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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / July 2006I need a answer I cant find anywhere else
I have hsv-2 my new partner who hasnt decided yet if he wants to engage with me yet has no virus at all. My question is: if we have oral sex can I infect him? I do not have hsv-1. If I am in a outbreak I would not even think of sex until it is safe. The past 6 years my outbreaks have been less severe and only red itchy bumps on my buttocks. This is my 27th year of having hsv-2. Then could I safely receive oral sex? I'm thinking thats a stretch but need to know. Hello, Well it is certainly possible to give someone hsv-2 on the mouth or facial area, but it is less likely than it would be genitally. Hsv-2 prefers the genital region, but there are cases of it on the facial area in people also. You can still shed the virus even though you have had it a long time. Unfortunatly there is no way of knowing when you are shedding it outside of an outbreak. If your partner has hsv-1, it is possible that it may provide some protection from he contracting hsv-2 but thats not definite. With herpes nothing is really certain. I've had herpes 11 years or so, and I am only aware of giving it to one person, which really disturbs me, but it is reality. Taking an antiviral such as Valtrex could reduce the shedding rate so you can protect your partner. I've taken Valtrex initially when I was really having bad outbreaks, but have decided not to bother with it now, because my outbreaks are much more mild and short. Al > I have hsv-2 my new partner who hasnt decided yet if he wants to engage > with me yet has no virus at all. My question is: if we have oral sex can [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > on my buttocks. This is my 27th year of having hsv-2. Then could I safely > receive oral sex? I'm thinking thats a stretch but need to know. Find out if your partner already has hsv-1. If he already is infected orally with hsv-1, it is extremely difficult to give him oral hsv-2 on top of that because hsv-2 doesn't like the oral area, his oral hsv-1 would provide him with pretty darn good protection against oral hsv-2, and it's difficult to infect one particular site with more than one virus. ~Eric > I have hsv-2 my new partner who hasnt decided yet if he wants to engage > with me yet has no virus at all. My question is: if we have oral sex can [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > on my buttocks. This is my 27th year of having hsv-2. Then could I safely > receive oral sex? I'm thinking thats a stretch but need to know. hey thanks for your comments but this man does not have the hsv-1 or 2, that is why he is questioning his risks. He doesnt have any STD at all. I have only hsv-2, so are you saying I can give but cannot receive? ALH Has he had a herpes test to show he doesn't have herpes? He could very well be one of the many who never show symptoms but still have it. In which case, all this pondering would be pointless. You have genital type 2. It is rare to see type 2 in the oral region. If he is healthy and has no immune problems nor any type of cuts around his mouth, there is little likelihood he can get type 2 from you through oral sex. HOWEVER, no one here is going to tell you it is absolutely 100% safe. It is up to him to decide how much of a risk he wants to take. ar > hey thanks for your comments but this man does not have the hsv-1 or 2, > that is why he is questioning his risks. He doesnt have any STD at all. I > have only hsv-2, > so are you saying I can give but cannot receive? > > ALH Grant, hmmmm you had to say the magic words. No he hasnt had a test, he is stressed out now and has been stressed for past year no outbreaks, I'd think after severe stress and no OB he isnt hsv. He is going through hell right now and his doc told him his immune system is low,insomnia, overworked etc. So it looks like then maybe I can give him a good time? He is willing to take a 1% chnace. ALH > So it looks like then maybe I can give him a good time? He is willing to > take a 1% chnace. > ALH Well I think its a little more than a 1% chance. The average asymtomatic shedding rate is about 4% of the time at least with HSV2. Its hard to say what the percentage would be of contracting herpes during that time. During an outbreak the chances of contracting herpes could be about 75%, but really what are numbers anyway? All it takes is one percent from one person on one occasion to get herpes. Al Ummm...actually, none of those things you mentioned below equal triggers for everyone. I have been stressed to the max and six and not had outbreaks. If he is someone who is asymptomatic, then none of those things below will cause him to have an outbreak. Bad logic, unfortunately. I will not tell you if you are safe to engage or not. We don't know all the facts. Without knowing his actual std status.... ar > Grant, > hmmmm you had to say the magic words. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > take a 1% chnace. > ALH ok ar, I see your point and all, lets just say this man doesnt have herpes, he knows this, he has been to the doctor no herpes ok but I'm not sure if he had a test or not but he swears he doesnt have it, so knowing this he is skeptical of wanting to take a chance with me. I know he has a low immume system so now I am concerned that because he is not in good standing, there is a better chance of him getting hsv-2 from me, correct? If he was in perfect health, happy, and getting his sleep and eating right I would feel better about having relations with him. hmm Maybe I'm confused ... I dont have hsv-1 so I'm just going with the flow on what he wants to do on that day. It's all so mind boggling. I fear rejection. I have chatted with this man for 4 years we have never met. I just told him 4 weeks ago that I have hsv-2, because we are finally meeting. ALH It's really up to him as to how much of a risk he wants to take. If you were on Valtrex, then the chance of you passing it on to him would be less. His chances of getting it from you through oral sex is still small, but it is really his choice as to what he wants to do. ar > ok ar, > I see your point and all, lets just say this man doesnt have herpes, he [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > hsv-2, because we are finally meeting. > ALH > It's all so mind boggling. I fear rejection. I have chatted with this man > for 4 years we have never met. I just told him 4 weeks ago that I have > hsv-2, because we are finally meeting. > ALH Also, you really don't have to worry that much about rejection. I thought I was doomed and my sex life would be over, but most people I talk to or meet are willing to take the chance. The thing is to be honest and upfront and don't make it out to be a big deal, just tell the person that you have it as if it is casual conversation. Its also best if you present yourself in a way where you appear attractive and upbeat when talking about this, so it appears that it isnt that bad, which it really isnt in most cases. The person I am dating now has oral herpes only, but she was willing to take the chance with me, even though I have it genital herpes and have hpv on top of it. It was like a no brainer for her, she just said "no problem" when I told. Al Al, I don't know if I agree with you here. If you are too upfront about it you are opening yourself up to be scorned and hurt. I like your casual conversation idea, but I don't see that happening when somebody can be so hurtful and then continue to be hurtful by telling other people. Does she have the same herpes type as you? If so, then I could see her easy acceptance of you. It's never a "no-brainer"..this doesn't happen unless she has the virus herself. Women simply are not accepting of men who have this, who aren't smart, good looking, have loads of money, are self-confident, and down the list. Women are much, much more selective of guys than guys are of women. It's a sad fact. ~Eric > Also, you really don't have to worry that much about rejection. I > thought I was doomed and my sex life would be over, but most people I [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Al Hi Eric, Not to rain on your parade, but Al has had quite a few relationships since being diagnosed. I think he probably knows more about telling women than you do. My suggestion to you is to actually listen to Al and try to keep an open mind. The only person dooming you is you. Your generalization of women is hurtful and incorrect. And why shouldn't women want the best for themselves? Do you have any idea of how many male scum are out there praying on women, murdering them, raping them, stealing from them...don't hold it against us for needing to be selective. A man goes out on a date with a woman and his worst nightmare is she won't give him sex. A woman goes out on a date with a man and her worst nightmare is they find her dead body in a dumpster. Or, she is raped and beaten. ar > Al, > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> >> Al I'm sure he has and I'm happy for him! I don't think he knows anything more about telling women than me, but he is older and has been suffering longer so I will concede that point. I am all for having an open mind. I would love to just casually tell someone, but I'm looking at the reality of rejection and being further hurt by rumors. Maybe those things don't bother you guys as much as they do me. Why is my description of women hurtful? It's certainly not meant to be. I mean really, in a society where we have "The Bachelor" and women are fighting over some guy for his money, I'm just saying the truth as I see it. Do you have any idea of how many female scum are out there praying on men? We get beat up and murdered too you know. Look at how many women deliberately marry guys just for their money so they can then divorice them and get half of it and break the guys heart..look at Paul McCartney. It's hurtful