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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / October 2006Newly diagnosed with lots of questions
Hi all, Here's my scenario. I was recently diagnosed with HSV-2, negative for HSV-1 and herpes-zoster. At first, the GP thought I had shingles because the only place I've ever had an outbreak is on my hip. He did a culture using ELVIS. As I understand it, there is no such thing as a false positive, although there can be false negatives. So it was time to face reality and he referred me to an ob-gyn, who also thought it was very strange that my only symptom was on my hip and never on my genitalia. After some research, I realized that I'm better off with this than shingles as herpes-zoster can have some devastating systemic effects that are not as common for HSV-2. They prescribed Valtrex (500mg/day). I've been taking that for over a month now. Ever since I've been taking it, I've noticed other symptoms that may or may not be HSV, but it seems a little too coincidental. So here's my first question: can Valtrex trigger other conditions, such as, say, lupus or other discoid-type disorders? (Fortunately, I've been tested negative for HIV/AIDS recently and I've been tested regularly in the past also.) Years ago, a doctor told me that I have pityriasis rosea, although I wasn't actually tested for it. I forgot all about it until shortly after I started the Valtrex and then I had an outbreak just like the original one I'd had years ago. If I have some other kind of autoimmune disorder, what kind of doctor would make that diagnosis? Or are there side-effects from the Valtrex that can seem like symptoms of something else? Second, the ob-gyn tells me there is no way that my boyfriend doesn't have it too. He wants him to take Valtrex without being tested first. We have been together for four years, and he's never had any of the symptoms listed. (We talked about this extensively, so we're both aware of the various manifestations.) Could he possibly be HSV free? If so, would taking Valtrex hurt him? Even if he has HSV, is it necessary if I'm taking it and we don't have sex when symptoms are present? Third, I don't have HSV-1 so can I give him oral sex? Can he give me oral sex if no symptoms are present? I know there is always viral shedding, but since he's asymptomatic, does that mean he sheds at a lower rate than if he were symptomatic? Fourth, the odds are I contracted this because I didn't practice safe sex. Even though I knew the risks, I didn't because I have a latex intolerance, which I'm finding out is common in my family and probably for a lot of women. The lambskin condoms are pretty much useless when it comes to stopping viral transmission. My boyfriend found polyurethane condoms. They don't affect me as badly, but they do still irritate me. In fact, I went back to my ob-gyn because I thought I was had a genital lesion and he told me it was a tear in the skin. What can I do to reduce the irritation from condoms? That's my last question--now here's some advice. Guys, always have non-latex condoms available, just in case. I wasn't even aware that there were any other types other than latex or lambskin. I can tell you that everytime I've used them, I had a severe, painful reaction. So I took my chances, since it was hard enough to find guys willing to use ANY KIND of condom. Yes, I know I'm responsible too and if I had respected myself more, I might not be in this situation. But even in today's "enlightened era," women are very embarrassed to buy condoms. When men buy them, nobody thinks less of them. Not so for women. Hi Betty Boop!! :) FYI, I like your nick name. That's cute. I'll do my best to answer your post as I get to each point. I hope it helps... Before I dive in, I just want to let you know that this forum has been somewhat slow-going lately. So, if you need more input from different people feel free to check things out over here, k? http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php > Here's my scenario. I was recently diagnosed with HSV-2, negative for > HSV-1 [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I'm better off with this than shingles as herpes-zoster can have some > devastating systemic effects that are not as common for HSV-2. Here's the thing though... just because you don't get outbreaks that you can see OR feel around the genitals doesn't mean that you don't get activity from the virus there... There are many people that have genital herpes and they can't tell when the virus is active on the surface of the skin. That's why they say that it's possible to pass herpes even if there are no outbreaks. Also, people with genital herpes can get outbreaks OR viral activity anywhere below the belt line. Usually it's anywhere around the boxwers shorts area. Yes, herpes zoster is different from herpes simplex. > They prescribed Valtrex (500mg/day). I've been taking that for over a > month [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > other > discoid-type disorders? No, it can not. > (Fortunately, I've been tested negative for HIV/AIDS > recently and I've been tested regularly in the past also.) Years ago, a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > seem > like symptoms of something else? No, the only thing I can think of is perhaps you need a full work up. When was the last time you had a physical? After all, not everything going on with your body is due to herpes. I for one know how true that can be as I was recently diagnosed with Hashimoto's Disease. That's also known as Hypothyroidism. So, check with your doctor because you just never know what is going on with your body. > Second, the ob-gyn tells me there is no way that my boyfriend doesn't have > it > too. He wants him to take Valtrex without being tested first. Ok, well THAT doesn't make any sense at all. Just because you have it doesn't mean your boyfriend has it too. I can't understand why this doc wouldn't want your boyfriend to have type specific herpes testing done so you guys can find out what his status is too? What's up with that? > We have been > together for four years, and he's never had any of the symptoms listed. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > don't > have sex when symptoms are present? He either has herpes or he doesn't have herpes. The only way for him to find out what his status is would be to be properly tested for it. http://yoshi2me.com/genital-herpes.html - That's my herpes testing page full of information. There is absolutely no reason for him to take Valtrex if he doesn't have herpes. If the both of you have the same type of HSV and in the same location, and you don't have frequent outbreaks, then I don't see what the purpose of staying on the meds would be. (That's just how I see it) > Third, I don't have HSV-1 so can I give him oral sex? Can he give me oral > sex > if no symptoms are present? Firstly you two need to find out what your status is. Right now you only know what your status is. Does he have herpes and if so, where is it located and which type does he have? Here's another link that might help: http://yoshi2me.com/hsv1-hsv2.html > I know there is always viral shedding, but since > he's asymptomatic, does that mean he sheds at a lower rate than if he were > symptomatic? You don't even know if he has herpes, so we can't really go there right now, can we? For people that do have herpes, those tend to shed before, during, or after an outbreak. Those that don't get outbreaks that can be seen or felt don't tend to shed as often as those that do. For the record, we are not constantly shedding the virus. It might help if you read the free herpes handbook over on westoverheights.com - you can also get to that from here: http://yoshi2me.com/herpes-hpv-books.html > Fourth, the odds are I contracted this because I didn't practice safe sex. Well, people that do practice safe sex can still contract herpes. > Even though I knew the risks, I didn't because I have a latex intolerance, > which I'm finding out is common in my family and probably for a lot of [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > in > the skin. What can I do to reduce the irritation from condoms? I don't know what to tell you on that. I think if you would find out what your partner's status is you could probably make a lot more meaningful decisions together. Just because you have herpes doesn't mean you will always and forever have to always use a condom. Ya know? > That's my last question--now here's some advice. Guys, always have > non-latex [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > embarrassed to buy condoms. When men buy them, nobody thinks less of them. > Not so for women. Ahh.. I don't know about that!! lol I think it's fun to try out different condoms. Have you seen the ones that vibrate? Those are pretty fun. Angela ;) http://yoshi2me.com -- That's my herpes help site Dear Yoshi, Thanks for the info. I asked my boyfriend to get tested and he's giving me a hard time. He hates blood tests. So do I, but you gotta do what you gotta do. He would rather just take the Valtrex without knowing one way or the other. I have a feeling he's reinfecting me, and that he is probably shedding a high viral load. Is that possible if he isn't having symptoms? Are there other symptoms, besides the skin blisters, that he might not be recognizing? He complained about pain in the groin area, but said that was a common "guy" thing. He also has to get up at least once in the middle of the night to urinate? Is that a common "guy" thing too or is it because he's 53 years old and can't wait all night anymore? Most importantly, would it hurt him to take the Valtrex without getting tested, as my doctor suggested? That would be the easiest thing to do. >Hi Betty Boop!! :) FYI, I like your nick name. That's cute. I'll do my best >to answer your post as I get to each point. I hope it helps... Before I dive [quoted text clipped - 110 lines] > >http://yoshi2me.com -- That's my herpes help site It is ridiculous to take a medication for a disease you don't have. Tell your boyfriend to grow up and get the blood test. No, he can't really reinfect you. Once you have it, you have