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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / August 2006Still learning , quick question
damn I am confused with this new found knowledge. Am I to understand that .....follow me here, since I have genital herpes and at some point down the road my then to be ...whoever , performs oral sex on me during an outbreak on my part ( lets assume she does not have ANY STDand lets assume that the outbreak is minor and not noticable) that my genital herpes could ...."mutate" into hsv-1 on her and then down the road I could get Hsv-1 from her. (which technically would be from myself) and if thats the case ....If I touch myself today ( as I am outbroken) and rub my mouth , could that cause it to turn into Hsv-1? Is my thought process understandable? Feel stupid asking but damn this sounds like it could really get out of hand. Nope, you are confused. Don't worry, many are. There are two types of herpes simplex--type 1 and type 2. Both types can infect the genitals or the oral region. So, you can type 1 orally or genitally. The same for type 2. The virus doesn't change, just the location it lives in. Now, each virus prefers it's own location. So, type 1 prefers the mouth. Type 2 prefers the genitals. What that means is that if you are infected with type 1 genitally (as I am), then outbreaks, over time, will more than likely be less frequent and less severe than people who have type 2 genitally. And people with type 2 orally pretty much never get outbreaks. However, we've had two people with type 2 orally come through here and each was having a horrible time with their outbreaks. So, with herpes, all bets are generally off. :) If someone has type 1 oral herpes, they can give their partner type 1 genital herpes through oral sex. So, the virus can't change. But you can infect yourself orally with your type 2 as you described below. It's generally not that common. But it can happen. It's always a good idea to practice good hygiene. I hope that clarified things a bit. ar > damn I am confused with this new found knowledge. Am I to understand > that .....follow me here, since I have genital herpes and at some [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Is my thought process understandable? Feel stupid asking but damn this > sounds like it could really get out of hand. Actually a big help. Damn I,m gonna be as smart as you, Eric, Yoshi2me and the rest when all this ends. Hell I'll even be able to give advice. LOL I am going to find my original report from the doctor back in Oct. I remember it sayning exactly what I had, kinda blew it off at the time with all that was going on. Its obvious I have genital but now i'll have to see which one. Get back to ya in a couple hours. Thanks agin ....so much, ya'll have been a huge help. Now can the three of ya get together and come up with a cure???? LOL Wayne >Nope, you are confused. Don't worry, many are. > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >> Is my thought process understandable? Feel stupid asking but damn this >> sounds like it could really get out of hand. OK, Heres some info that maybe will shed some light.Otherwise come Monday I'll have to get a hold of the Doctor and get more specifics. Handwritten on the lab results page is the Dr's writing "positive for genital Herpes" nothing about the hsv-1, or hsv-2. On the first page "hsv2 IGG Type specific AB out of range 1.57h <0.90 reference range So that tells me again I have type 2, hsv-2 correct? now farther down the page it says hsv IGM AB screen not detected Now I take that as meaning HSV-! is not detected, again , correct? also it looks like they did all the hepatitis screenings a, b surface, b core, c antibody....... all non reactive this is good I also went out last November to the health clinic and got screened for AIDS, it came back negative. Thank God. So (whew) I have genital herpes hsv-2, which through oral sex could cause my future partner hsv-2 but orally through oral sex , and of course could give her hsv-2 genital. Now, I could also get Hsv-2 oral subsequently through the sex acts, BUT....Correct me if I am wrong ....if (assuming she has no prior STD) there would be no way that either of us could get HSV-1 orally or genitally.....am I yhinking this through clearl??? The reason why I am concerned is ...and I do NOT want to offend those with the oral when I say this, but especially on my job there is a stigmatism placed with the oral virus. In other words its out there for all to see. Wheras genital is ...Hidden. Thanx I think I finally got a handle on all this. Next step is to work on the frequency and severity of the outbreaks And to think I literally brought people back from the dead when I was a medic, had to memorize a bunch of drug dosages , protocals etc. etc. and I am having a hard time understanding two viruses.(that can swap living spots) LOL Hi WD, Good, I'm glad the confusion is cleared up. It does look like you have genital type 2. Now that we've got the basics down, let's get a bit more detailed. It would be unlikely for you to pass type 2 to your partner's mouth through oral sex, only because the virus really hates it there. It can happen, let's say, if she has immune system problems or a cut in the oral area which would allow the virus easy access. It is far more common to pass type 1 herpes through oral sex than type 2. Once you have one of the types, it's highly unlikely you will get it again in another location. Again, all depending on your health and other factors like cuts, etc. But it is still possible to catch the other type of herpes, though less likely because your body will soon become quite adept at dealing with the virus and the antibodies you are building up will protect you to a point. Those same antibodies will keep you from infecting yourself again in another location. It takes about a year of infection for the body to build up enough antibodies. It is really difficult to have to wear your disease on your face. Since many with type 1 oral herpes had their outbreaks when they were kids, they probably don't have outbreaks now. I bet if you asked around the station who had ever had a cold sore or fever blister, you'd be surprised by how many have it and probably don't know it's herpes. You're in a nice part of Florida. Sounds like a good place to live. ar > OK, Heres some info that maybe will shed some light.Otherwise come > Monday I'll have to get a hold of the Doctor and get more specifics. [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > and I am having a hard time understanding two viruses.(that can swap > living spots) LOL Thanks again for all this knowledge, I plan to share it with all my social circle....education, plus it will mke me look smart. (I will give you credit...LOL) So on a final note for now, hsv-2 CANNOT in any way shape or form become HSV-1? Genitally or orally. >Hi WD, > [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] >> and I am having a hard time understanding two viruses.