for you to say that a man's worst nightmare on a date is no sex. I have yet to have sex. So no, you don't need to be selective to the point where guys with little money or less than perfect looks have no chance whatsoever. A guy's worst nightmare is not making enough money or for whatever other reason he can do nothing about not being able to attract and keep a wife. ~Eric > Not to rain on your parade, but Al has had quite a few relationships since > being diagnosed. I think he probably knows more about telling women than [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > him sex. A woman goes out on a date with a man and her worst nightmare is > they find her dead body in a dumpster. Or, she is raped and beaten. I have yet to have sex. So no, you don't > need to be selective to the point where guys with little money or less > than perfect looks have no chance whatsoever. Eric, I know this is probably going to sound dumb, but how did you get herpes if you didnt have sex? You mean you havent had it since you got herpes right? > Eric, I know this is probably going to sound dumb, but how did you get > herpes if you didnt have sex? You mean you havent had it since you got > herpes right? I'm a virgin. I mean what I said. ~Eric Hi Eric, > > I don't know if I agree with you here. If you are too upfront about > > it you are opening yourself up to be scorned and hurt. I like your > > casual conversation idea, but I don't see that happening when somebody > > can be so hurtful and then continue to be hurtful by telling other > > people. I have had quite a few relationships after being diagnosed, maybe 4-5 anyway. Not all of the people I talked to were willing to take the chance. Some I accidently told too soon and their reply was "Herpes...eewww!, you have that?". Some told me right out they wouldnt want to get it and the answer was no, but I picked myself up and kept on going knowing that 65 million other people are going through the same thing. I decided later to wait until I got to know the person a while whether online through chat and emails or in person. Then I told them that I have something important to talk about, and that it was about being intimate or sex, so naturally you have their undivided attention at that point. I told them right out "I have genital herpes" Some people had their mouth open at this point or there was silence, but usually most people arent going to walk away if you say it in a professional, matter of fact, upbeat tone and are ready for any questions they have. You might want to talk about something prior that you did to help a family member or your mother, that way they know that people with herpes can be caring, loving and deserving of love. Some people think that a person with herpes is sinful and sex oriented only, so you have to set the right mood for them. Does she have the same herpes type as you? If so, then I could > > see her easy acceptance of you. It's never a "no-brainer"..this doesn't > > happen unless she has the virus herself. No, she only has hsv-1 oral as far as I know, unless she has genital type 2 also and didnt tell me knowing that I already have it, but I guess that possible. Women simply are not accepting > > of men who have this, who aren't smart, good looking, have loads of > > money, are self-confident, and down the list. I consider myself to be reasonably attractive, but I'm not a knockout thats for sure, and I am not rich, and I guess I some what intelligent although not overly self confident, actually kind of on the shy and nervous side actually. Al > I have had quite a few relationships after being diagnosed, maybe 4-5 > anyway. Not all of the people I talked to were willing to take the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > on going knowing that 65 million other people are going through the > same thing. Al, I'm happy for you. But you need to say much more often that people said "Herpes..eeww" and that some said that they wouldn't want to get it. This is reality! People are not always accepting. I don't think 65 million people are going though the same thing. Up to 90% of people with genital herpes don't even know they have it and the remainder makes up people who know but don't care, don't wanna know, or know and tell like you. > I decided later to wait until I got to know the person a while whether > online through chat and emails or in person. Then I told them that I [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > that a person with herpes is sinful and sex oriented only, so you have > to set the right mood for them. Again, people need to say that there will be people out there who will just stare with their mouth open or will respond with awkward silence. I agree with you that the upbeat tone and making it seem like you are a good person are helpful, but most people do think that herpes is sinful and sex-oriented only. It's just another thing for women to add to their already too long, super-selective list of what they want