it. However, you can get genital AND oral herpes because those are two different nerve bundles. Until you know what he has, if he has anything, then any further discussion about possibilities is really moot. Especially if we fast forward a year and you discover that YOU have infected HIM because he didn't have herpes at all...well, then you'll be upset because if you had known he was herpes free, you could have taken better precautions, etc. So, save yourself all the heartache and make him get the blood test. Also, again, if you both have herpes, then what is the need for valtrex? ar > Dear Yoshi, > [quoted text clipped - 153 lines] >> >>http://yoshi2me.com -- That's my herpes help site Ar, It's funny because when I read the newsgroup, I respond to things as I get to them. So, it totally tickles me pink when I see that I have stated something similar to your advice. Hope you're having a great day today, Angela :) http://yoshi2me.com > It is ridiculous to take a medication for a disease you don't have. > > Tell your boyfriend to grow up and get the blood test. > Hope you're having a great day today, > > Angela :) You too, Angela. :) I had the day off, so it was pretty great. :) ar > Thanks for the info. You're welcome! ;) > I asked my boyfriend to get tested and he's giving me a > hard time. He hates blood tests. So do I, but you gotta do what you gotta > do. Yes, sometimes you have to suck it up and do what ya gotta do to get things done right. > He would rather just take the Valtrex without knowing one way or the > other. Well, that's kind of silly on his part. The Valtrex does nothing for him if he doesn't have herpes. > I > have a feeling he's reinfecting me, and that he is probably shedding a > high > viral load. Is that possible if he isn't having symptoms? Ok, let's say that he does have herpes. That would mean that the both of you have herpes. You aren't passing it back and forth once you contract it. That's not at all how the herpes virus works. But, since he doesn't want to be tested officially, you will never know what he has. That seems selfish to me on his part. Doesn't it seem that way to you? > Are there other > symptoms, besides the skin blisters, that he might not be recognizing? There are all sorts of symptoms that could either be legitimate things like jock itch (for example) or maybe it's not jock itch and it's really a herpes outbreak. Small rashes sometimes get mistaken for rubbing or allergic reactions to something when in reality it's a herpes outbreak. But, again.. not all itches and symptoms are herpes either which is why you would think he would want to know what his status is.. unless of course he already knows his status and just doesn't want to go there with you. But, that would be me just speculating and it's really not good to do that which is why he should just grow up and go get tested. ;) > He > complained about pain in the groin area, but said that was a common "guy" > thing. Sure, it could be a common guy thing but is it really OR is it really a herpes situation that he would prefer to pretend doesn't exsist? > He also has to get up at least once in the middle of the night to > urinate? Is that a common "guy" thing too or is it because he's 53 years > old > and can't wait all night anymore? No, I think it just depends on if he had too much to drink before he went to bed. I'm 36 years old and if I drink something before I go to bed then chances are I'll be up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom. Unless of course I am pregnant in which case I live in the bathroom 24/7. > Most importantly, would it hurt him to take > the Valtrex without getting tested, as my doctor suggested? That would be > the > easiest thing to do. If that's what your doctor suggested then your doctor is an idiot. There is no point in somebody taking Valtrex if they don't have herpes. You would think the doctors would try and be a bit more proactive about folks getting tested so they will know their status. You would think..? :: rolls eyes :: I don't blame you for being frustrated. If it were me... I would be down right pissed off. Ok.. I'm off to jump in the shower while the kiddos are napping. I'll catch ya'll later. Angela :) http://yoshi2me.com Thanks for your reply. As for why my boyfriend doesn't want to be tested,I don't think he's hiding anything. I think he's really just that afraid of needles and also he would rather not know that he definitely doesn't have it. If he tested negative, he would probably only be able to think about how I got it in the first place, which he would assume was from cheating on him. I tried to explain that we can't make a plan of action without knowing his status. He doesn't get it and seems to think we should just go on the way we're going, which is infrequent sex with condoms only, which is not as satisfying, but still good enough to meet his needs. That doesn't quite cut it for me and I would almost rather go without. If he doesn't get tested, I won't feel bad if he shows up with symptoms later, because I discussed this all with him and he knows what the risks are. We're not talking AIDS here. It won't kill him, so if he chooses to take the risk, then I won't be held responsible should he get it at a later date. Besides, how's he gonna know when he got it if he refuses to get tested? Besides, from what I've read, the blood test can't tell you how long you've had it, only that you have it. Don't get me wrong. He's been very patient and understanding but I really think he would rather remain as ignorant as possible and let me handle everything. He might be worried that if I find out he doesn't have it, I will end our sexual relationship to avoid the possiblity of infecting him OR he might not want to know that he DOES have it, because that would mean he'd be stuck with me. So, anyway, you've answered my questions about whether he should take Valtrex when he's asymptomatic. I'll try to educate him on the symptoms, but he's really a of head-in-the-sand kind of guy. And thanks for explaining how it's passed, or rather isn't passed back & forth. I thought it would be like so many other STDs that do pass back & forth, like chlamydia and so forth. Yes, but don't you want to know what his std status is? What if he has something else like HIV? Angela http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php - STD Message Board > Thanks for your reply. As for why my boyfriend doesn't want to be tested,I > don't think he's hiding anything. I think he's really just that afraid of [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > forth. I thought it would be like so many other STDs that do pass back & > forth, like chlamydia and so forth. Hi bettyboop, Welcome to the group! I haven't read Yoshi's responses yet, but I'm sure she gave you lots of great advice. I'll just pipe in, too, and hopefully it won't be too repetitive. > They prescribed Valtrex (500mg/day). I've been taking that for over a > month [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > other > discoid-type disorders? As far as I know, Valtrex won't cause other problems to emerge. However, what I have learned with myself is that I react negatively to almost all medications! Valtrex is NOT a necessity with herpes. If you feel the medication might be causing you other problems, don't take it. > Years ago, a > doctor told me that I have pityriasis rosea, although I wasn't actually > tested for it. I forgot all about it until shortly after I started the > Valtrex and then I had an outbreak just like the original one I'd had > years > ago. Herpes takes advantage of a lowered immune system. Many of us will have a herpes outbreak along with some other illness because herpes kind of acts like a barometer for how our immune system is working. So, in otherwords, it isn't unusual to have another illness show itself while dealing with a herpes outbreak. But the herpes isn't causing the other illness, it is just reflecting the state of our immune system. > If I have some other kind of autoimmune disorder, what kind of doctor > would > make that diagnosis? Or are there side-effects from the Valtrex that can > seem > like symptoms of something else? I would start with a good GP and go from there. Not too many people report side-effects from Valtrex. I think headaches is the most frequent. But there was one person who used to post here who believes Valtrex led to her having a stroke. Again, very far-fetched, but we are all different. > Second, the ob-gyn tells me there is no way that my boyfriend doesn't have > it > too. Too bad your doctor is not that educated. :) It's very possible that your boyfriend doesn't have it. The best thing is for him to have a blood test to see if he does. >He wants him to take Valtrex without being tested first. Well, that's kind of silly. If he isn't having outbreaks, then there is no need to take Valtrex. Especially if you now have it. So, get your boyfriend tested and see what's up. But the main use for Valtrex (in my opinion) is to cut down on outbreaks. If someone doesn't have outbreaks... >We have been > together for four years, and he's never had any of the symptoms listed. > (We > talked about this extensively, so we're both aware of the various > manifestations.) Could he possibly be HSV free? Yes. >If so, would taking Valtrex > hurt him? No one should take a medication if they don't need it. >Even if he has HSV, is it necessary if I'm taking it and we don't > have sex when symptoms are present? If you both have the same type of herpes, then there is no reason for either of you take it unless you wish to take it to cut down on severity of outbreaks. > Third, I don't have HSV-1 so can I give him oral sex? If you don't have ORAL herpes (type 1 or 2), then oral sex is alright. However, if he has genital herpes type 1, then he might give you oral herpes through oral sex. So, it is best he be tested. >Can he give me oral sex > if no symptoms are present? Yes. It is difficult for type 2 to be passed to the mouth through oral sex. However, type 1 is easy. > know there is always viral shedding, but since > he's asymptomatic, does that mean he sheds at a lower rate than if he were > symptomatic? You don't