(that can swap >> living spots) LOL Hi WD, It's our pleasure to share our hard-learned knowledge with the newbies. :) You're already smart...you came here! That's correct. In no way can type 1 become type 2 or vice versa. The type always remains the same. People can have either type both genitally or orally. Which is why we like to make sure people know to get their herpes typed, that way they know what they are dealing with, exactly. ar > Thanks again for all this knowledge, I plan to share it with all my > social circle....education, plus it will mke me look smart. (I will [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] >>> and I am having a hard time understanding two viruses.(that can swap >>> living spots) LOL > So on a final note for now, hsv-2 CANNOT in any way shape or form > become HSV-1? Genitally or orally. No, HSV-1 doesn't miraculously turn into HSV-2 and vice versa. A person can have HSV-1, HSV-2, both, or nothing at all. Make sense? Angela :)  Signature"By opening up to a partner and talking about an STD diagnosis you are showing that you respect and care about yourself as well as the other person." Herpes Help http://yoshi2me.com/index.html Shut Up & Post! http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php Herpes Blog http://herpes-help.blogspot.com/ > OK, Heres some info that maybe will shed some light.Otherwise come > Monday I'll have to get a hold of the Doctor and get more specifics. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > a, b surface, b core, c antibody....... all non reactive I will shoot Betsy (she goes by Grace on the STD Message Board) an e-mail and see if she can decipher your test results. As soon as she writes me back I will post her response for you. She's very good at figuring these things out. :) > this is good > I also went out last November to the health clinic and got screened > for AIDS, it came back negative. Thank God. Glad to hear that! :) > So (whew) I have genital herpes hsv-2, which through oral sex could > cause my future partner hsv-2 but orally through oral sex , and of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > there would be no way that either of us could get HSV-1 orally or > genitally.....am I yhinking this through clearl??? If you have genital herpes type-2 and she performs oral sex on you... the chances of her contracting oral herpes type-2 are not common at all. It's possible... but not common. If you have genital herpes type-1 and she performs oral sex on you... it's possible for her to contract oral herpes type-1. If you have genital herpes type-2 and you have regular sex with your girlfriend and she doesn't have herpes then it's possible that she might contract genital herpes tpe-2 from you. If you have genital herpes type-1 and you have regular sex with your girlfriend... the chances of her contracting genital herpes type-1 are not common at all. It's possible... but not very common. As far as passing your virus to other parts of your body... it's not likely going to happen since you have antibodies of your herpes virus built up in your body. BUT (and there's always a but here) even with the above senarios... herpes is so unpredictable that you shouldn't rule any of it out. There is always a special circumstance to each guideline. It's not a good idea to say "no this will NEVER happen" OR "yes that will always happen." Herpes is unpredictable... so the more you know about your status with your partner the better you will be able to figure out what you would like to do as far as protection goes. Every couple is different. Some do everything they can to protect their partners and others throw it all out the window and just hang from the chandeliers! :) > The reason why I am concerned is ...and I do NOT want to offend those > with the oral when I say this, but especially on my job there is a > stigmatism placed with the oral virus. In other words its out there > for all to see. Wheras genital is ...Hidden. I have always maintained that I am glad I have genital herpes vs. oral herpes. I like that people can't tell when I am having an outbreak. So, I do know where you are coming from on that note. > Thanx I think I finally got a handle on all this. > Next step is to work on the frequency and severity of the outbreaks Yup ~ and it sounds like you have a bunch of things you can try. > And to think I literally brought people back from the dead when I was > a medic, had to memorize a bunch of drug dosages , protocals etc. > etc. > and I am having a hard time understanding two viruses.(that can swap > living spots) LOL Hey... no problem. People don't notice the pregnancy commercials until they are pregnant OR have kids... ya know? Hang in there, Angela :) Signature"By opening up to a partner and talking about an STD diagnosis you are showing that you respect and care about yourself as well as the other person." Herpes Help http://yoshi2me.com/index.html Shut Up & Post! http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php Herpes Blog http://herpes-help.blogspot.com/ WD, Ok, first thing: your HSV IgM showed not detected. Since IgM's are the first antibodies produced in response to the little bugger getting in, it appears that your infection isn't brand new, on the order of weeks anyway. Next thing, your HSV-2 IgG shows a 1.57 with greater then 0.90 positive. This is a pretty low antibody count, my test was a HerpeSelect and I had a 5.0 for HSV-1 (and nothing for HSV-2). Let me make this clear, I have no idea why they didn't just run a type-specific for HSV-1 and HSV-2. If you have HSV-1, it can raise your HSV-2 count, particularly if your HSV-1 antibody levels are high. Ugh, don't talk too much about the stigma of it being oral, my lip isn't doing too good right now :-( ~Eric > OK, Heres some info that maybe will shed some light.Otherwise come > Monday I'll have to get a hold of the Doctor and get more specifics. [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > and I am having a hard time understanding two viruses.(that can swap > living spots) LOL > damn I am confused with this new found knowledge. Am I to understand > that .....follow me here, since I have genital herpes and at some [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > my genital herpes could ...."mutate" into hsv-1 on her and then down > the road I could get Hsv-1 from her. No... that's not how the heres virus operates. Check out this page I've put together with the help of Terri Warren: http://www.yoshi2me.com/hsv1-hsv2.html You might also want to read the free herpes handbook over on westoverheights.com OR you could access that from my std reading materials page here: http://www.yoshi2me.com/herpes-hpv-books.html I think once you do some reading on this virus you'll get this all figured out in no time flat! :) > (which technically would be > from myself) and if thats the case ....If I touch myself today ( as I > am outbroken) and rub my mouth , could that cause it to turn into > Hsv-1? Once you build up antibodies to your own virus it's not likely going to effect the rest of your body unless your immune system is out of whack OR your personal