in a guy. > No, she only has hsv-1 oral as far as I know, unless she has genital > type 2 also and didnt tell me knowing that I already have it, but I > guess that possible. Hmm..I see. > Women simply are not accepting > > > of men who have this, who aren't smart, good looking, have loads of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > although not overly self confident, actually kind of on the shy and > nervous side actually. Well that's interesting because women aren't usually interested in "reasonably" attractive guys and they sure as hell don't want guys that aren't rich! I think actually money is the make or break deciding factor. Bottom line here: Women are impossibly selective. What do you think as a guy? ~Eric > Well that's interesting because women aren't usually interested in > "reasonably" attractive guys and they sure as hell don't want guys that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > ~Eric Just letting you know, Eric, this will be the last time I read any of your posts. ar > Just letting you know, Eric, this will be the last time I read any of your > posts. Wow, I'm sorry Grant. Why not just take what I'm writing at face value? If it's something you disagree with, yell at me or don't even bother to respond. If it's something that you agree with or wish to opine on, by all means do it. I'm just saying things as I see them, that's all. Eric, I agree that women are more careful, but its because they are probably fearful about men more than men are of women. If I meet a woman and shes attractive and the date goes well and she takes me back to her place and wants to have sex, I probably wouldnt give it a second thought (but I'd still use safe sex). If a guy asked a woman to have sex on a first date, most likely she'd be a little more careful, but thats natural, its just that way. Sure there are women that want rich, body builders that look like a model, but those are trivial people. There are a lot nice women out there, looking for a nice average guy too. I am 40 years old, and I have probably had sex with about 36 different people in my life, not including oral sex, because thats probably more if you add the ones that were just that. I don't really think thats alot of people personally. I got herpes and hpv some after my 30th person I think. Al Al, > I agree that women are more careful, but its because they are probably > fearful about men more than men are of women. No, I understand the fear part, and that's not what I'm talking about. I mean women are much much more selective in choosing a man not just for sex, but for a relationship. > If I meet a woman and > shes attractive and the date goes well and she takes me back to her > place and wants to have sex, I probably wouldnt give it a second > thought (but I'd still use safe sex). Yeah but your decision to go back with the girl is a personal decision and doesn't represent all guys out there, certainly not me. > If a guy asked a woman to have > sex on a first date, most likely she'd be a little more careful, but > thats natural, its just that way. What's natural? The fact that she doesn't want to get pregnant or hurt? I understand that. What isn't natural is for women to have a huge list of requirements out of men like looks, money, ambition, self-confidence, money, stability, money, power, money, money, and more money LOL..money is what is truly attractive to women. Don't complete the list = no sex ever for me. > Sure there are women that want rich, body builders that look like a > model, but those are trivial people. There are a lot nice women out > there, looking for a nice average guy too. Those are trivial people? This is virtually every female living and breathing..LOL The trivial minority are those that are ok with the average guy and these are the women with like 3 kids with 3 different fathers and no job. To them, yes the average guy is acceptable. The average guy simply gets lost in the masses. > I am 40 years old, and I have probably had sex with about 36 different > people in my life Wow, I'm impressed! LOL. I have had sex a whopping zero times and somehow I still managed to get here. Even worse, I'll never get to have sex now. > not including oral sex, because thats probably more > if you add the ones that were just that. I don't really think thats > alot of people personally. I got herpes and hpv some after my 30th > person I think. I think you're being modest Al. I haven't seen those 36 girls, but you have got to be way above average in order to have sex with that many people. How did you meet all of those people? ~Eric Hi Eric, > No, I understand the fear part, and that's not what I'm talking about. > I mean women are much much more selective in choosing a man not just > for sex, but for a relationship. Well that may be possible, but its hard to say really if there is a larger percentage of selective women then men. On the bright side there are more women in the US population then men, and the North East Coast