know if he even has herpes. So, find that our first. The longer someone has had herpes, the less they shed. But beyond that, I think it is nearly impossible to figure out who is shedding more. > Fourth, the odds are I contracted this because I didn't practice safe sex. > Even though I knew the risks, I didn't because I have a latex intolerance, I have the same problem. I've used the polyurethane condoms but they are weaker and tend to break more. It's quite the quandry. To help with tearing, use lots of lubrication. > That's my last question--now here's some advice. Guys, always have > non-latex [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > embarrassed to buy condoms. When men buy them, nobody thinks less of them. > Not so for women. So true. :) Take care, ar Hi Betty, Pretty much all I can add is that I have never had any problems taking Valtrex. No side effects or any strange symptoms. After about 8 months of taking it off and on I finally just stopped all together. My OB's have gotten less frequent over time, and most of the time less painful while taking nothing at all. I met my husband a while after I found out I had it and he is the one that chose not to use condoms. I informed him of all the risks, and while he still does not like to talk about it a lot, he knows and he runs a risk of getting it. That is if he does not already have it and just does not have OB's. Anyway, welcome to the group! Wanda > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > embarrassed to buy condoms. When men buy them, nobody thinks less of them. > Not so for women. bettyboop, I'm sorry to hear about your diagnosis. First things first, there absolutely can be false positives, I don't care what anybody else on here might opine. HSV-1 is very close to HSV-2, so having one virus raises your antibody level of not only the virus you have, but the other one too. No, Valtrex will not cause lupus. Lupus is an autoimmune disorder in which the body attacks itself. Valtrex simply interferes with viral replication. Pityrasis erythrema is a different animal than lupus erythramatous. Next, I'm glad to hear you don't have HSV-1. I have HSV-1 and it's very hard to get any sympathy, especially in support groups. There's a divide in people's mind about the two viruses, one viewed as "good", the other as "bad". Maybe try using unlubricated condoms with a milder lubricant such as K-Y. Your advice on condoms is well taken, but it doesn't really apply to me since I'm still a virgin. > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > embarrassed to buy condoms. When men buy them, nobody thinks less of them. > Not so for women. Angela, I just want to remind you about that information you said you were putting together for me on telling people about hsv-1. Hope you didn't forget! LOL I saw the lab results and it was typed for both HSV-1 and HSV-2, so that's pretty definitive, right? As far as sympathy goes, you have mine. It must be horrible to have an STD while you're still a virgin. That sucks! In my mind, HSV-2 is the one that is probably more likely a result of risky behavior, while HSV-1 can be acquired quite innocently. And yet, of the two, I'd rather have HSV-2 because it's not so easily seen. Furthermore, HSV-1 must be more easily spread, therefore harder to manage. Does any of this make sense to you? >bettyboop, > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> embarrassed to buy condoms. When men buy them, nobody thinks less of them. >> Not so for women. If they used type-specific testing for both HSV-1 AND HSV-2 and it was properly interpreted, then it is definitive. It tells you that you have been exposed to herpes at some time, in some place. Thanks for your words. It is horrible because I have no idea how to tell girls that I have a type of herpes and am a virgin. It really does suck, it's embarassing, annoying, and precluding to all relationships. Yes, HSV-2 is definitely associated with risky behavior, but not always of course. People with HSV-2 tend to be very unsupportive of people with HSV-1 too. HSV-1 is very easily spread and very hard to manage. For instance, would you say that I have to tell girls before I even kiss them? > I saw the lab results and it was typed for both HSV-1 and HSV-2, so that's > pretty definitive, right? As far as sympathy goes, you have mine. It must be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have HSV-2 because it's not so easily seen. Furthermore, HSV-1 must be more > easily spread, therefore harder to manage. Does any of this make sense to you? >If they used type-specific testing for both HSV-1 AND HSV-2 and it was >properly interpreted, then it is definitive. It tells you that you have [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >For instance, would you say that I have to tell girls before I even >kiss them? Eric, From what I understand, it's not contagious unless you're symptomatic. Most people don't realize that cold sores are really HSV-1 and that they are contagious. In fact, from what I've read, little kids get it all the time because they share drinks. I always told my kids not to because of cold germs. I had no idea they could get herpes. If you can't spread it unless you're symptomatic, I wouldn't bring it up unless you are symptomatic. You could just say something like "I don't want to kiss you right now because I have a cold sore and I don't want you to get it." That will show that you are considerate of her and she'll appreciate it. Later, after you get to know her better and feel more comfortable, you could discuss what cold sores really are. You never know. She might have them too and not be aware that she can spread it. That's just my perspective. Of course, if you are contagious all the time, that changes everything. What do the experts say? >> I saw the lab results and it was typed for both HSV-1 and HSV-2, so that's >> pretty definitive, right? As far as sympathy goes, you have mine. It must be >[quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> have HSV-2 because it's not so easily seen. Furthermore, HSV-1 must be more >> easily spread, therefore harder to manage. Does any of this make sense to you? It is still possible to pass herpes even when there are no signs or symptoms. Just thought I would mention that because it was stated that you couldn't pass herpes on unless a person had symptoms. Angela http://yoshi2me.com > Eric, > > From what I understand, it's not contagious unless you're symptomatic. Asymptomatic shedding happens with both types of herpes simplex. So yes, someone can shed the virus when they are not showing any signs or symptoms and that is how it is so easily spread. >Most people don't realize that cold sores are really HSV-1 and that they >are > contagious. That's true! >In fact, from what I've read, little kids get it all the time > because they share drinks. I'd like to see the stats on that one. Probably the only time I'd ask to see some stats. :) No, that is NOT the most common way to get oral herpes. Herpes needs skin to skin contact in order to spread. Yes, someone COULD get it from sharing a drink, but it is more likely they got it from a well-meaning family member who was giving them a kiss hello on the cheek. >I always told my kids not to because of cold germs. > I had no idea they could get herpes. Good hygiene is always important. >If you can't spread it unless you're > symptomatic, I wouldn't bring it up unless you are symptomatic. Point already discussed. Anyway, the telling of oral herpes is really a tough one to figure out. Though the vast majority never, ever say anything to anyone prior to kissing, and who wants to ruin the mood of a potential first kiss, anyway? But the question remains, is it the right thing to tell? I don't have an answer. I think if it were me, I'd probably use Valtrex and lysine if I plan on dating. That way, I could probably nearly assure myself I wasn't shedding. Then, when things get to the point of needing to talk about stds, I'd have to disclose my oral herpes because I could give it to someone genitally through oral sex. Though, in the bit of dating I've done since being divorced, everyone I've gone out with either had type 2 herpes already, or got cold sores. I have yet to date a herpes-free person. ar > Asymptomatic shedding happens with both types of herpes simplex. So yes, > someone can shed the virus when they are not showing any signs or symptoms > and that is how it is so easily spread. Which is precisely why I can give it to someone by kissing them even when I feel fine. Would you suggest that I tell partners before I kiss them, Grant? > I'd like to see the stats on that one. Probably the only time I'd ask to > see some stats. :) No, that is NOT the most common way to get oral herpes. > Herpes needs skin to skin contact in order to spread. Yes, someone COULD > get it from sharing a drink, but it is more likely they got it from a > well-meaning family member who was giving them a kiss hello on the cheek. No, herpes does NOT NEED skin to skin contact to spread. Certainly most people probably get it from some type of a kiss, but how would you feel if you did get it from sharing a cup? > Good hygiene is always important. Won't argue there! :-) > Point already discussed. No, go further than that Grant--do you think, given the implications of telling, that it should take place even before a kiss? > Anyway, the telling of oral herpes is really a tough one to figure out. > Though the vast majority never, ever say anything to anyone prior to > kissing, and who wants to ruin the mood of a potential first kiss, anyway? I know it's tough to figure out. That's why I'm asking for help. I'm thinking f.ck it, I might as well be part of the vast majority, right Grant? > But the question remains, is it the right thing to tell? I don't have an > answer. I think if it were me, I'd probably use Valtrex and lysine if I > plan on dating. That way, I could probably nearly assure myself I wasn't > shedding. No you couldn't "possibly nearly assure" anything. And you don't like statistics. What if one person you did kiss got it in spite of taking Valtrex? How would you feel then? > Then, when things get to the point of