hygiene is extremely poor... now what I mean? > Is my thought process understandable? Feel stupid asking but damn this > sounds like it could really get out of hand. No... you should not feel bad about asking these type of questions. It's completely normal and natural to wonder about these things. Especially since this virus is a new thing for you. I totally recommend that book by ASHA called "How to Love with a Chronic STD" by Charles Ebel and Anna Wald. I think you will come to appreciate the material these two have put together. I hope this helps and I hope you have a great weekend! Angela :) Signature"By opening up to a partner and talking about an STD diagnosis you are showing that you respect and care about yourself as well as the other person." Herpes Help http://yoshi2me.com/index.html Shut Up & Post! http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php Herpes Blog http://herpes-help.blogspot.com/ hey there. Haven't posted to the group in a while but I have a new guy in my life so I'm also looking for info. I've looked over this entire thread and there's one thing that I didn't see mentioned. 80% of the population in North America has some type of Herpes Simplex virus! Because there is no stigma attached to having coldsores, people don't realize it's the same virus - even under a microscope type 1 and type 2 LOOK exactly the same. I bring this up because your partner may very well already have type 1 and there has been research showing that having antibodies for type 1 can improve resistance to type 2. I can't believe my own good fortune - after delivering the "um, I should really tell you this" news in an e-mail, this darling man I met online spent 4 HOURS researching. anyway, I hope everything works out alright for you. Dar Diva, Hi! I'd say actually your estimates of 80% of the people in North America having a herpes virus is low. Around 80% of the population has HSV-1. Around 22% has HSV-2, and that's not even counting other Herpes viruses. I agree with you, I don't think there is as bad of a stigma attached to cold sores, mostly because people are used to seeing them. And that's honestly the thing that's the most unfair about it - they aren't totally different viruses. Yes, having type-1 IMPROVES resistance to getting type-2, but by no means does it prevent transmission. And yes, some research has indicated that as HSV-1 prevalance started dropping slightly over the past few decades, HSV-2 prevalance has increased. What did you tell him, that you have coldsores or genital herpes? I have a coldsore on my lip right now and I'm really scared about telling a partner about it, but I will do it because I care about them and don't want to hurt them. I hope I meet someone willing to get educated like you did! ~Eric > hey there. Haven't posted to the group in a while but I have a new guy > in my life so I'm also looking for info. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Dar > Yes, having type-1 IMPROVES resistance to getting type-2, but by no > means does it prevent transmission. And yes, some research has > indicated that as HSV-1 prevalance started dropping slightly over the > past few decades, HSV-2 prevalance has increased. When the circumstances are just right it's always going to be possible to contract hsv-1, hsv-2, or both. Having herpes simplex virus type-1 does not help a person from contracting OR resisting getting herpes simplex virus type-2. Angela Signature"By opening up to a partner and talking about an STD diagnosis you are showing that you respect and care about yourself as well as the other person." Herpes Help http://yoshi2me.com/index.html Shut Up & Post! http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php Herpes Blog http://herpes-help.blogspot.com/ Some research indicates that having hsv-1 can offer MILD protection aginst getting hsv-2 but by no means does it prevent transmission. This is because the antibodies to hsv-1 can weakly react with hsv-2. So yes, it does offer a little resistance. Studies also indicate that people with hsv-1 antibodies who are then infected with hsv-2 tend to also be asymptomatic. ~Eric > > Yes, having type-1 IMPROVES resistance to getting type-2, but by no > > means does it prevent transmission. And yes, some research has [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Angela > hey there. Haven't posted to the group in a while but I have a new guy > in my life so I'm also looking for info. Congratulations.... > I've looked over this entire thread and there's one thing that I didn't > see mentioned. 80% of the population in North America has some type of > Herpes Simplex virus! Yes, and even more have some kind of herpesvirus of some sort, if you want to start adding VZV in there or even all the non-alpha herpesviruses. > Because there is no stigma attached to having > coldsores, people don't realize it's the same virus 'the same virus' is a phrase that has to be used very very cautiously here. Yes HSV1 and HSV2 can do the same thing in both places but HSV1 and HSV2 are NOT the same virus despite their close relationship and equating viruses isnt the best way to get the point over IMO. THe issue is to break the absolute connection in people's minds between disease in one location and one particular disease agent. Where saying the same virus can be useful is in breaking that barrier by making the point that HSV1 (specifically HSV1) causes a lot of new genital herpes cases these days. THats usually what starts breaking the commonly held views that are innaccurate (at least in my experience anyway). > - even under a > microscope type 1 and type 2 LOOK exactly the same. 'even' is unfortunately meaningless here. Under a light microscope most viruses wont be visible at all, and under an electron microscope pretty much any herpesvirus is going to look the same as another includingall the non human herpesviruses (I got desperate one time helping my boss set up a practical for students and we used this to our advantage by swapping a label or two). However the microscope is not the tool to separate herpesviruses, a brief look at say equine herppesvirus 1 and HSV1 raises some pretty major biological differences and hence thats why serology and genetics rule the day. > I bring this up because your partner may very well already have type 1 > and there has been research showing that having antibodies for type 1 > can improve resistance to type 2. True, but I wouldnt rely on it myself. > I can't believe my own good fortune - after delivering the "um, I > should really tell you this" news in an e-mail, this darling man I met > online spent 4 HOURS researching. Thats good news isnt it..... Tim -- When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart ICQ: 5178568 >> hey there. Haven't posted to the group in a while but I have a new guy >> in my life so I'm also looking for info. [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > >Tim Have to agree with you on this Tim. From all the education recieved here and elsewhere, I do not believe its fair to say they are the same. I can say with authority that HSV-2 has been extremely systemicin nature for me. Since I do not have Hsv-1 I cannot comment. But the very few people that I know who do have it, their claims (so far) have been that it is not as systemic in severity. I am sure Eric is having a rough time and I truly feel for him , but as stated cannot comment. > 'the same virus' is a phrase that has to be used very very cautiously > here. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the absolute connection in people's minds between disease in one location > and one particular disease agent. I agree with you here but I think you are missing the larger point--most of society is terribly ignorant that HSV-1 can infect places other than the oral area. And really people tend to be more forgiving towards oral herpes than genital herpes, most likely because cold sores are so common and sex almost always isn't involved. So if people can use coldsores as a metaphor for revealing their HSV-2, I think it's a rather apt move. > Where saying the same virus can be useful is in breaking that barrier by > making the point that HSV1 (specifically HSV1) causes a lot of new genital > herpes cases these days. THats usually what starts breaking the commonly > held views that are innaccurate (at least in my experience anyway). Again, that's pretty much your opinion and most people don't understand that HSV-1 can infect other regions. And that's a shame, really. > 'even' is unfortunately meaningless here. Under a light microscope most > viruses wont be visible at all, and under an electron microscope pretty > much any herpesvirus is going to look the same as another includingall the > non human herpesviruses (I got desperate one time helping my boss set up a > practical for students and we used this to our advantage by swapping a > label or two). Ok, this is stupid. I'm not sure anyone on here cares too much about light microscopes, LOL, but I guess info is always useful.. > However the microscope is not the tool to separate herpesviruses, a brief > look at say equine herppesvirus 1 and HSV1 raises some pretty major > biological differences and hence thats why serology and genetics rule the > day. Yeah, come back to reality. This isn't exactly alt.support.herpes.equine..LOL..not too many people care about equine herpes, although herpes viruses in other species are interesting. My opinion of course, ~Eric > Ok, this is stupid. I'm not sure anyone on here cares too much about > light microscopes, LOL, but I guess info is always useful.. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > ~Eric Jeez, Eric, how many other long-time contributers to this newsgroup are you planning on insulting? My opinion, of course. ar > Jeez, Eric, how many other long-time contributers to this newsgroup are you > planning on insulting? > > My opinion, of course. I don't know if telling him that he is digressing to talk about horse herpes viruses under a microscope is insulting him. I just think I'm telling him his point is irrelevent and most people on here won't even know or care that electron microscopes vs. light microscopes. No insults intended. ~Eric >> Jeez, Eric, how many other long-time contributers to this newsgroup are you >> planning on insulting? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > know or care that electron microscopes vs. light microscopes. No > insults intended. Then leave out words like 'stupid', Eric. Yes equine viruses are different - that was the point behind mentioning them - discussing the capabilities of different microscopes is hardly irrelevant when replying to statements about how herpesviruses don't differ 'even under a microscope'. Tim -- When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart ICQ: 5178568 >> 'the same virus' is a phrase that has to be used very very cautiously >> here. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > point--most of society is terribly ignorant that HSV-1 can infect > places other than the oral area. Er yes I missed it so much that later on in my post I said pointing out HSV1 can do just this is what I have found most effective in breaking down the inaccurate views people hold. >> Where saying the same virus can be useful is in breaking that barrier by >> making the point that HSV1 (specifically HSV1) causes a lot of new genital [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Again, that's pretty much your opinion and most people don't understand > that HSV-1 can infect other regions. And that's a shame, really. Yes that why I've found it most effective to point out when Im trying to inform people about the viruses.... >> 'even' is unfortunately meaningless here. Under a light microscope most >> viruses wont be visible at all, and under an electron microscope pretty [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Ok, this is stupid. I'm not sure anyone on here cares too much about > light microscopes, LOL, but I guess info is always useful.. Read the damn post in context, Eric. When you say microscope without qualification, most people are going to conjure up the image of a light microscope, some will be aware of the size issues and think electron microscope. At that point and even if they know enough about microscopes and sizes of things to assume an electron microscope my point was simple - saying two different herpesviruses look the same 'even under a microscope' as was said becomes meaningless as neither form of scope is an appropriate tool for differentiating the viruses. >> However the microscope is not the tool to separate herpesviruses, a brief >> look at say equine herppesvirus 1 and HSV1 raises some pretty major [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Yeah, come back to reality. This isn't exactly > alt.support.herpes.equine..LOL No, I was making a point that you seem to have missed in your rush to take a cheap shot. EHV and HSV look the same under a microscope (I've subbed a picture of one for the other in a practical for vet students my boss at the time ran because we lost a picture) - I was reinforcing the point that the microscope is not the tool for differentiation of herpesvirus tyes becauce they all look alike hence my use of the HSV we are interested in and the EHV - because EHV is so different. So no I wasnt waving off into alternate reality, it was there for a reason. You just seem to have missed it. >..not too many people care about equine > herpes, Oh really....the fairly large number of people Ive met while working on a vaccine development program who do must be figments of my imagination. But hey I just throw up things for no reason it seems. Tim -- When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart ICQ: 5178568 > Oh really....the fairly large number of people Ive met while working on a > vaccine development program who do must be figments of my imagination. But > hey I just throw up things for no reason it seems. > > Tim Interesting. Everyone wants "someone" to come up with a vaccine and cure, but will be rude to the people who are doing the research. ar Grant, You know