Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / October 2006
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Dunes - 11 Oct 2006 02:13 GMT Hi Everyone, I am terribly sorry to be ignorant about this, but I read a bit more and found no clear cut answer. Like I posted before, two and a half years ago I tested positive for Herpes. They didn't/couldn't tell me if it were type 1 or 2. I was told there was no distinction in testing. So I went with the belief that I am positive for Genital Herpes. I never got lesions etc...that I can think of. I did get very few cold sores here and there. 3 weeks ago, I redid a bunch of tests among which was Herpes. My doc today told me I tested positive for type 1 but negative for type 2. What do I make of that? Can you test positive then negative? Can you have a false positive? Maybe I only had Type 1 to begin with. The reason I need clarification is my ex made it such a tragedy and put me through hell about it. He told me he had an outbreak only once but I know he had a couple of cold sores on his lip twice. Please provide any insight you can on this. I am not sure how to react to all this.
Many thanks Dune
Yoshi2me - 11 Oct 2006 15:05 GMT > Hi Everyone, > I am terribly sorry to be ignorant about this, but I read a bit more > and found no clear cut answer. Like I posted before, two and a half > years ago I tested positive for Herpes. They didn't/couldn't tell me > if it were type 1 or 2. I was told there was no distinction in > testing. Obviously you probably realize today that a person can have HSV-1, HSV-2, both, OR nothing at all, right?
> So I went with the belief that I am positive for Genital > Herpes. I never got lesions etc...that I can think of. I did get very > few cold sores here and there. 3 weeks ago, I redid a bunch of tests > among which was Herpes. My doc today told me I tested positive for > type 1 but negative for type 2. Was it a type specific antibody test kind of like the ones listed here: http://yoshi2me.com/genital-herpes.html
> What do I make of that? Can you test positive then negative? It's more common to get a false negative depending on the type of blood test that you had done. No, you don't normally go from being positive to being negative. Once you contract herpes, you keep herpes.
> Can you > have a false positive? A false positive is not likely...
> Maybe I only had Type 1 to begin with. I would suspect that could very well be the case. And since you didn't really ever have any outbreaks that you could see or feel.. it's almost safe to assume that it's probably oral herpes type-1.
> The > reason I need clarification is my ex made it such a tragedy and put me > through hell about it. He told me he had an outbreak only once but I > know he had a couple of cold sores on his lip twice. > Please provide any insight you can on this. I am not sure how to react > to all this. Have you checked out the Herpes Help site yet? http://yoshi2me.com/index.html
Hope this helps,
Angela :-)
Robert McDonald - 11 Oct 2006 17:45 GMT Why is the following true?
And since you didn't
> really ever have any outbreaks that you could see or feel.. it's almost > safe to assume that it's probably oral herpes type-1.
>> Hi Everyone, >> I am terribly sorry to be ignorant about this, but I read a bit more [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Angela :-) grant - 11 Oct 2006 21:45 GMT > Why is the following true? > > And since you didn't >> really ever have any outbreaks that you could see or feel.. it's almost >> safe to assume that it's probably oral herpes type-1. Probably because it's the most common.
ar
Yoshi2me - 11 Oct 2006 21:55 GMT Because statistically, a person that is positive for HSV-1 probably has oral herpes.
Angela
> Why is the following true? > > And since you didn't >> really ever have any outbreaks that you could see or feel.. it's almost >> safe to assume that it's probably oral herpes type-1. Dunes - 11 Oct 2006 23:30 GMT Angela,
>From what I remember the nurse telling me this morning, it sounded like IgG tests. I will confirm when I get my records in the mail.
> > Hi Everyone, > > I am terribly sorry to be ignorant about this, but I read a bit more [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Angela :-) nightowl - 12 Oct 2006 05:35 GMT Maybe a falst positive is rare, Angela...but it happens. Happened to me...remember? If it weren't for Betsy, I would have never known to question it. I am so thankful to her.
Michelle
> > Hi Everyone, > > I am terribly sorry to be ignorant about this, but I read a bit more [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Angela :-) grant - 12 Oct 2006 10:24 GMT Hi Michelle,
I'm so glad Betsy helped you out. She's pretty cool. :)
I think we have our terminology mixed up. What happened to you was confusion on type based on a test that isn't that great--you still have herpes. Well, that's how I think of it. It wasn't a false positive at all, but confusion of type. It happens with that test. However, if you were to have gotten a Western Blot test, there would be no confusion as to whether you had type 1 or 2.