needing to talk about stds, > I'd have to disclose my oral herpes because I could give it to someone > genitally through oral sex. Good, I'm glad you said that. And then you know what your partner says to you? "Why did you never tell me about it and keep it from me! You don't care about me!" > Though, in the bit of dating I've done since > being divorced, everyone I've gone out with either had type 2 herpes > already, or got cold sores. I have yet to date a herpes-free person. How do you know they got coldsores? Did they volunteer that info, or did you ask them if they did? Angela hasn't replied yet. I assume she can't figure out what to say or simply doesn't care because it's oral and it's HSV-1. *snipped message full of argumentative attitude not worthy of replying to* >> Then, when things get to the point of needing to talk about stds, >> I'd have to disclose my oral herpes because I could give it to someone [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to you? "Why did you never tell me about it and keep it from me! You > don't care about me!" Why don't you become a monk or go into the priesthood. Then you won't have to worry so much about it. >> Though, in the bit of dating I've done since >> being divorced, everyone I've gone out with either had type 2 herpes >> already, or got cold sores. I have yet to date a herpes-free person. > > How do you know they got coldsores? Did they volunteer that info, or > did you ask them if they did? I asked them, Eric. AFTER we had done our kissing and BEFORE we had moved to the point of sex. It came out when I would sit down to tell them about my herpes. I'd ask them if they had ever had a cold sore. None of them had told me before-hand that they had cold sores, Eric. And I was certainly not offended or upset by the fact that they didn't. The fact is, people rarely do say something prior to kissing. I accept that fact and don't let it bother me. > Angela hasn't replied yet. I assume she can't figure out what to say or > simply doesn't care because it's oral and it's HSV-1. Perhaps she hasn't bothered to reply yet because you really haven't endeared yourself to us and your constant battling really makes people feel like they don't want to get involved with talking to you. I certainly wouldn't mind if you stopped replying to my posts. She did say you should figure out what YOU want to do. I agree. It isn't MY job to tell you how to live your life. I offered you suggestions and all the compassion I had and you returned it with negativity and constant battles. I don't have anything more to give to you. ar > Why don't you become a monk or go into the priesthood. Then you won't have > to worry so much about it. I'm frustrated Grant, not purposely argumentative. You yourself said that it's a very hard question to answer. That said, read my next paragraph :-) > I asked them, Eric. AFTER we had done our kissing and BEFORE we had moved > to the point of sex. It came out when I would sit down to tell them about [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > do say something prior to kissing. I accept that fact and don't let it > bother me. Now see this is what I need to hear. :-) This is all I have been asking for. And I'm sorry if you think I've been argumentative to get you to tell me specifics, but they are what is useful to me. I need to hear that people didn't tell you beforehand and that you found out when you sat them down to talk to them. Thank you so much, and I'm sorry again about any arguing, but I didn't know how else to get you to tell me specifics. > Perhaps she hasn't bothered to reply yet because you really haven't endeared > yourself to us and your constant battling really makes people feel like they > don't want to get involved with talking to you. I certainly wouldn't mind > if you stopped replying to my posts. Well I don't know that we should be endeared to each other since I play the devil's advocate. I respect her views as being different than mine. And I want you to realize that the best way to truly examine something in my book is to take sides, rip it apart, and delve into it. It's called the dialectic. I never take it personally, and neither should you or Angela. I play the devil's advocate so that there is an actual examination of the matter at hand, not just one-sided ideas. Again, my apologies if playing devil's advocate offends you or seems like I am personally battling anyone. I'm not, and I have a great deal of respect for everyone on here, including Angela. > She did say you should figure out what YOU want to do. I agree. It isn't > MY job to tell you how to live your life. I offered you suggestions and all > the compassion I had and you returned it with negativity and constant > battles. I don't have anything more to give to you. But that's just the problem--I can't figure out what to do! If I could, I wouldn't be asking questions. I have taken all of your suggestions to heart and I can't tell you how much I appreciate them and how much of a help they are to me. I hate playing the devil's advocate because like you said you and Angela aren't "endeared to me" but I believe it's a necessary job. Eric, You are not playing the devil's advocate. You are merely being rude and offensive. I will not tolerate you playing games with me. Your apologies mean nothing because you turn around and do it again. If you were to actually be nice, you'd be surprised by how many people would bend over backwards to help you. But it will be a very long time before we trust you. Yes, you do attack personally, don't try to rewrite your own history. ar >> Why don't you become a monk or go into the priesthood. Then you won't >> have [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > you said you and Angela aren't "endeared to me" but I believe it's a > necessary job. > You are not playing the devil's advocate. You are merely being rude and > offensive. *Sigh*. You just don't understand what playing devil's advocate means. It is my job to present counter-arguments, some of which you might hate. You are unable to stay personally uninvolved in an argument. At the end of the day, when all arguments are made and when all is said and done, I don't hold one iota of bitterness towards you. You shouldn't hold any towards me. Once again, hate my arguments and attack them, not me personally. > I will not tolerate you playing games with me. Your apologies > mean nothing because you turn around and do it again. Playing games with you? Are you serious? I'm looking for serious help here. I'm trying to have an intellectual argument and you think I'm being both offensive and playing games? I bet my HSV-1 is a joke to you. Maybe you think that it isn't affecting my life and I'm sitting here trying to find answers for some type of "game". That really hurts, Grant. > If you were to actually be nice, you'd be surprised by how many people would bend over > backwards to help you. But it will be a very long time before we trust you. Your definition of being nice wouldn't allow me to get questions answered though. Do you have any damn idea of just how unhelpful it is to hear "I don't know what to tell you" or "well it's up to you" or "you decide for yourself"? That's a red herring. Nobody would bend over backwards to help me because I have ORAL HSV-1. There is such hypocrisy about herpes, and that's what hurts so bad. Nobody gives a sh.t about helping people with oral HSV-1, ok? They don't care. They say to themselves "coldsores", who cares, it's the people with genital HSV-2 we have to help. I'm suffering just as much as you. I hate this stupid virus. I never engaged in any risky behavior to get this, I'm still a virgin. And now I have to try to tell girls that I have never had sex and have herpes. You don't care about the injustice of this at all. Meanwhile, people who have had double digit sex partners come here and everyone bends over backwards because they have genital HSV-2 (most likely). I want you to seriously think about this. I did nothing sexually to get this and yet you're unwilling to help me. You are incredibly dillusional, Eric. > *Sigh*. You just don't understand what playing devil's advocate means. > It is my job to present counter-arguments, some of which you might [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > shouldn't hold any towards me. Once again, hate my arguments and attack > them, not me personally. I do, indeed, know what playing devil's advocate means. Don't be condescending to me. You are not playing devil's advocate. That is just your latest way of excusing your bad behavior. When you stop attacking people personally, then I'll reconsider how I feel about you. But no sooner than that. > Playing games with you? Are you serious? Do you not read what you write? You said you act this way to get people to respond to you. It's called manipulation. I don't play games. When you finally grow up, you will be disgusted with your own behavior. >I'm looking for serious help > here. I'm trying to have an intellectual argument and you think I'm > being both offensive and playing games? Intellectual argument? Is that what you call it? > I bet my HSV-1 is a joke to you. Maybe you think that it isn't > affecting my life and I'm sitting here trying to find answers for some > type of "game". That really hurts, Grant. I don't care. As far as I know, you are just trying to manipulate me again. Too bad. I won't fall for it. > Your definition of being nice wouldn't allow me to get questions > answered though. What are talking about. Wait, don't bother answering. You're just trying to excuse your bad behavior again. >Do you have any damn idea of just how unhelpful it is > to hear "I don't know what to tell you" or "well it's up to you" or > "you decide for yourself"? Um...we are not here to cater to you, Eric. You didn't listen when we tried to honestly help you, so don't expect people to want to help you now. > That's a red herring. Nobody would bend over backwards to help me > because I have ORAL HSV-1. Didn't you just find that out a few weeks ago? I've been listening to you whine a lot longer than that. >There is such hypocrisy about herpes, and > that's what hurts so bad. Only in your own