what? I'm a scientist too, and I have every right to criticize him. And whatever comments I made to Tim are none of your concern really. Grow up and realize in the real world people can criticize other people's remarks and ideas and not be rude. You seem so worried about defending the scientists and so bent on condemning doctors and the rest of medicine in the same breath. Don't you know that physicians are scientists, many of whom are doing research on HSV and other infectious diseases? Why don't you think about that for a while.. ~Eric > Interesting. Everyone wants "someone" to come up with a vaccine and cure, > but will be rude to the people who are doing the research. > > ar Eric, You are the one that needs to grow up. I'm sick and tired of watching you walk through here being rude and plain old mean to people and then trying to excuse yourself with double talk. You are burning bridges at every point. I don't know why you think you have a right to criticize people--especially those that have been here for a decade, helping people. You are a troll. You are a child. You are insolent. You are rude. And it's really, really hard to continue attepting to respect you when you absolutely show no respect for anyone else. And again, no double talk trying to excuse yourself. And yes, any comments you make in this group are my concern. You walked into my home, uninvited, and determined to make trouble. Start your own group, then you can say whatever you want and insult all the ones who comment. > You seem so worried about defending the scientists and so bent on > condemning doctors and the rest of medicine in the same breath. Don't > you know that physicians are scientists, many of whom are doing > research on HSV and other infectious diseases? Why don't you think > about that for a while.. Eric, take your head out of your butt and grow up. You have no idea what you are talking about. Your narrow-minded one-way thinking is tired and shallow. ar > Eric, > > You are the one that needs to grow up. I'm sick and tired of watching you > walk through here being rude and plain old mean to people and then trying to > excuse yourself with double talk. You know what? Too bad. I just had a coldsore on my lip and what did you say to support me? This was the first coldsore I ever had and what did I get out of you? Huh? Absolutely nothing. Now you think you're going to tell me that I am mean and rude? Well fine but at least I would support you in an outbreak. > You are burning bridges at every point. I don't know why you think you have > a right to criticize people--especially those that have been here for a > decade, helping people. Are you serious? I'm criticizing your methods in order for you to see problems and fix them and continue to help people better. I don't care if you criticize me, but character attacks are pointless. Tell me what I'm doing wrong so I can identify the problem. > And it's really, really hard to continue attepting to respect you when you > absolutely show no respect for anyone else. And again, no double talk > trying to excuse yourself. Hey, at least I support people in an outbreak. I didn't get one iota of support or concern from you. That really upset me, Grant.. > And yes, any comments you make in this group are my concern. You walked > into my home, uninvited, and determined to make trouble. Start your own > group, then you can say whatever you want and insult all the ones who > comment. Determined to make trouble? Ha! I'm determined to help folks out and you're determined to undermine my every attempt. I don't care how long you are here, this groups isn't yours only. There's room enough here for a difference of opinions. You use your methods to help people, I'll use mine, ok? Truce? > Eric, take your head out of your butt and grow up. You have no idea what > you are talking about. Your narrow-minded one-way thinking is tired and > shallow. I'm sick of arguing with you. You use your methods to help people, I'll use mine. But I guess expecting support out of you during an ob is out of the question.. ~Eric You are too much. Support you in your outbreak? I said to you exactly what you say to others and you didn't take too kindly to that. I noticed that you changed your tune after that. And, when I asked you what else you thought it could be so I could address your concerns, you didn't respond. Remember? You said you were hoping it was herpes and so asked you what else it could be. > Are you serious? I'm criticizing your methods in order for you to see > problems and fix them and continue to help people better. I don't care > if you criticize me, but character attacks are pointless. Tell me what > I'm doing wrong so I can identify the problem. You're not criticizing my methods. I'm criticizing YOURS. This is the double speak I was talking about. You are the one who started with the character attacks. Your very first post in this group contained a whole lot of character attacks. I don't take kindly to people coming in and criticizing my friends. I stand up for my friends. >> And it's really, really hard to continue attepting to respect you when >> you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Hey, at least I support people in an outbreak. I didn't get one iota of > support or concern from you. That really upset me, Grant.. I'm not apologizing for using your own words. >> And yes, any comments you make in this group are my concern. You walked >> into my home, uninvited, and determined to make trouble. Start your own [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > for a difference of opinions. You use your methods to help people, I'll > use mine, ok? Truce? No truce. I'm done trying to get along with you. You've burned your last bridge with me. Undermined your every attempt? Did you not read the post where I complimented you? Don't worry, probaby won't happen again. There's nothing wrong with a difference of opinion. But you've gone way beyond that. You've been mean, condescending, insulting, rude, and just plain ridiculous. >> Eric, take your head out of your butt and grow up. You have no idea what >> you are talking about. Your narrow-minded one-way thinking is tired and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > use mine. But I guess expecting support out of you during an ob is out > of the question.. Insulting the old-timers is not exactly using a method to help people. And you getting an out-break is a good thing. Changes your perception a bit, and will allow you to actually understand what it truly feels like to have herpes. ar > You are too much. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I could address your concerns, you didn't respond. Remember? You said you > were hoping it was herpes and so asked you what else it could be. Ok, I have been telling everyone who is just diagnosed that "they will be ok" and "to hang in there" and "that they are still the same person they were before the diagnosis". Where have you been? How is asking me if it could be anything else when I'm tired, worried, and confused helpful? It's not, you made zero attempt to support me. > You're not criticizing my methods. I'm criticizing YOURS. This is the > double speak I was talking about. You are the one who started with the > character attacks. Your very first post in this group contained a whole lot > of character attacks. I don't take kindly to people coming in and > criticizing my friends. I stand up for my friends. And I have no problem with your criticism, as long as it is specific. You said you've noticed I've changed my methods somewhat. You're right, and that's from the criticism! I'm constantly changing and tweaking what I say in order to help people the most. Drop this bullshit about double-talk and argue logically and coherently. If you have a specific problem, tell me. If you are going to call me names, it offers no help, no solution, and it's irresponsible. If you throw out criticisms and tell me how much of a "troll" I am, it's just totally irresponsible because you aren't addressing the root of the problem or even attempting to help fix the issue. > I'm not apologizing for using your own words. Let me explain something to you, ok? I know I have HSV-1. I knew that coming here. Many people coming in here have no idea what HSV-1 or HSV-2 even is. Telling me "having HSV-1 puts you in the majority" is pointless and NOT support. Giving other people who don't know too much about what they have facts and statistics, both of which can be found in medical textbooks and all over the internet, is not pointless. It's educating and helping people, period. > No truce. I'm done trying to get along with you. You've burned your last > bridge with me. Undermined your every attempt? Did you not read the post > where I complimented you? Don't worry, probaby won't happen again. There's > nothing wrong with a difference of opinion. But you've gone way beyond > that. You've been mean, condescending, insulting, rude, and just plain > ridiculous. Well, that's too bad. You think not supporting me with my coldsore didn't "burn any bridges"? And then you have the nerve to tell me I'm widening the gap between HSV-1 and HSV-2 while you won't even help someone with oral herpes! Your actions clearly speak louder than your words here. I refuse to reply to your personal attacks. They are irresponsible and you know it. > Insulting the old-timers is not exactly using a method to help people. And > you getting an out-break is a good thing. Changes your perception a bit, > and will allow you to actually understand what it truly feels like to have > herpes. Now the truth comes out. Do you realize what you just said to me is hateful? Do you know that you just said my pain and embarassment are good things? That statement is unconscionable. You should be ashamed of yourself! You hate me because of what? Because I disagree with you oftentimes? Because I present facts and statistics which might not always like? Because you don't approve of the way I am trying to help folks? Because I said talking about "equine herpes and electron microscopes is stupid because it's off-topic"? Because I don't care too much for Angela? Are these really reasons to say something as hateful as you just did? I will argue with you all day and everyday and I while I might my arguments might be cutting and yes sometimes even rude, I won't hate you. I don't care what you say to me. I will love you and wish you the best, that you never get another outbreak, that you can continue to reach out and help people, and that you have a happy, healthy life. I guess that's the difference between us, huh? I hope not, I really do.. ~Eric > Ok, I have been telling everyone who is just diagnosed that "they will > be ok" and "to hang in there" and "that they are still the same person > they were before the diagnosis". All the exact same things I said to you when you first came to this group spewing self-hate and saying bad things about women. >Where have you been? Right here reading every word you've written. >How is asking me > if it could be anything else when I'm tired, worried, and confused > helpful? It's not, you made zero attempt to support me. You were not clear in your post and so I asked you for clarification. If I can't understand what you are worried about, then how can I help you? From what you wrote, it sounded to me like you were afraid it was something worse like cancer. I was asking you what you were worried about. YOU, it seems, have decided that's a bad thing. I asked you to clarify your worries. You made the decision to make it negative. That was your decision. What kind of support, exactly, were you looking for? You can't go around insulting people and then expect them to be all lovey-dovey with you when you suddenly need their help. > And I have no problem with your criticism, as long as it is specific. > You said you've noticed I've changed my methods somewhat. You're right, > and that's from the criticism! I'm constantly changing and tweaking > what I say in order to help people the most. Unfortunately, the only way to get any point through your head is to have a huge, ugly argument that lasts for days. And then, when you do finally get the point, you can't seem to figure out that if you are lacking in one way, you are probably lacking in another. And so you just keep going on and on, insulting everyone, being rude, and trying to blame someone else for your actions. > Drop this bullshit about double-talk and argue logically and > coherently. Why? You are unable to. >If you have a specific problem, tell me. I have. Repeatedly. I've copied and pasted your own words in order to point out to you what the problems are. The response from you is more insults, arguments, and the insistence that no one tells you specifics, while you are actually looking at your own words cut and pasted. I tell you something specific, but you are still too blind to hear/see/understand it. > If you are going > to call me names, it offers no help, no solution, and it's > irresponsible. Really? Irresponsible? Then why do you do it? I pretty much only respond when you've started the insulting. Some of your more recent words were schizo and stupid. And, of course, the "get back to reality" which was pretty odd since you are the one who seems to be missing the reality chip. >If you throw out criticisms and tell me how much of a > "troll" I am, it's just totally irresponsible because you aren't > addressing the root of the problem or even attempting to help fix the > issue. Um...are you two different people? When someone points something out to you, to your face, blatantly, and holds it up for all the world to see, you resort to belittling, double talk to try to place the blame on someone else...OH! That's what you're doing now. You're pretty good at finger pointing, aren't you. And what do you think is the root problem, exactly? Considering all the blatant ignoring you've done of my attempts to communicate with you more peacefully, I think the root problem is, plainly, you. >> I'm not apologizing for using your own words. > > Let me explain something to you, ok? I know I have