A false positive is when someone tests absolutely positive for herpes but they don't have it at all. Not really about the type, but the virus itself. I hope that clarifies how I've been thinking about it.
ar
> Maybe a falst positive is rare, Angela...but it happens. Happened to > me...remember? If it weren't for Betsy, I would have never known to [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] >> >> Angela :-) Yoshi2me - 12 Oct 2006 15:02 GMT Great explanation Ar.
BTW, you're pretty cool too.
Angela :)
> Hi Michelle, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > ar grant - 12 Oct 2006 20:29 GMT > Great explanation Ar. > > BTW, you're pretty cool too. > > Angela :) Well, thank you! You too. :)
ar
Dunes - 14 Oct 2006 00:11 GMT Ok all you cool people :) Here's what my original test results say:
HSV, IgM I/II combination 1.96 H ratio HSV I/II IgG 12.3 H index negative <0.9 Equivocal 0.9-1.0 positive >or=1.1
Unfortunately, I was incredibly ignorant and didn't follow up with my doc to understand what it all means. I forgot to bring the test that I just took 3 weeks ago. but I do remember my doc telling me, I show positive for I and negative for II. I will get it Monday and post what it says word for word :)
Any comments?? Thanks as always for your help and patience.
One more questions, has anyone ever dated/met someone from a herpes related dating site?? :) Thanks-
> Great explanation Ar. > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > > ar- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - grant - 14 Oct 2006 02:07 GMT Hi Michelle,
I have no idea how to read those test results...that's why I got the Western Blot. :)
I can't remember if I have met anyone from one of the herpes dating sites. I don't think I have because as soon as i got divorced, I moved to Vermont and there were only, like, three people in the entire state listed on those sites.
Is there a specific reasong for the question?
ar
> Ok all you cool people :) Here's what my original test results say: > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >> >> > ar- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - nightowl - 14 Oct 2006 15:36 GMT Hey Grant,
I think you were actually replying to Dunes post not mine...lol.
I don't need anyone, especially my HUSBAND, thinking I'm checking out Herpes dating sites! ;)
Easy to get confused with all the back and forth...hell, half the time I can't navigate this site! lol
Take care, Michelle
> Hi Michelle, > [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > >> > >> > ar- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - grant - 14 Oct 2006 21:59 GMT You're right, Michelle! Sorry! :)
ar
> Hey Grant, > [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] >> >> >> >> > ar- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Dunes - 15 Oct 2006 00:58 GMT grant,
I guess the dating question is more of a psychological positive boost. I am not sure how to explain it. I guess knowing there are people out there (with Herpes) who meet each other, date and marry and possibly have kids might help me deal with it better. Who knows? Am just feeling very down since I broke up with my boyfriend. We went through a lot and it broke me down. I am typically a very positive energetic person. Oh well....
Dunes
> Hi Michelle, > [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > >> > ar- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - grant - 15 Oct 2006 01:02 GMT Hey Dunes,
It's okay. It can take awhile to learn to deal with having herpes.
I had herpes when I met my husband-to-be. He didn't care that I had it. After the divorce, I started dating. The three men I met who I felt I wanted to tell all turned out to already have herpes. And I didn't meet them on a herpes dating site. The first had genital type 2 and the others had oral type 1. (Assuming that's all they had)
ar
> grant, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Dunes Yoshi2me - 14 Oct 2006 15:26 GMT > Ok all you cool people :) Here's what my original test results say: > > HSV, IgM I/II combination 1.96 H ratio I'm not sure what that one means. I can tell you that IGM doesn't really mean anything. Why not post these test results in the herpes forum so that Betsy (aka: Grace) can tell you what they mean. She's really good at deciphering test results since she is in the healthcare field.
> HSV I/II IgG 12.3 H index Is the 12.3 for HSV-1 or HSV-2 ?
> negative <0.9 I think what that means is if you have 0.9 and below that number that it would essentially be negative. At least that is what I think. I don't know for sure.
> Equivocal 0.9-1.0 I think equivocal means that this might be cause for you to retest because the test wasn't sure?
> positive >or=1.1 I think this means that anything above a 1.1 means you are positive.
Again, run this by Betsy and see what she says... here's the link: http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php
> Unfortunately, I was incredibly ignorant and didn't follow up with my > doc to understand what it all means. I forgot to bring the test that I > just took 3 weeks ago. but I do remember my doc telling me, I show > positive for I and negative for II. I will get it Monday and post what > it says word for word :) Post it word for word on that link I gave you in the herpes forum. Betsy is very good and confirming test results.