head. You feel the need to create drama. Well, start your own group and dwell on it all you want in there. >Nobody gives a sh.t about helping people with > oral HSV-1, ok? That's a lie created by you. You're upset because no one wants to help YOU. That's because you are rude and insulting and alienated all the regulars here. You brought this on yourself. Now you will have to live with the consequences of your actions. >They don't care. They say to themselves "coldsores", > who cares, it's the people with genital HSV-2 we have to help. No one says that except you. You. You are the one perpetuating this myth. All to create drama and make it about you. > I'm suffering just as much as you. News flash, Eric. I'm not suffering. Yet another thing you've made up in your own head. Oh wo-is-me!! I have herpes, my life is over. Everyone who has herpes is suffering. Oh dear. Eric, I'm not suffering. I don't need a support group to figure out how to live my life. When I first got herpes, there were no support groups online. I figured my life out on my own. I didn't need a bunch of faceless names on a computer screen to tell me how to function. > I hate this stupid virus. Take your anger out on your virus and leave us out of it. > I never > engaged in any risky behavior to get this, I'm still a virgin. Yeah, just like all the other people who are virgins and have oral herpes. How do the children with cold sores function??? Oh, I guess they just go on with their lives and don't let it bother them. >And now > I have to try to tell girls that I have never had sex and have herpes. How you decide to tell them is your own choice. > You don't care about the injustice of this at all. No, I don't. We all have our own baggage to deal with. What makes you more special than everyone else? >Meanwhile, people > who have had double digit sex partners come here and everyone bends > over backwards because they have genital HSV-2 (most likely). No, we bend over backwards to help them because they are nice and ask questions and then listen to what we say and move on. I did the same for you but you didn't care. It doesn't matter if someone has type 1 or 2. It only matters to you, apparently. > I want you to seriously think about this. I don't really need to. >I did nothing sexually to get > this and yet you're unwilling to help me. You are not my responsibility. Let's repeat that: you are not my responsibility. You have oral herpes. So do lots of other people. And many of them have never had sex. It's just a fact. It's just the way it is. Let's put it into perspective. How about all those people who die of lung cancer who have never smoked. Now, THAT's injustice. You get a sore on your lip. ar > You are incredibly dillusional, Eric. Ok, you can attack me personally and call me "delusional" and if I attack your ARGUMENT, I'm the bad guy? Grow up and learn how to have a CIVIL debate. > I do, indeed, know what playing devil's advocate means. Don't be > condescending to me. You are not playing devil's advocate. That is just > your latest way of excusing your bad behavior. I'm not being condescending to you. That wasn't the tone of the remarks made here. I'd be really curious to know how you know that I'm not playing devil's advocate. I guess you know my intentions and purposes better than I do. Or maybe you just have no tolerance for people who question what you have to say. If that's the case, I'm sure the Bush administration will happily hire you. :-) > When you stop attacking people personally, then I'll reconsider how I feel > about you. But no sooner than that. Ok, the facts speak for themselves. You just told me I'm "incredibly delusional". I told you that I respect you and at the end of the day I don't harbor any bitterness from arguments. I don't take arguments personally like you do. > Do you not read what you write? You said you act this way to get people to > respond to you. It's called manipulation. I don't play games. When you > finally grow up, you will be disgusted with your own behavior. No, it's called asking for help. I need hard questions answered. I don't need to be danced around and have irrelevent stuff thrown at me. I guess everyone who comes on here looking for help is being manipulative in your view. When you finally grow up you will realize how people with oral herpes suffer just as much as you do. > I don't care. As far as I know, you are just trying to manipulate me again. > Too bad. I won't fall for it. See, here's where your manipulative claim falls apart. Why should I or anyone else have to manipulate you into caring for other people with herpes on a herpes support group? Answer that. So having some compassion for people having coldsores is manipulative to you. > Um...we are not here to cater to you, Eric. You didn't listen when we tried > to honestly help you, so don't expect people to want to help you now. Cater to me? How about offer some help, advice, compassion, or understanding? I know I have HSV-1 and I know it's oral, but geez. I'm suffering the same as the person with HSV-2. I guess by questioning what you had to say you think I didn't listen to you. You're sadly wrong. > Only in your own head. You feel the need to create drama. Well, start your > own group and dwell on it all you want in there. No it's in your head. You think that I have the "innocent" form of herpes. Therefore, you don't give a sh.t about me. You don't care about people with oral herpes. I have yet to see you offer one bit of advice or understanding and compassion towards people with oral anything. > That's a lie created by you. You're upset because no one wants to help YOU. No, I'm upset because you DON'T CARE enough to help someone who has ORAL herpes. > That's because you are rude and insulting and alienated all the regulars > here. You brought this on yourself. Now you will have to live with the > consequences of your actions. Back to this. You have circular logic. We are going in circles. If by questioning the so-called regulars I am "rude and insulting", well then too bad. I don't care how "regular" you think you are. Natropractica was a "regular" too. He was grinding up leaves in clay pots in rum and selling them for $100 a pop. But he was a "regular" so he dare not be questioned. Ridiculous! > No one says that except you. You. You are the one perpetuating this myth. > All to create drama and make it about you. No Grant, the truth is you really don't care about people with oral hsv. Your comments below are indicative of that. > News flash, Eric. I'm not suffering. Yet another thing you've made up in > your own head. Oh wo-is-me!! I have herpes, my life is over. Everyone who > has herpes is suffering. Oh dear. New flash, Grant. I am anxious and confused about this. You know what's in my head to make me feel that way? HSV-1. Your "Oh wo-is-me!! I have herpes, my life is over" shows me you really think that oral herpes is insignificant and you don't care about people who have it. > Eric, I'm not suffering. Good for you. > I don't need a support group to figure out how to live my life. When I > first got herpes, there were no support groups online. I figured my life > out on my own. I didn't need a bunch of faceless names on a computer screen > to tell me how to function. So you won't help me because when you got it there were no support groups online? If you don't need a support group setting, then why have you been here all of these years? > Yeah, just like all the other people who are virgins and have oral herpes. > How do the children with cold sores function??? Oh, I guess they just go on > with their lives and don't let it bother them. Proof positive that you don't know or care about what having oral herpes is all about. How about the kid who gets them extremely frequently? Or the kid who gets made fun of for having a coldsore? You have no idea how embarassing it can be. How about the guy who gets turned down for a date because of it? How about the person who then gets it in the eye after it spreads? You have no idea what you are talking about. You just think people who have oral herpes aren't bothered by it one bit. You think that everything is just peachy for them. It's sick, because this line of reasoning it what foments the stigma about herpes. > How you decide to tell them is your own choice. No, what this statement means is I don't care enough to put any thought into giving you a real answer. > No, I don't. We all have our own baggage to deal with. What makes you more > special than everyone else? The fact that I didn't have sex. You and others did. And the fact that you won't help someone with herpes. > No, we bend over backwards to help them because they are nice and ask > questions and then listen to what we say and move on. I did the same for > you but you didn't care. It doesn't matter if someone has type 1 or 2. It > only matters to you, apparently. I didn't say it mattered if they have type-1 or type-2. I said it mattered if it's oral or genital. People with an oral infection don't count in your eyes. > You are not my responsibility. Let's repeat that: you are not my > responsibility. You have oral herpes. So do lots of other people. And > many of them have never had sex. It's just a fact. It's just the way it > is. Let me repeat this: You don't feel any compassion for me because I have an oral infection. It's a fact that there a 7 days in a week and that George Bush says "nuclear" as "nucular". I wouldn't expect any compassion out of you on these facts. But with herpes and human suffering, saying "it's just a fact. it's just the way it is" is callous. Got it? CALLOUS. Let me put it all in perspective: To you, I have just a sore on my lip. And you don't care about lips unless they're down south. Only then does it count to you. This will be my last post on this. With each of your posts you get further and further into your delusion. > Ok, you can attack me personally and call me "delusional" and if I > attack your ARGUMENT, I'm the bad guy? Grow up and learn how to have a > CIVIL debate. You don't always attack arguments, Eric. You attack people. And I haven't presented any arguments that need to be attacked. So your excuse doesn't hold water. It seems