eventually interact at the subconcious level in a way
> that,  as I've said earlier, will impact the immune system through a
> mind-body interaction upon the direct cause of the disease.

Your subconcious, if there is such a thing, has no ability to act upon
submicroscopic viruses hiding in nerve cells.

> That is how right now I see these things. So once you take a
> particular homeopathic pill and you know what is it meant to be taken
> for ( like in the case of Nat Mur), at your subconcious level, you
> kind of activate the thought-body interaction that will, through
> unknown way act upon the similar problem in your body.

Your "subconcious level" is nothing more than admission that the items
you're ingesting don't do anything, and that, despite complete lack of
any reason for doing so,  you're going to continue to believe that
wishful thinking will carry the day.

> The salt (Nat Mur is  diluted salt), usually can make the lips dry and
> other type of symptoms similar to those caused by herpes. Taking Nat
> Mur will provoke the immune system, "commanded at a subconcious
> level", to deal with the similar problems.

The immune system doesn't work at the command of the "subconcious".
It works via an extremely complex yet extremely rigorous set of
concrete interactions that scientists are increasingly capable of
investigating and describing.  Homeopaths, apparently, are capable of
little more than invoking entities as nebulous as the "subconcious" to
buttress their simpleminded assertions.

The response that the body mounts to deal with dry lips caused by
ingesting salt is different than the response mounted to deal with dry
lips caused by the herpes virus.  To equate the two responses based on
initial symptoms is exactly this:  simple minded.

> You cannot just put a f.cking cherry under your tongue and expect to
> get the same results as with a homeopathic pill.

It is far more likely that both will give exactly the same results,
except the cherry will taste better.

Mike
Perl Molson - 27 Oct 2003 03:55 GMT
>  
> >> What is your criteria for what works and what doesn't, and how do you
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> With diseases that recur episodically, like herpes, the short answer
> is:  No, you won't.

I will try to answer but I will also try to find a better
answer another time. I cannot right now, find the most reasonable
explanation on how I can see a clear impact on a treatment
related to the healing speed.

> Without specialized diagnostic tools there is no objective way to know
> whether your outbreaks are less frequent and less severe because of
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> > It is quite obvious what works for you as a treatment if you pay a
> > little attention to details.

> The "details" of the herpes virus measure less than 200 nanometers
> (200 billionths of a meter) and are far beyond the scope of your
> "attention".
>  

I was not trying to talk about such type of details.
I meant the way you can see how better you feel even though
you continue the same pattern you are presumming to be the trigger
of the outbreak.
For example, imagine if your trigger would be eating peanuts with beer.
Normally, once the OB will be noticeable, you will stop eating peanuts
with beer, right. Most of us probably know that, very well.
You must stop and you will.

Unless, if you figured out a way to deal with the symptom caused
by such trigger as mentioned above, in this case you can still
persist in "eating peanuts with beer"( until you get a stomac ache ;O) ).
Obviously, the treatmet that you have presumably used, worked and
it is noticeable.
In other words YOU KNOW IT.

There are lots of triggering factors but that is another story
for another topic, which hopefully, we will analize here at A.S.H

Perl Molson

> > I have read somewhere that in psychiatry, the medication called
> > 'Haldol' have been used with success even though the way it worked was
[quoted text clipped - 90 lines]
>
> Mike
M.L.S. - 27 Oct 2003 14:45 GMT
<snip>

>I was not trying to talk about such type of details.
>I meant the way you can see how better you feel even though
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>with beer, right. Most of us probably know that, very well.
>You must stop and you will.

>Unless, if you figured out a way to deal with the symptom caused
>by such trigger as mentioned above, in this case you can still
>persist in "eating peanuts with beer"( until you get a stomac ache ;O) ).
>Obviously, the treatmet that you have presumably used, worked and
>it is noticeable.
>In other words YOU KNOW IT.

You are guessing and not knowing.  For one thing, triggers themselves
are largely only problematically ascertainable.  When people ask we
give them a general list of things that they may want to look at, but
there are very few people who can point to one or two items on that
list and say that those are triggers that cause outbreaks without
fail.  "Stress" as a trigger is not particularly precise and is, in
fact, entirely subjective.  Pretending that adding the ingestion or
application of miscellaneous substances to a framework that already
consists mostly of guesses will produce something that you can "KNOW"
is piling subjectivity upon subjectivity and is stupid.

If you find things that seem to work for you, more power to you, but
you should not be under the illusion that you are somehow "curing"
yourself, or that anything that works for you is liable to work for
others.  And if you're even half-intelligent you might from time to
time want to consider that what you think you "KNOW" is just a
coincidence.  I happen to think L-lysine works for me, but am well
aware that controlled studies do not more than coincidentally back me
up.  I suggest that L-lysine *may* work for others, but it's just a
suggestion and will not work for everyone.