of the US has the largest percentage of women. What isn't natural is for women to have a huge list > of requirements out of men like looks, money, ambition, > self-confidence, money, stability, money, power, money, money, and more > money LOL.. There are a lot of women looking for guys with money, but I think its probably because you are going after the younger women who don't know any better. You might want to look at the women around 35+. By the time most women get to 35, they've already dealt with the rich muscle bound jerks that had mistresses on the side and now they are ready for a real man! > Those are trivial people? This is virtually every female living and > breathing..LOL The trivial minority are those that are ok with the > average guy and these are the women with like 3 kids with 3 different > fathers and no job. To them, yes the average guy is acceptable. The > average guy simply gets lost in the masses. I don't think thats really accurate. Maybe if you're going to a night club those are the women you'd find. Try going to a singles social club or a herpes support meeting or something. > I think you're being modest Al. I haven't seen those 36 girls, but you > have got to be way above average in order to have sex with that many > people. How did you meet all of those people? Well, to tell you the truth, during my teens I never dated. I was a very shy guy, and I wasnt attractive to women. I was a nerd that liked to play dungeons and dragons. Then during my 20's all hell broke loose, I made up for that and had alot of girlfriends, sometimes 3 at a time. By the end of my 20's fate caught up with me and I got herpes and hpv...serves me right I guess! In my 30's I slowed down alot, only had a few serious ones that were in the intimate category. Al > I was a nerd that liked to play dungeons and dragons. You say this like its a bad thing :) Noone at my rugby club takes the mickey for me playing RPGs (well no more than they take the mickey out of anyone for anything and I think they are usually more concerned about piss-taking on my throwing in at the lineout, thats an easier mark anyway ;) Tim -- When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart ICQ: 5178568 >Noone at my rugby club takes the mickey for me playing RPGs (well no more >than they take the mickey out of anyone for anything and I think they are >usually more concerned about piss-taking on my throwing in at the >lineout, thats an easier mark anyway ;) I thought I was up on my British English when I learned the definitions of "electric torch" (flashlight), "spanner" (wrench), boot and bonnett" (trunk and hood) but I can see now I have a ways to go. M2 >> Noone at my rugby club takes the mickey for me playing RPGs (well no more >> than they take the mickey out of anyone for anything and I think they are [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > definitions of "electric torch" (flashlight), "spanner" (wrench), boot > and bonnett" (trunk and hood) but I can see now I have a ways to go. Several references there were rugby or gaming related NOT English specific... Tim -- When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart ICQ: 5178568 >Several references there were rugby or gaming related Thanks but, I know less about Rugby (and/or gaming) than I know about English. My wild guess would be...."takes the mickey for me playing RPGs"... would mean, makes fun of me for playing a computer game?? Seriously, I have no clue. .... and, "piss-taking on my throwing in" would have to do with giving you a hard time due to an errant throw? ..... just trying to broaden my horizons here with a little cultural exchange. M2 >> Several references there were rugby or gaming related > > Thanks but, I know less about Rugby (and/or gaming) than I know about > English. My wild guess would be...."takes the mickey for me playing > RPGs"... would mean, makes fun of me for playing a computer game?? Make fun, yes you got that bit right. RPGs are the genre of games including the dungeons and dragons Al mentioned, not computer games (despite the large number of computer games describing themselves as being in that genre - but thats a another rant). Well, that or a rocket propelled grenade but I don't play with them :) > .... and, "piss-taking on my throwing in" would have to do with giving > you a hard time due to an errant throw? Thats a rugby one....restarting from the ball going into touch (out of bounds) requires a set play type, the lineout, and one person's job is to throw the ball into that set play - and thats my job on the team fairly often....lets just say its not my strong point in the game. > ..... just trying to broaden my horizons here with a little cultural > exchange. We had to do that for one of the guys in my gaming group who is USAF over here in the UK. If I may steal liberally from a post of mine to another group I made this comment on the sort of cultural exchange we have had, in a somewhat flippant manner - who would have guessed