to me that what you can't stand is when someone on here gets some compassion that you feel you deserve and aren't getting. > I'm not being condescending to you. That wasn't the tone of the remarks > made here. I'd be really curious to know how you know that I'm not > playing devil's advocate. People who play devil's advocate present another side of the argument for discussion. Your way of "attacking an argument" is rude and horribly obnoxious. You make stuff up about the people--such as your assumptions about how I feel about oral herpes. You firmly stated on more than one occasion how women are only after money and looks. You've insulted the heck out of the people who come here and then excuse yourself by saying you're playing devil's advocate. Nope, you are just being rude. >I guess you know my intentions and purposes > better than I do. Yes, because you must be lying to yourself. >Or maybe you just have no tolerance for people who > question what you have to say. What have I said that you've questioned? I can't remember anything except when you were saying there was no reason for you to ever tell anyone that you have herpes and I said there was for many reasons including self-respect. Or, wait, perhaps it was when you were saying that no woman would ever want to marry you and have children with you because you have herpes, and I told you that wasn't true, that you will go on to live a wonderful full life with a wife and children. No, wait, I know, it was when you said your life was over because you have herpes, and I told you that wasn't true, that you could be and do whatever you want to do because herpes doesn't own you (apparently not the case for you). Yes, that must be it! Look how evil I am by saying those comforting things to you! Wow! I'm horrible. > Ok, the facts speak for themselves. You just told me I'm "incredibly > delusional". I told you that I respect you and at the end of the day I > don't harbor any bitterness from arguments. I don't take arguments > personally like you do. If you respected me, then you would act like it. You don't act respectful, therefore you do not respect me. Perhaps you should start taking arguments personally because you keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again. If you would take responsibility for your actions, then perhaps you would grow up a bit. > No, it's called asking for help. Badgering people is not asking for help. >I need hard questions answered. I > don't need to be danced around and have irrelevent stuff thrown at me. What you may feel is irrelevant is up to you. But just because you don't like the advice that was given you does not mean it is bad advice. > I guess everyone who comes on here looking for help is being > manipulative in your view. Only you, Eric. >When you finally grow up you will realize > how people with oral herpes suffer just as much as you do. Please, you had your first outbreak, finally, so now you know you have oral herpes. It's amazing how you went from condemning us all because you have type 1 herpes--remember that, Eric--to now narrowing it down to oral herpes because you know where it is. If you had herpes only on your thumbnail, it would be all about that. "Oh, you don't care about me because I have herpes on my thumbnail! Oh dear, if only I had oral herpes you'd give me good advice and some compassion." Eric, your tune changes faster than the wind. > See, here's where your manipulative claim falls apart. Why should I or > anyone else have to manipulate you into caring for other people with > herpes on a herpes support group? Because all you want to do is stir up trouble. It's what you've done in the other groups you belong to. This is what YOU do. No one else has come in here and behaved as poorly as you have. >Answer that. So having some > compassion for people having coldsores is manipulative to you. No, being manipulated into responding to you is manipulative. You are now trying to twist words around to deflect your own responsibility. One of your old tricks. > Cater to me? How about offer some help, advice, compassion, or > understanding? I know I have HSV-1 and I know it's oral, but geez. I'm > suffering the same as the person with HSV-2. I guess by questioning > what you had to say you think I didn't listen to you. You're sadly > wrong. Perhaps you should go back into the archives and reread everything I sent to you. The help was offered. The advice was offered. The compassion was offered. The understanding was offered. But you just abused it and threw it away and came back demanding more. It's never enough for you, Eric. > No it's in your head. You think that I have the "innocent" form of > herpes. Wrong, something else you've made up. >Therefore, you don't give a sh.t about me. I don't care about you because you've abused the privilege of my caring. >You don't care about > people with oral herpes. Another lie you've made up to make yourself some sort of martyr. >I have yet to see you offer one bit of advice > or understanding and compassion towards people with oral anything. Here he is, everyone...ERIC! The man who rates your advice! Wooohooo!!! How exciting. People with oral herpes don't generally come here because they actually manage to live their lives without demanding things from people in anonymous newsgroups. >> That's a lie created by you. You're upset because no one wants to help >> YOU. > > No, I'm upset because you DON'T CARE enough to help someone who has > ORAL herpes. No, it's about you, Eric. How many others have come in here with oral herpes since you've been here? None? So, you are determining this based on...what?...oh, NOTHING. >> That's because you are rude and insulting and alienated all the regulars >> here. You brought this on yourself. Now you will have to live with the >> consequences of your actions. > > Back to this. You have circular logic. Hahahaha! >We are going in circles. If by > questioning the so-called regulars I am "rude and insulting", well then > too bad. I don't care how "regular" you think you are. Natropractica > was a "regular" too. He was grinding up leaves in clay pots in rum and > selling them for $100 a pop. But he was a "regular" so he dare not be > questioned. Ridiculous! You don't question, you insult. Learn the difference. Natropractica is a nice man who never did anything to you. It's not whether you agree or disagree with someone, it's how you present yourself. You present yourself poorly, like a spoiled rotten child demanding attention. >> No one says that except you. You. You are the one perpetuating this >> myth. >> All to create drama and make it about you. > > No Grant, the truth is you really don't care about people with oral > hsv. Your comments below are indicative of that. Again, something you've made up in your own mind. >> News flash, Eric. I'm not suffering. Yet another thing you've made up >> in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > herpes, my life is over" shows me you really think that oral herpes is > insignificant and you don't care about people who have it. No, I think you are insignificant. I didn't use to but you wore out all the compassion I had for you. You did this yourself. > So you won't help me because when you got it there were no support > groups online? > If you don't need a support group setting, then why have you been here > all of these years? No, I won't help you because I did, and you still went on and on and on and on and insulted us and insulted women and just kept on insulting and insulting and making stuff up in your head. I don't need herpes support, but others do. > Proof positive that you don't know or care about what having oral > herpes is all about. I don't HAVE oral herpes, Eric. You want people who don't have your "disease" to give you advice on how to handle it. That's insane. Just as I can't give advice to someone on how to handle their diabetes...I don't have it. I don't know what it is like to have oral herpes. But I do care about others who have it. >How about the kid who gets them extremely > frequently? Or the kid who gets made fun of for having a coldsore? You > have no idea how embarassing it can be. There are plenty other things to be embarrassed about. It's not all about herpes. >How about the guy who gets > turned down for a date because of it? How about the person who then > gets it in the eye after it spreads? How about...how about...how about... How about the guy who gets turned down for a date because he's rude. > You have no idea what you are talking about. You just think people who > have oral herpes aren't bothered by it one bit. Another story you've made up in your head to help you on your crusade about Eric. >You think that > everything is just peachy for them. It's sick, because this line of > reasoning it what foments the stigma about herpes. ZZZZZZZZZZZZ >> How you decide to tell them is your own choice. > > No, what this statement means is I don't care enough to put any thought > into giving you a real answer. See, you just don't want to think on your own. You want someone to write a script for you. It ain't gonna happen. I did that once, you really didn't care. I'm not wasting my time again. >> No, I don't. We all have our own baggage to deal with. What makes you >> more >> special than everyone else? > > The fact that I didn't have sex. You and others did. And the fact that > you won't help someone with herpes. Perhaps this is just about sex, then, with you. You really don't care about anyone else with oral herpes, do you. Just really about you and oral herpes and the fact you're still a virgin. > I didn't say it mattered if they have type-1 or type-2. I said it > mattered if it's oral or genital. People with an oral infection don't > count in your eyes. Up until a few weeks ago, you were all about the type 1 and 2 thing because you didn't know where your location was. But you've changed your story now. People with genital infections don't count in YOUR eyes. > Let me repeat this: You don't feel any compassion for me because I have > an oral infection. Let's be clear about this. I don't feel any compassion for you because you treat people poorly. The rest you've made up in your head. Wait, perhaps