>There are lots of triggering factors but that is another story
>for another topic, which hopefully, we will analize here at A.S.H

This is a support group, and we already routinely discuss triggers
here.  The people who come here are more interested in the
practicalities of dealing with HSV, and less interested in the
intricacies of enzyme translations, particularly when "discussions" of
the latter are conducted by someone who seems incapable of putting two
rational thoughts together in broken English.  There are medical and
scientific groups where your "investigations", Perl, *might* be more
apropos, though I doubt they will be any better tolerated.

Mike
Perl Molson - 27 Oct 2003 09:03 GMT
>  
> >> What is your criteria for what works and what doesn't, and how do you
> >> rule out other factors in your testing?

>  
> > Secondly, if you have a tingling caused by herpes and no matter what
[quoted text clipped - 68 lines]
> initial symptoms is exactly this:  simple minded.
> > Mike

Here is a simple example; can you make an association between the above and
below sets of paragraphs?

"HSV1 reactivation due to increased glucocorticoid hormones levels"

("One putative link for stress effects on immune function
and virus reactivation is glucocorticoid hormones (3, 28).
These levels are high enough to result in the down-regulation
of the immune response, including the specific immune response
to HSV-1, and to enhance the pathophysiology of an
HSV-1 infection (3, 9, 29). However, mice whose hierarchy and
social interactions were disrupted showed significant evidence
of reactivation of latent HSV-1.")
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/95/12/7231.pdf

"Glucocorticoids help the body to hold onto needed salt"

http://mountzion.ucsfmedicalcenter.org/endocrinology/adrenal/gluco.html

Perl Molson
M.L.S. - 27 Oct 2003 14:49 GMT
>Here is a simple example; can you make an association between the above and
>below sets of paragraphs?

No, there's doesn't appear to be any association, except in your
addled brain.

And the discussion of the reactivation of latent HSV in mouse colonies
might best be conducted in one of the many *medical* or *scientific*
newsgroups.  Unless you think this is a support group for mice.  ;-)

Mike
Perl Molson - 27 Oct 2003 09:07 GMT
>  
> >> What is your criteria for what works and what doesn't, and how do you
> >> rule out other factors in your testing?

>  
> > Secondly, if you have a tingling caused by herpes and no matter what
[quoted text clipped - 68 lines]
> initial symptoms is exactly this:  simple minded.
> > Mike

Here is a simple example; can you make an association between the above and
below sets of paragraphs?

"HSV1 reactivation due to increased glucocorticoid hormones levels"

("One putative link for stress effects on immune function
and virus reactivation is glucocorticoid hormones (3, 28).
These levels are high enough to result in the down-regulation
of the immune response, including the specific immune response
to HSV-1, and to enhance the pathophysiology of an
HSV-1 infection (3, 9, 29). However, mice whose hierarchy and
social interactions were disrupted showed significant evidence
of reactivation of latent HSV-1.")
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/95/12/7231.pdf

"Glucocorticoids help the body to hold onto needed salt"

http://mountzion.ucsfmedicalcenter.org/endocrinology/adrenal/gluco.html

Perl Molson
Perl Molson - 27 Oct 2003 09:27 GMT
in addition to my last 2( identical) posts.

What is my point? Let's be more realistic.
The complexity of the problems are beyond what they seems to be
or should be or...etc etc

Perl Molson

Social stress induces glucocorticoid resistance in macrophages

Stress-induced levels of plasma glucocorticoid hormones are known to
modulate leukocyte function. These experiments examined the effects of
a social stressor on the responsiveness of peripheral immune cells.
Male mice experienced six evening cycles of social disruption (SDR),
in which an aggressive male intruder was placed into their home cage
for 2 h. Although circulating corticosterone was elevated in SDR mice,
they had enlarged spleens and increased numbers of splenic leukocytes.
Splenocytes from SDR and control mice were cultured with
lipopolysaccharide and corticosterone. Cells from SDR mice exhibited
decreased sensitivity to the antiproliferative effects of
corticosterone, suggesting that the peripheral immune cells were
resistant to glucocorticoids. In addition, SDR cells produced more
interleukin (IL)-6. To determine which cell population was affected,
we used antibody-labeled magnetic beads to deplete splenocyte
suspensions of B cells or macrophages. Depletion of macrophages from
SDR cultures, but not depletion of B cells, abolished both the
corticosterone resistance and enhanced IL-6 secretion. These findings
demonstrate that a psychosocial stressor induced glucocorticoid
resistance in mouse splenic macrophages.

interleukin-6; corticosterone resistance; lipopolysaccharide; spleen;
mice

http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/280/6/R1799
Perl Molson - 26 Oct 2003 09:20 GMT
> > M.L.S. posted:
work.