that from me :) We are slowly educating the US guy in our group on the correct spelling of such words as colour, good reasons not to snigger at the hooker on a rugby pitch, why he cannot get directions to Wymondham when he asks for the place and the correct pronunciation of Aluminium. He is trading by explaining patiently why so many people look offended when we light a fag, how not to embarass yerself by telling the neighbour yes you give your children rubbers to keep in their school pencil cases, why the sidewalk is damn well where it says it and its purpose IS self explanatory, the right tackle takes as much offense at giggles as the hooker and the benefits of .44 ammunition when yet ANOTHER sodding double glazing salesman rings the bell. :) Never have two nations been so divided by a common language.... Tim -- When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart ICQ: 5178568 >Al, >> I am 40 years old, and I have probably had sex with about 36 different >> people in my life >Wow, I'm impressed! LOL. I have had sex a whopping zero times and >somehow I still managed to get here. Even worse, I'll never get to have >sex now. I'll betcha, as hard as you try not to, you'll still end up getting to have sex, or maybe, even, if you don't try so hard not to, to even makey de loooooooooove. Seriously, Mike > I'll betcha, as hard as you try not to, you'll still end up getting to > have sex, or maybe, even, if you don't try so hard not to, to even > makey de loooooooooove. Well I'm new here and I never talked to you before so nice to meet you :-) Sure I can always have sex..that's why there are prostitutes. But I don't feel like getting arrested anytime soon or getting anything worse than what I have..LOL If you think I'm trying not to have sex you're insane! Hsv-1 killed that from ever happening for once in my life. But more than anything else I'm really looking for a sustainable relationship with someone who will accept me for who I am. And this is what has gone out the window now. The fact that I have hsv-1 and I don't have loads of good looks, money, self-confidence, money, assertiveness, money, stability, money, money, money and more money I'm not doing too well at all...LOL ;-) ~Eric > If you think I'm trying not to have sex you're insane! Hsv-1 killed > that from ever happening for once in my life. But more than anything [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > money, self-confidence, money, assertiveness, money, stability, money, > money, money and more money I'm not doing too well at all...LOL ;-) Eric, I'm going to meet that woman tomorrow, the one that I said went to my high school, I think we're just going to hang out in Downtown Providence and talk. Tomorrow will be the first date, so at least 2 more before I have "the talk" so I'll keep you posted. I might have to eat my words, who knows. I might be rejected, but its something you have a responsibility to talk about whether you have herpes, hpv or both. So far herpes has taken away some of my possible sexual encounters, but sex isnt everything, its the person that counts. Al >> I'll betcha, as hard as you try not to, you'll still end up getting to >> have sex, or maybe, even, if you don't try so hard not to, to even >> makey de loooooooooove. >Well I'm new here and I never talked to you before so nice to meet you >:-) Sure I can always have sex..that's why there are prostitutes. But I >don't feel like getting arrested anytime soon or getting anything worse >than what I have..LOL >If you think I'm trying not to have sex you're insane! Hsv-1 killed >that from ever happening for once in my life. HSV doesn't kill anything, silly. And HSV certainly doesn't kill your sex life. Only YOU can do THAT. And if you are trying to convince yourself that a forever future dead and non-existant sex life is all that lies ahead of you because of little ol' HSV1, I'm returning the favor and calling YOU insane, and throwing in a little bit of stupid on the side. LOL. > But more than anything >else I'm really looking for a sustainable relationship with someone who >will accept me for who I am. Someone, perhaps, who will recognize, fathom, appreciate and hold abidingly close the deep, pure nature of one who expresses his most intimate desires in clichés? >And this is what has gone out the window >now. The fact that I have hsv-1 and I don't have loads of good looks, >money, self-confidence, money, assertiveness, money, stability, money, >money, money and more money I'm not doing too well at all...LOL ;-) On that list, HSV is the least of your problems, and the money thing a cheap second. But, of course, I'm speaking only from my own enlightened remove. If you want someone to accept you for who you are, why on earth would you be thinking of looking for women who want what you are not? There are loads of women out there who are more interested in compatability and honesty than in the things you list. And if you think "money" is the key, then you should face