> Any comments?? > Thanks as always for your help and patience. You're welcome. :)
> One more questions, has anyone ever dated/met someone from a herpes > related dating site?? :) Thanks- I didn't meet my husband from the herpes community. I'm kinda glad I had not limited myself because who knows if I would have met him or not, ya know? I do know people that have had great success with online dating though...
http://yoshi2me.com/herpes-dating.html -- That's my herpes dating page. It's not limited to only herpes dating sites but it does have a few on there.
Good luck,
Angela :-)
http://yoshi2me.com -- Herpes Help
Eric - 14 Oct 2006 16:21 GMT > > Ok all you cool people :) Here's what my original test results say: > > > > HSV, IgM I/II combination 1.96 H ratio IgM's aren't usually useful in herpes infections. These antibodies are the first ones made by your body and are much less specific than IgG's. They need to run IgG's for you.
> > HSV I/II IgG 12.3 H index > > Is the 12.3 for HSV-1 or HSV-2 ? This was not a type-specific test. This tells you nothing more than at some point in your life, at home place on your body, you were exposed to either HSV-1 or HSV-2. If you've ever had a coldsore, that'll account for it, but most people tend to not recognize their symptoms.
You need a type-specific IgG test to accurately tell you what you have. Statistically, odds are it is HSV-1 orally, but don't rely on a statistic.
Tim Fitzmaurice - 16 Oct 2006 07:54 GMT >> Ok all you cool people :) Here's what my original test results say: >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Is the 12.3 for HSV-1 or HSV-2 ? It looks like a pan-herpes test, designed to detect reactivity to HSV 1 and HSV2, so that would be a combined score in a pan-H test.
Tim -- When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart ICQ: 5178568
nightowl - 13 Oct 2006 16:29 GMT Grant,
I guess we are confused...lol. I never said I didn't have herpes...I've known I have had type I forever almost...but what my test in March said was that I was positive for type II specifically (and it showed to be a Herpes II IgG type specific test -- which I know is not the "cadillac" Western Blot....but it was what was ordered for me). The result was 3.0 which is well above the 1.1 positive range. It's just that no one at the dr's office took into consideration my long history of type I and ever considered that a recent, large outbreak could do anything to affect my type II number. Betsy did...and I owe her!
Regardless of the type of test (and I asked about a Western Blot and the dr's office said that wasn't available for H....something else they didn't know) the numbers were elevated for type II, making all concerned think I had type II. That is why I plan to will make a special appt. to go over all my test results with my doctor so that this doesn't happen to someone else.
If a false positive has to cover both types...then I stand corrected. I just know that I was found to be positive for type II initially, and now that's not the case. Hope that doesn't confuse anyone.
Have a great weekend :) Michelle
But thanks
> Hi Michelle, > [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > >> > >> Angela :-) grant - 13 Oct 2006 21:37 GMT Hi Michelle,
I think we've cleared up the confusion. :)
I'm so happy that you are going to go over this with the doctor to help keep others from going through what you did. That's absolutely wonderful. Thanks. :)
ar
> Grant, > [quoted text clipped - 113 lines] >> >> >> >> Angela :-) Yoshi2me - 12 Oct 2006 15:00 GMT > Maybe a falst positive is rare, Angela...but it happens. Yes, it can happen but it's rare and odd. It's not something that would be as common as a false negative. I don't recall saying that a false positive would never happen. I simply said that it was rare.
> Happened to > me...remember? Yes, I remember.
> If it weren't for Betsy, I would have never known to > question it. I am so thankful to her. Betsy is great! She's still posting over on PUP and the STD Message board. You should stop in and let her know how much you appreciate her help.
Angela :)
http://yoshi2me.com/pup/index.html - PUP http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php - STD Message Board
nightowl - 13 Oct 2006 16:33 GMT Anglea,
I never said that you said a false positive never happens...just that it was rare..that's true. Didn't mean to confuse anyone. Heck, I was confused enough with all my testing and retesting..it can be exhausting. LOL
As far as going back to PUP...that's a bridge I'm not gonna cross back over... :)
Michelle
> > Maybe a falst positive is rare, Angela...but it happens. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > http://yoshi2me.com/pup/index.html - PUP > http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php - STD Message Board nightowl - 11 Oct 2006 18:50 GMT Dear Dunes,
Back in March of this year, I tested positive through a blood test for HSV-2. At the time, I was a member on another herpes website and a very nice nurse, ex-moderator, there advised me to get retested since my number was low and I had a long-standing history of HSV-1 orally. Right before taking the HSV-2 test in March, I had had a large outbreak (two lesions on my lip, instead of the usual one). So I retested in late May, and the test came back equivocal (which means you may or may not have the virus). Then in early July I tested a third time and the results for type-2 came back as negative.