HSV-1. I knew that > coming here. Many people coming in here have no idea what HSV-1 or > HSV-2 even is. Telling me "having HSV-1 puts you in the majority" is > pointless and NOT support. Again, just using your own words. >Giving other people who don't know too much > about what they have facts and statistics, both of which can be found > in medical textbooks and all over the internet, is not pointless. It's > educating and helping people, period. Your opinion. If it comes from you, it's okay. But if it comes from someone else, it isn't. Interesting. >> No truce. I'm done trying to get along with you. You've burned your >> last [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > someone with oral herpes! Your actions clearly speak louder than your > words here. You decided to not accept any support from me. And quite frankly, what kind of support do you expect from someone you insult? Perhaps you need therapy. The root problem might be something in your psyche. My actions over the last decade speak as loud as yours have. Before you came here, this was a good group where people could come to discuss herpes. But you've managed alienate the regulars and cause a whole lot of fighting. > I refuse to reply to your personal attacks. They are irresponsible and > you know it. Then perhaps you could stop making personal attacks against others. Perhaps you'll begin to see that it's not so nice when you get what you dish out. >> Insulting the old-timers is not exactly using a method to help people. >> And [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > good things? That statement is unconscionable. You should be ashamed of > yourself! Not hateful, just the truth. Pain and embarrassment are good things. It makes us grow into, hopefully, better people. I'm not ashamed of myself. > You hate me because of what? Because I disagree with you oftentimes? Nope. > Because I present facts and statistics which might not always like? Nope. > Because you don't approve of the way I am trying to help folks? Nope. >Because > I said talking about "equine herpes and electron microscopes is stupid > because it's off-topic"? Yep. And that's not what you said, by the way. When you insult my friends, then expect a fight. >Because I don't care too much for Angela? Nope. >Are > these really reasons to say something as hateful as you just did? Wasn't hateful. > I will argue with you all day and everyday and I while I might my > arguments might be cutting and yes sometimes even rude, I won't hate > you. If you're rude, then you're hateful. And hate is hate. You dish it out, learn to take it. >I don't care what you say to me. I will love you and wish you the > best, that you never get another outbreak, that you can continue to > reach out and help people, and that you have a happy, healthy life. I've never said otherwise to you. > I guess that's the difference between us, huh? I hope not, I really > do.. Making assumptions again? One of your specialties, by the way. Doesn't win friends. The difference between you and me, well, there are many. And getting all warm and fuzzy with me will not change the problems you have brought to this group. When I see that you've stopped the insults and stopped belittling others, then I will start to believe you are capable of even more growth. ar > You know what? Too bad. I just had a coldsore on my lip and what did > you say to support me? This was the first coldsore I ever had and what > did I get out of you? Huh? Absolutely nothing. Now you think you're > going to tell me that I am mean and rude? Well fine but at least I > would support you in an outbreak. Uh Eric... you don't even know that what you have on your lip is oral herpes. You've never had the rash on your mouth cultured to be sure that is what you are dealing with. And for somebody wet behind the ears, wants to be a doctor, and just out of college you sure are an a.s-and-a-half. You've insulted ALL the regulars on Picking Up the Pieces, you've picked people apart on the Herpes Home Page, and now you are being rude to all the regulars here on the alt.support.herpes newsgroup. You're leaving a bitter taste in everybody's mouth and then you have the nerve to wonder why nobody wants to help you when you don't feel good? Why should we help you? You seem to know everything there is to know about herpes so why would you even have the gumption to expect help from anybody that you've insulted? I've had herpes for a very long time, have been on this newsgroup trying to help people for a very long time and I don't mention my outbreaks. >> You are burning bridges at every point. I don't know why you think you >> have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > if you criticize me, but character attacks are pointless. Tell me what > I'm doing wrong so I can identify the problem. Tell you what you are doing wrong? Are you THAT dense? Pretty soon we are all going to ignore you and you won't have anybody to pick on. Then what will you do? For somebody who seems to believe he is a scientist-soon-to-be-doctor you sure are dumb. >> And it's really, really hard to continue attepting to respect you when >> you [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > ~Eric > For somebody who seems to believe he is a > scientist-soon-to-be-doctor you sure are dumb. Angela, I'm telling you the same thing I've told Grant. If you wish to continue with the hateful personal attacks and call me personally stupid and mock my education and aspirations, that's on your conscience, not mine. If you wish to say hateful things like "your outbreak is a good thing" go ahead. I point out problems, criticize ideas and methods, use statistics and facts, and yes I do get both blunt and rude sometimes when arguing, but none of this warrants hateful statements and hateful wishes. We all lose our patience and I am very passionate about the science and issues surrounding herpes. I express my own opinion and yes sometimes that does offend others, and for that I apologize. I have been scared and fearful about my hsv-1, and for that some of my statements in support groups have reflected that. Again, I'm sorry. But I won't tell you that you are stupid. I won't tell you that you are a troll, a child, a horrible person, an idiot. I hope you never get another outbreak ever. When you have an outbreak, I won't question whether what you really have is an outbreak or not. I will be here to support you in every capacity that I know how to. I will continue to wish you health and happiness regardless of what you say, and I look forward to critiques of my methods and knowledge for helping people with herpes so I can learn more and gain more experience to better help those who really are "picking up the pieces".. ~Eric > Grant, > > You know what? I'm a scientist too, Uh, no you are not a scientist. You know absolutely nothing about this virus. AND you are rude-to-boot. Angela Signature"By opening up to a partner and talking about an STD diagnosis you are showing that you respect and care about yourself as well as the other person." Herpes Help