up to the fact that having HSV in no way affects your future earnings potential, and you should buckle down and start chasing that almighty love-buying dollar. Go on. Get to it. When you're rich, the chicks will really appreciate you for who you are. Mike Mike, > HSV doesn't kill anything, silly. And HSV certainly doesn't kill your > sex life. Only YOU can do THAT. And if you are trying to convince > yourself that a forever future dead and non-existant sex life is all > that lies ahead of you because of little ol' HSV1, I'm returning the > favor and calling YOU insane, and throwing in a little bit of stupid > on the side. LOL. HSV kills people, rarely, mostly infants. And yes, HSV kills all spontaneity in people sex lives and hinders people from forming what would otherwise be great relationships. This is due to the staggering ignorance about HSV. It's sad but true, my friend. If you expect a woman not to be stricken by the gravity of the problem when she hears "herpes" out of my mouth regardless of what type it is, I gotta return the insane and stupid to you. > > But more than anything > >else I'm really looking for a sustainable relationship with someone who [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > abidingly close the deep, pure nature of one who expresses his most > intimate desires in clichés? What cliches? That fact that I want someone to "accept me for who I am"? I don't care if this is cliche it is what I want. > On that list, HSV is the least of your problems, and the money thing a > cheap second. But, of course, I'm speaking only from my own [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > and you should buckle down and start chasing that almighty love-buying > dollar. No HSV is just another thing that women can add on to their already too long list of things which make men attractive to them. I'm not sure how enlightened your remove is on this..LOL. Talk about turning the question on its head: did I ever say I'm looking for women who want me for what I am not? I said women want things like being hsv-1-free and money and self-confidence and etc. You're very sadly mistaken. Compatibility itself is judged by women in terms of "attractiveness" of the male to themselves, which of course means no hsv-1, money, self-confidence, money, etc. Do you really think it is that easy or even possible to get the amount of money and lose this incurable virus as women require? > Go on. Get to it. When you're rich, the chicks will really > appreciate you for who you are. Ok, look at "The Bachelor". Look at Anna Nicole Smith. Look at the Paul McCartney situation. Look at the vast majority of other women out there who judge a man's attractiveness by his pocketbook. Sadly, the evidence is against your beliefs: if I had sufficient money, nothing else would matter to women. ~Eric > Mike, >> HSV doesn't kill anything, silly. And HSV certainly doesn't kill your >> sex life. Only YOU can do THAT. And if you are trying to convince >> yourself that a forever future dead and non-existant sex life is all >> that lies ahead of you because of little ol' HSV1, I'm returning the >> favor and calling YOU insane, and throwing in a little bit of stupid >> on the side. LOL. >HSV kills people, rarely, mostly infants. HSV isn't going to kill YOU, and with the teensiest modicum of care (like informing the doctor when the little woman is preggers) it won't kill anyone else in your household either. It's FAR more dangerous to get into an automobile with you than it is to climb into the sack with you. And besides, we were talking about HSV killing your "sex life". > And yes, HSV kills all >spontaneity in people sex lives and hinders people from forming what >would otherwise be great relationships. So you equate "spontaneity" with "sex life"??? You're a wild and crazy twenty-something year old virgin and the meaningful relationship you so crave is built on a foundation of sexual spontaneity??? Color me skeptical. It's difficult to believe that HSV killed a spontaneity that apparently was never there. Also, HSV is but one of many, many sexually transmittted diseases, and of all of them, HSV 1 is one of the more benign (despite the fact that it isn't curable.) The vast majority of people with HSV1 lead perfectly normal lives. In fact, most don't even know they have the thing, and never will, without any ill consequence. On the other hand, there's HIV, AIDS, gonorrhea, syphilis, chlamydia, HPV, and others (including pregnancy, har!), and if thinking about THEM doesn't kill sexual spontaneity then I don't see why worrying about HSV1 does. Some of the above are curable and some aren't, but most of them can infect you with few or no symptoms and do real harm to you or your partner. If HSV1 is the only STI that you encounter in your sexual life, especially your spontaneous sexual life, you'll be one very lucky Jose. I will give you a small amount of agreement that HSV can "hinder" the development of a sexual relationship, but hinder