> What is your criteria for what works and what doesn't, and how do you
> rule out other factors in your testing?

In addition to my previous post,  here is:

Hering's Law of Cure          
 
   
 
 
 


The father of American Homeopathy, Constantine Hering, M.D., was one
of the first to observe specific ways that the healing process
develops. He made three observations of the true healing process which
have bee called "Hering's Law of Cure".

1) Hering's first observation is that the human body seeks to
externalize disease. One of the miraculous functions of the body is to
move dis-ease from more serious internal levels to more superficial,
external levels. During the Homeopathic treatment process, a patient
treated for an allergy or asthma may, during the curative process,
develop a skin rash. Someone with a deeper mental or emotional
condition may commonly notice an improvement in their mental or
emotional condition when physical symptoms occur. Sadly, physical
symptoms as a unique and unconnected phenomenon, thus possibly
reactivating the patient's original condition. The human body is
closely interconnected mentally, emotionally, and physically, and must
be managed in this way.

2) Hering's second observation is that healing progresses from the top
of the body to the bottom. A person with a skin rash or arthritis over
their entire body may notice relief in the upper body before the lower
body. Understanding this law of healing helps the Physician to
differentiate a true cure from temporary relief, suppression, or a
placebo response.

3) Hering's third observation was that healing proceeds in the reverse
chronological order of the appearance of the symptoms. As healing
progresses, a patient may sometimes re-experience symptoms. As healing
progresses, a patient may sometimes re-experience symptoms that he or
she previously suffered (retracing). This may occur when symptoms were
conventionally suppressed or not handled properly. Educating your
patients of this possibility will prevent a disgruntled patient and
created a more positive, open attitude toward their own health.
Remember, this aggravation is only experienced for a short period of
time (usually 3 days maximum), and departs leaving a significantly
increased level of health.

In the past, many have had difficulty understanding these laws;
however, the power of minute quantities is all too well established in
this age of physics.
M.L.S. - 26 Oct 2003 14:56 GMT
>In addition to my previous post,  here is:

>Hering's Law of Cure

Hering's "Law" is abject mumbo jumbo concocted by a nineteenth century
charlatan whose subjective pronouncements can be swept into the
garbage disposal of history with the contents of the average modern
high school chemistry book.

Mike

>The father of American Homeopathy, Constantine Hering, M.D., was one
>of the first to observe specific ways that the healing process
>develops. He made three observations of the true healing process which
>have bee called "Hering's Law of Cure".

>1) Hering's first observation is that the human body seeks to
>externalize disease. One of the miraculous functions of the body is to
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>closely interconnected mentally, emotionally, and physically, and must
>be managed in this way.

>2) Hering's second observation is that healing progresses from the top
>of the body to the bottom. A person with a skin rash or arthritis over
>their entire body may notice relief in the upper body before the lower
>body. Understanding this law of healing helps the Physician to
>differentiate a true cure from temporary relief, suppression, or a
>placebo response.

>3) Hering's third observation was that healing proceeds in the reverse
>chronological order of the appearance of the symptoms. As healing
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>time (usually 3 days maximum), and departs leaving a significantly
>increased level of health.

>In the past, many have had difficulty understanding these laws;
>however, the power of minute quantities is all too well established in
>this age of physics.
M.L.S. - 26 Oct 2003 15:11 GMT
>Hering's Law of Cure          

http://www.homeoint.org/biograph/heringen.htm

"[Hering's] interest and experience with snake venom led him to
surmise that the saliva of a rabid dog, or powdered smallpox scabs, or
any other disease products, viruses, or venom's, might be prepared in
the new Hahnemannian way to give a fail-safe method of curing disease.
In this manner Hering unwittingly became the first in the Isopathic
movement (eventually, he also unwittingly paralyzed his right side
from further self-testing or "prufung" of higher and higher
attenuations of Lachesis)."

Whoops!  Physician, heal thyself!  If you can.

Mike
Angela - 26 Oct 2003 01:13 GMT
First of all . . . Valtrex doesn't work for everybody Perl. But, it sure did
work for me. Am I dependant on it? I don't think so . . . I was only on
suppression for two years and haven't really had to use it a whole heck of a
lot since stopping the suppression. Of course ... I don't get flare ups like
I used to either.

Secondly . . . Valtrex didn't mess up any of my other organs in my body and
there were special tests ran while I was on suppression.

Thirdly . . . I'm sure taking Valtrex probably does make you feel like a
loser.

Go figure!?

Angela

> Anyway, I do not see how that particular Valtrex at all are so great, too.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> a person. (maybe a f.cked-up liver?)
> Taking Valtrex and all that crap would make me feel like a loser.
 
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