the problem is that you don't know how to disassociate yourself from herpes. You are not herpes, Eric. You and the virus are two different things. The problem is YOU, not herpes. You are rude, your oral infection is not. >It's a fact that there a 7 days in a week and that > George Bush says "nuclear" as "nucular". I wouldn't expect any > compassion out of you on these facts. But with herpes and human > suffering, saying "it's just a fact. it's just the way it is" is > callous. Got it? CALLOUS. No, it's just the way it is. You determined it is callous. That's your perception. > Let me put it all in perspective: To you, I have just a sore on my lip. > And you don't care about lips unless they're down south. Only then does > it count to you. You're full of crap, Eric. ar > This will be my last post on this. With each of your posts you get further > and further into your delusion. Good, looks like I get the last word then. LOL > You don't always attack arguments, Eric. You attack people. And I haven't > presented any arguments that need to be attacked. So your excuse doesn't > hold water. Yes, you do present arguments that need to be questioned. > It seems to me that what you can't stand is when someone on here gets some > compassion that you feel you deserve and aren't getting. It seems to me that you are only able to offer compassion to someone with genital herpes. > People who play devil's advocate present another side of the argument for > discussion. Glad to see you understand that. > You firmly stated on more than one > occasion how women are only after money and looks. And that's 100% true, LOL. You can go into any barber shop or bar with enough guys and you'll hear the same thing any night of the week. It's called guys grumbling. LOL > You've insulted the heck > out of the people who come here and then excuse yourself by saying you're > playing devil's advocate. Nope, you are just being rude. I'm not going to defend my intentions to you. I'm telling you plain and simple that I'm playing devil's advocate. If you can't accept that, I don't know what else to say. > What have I said that you've questioned? I can't remember anything except > when you were saying there was no reason for you to ever tell anyone that [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Look how evil I am by saying those comforting things to you! Wow! I'm > horrible. Look I don't need support from you. I want you to understand that. I did when I first found out I had HSV-1. Now I have hard questions that need to be answered. Every supportive thing you ever said to me, I appreciate. I can't tell you that enough. I've also told you, at the end of the day, I don't harbor any personal animosity towards you or anyone else. If you want to do that, then it's on your conscience. I'm arguing issues here, not spouting personal attacks like Angela is doing. > Badgering people is not asking for help. Asking hard questions is not badgering people. > What you may feel is irrelevant is up to you. But just because you don't > like the advice that was given you does not mean it is bad advice. I never said it was bad advice! Ever! I have received some great advice. Once again, I thank you for it. > Please, you had your first outbreak, finally, so now you know you have oral > herpes. Yes, do you expect me to be dancing in the streets or something? LOL > It's amazing how you went from condemning us all because you have > type 1 herpes--remember that, Eric--to now narrowing it down to oral herpes > because you know where it is. I still believe that there is a great disparity in people's opinions and in how people assist and support others based on whether it is HSV-1, HSV-2, oral, or genital. > If you had herpes only on your thumbnail, it > would be all about that. "Oh, you don't care about me because I have herpes > on my thumbnail! Herpetic whitlow of the finger is reputably very painful, not to mention the possibility of spreading the virus. I wouldn't make it the butt of a joke if I were you. It's not exactly sensitive. > Because all you want to do is stir up trouble. It's what you've done in the > other groups you belong to. This is what YOU do. No one else has come in > here and behaved as poorly as you have. No, Because I want people to think on their feet. There is a lot of dogma associated with herpes. It's my nature to examine it as fact, not dogma. > No, being manipulated into responding to you is manipulative. You are now > trying to twist words around to deflect your own responsibility. One of > your old tricks. So you're being manipulated by someone asking you questions on A.S.H? What am I trying to manipulate you to do, give me some answers or compassion? > Perhaps you should go back into the archives and reread everything I sent to > you. The help was offered. The advice was offered. The compassion was > offered. The understanding was offered. But you just abused it and threw > it away and came back demanding more. It's never enough for you, Eric. I just got though telling you above how helpful your advice was when I first came here. Again, it really is appreciated. > >Therefore, you don't give a sh.t about me. > > I don't care about you because you've abused the privilege of my caring. Since when is caring about people a priviledge? If you have kids, and they upset you, are you going to revoke the priviledge of caring for people? I believe people have an obligation to love and care for each other. > Here he is, everyone...ERIC! The man who rates your advice! Wooohooo!!! > How exciting. People with oral herpes don't generally come here because > they actually manage to live their lives without demanding things from > people in anonymous newsgroups. I just rated your past advice as being very good. So what you're saying is that people with oral herpes don't care about spreading it or telling their partners or getting educated on the subject and that's why they don't come here? LOL > No, it's about you, Eric. How many others have come in here with oral > herpes since you've been here? None? So, you are determining this based > on...what?...oh, NOTHING. Gosh, I wonder why they don't come. Plenty on HHP. Maybe just because ASH isn't busy enough. > No, I think you are insignificant. I didn't use to but you wore out all the > compassion I had for you. You did this yourself. Well I think you are significant and a good person. I don't let arguments cloud my judgement of people's worth. Hopefully you don't either. > No, I won't help you because I did, and you still went on and on and on and > on and insulted us and insulted women and just kept on insulting and > insulting and making stuff up in your head. Insulted who? Natropractica? Good! The Better Business Bureau will be sending me a prize for my efforts. LOL I never insulted you intentionally. I've told you things you don't wanna hear. I've told that I think you're wrong. I've told you stats that you hate. I've brought ugly facts and stats and some "truthiness" (according to Colbert's definition) into this place. > I don't HAVE oral herpes, Eric. You want people who don't have your > "disease" to give you advice on how to handle it. That's insane. Just as I > can't give advice to someone on how to handle their diabetes...I don't have > it. I don't know what it is like to have oral herpes. But I do care about > others who have it. I don't have HSV-2. I help everyone who I come across with it though. > There are plenty other things to be embarrassed about. It's not all about > herpes. I agree. > ZZZZZZZZZZZZ No falling asleep! LOL > See, you just don't want to think on your own. You want someone to write a > script for you. It ain't gonna happen. I did that once, you really didn't > care. I'm not wasting my time again. Let me explain it on more time. Problems I face now are hard things to figure out. I have very little experience with oral herpes. I'm looking for advice and other opinions. > Perhaps this is just about sex, then, with you. You really don't care about > anyone else with oral herpes, do you. Just really about you and oral herpes > and the fact you're still a virgin. I care about everyone with oral herpes. You just don't care one bit about not having sex, and that's because you have. No mystery there. > Up until a few weeks ago, you were all about the type 1 and 2 thing because > you didn't know where your location was. But you've changed your story now. > People with genital infections don't count in YOUR eyes. I answered this above. > Let's be clear about this. I don't feel any compassion for you because you > treat people poorly. The rest you've made up in your head. Wait, perhaps > the problem is that you don't know how to disassociate yourself from herpes. > You are not herpes, Eric. You and the virus are two different things. The > problem is YOU, not herpes. You are rude, your oral infection is not. Arguing with you right now, I feel compassion for you. Did you see the Amish people showing compassion for the sick evil man who killed their little girls? That type of compassion is awesome. Absolutely awesome. If they can show that kind of compassion, I think you can show some compassion towards a guy you think has been "rude" towards you. > Let me repeat this: You don't feel any compassion for me because I have > an oral infection. Uh, no, that's not it Eric. We don't feel compassion for YOU because YOU are an a.shole. Angela > If they used type-specific testing for both HSV-1 AND HSV-2 and it was > properly interpreted, then it is definitive. It tells you that you have > been exposed to herpes at some time, in some place. Actually, it tells you that you do indeed have HSV-1 and HSV-2 if the proper set of tests were used. Exposure has nothing to do with this.. a person either has herpes simplex virus OR they do not have herpes simplex virus. > Thanks for your words. It is horrible because I have no idea how to > tell girls that I have a type of herpes and am a virgin. It really does > suck, it's embarassing, annoying, and precluding to all relationships. No, it's not. I don't undestand why talking about stds before you have sex with somebody is so difficult. Sure it can be awkward but it doesn't have