http://yoshi2me.com/index.html Shut Up & Post! http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php Herpes Blog http://herpes-help.blogspot.com/ > Uh, no you are not a scientist. Um, ok, you're simply wrong. I'm a biochemist. >> Uh, no you are not a scientist. > > Um, ok, you're simply wrong. I'm a biochemist. :: sigh :: Whatever you say Eric. > Er yes I missed it so much that later on in my post I said pointing out > HSV1 can do just this is what I have found most effective in breaking down > the inaccurate views people hold. Ok, I have no idea what you just said.. ;-) > Yes that why I've found it most effective to point out when Im trying to > inform people about the viruses.... Well I agree with you here. I think it is very effective too. > Read the damn post in context, Eric. > When you say microscope without qualification, most people are going to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the same 'even under a microscope' as was said becomes meaningless as neither > form of scope is an appropriate tool for differentiating the viruses. It doesn't matter. I think you're reading way way too far into what she said about looking the "same under a microscope". I think she was just making a point about the similarity of viruses and wasn't specifically referring to actually comparing and contrasting the two viruses under a microscope. My point is that there is no need to launch into a tirade about microscope types, you know? > No, I was making a point that you seem to have missed in your rush to take > a cheap shot. EHV and HSV look the same under a microscope (I've subbed [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > becauce they all look alike hence my use of the HSV we are interested in > and the EHV - because EHV is so different. You know what, I think that's very interesting and I'm sure others do. But just the way that you overkilled the point was what I was laughing at and calling stupid..nothing else. > So no I wasnt waving off into alternate reality, it was there for a > reason. You just seem to have missed it. I didn't miss it. My only point was that I think you totally blew past the point and missed what the girl was trying to express, which is that hsv-1 and hsv-2 are very similar viruses. That's it. Nobody said anything about electron microscopes. We all know the viruses aren't the same, but they have similarities. There is no need to go dragging electron microscopes into this...LOL > Oh really....the fairly large number of people Ive met while working > on a vaccine development program who do must be figments of my > imagination. But hey I just throw up things for no reason it seems. You know what? That's fine and great and I'm happy to hear it. But how many people are coming to a herpes support group to hear the latest on equine herpes? How many people want to know what frontiers are being reached in the feline herpes area? Do you get my point? I'm not trying to be flippant with my earlier remarks (and I apologize if it appeared that way), I just think you overkilled a point and that while the information you present is interesting, it's gratuitous. ~Eric >> Er yes I missed it so much that later on in my post I said pointing out >> HSV1 can do just this is what I have found most effective in breaking down >> the inaccurate views people hold. > > Ok, I have no idea what you just said.. ;-) Boiling it down to cases - you criticised me for missing a point, which in fact I had made a few lines below your section of reply making the criticism. >> Read the damn post in context, Eric. >> When you say microscope without qualification, most people are going to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > It doesn't matter. I think you're reading way way too far into what she > said about looking the "same under a microscope". No, not really - this is a technical discipline and one big part of this newsgroup is about putting the right evidence over in the right way...I was pointing out a flaw. > microscope. My point is that there is no need to launch into a tirade > about microscope types, you know? 1) It wasnt a tirade, 2) I dislike simply dropping answers in from nowhere, particularly where Im contradicting someone and so I have a tendency to back up what Im saying with an explanation. It helps discussion a lot more compared to simply saying 'Thats wrong' and shutting up. >> So no I wasnt waving off into alternate reality, it was there for a >> reason. You just seem to have missed it. > > I didn't miss it. My only point was that I think you totally blew past > the point and missed what the girl was trying to express, So the entire context about where saying the two viruses were the same was useful and where it was not was blowing past the post??? >> Oh really....the fairly large number of people Ive met while working >> on a vaccine development program who do must be figments of my [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > many people are coming to a herpes support group to hear the latest on > equine herpes? Very few, but since that wasnt what I was doing and the EHV was raised as a contrast to make a point - your criticism falls more than a little flat - currently you are raising strawmen here. Tim -- When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart ICQ: 5178568 Hi Tim ~ I just wanted you to know that I find all of your responses to this newsgroup to be of the utmost help. I have also really learned a lot from reading your posts over the years and am grateful that you make time to contribute. Thanks, Angela Signature"By opening up to a partner and talking about an STD diagnosis you are showing that you respect and care about yourself as well as the other person." Herpes Help http://yoshi2me.com/index.html Shut Up & Post! http://yoshi2me.com/phpbb/index.php Herpes Blog http://herpes-help.blogspot.com/ >> hey there. Haven't posted to the group in a while but I have a new guy >> in my life so I'm also looking for info. [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart > ICQ: 5178568 > my genital herpes could ...."mutate" into hsv-1 on her and then down > the road I could get Hsv-1 from her. (which technically would be > from myself) and if thats the case ....If I touch myself today ( as I > am outbroken) and rub my mouth , could that cause it to turn into > Hsv-1? Nope. You could potentially transfer whatever you have in terms of virus from place to place but it does not suddenly change. > Is my thought process understandable? Feel stupid asking but damn this > sounds like it could really get out of hand. Yes, its understandable. The way to hop from what you wrote to whats going on is to separate two things - a disease/symptom set and the agent that causes those symptoms. Disease agent is HSV1, HSV2 - these differ by a certain percentage of their DNA Disease is genital herpes or facial herpes - these differ by a certain percentage of your body length ;) Tim -- When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart ICQ: 5178568 |
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