Had that very kind woman, not asked to see my numbers and then suggest further testing to me...I'd have gone to this day thinking I have type-2 and type 1, instead of just having type-1. Not that either is a better or worse one to have socially....I don't discriminate between the two...they're both Herpes. But as far as other situations in my life...it is much better that I know the truth as to what I have.
A couple of things I noticed in your e-mail (and I'm no expert...but I thought I'd mention it)...Genital Herpes can be either type-1 or type 2...as can oral be either type. So just saying you have genital herpes isn't specifically telling you which type you have.
They definitely can tell you which type you have based on a blood test. Ask for a Herpes Select Type 1 & II test. The only thing that can't be told from the blood test (at this date) is when you got it.
Hope this helps. Like I said, I'm not the expert here...but I am one that was misdiagnosed. I just received the paperwork in on all of my tests and I plan to set an appt. with my gynecologist's office to discuss this with them. Health care professionals need to know how having type-1 can affect the outcome of type-2 testing...and they don't.
And not to get on a soapbox here...but I wanted to share something positive that has come out of all my HSV drama...lol. When I learned all about Herpes back in March (and trust me...I knew little to that point), I made it my mission to talk to anyone and everyone about HSV. I have a 17 y/o daugher and a son that is almost 14. I've have spoken to both of them about herpes, how you get it, that condoms don't protect against it, how you can have it and not know it, etc. I won't let my kids grow up ignorant about H like I was. I treat it as matter of fact...telling them that just because someone has H (either type) it's no reflection on them as a person, they're behavior, etc. I don't want stigma attached to this disease anymore! Enough!
Best of luck to you. And Yoshi...if you talk to Betsy....please tell her I'm eternally grateful!
Michelle
> Hi Everyone, > I am terribly sorry to be ignorant about this, but I read a bit more [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Many thanks > Dune grant - 11 Oct 2006 21:43 GMT Hi Dune,
It can be confusing, that's for sure.
Fist, the doctor was wrong to tell you that type 1 and 2 could not be distinguished through a blood test or even a culture. There were older blood tests that could distinguish between the two, but they sometimes got them mixed up. Though, in the last few years, that really hasn't been a problem, as far as I know.
What made you believe you had genital herpes? Did you ever have symptoms at all? Why did you have a test run in the first place?
Cold sores are herpes, so of course you would test positive for herpes. The majority of cold sores are caused by herpes type 1. It is possible to have oral herpes type 2, but it seems to be rather rare.
It is also possible to have herpes type 1 genitally. It's become quite common, actually. Either way, whether it is genital or oral, it is still type 1.
There are no false positives.
If your ex had cold sores, then what was he complaining about? Did he have cold sores before you got together? Or, are you saying he had genital outbreaks of herpes? I don't have a time-line so I'm not sure what you are asking clarification for.
It is possible to pass oral herpes to someone's genitals through oral sex. It is also possible to pass genital type 1 to someone's mouth through oral sex.
ar
> Hi Everyone, > I am terribly sorry to be ignorant about this, but I read a bit more [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Many thanks > Dune Eric - 11 Oct 2006 22:13 GMT > Hi Everyone, > I am terribly sorry to be ignorant about this, but I read a bit more > and found no clear cut answer. Like I posted before, two and a half > years ago I tested positive for Herpes. They didn't/couldn't tell me > if it were type 1 or 2. I was told there was no distinction in > testing. Wide spread type-specific testing is relatively new.
> So I went with the belief that I am positive for Genital > Herpes. I never got lesions etc...that I can think of. I did get very [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > What do I make of that? Can you test positive then negative? Can you > have a false positive? Maybe I only had Type 1 to begin with. You don't test positive and then negative unless they misinterpreted your test. In your case, it sounds like they never actually typed the virus until recently.
> The reason I need clarification is my ex made it such a tragedy and put me > through hell about it. He told me he had an outbreak only once but I > know he had a couple of cold sores on his lip twice. > Please provide any insight you can on this. I am not sure how to react > to all this. If he put you through hell over oral herpes, I'm glad he's your ex! :-) You have oral HSV-1 which is the cause of the coldsores you said you have had.
Me, you, and the other 60-90% of people with HSV-1 orally are majority and the more "normal" ones.