to be such a big problem the way in which you are constantly describing it. > Yes, HSV-2 is definitely associated with risky behavior, but not always > of course. HSV-1 can also be associated with risky behavior, but not always of course. Come on you guys... grow up a little. > People with HSV-2 tend to be very unsupportive of people > with HSV-1 too. That's not true and you know it. > HSV-1 is very easily spread and very hard to manage. That's not true and you know it. > For instance, would you say that I have to tell girls before I even > kiss them? Eric ~ why don't you just do what you think is right. We've been going around and around about this one for a very long time. Why do you need validation and why do you continue to use blanket statements? People that think like you do are the ones that continue to perpetuate the negative stigma associated with Herpes Simplex Virus. Grow up and stop worrying what other people think. Angela :: rolls eyes:: http://yoshi2me.com -- Herpes Support (for all people that have herpes whether it's orally or genitally!! > > If they used type-specific testing for both HSV-1 AND HSV-2 and it was > > properly interpreted, then it is definitive. It tells you that you have > > been exposed to herpes at some time, in some place. > Actually, it tells you that you do indeed have HSV-1 and HSV-2 if the proper > set of tests were used. Exposure has nothing to do with this.. a person > either has herpes simplex virus OR they do not have herpes simplex virus. I'm not sure that I said anything different than what you just said. LOL > > Thanks for your words. It is horrible because I have no idea how to > > tell girls that I have a type of herpes and am a virgin. It really does > > suck, it's embarassing, annoying, and precluding to all relationships. > > No, it's not. No, in your opinion it's not. You don't have HSV-1 and you aren't still a virgin so try to imagine yourself in my shoes. > I don't undestand why talking about stds before you have sex with somebody > is so difficult. Sure it can be awkward but it doesn't have to be such a big > problem the way in which you are constantly describing it. Angela, that's because you're married. I'm not. You know the awkwardness is a problem in itself, and moreover, because there is such a fear and stigma of herpes of any type, finding this out is going to be a mortal blow to getting a relationship off the ground. I know maybe you think I'm making a bigger deal out of this than need be, but I honestly don't think I am, I just wish you could put yourself in my situation for a bit. > HSV-1 can also be associated with risky behavior, but not always of course. Well I can only speak for myself on this one, and you know I never engaged in any "risky" behavior to get my HSV-1. > Come on you guys... grow up a little. Angela, Angela, *sigh*. It's not about growing up. I just wish you could realize and empathize with other people's situations a little better. Having HSV-2 might not be a big deal to you anymore because you're married with kids. But think back until before you were..I bet it was a "big deal" then. Moreover, guys have to make all of the moves in initiating relationships and we're judged on being self-confident which this has undermined. We exclusively have to flirt and then ask the girl out. We have to lay the facts out on the table. The onus is on the guy, not the girl, and certainly not a married girl. To a single male in my shoes, having this means more than you give it credit for. > That's not true and you know it. Yes it is in my opinion. I asked you a while ago for some advice on telling partners about my coldsores. You told me you would put something together for me, and then you totally blew me off and never did anything. > > HSV-1 is very easily spread and very hard to manage. > > That's not true and you know it. No, that's 100% true. HSV-1 is very easy to spread and is high infectious. And yes, it can be hard to manage because of kissing while shedding unknowingly. > Eric ~ why don't you just do what you think is right. We've been going > around and around about this one for a very long time. I want to do what is right. But I don't want to screw myself out of relationships, too! Remember, think back to being single. > Why do you need > validation and why do you continue to use blanket statements? I don't want your validation. I just want help and advice. I want the stories and everything you said you were going to put together for me and then never did. > People that > think like you do are the ones that continue to perpetuate the negative > stigma associated with Herpes Simplex Virus. Not nice, Angela. As I said above, put yourself in my shoes. It's very easy for you to sit back now and downplay everything but put yourself in my situation. Imagine you were a guy responsible for initiating everything in a relationship who is single and sho has to tell potential partners. Then tell me that it's no big deal that it could take a good bit of time before the girl gets to see my good qualities shine in different situations, but it could only take one good date before she expects a kiss good night. Tell me it's no big deal that I would have to tell her this before she gets to know me well enough to not drop me because of it. > Grow up and stop worrying what > other people think. Put yourself in my position for a while and then tell me to stop worrying about what other people think. Maybe it will occur to you then that the people I need to worry about what they think are the people I want to form a relationship with. Here's the deal with Eric folks... He signs on and asks innocent enough questions. When he gets the answers that the regulars have presented to him he rips them apart because it's fun. Once the regulars respond to his ripping he signs back on and acts as though he really and truly has respect for the regulars. After that round of responses he signs back on to rip them apart again. Then he disappears for a couple of weeks until he gets bored enough to come back and try to play some more. Eric ~ you have herpes. You tell your potential partners only if you feel it's absolutely necessary. It's not my job to tell you how to do it or why... your a smart guy, you just graduated from college and want to be a doctor, you can figure it out all by yourself. >> > If they used type-specific testing for both HSV-1 AND HSV-2 and it was >> > properly interpreted, then it is definitive. It tells you that you have [quoted text clipped - 101 lines] > that the people I need to worry about what they think are the people I > want to form a relationship with. > Here's the deal with Eric folks... Uh, oh..LOL.. :-) > He signs on and asks innocent enough questions. When he gets the answers > that the regulars have presented to him he rips them apart because it's fun. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > couple of weeks until he gets bored enough to come back and try to play some > more. Angela, I rip the ANSWERS apart and I play the devil's advocate. I don't rip apart anyone on here personally because I do have respect for you and others. I do get frustrated sometimes, and for those times I apologize. Coming and going has nothing to do with boredom and everything to do with my busyness and confusion on these issues. > Eric ~ you have herpes. You tell your potential partners only if you feel > it's absolutely necessary. Angela, I don't know if it's absolutely necessary, necessary under circumstances, or never necessary. I'm trying to figure that out. I'm asking hard questions and playing the devil's advocate to try to find out exactly what I should do. > In my mind, > HSV-2 is the one that is probably more likely a result of risky behavior, > while HSV-1 can be acquired quite innocently. HSV-2 can be contracted quite innocently as well. > And yet, of the two, I'd rather > have HSV-2 because it's not so easily seen. I can relate to this comment. I've said on more than one occasion that I am glad people can't see my outbreaks. > Furthermore, HSV-1 must be more > easily spread, therefore harder to manage. Does any of this make sense to > you? Actually, I don't understand why you would say that Herpes in general is difficult to manage. Can you please explain what you mean? Angela http://yoshi2me.com -- Herpes Help >> Furthermore, HSV-1 must be more >> easily spread, therefore harder to manage. Does any of this make sense to >> you? >Actually, I don't understand why you would say that Herpes in general is >difficult to manage. Can you please explain what you mean? What I mean is that it's easier to keep an outbreak away from contact with others when it's not on your mouth or some other "public" part of your body. Also, about the getting it from sharing a drink, it's been stated as a possibility. I had it bass-ackwards. You're right. It's from kissing. But that you can get it even from an innocent kiss from your Aunt Bessie? That blows my mind. How easy herpes is to manage depends entirely upon whether or not you are in a stable relationship with a partner who chooses to be informed and proactive. I'm not and I've been with this guy for four years! I'm very frustrated because I feel as if I have to TELL him to get a blood test, and I know him well enough to know that he WON'T because, basically, he's a wimp. So what's my other alternative? Dump him, I guess, or let him take his chances. So I can sympathise with Eric's frustration, as I'm not sure what to do about my situation either. >http://yoshi2me.com -- Herpes Help Hi Eric, I'm doing this all wrong, apparently. I'm not very familiar with bulletin boards so I keep posting in the wrong place. My response to this posting is below. >bettyboop, > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> embarrassed to buy condoms. When men buy them, nobody thinks less of them. >> Not so for women. Err, never mind. I had it on the tree view and it was messing me up, until I changed to the list view. Sorry, folks!! >Hi Eric, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>> embarrassed to buy condoms. When men buy them, nobody thinks less of them. >>> Not so for women. |
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