Dunes - 11 Oct 2006 23:23 GMT 1. I never had lesions or any of thoses symptoms prior to testing. July 2004 is when I went and did a blood test because my ex called me to tell me he woke up with scratchy throat, burning when he peed and some sort of discharge on the tip of his penis. His doc immediately assumed it was herpes and had him tested. His test came back negative but he said you could have a false negative. To the best of my knowledge, since then he never had another genital outbreak. But I know he had a couple of cold sores on his upper lip because you can obviously see it. 2. I talked to my doc of July 2004 and she is mailing to me the original lab results that I will compare and discuss with my new doc. 3. I know that your answers and more reading will help me get a better grasp on what it is I have etc... 4. I guess it was naive of me to think or believe that oral herpes 1 is a much better outcome than what I originally thought. 5.I do want to say thank you for all your warm and kind responses. Dunes
> > Hi Everyone, > > I am terribly sorry to be ignorant about this, but I read a bit more [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Me, you, and the other 60-90% of people with HSV-1 orally are majority > and the more "normal" ones. grant - 12 Oct 2006 00:23 GMT Hi Dune,
It's possible your ex tested negative because he was newly infected. It can take up to 16 weeks after infection for the body to build up enough antibodies to test positive.
I'm not sure if herpes comes along with discharge for men. It's possible he could have had something else. Did the doctor run an std panel on him at all?
So based on what I think I understand from your posts, you could have given him herpes through oral sex because you have cold sores. Or, he could not have genital herpes at all and have had something else but still have gotten cold sores from you. Or, it could be something else completely different. It's sometimes hard to tell with herpes. That's why we tend to suggest people leave well enough alone and not worry about who gave it to whom, etc.
ar
> 1. I never had lesions or any of thoses symptoms prior to testing. > July 2004 is when I went and did a blood test because my ex called me [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >> Me, you, and the other 60-90% of people with HSV-1 orally are majority >> and the more "normal" ones. Dunes - 12 Oct 2006 01:43 GMT The interesting thing is my cold sores were very small and hardly bothersome. If i remember correctly they didn't total up to more than 3 or 4 the past couple of years. He had 2 I can recall and they were not pretty. He had them each time on his lip and had to get a prescription drug to clear it up. Eric, trust me at this point I am not too concerned with who gave it to whom. But like I mentioned before he took the news terribly hard and took it out on me. I can safely say those first months up to the first year were the most traumatic times of my life because of his treatment to me. I know I will be scarred (emotionally) for life. I did forgive him but I can't forget just yet.
> Hi Dune, > [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > >> Me, you, and the other 60-90% of people with HSV-1 orally are majority > >> and the more "normal" ones.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Eric - 12 Oct 2006 01:22 GMT > 1. I never had lesions or any of thoses symptoms prior to testing. > July 2004 is when I went and did a blood test because my ex called me [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > know he had a couple of cold sores on his upper lip because you can > obviously see it. Dunes, when you get your blood tests that will confirm everything. But it sounds like you both have had coldsores, right? If you have ever had a coldsore, and if he has ever had a coldsore, then you have oral herpes.
> 2. I talked to my doc of July 2004 and she is mailing to me the > original lab results that I will compare and discuss with my new doc. Great!
> 3. I know that your answers and more reading will help me get a better > grasp on what it is I have etc... It will. Try to stay calm and your new doc will determine what exactly you have.
> 4. I guess it was naive of me to think or believe that oral herpes 1 is > a much better outcome than what I originally thought. Oral herpes 1 can be a nasty thing to have, just as bad as genital 2. But if you do have it, welcome to the majority!
> 5.I do want to say thank you for all your warm and kind responses. Your welcome.
Eric - 12 Oct 2006 01:27 GMT > 1. I never had lesions or any of thoses symptoms prior to testing. > July 2004 is when I went and did a blood test because my ex called me [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > know he had a couple of cold sores on his upper lip because you can > obviously see it. Dunes, when you get your blood tests that will confirm everything. But it sounds like you both have had coldsores, right? If you have ever had a coldsore, and if he has ever had a coldsore, then you have oral herpes.
> 2. I talked to my doc of July 2004 and she is mailing to me the > original lab results that I will compare and discuss with my new doc. Great!
> 3. I know that your answers and more reading will help me get a better > grasp on what it is I have etc... It will. Try to stay calm and your new doc will determine what exactly you have.
> 4. I guess it was naive of me to think or believe that oral herpes 1 is > a much better outcome than what I originally thought. Oral herpes 1 can be a nasty thing to have, just as bad as genital 2. But if you do have it, welcome to the majority!
> 5.I do want to say thank you for all your warm and kind responses. Your welcome.
Yoshi2me - 12 Oct 2006 15:03 GMT > Me, you, and the other 60-90% of people with HSV-1 orally are majority > and the more "normal" ones. You're not as "normal" as you think you are Eric.
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