is a relative term, and not even close to the hyperbole of "killing" that you used initially. The fact still is, the only thing holding YOU back from a meaningful, sex-filled relationship, is YOU. > This is due to the staggering >ignorance about HSV. It's sad but true, my friend. If you expect a >woman not to be stricken by the gravity of the problem when she hears >"herpes" out of my mouth regardless of what type it is, I gotta return >the insane and stupid to you. My personal experiences run counter to what I would characterize as your unfounded fears. I have HSV1 and HSV2, and uninfected women whom I've told have not been "stricken" upon the news, but some have, instead, opened their arms to me, so to speak, while the others have been curious and sympathetic. Many others, none of whom I have had or intended to have sex with, upon hearing of my viral status (I tend not to be too shy about it), have confided in me that they, too, are part of the club. There ARE a lot of people in the club, you know. My opinion, backed up by my own experience, is that if YOU "tend not to be too shy" about your own status, you'll be pleasantly surprised by the reaction you get from others. I mean, if your sex life is dead anyway, then what's the harm of putting a few more nails in the coffin, right? >> > But more than anything >> >else I'm really looking for a sustainable relationship with someone who >> >will accept me for who I am. >> Someone, perhaps, who will recognize, fathom, appreciate and hold >> abidingly close the deep, pure nature of one who expresses his most >> intimate desires in clichés? >What cliches? That fact that I want someone to "accept me for who I >am"? I don't care if this is cliche it is what I want. >> On that list, HSV is the least of your problems, and the money thing a >> cheap second. But, of course, I'm speaking only from my own [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> and you should buckle down and start chasing that almighty love-buying >> dollar. >No HSV is just another thing that women can add on to their already too >long list of things which make men attractive to them. I'm not sure how [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >even possible to get the amount of money and lose this incurable virus >as women require? "Women" are not monolithic hegemons, but individuals, and should be approached as such. Don't assume they all want the same thing, and that it's "money". I think your young prejudice is just that, the prejudice of inexperienced youth. There are literally millions upon millions of women who want nothing more than to be sincerely appreciated for who THEY are, and will return the attention back to you many times over. They want exactly what you purport to want, and if and when they find it, will happily ignore or deal with or share the slight imposition of having HSV1 (or HSV2) in the relationship. >> Go on. Get to it. When you're rich, the chicks will really >> appreciate you for who you are. >Ok, look at "The Bachelor". Look at Anna Nicole Smith. Look at the Paul >McCartney situation. Look at the vast majority of other women out there >who judge a man's attractiveness by his pocketbook. Sadly, the evidence >is against your beliefs: if I had sufficient money, nothing else would >matter to women. Looking to celebrities is a poor way to conduct your own life. And still, as I said last night, having HSV in no way inhibits your ability to earn money. If all the good girls are going to the rich guys, and you are never going to be rich, then your life is never going to be much of anything anyway, but to blame it on HSV is ridiculous. On the other hand, if you get out there and work your silly butt off, you can earn yourself a pile of dough, and then you know you'll find love and all the fulfillment that money always gets ya, and we'll all be happy for you. Get to it, and take care, Mike Mike, > HSV isn't going to kill YOU, and with the teensiest modicum of care > (like informing the doctor when the little woman is preggers) it won't > kill anyone else in your household either. That assuming I ever get to have sex. > It's FAR more dangerous to get into an automobile with you than it is > to climb into the sack with you. It's FAR, FAR more dangerous to get in a car with me! LOL! > And besides, we were talking about HSV killing your "sex life". Yes, that is what it looks like is going to happen. > So you equate "spontaneity" with "sex life"??? You're a wild and > crazy twenty-something year old virgin and the meaningful relationship > you so crave is built on a foundation of sexual spontaneity??? Color > me skeptical. It's difficult to believe that HSV killed a spontaneity > that apparently was never there. How don't you equate spontaneity with sex life? Should foreplay be like an hour-long ordeal where the sheets get sterilized, I fully inspect myself for anything wrong, shower and wash the area beforehand, use male condoms, female condoms, and then have her immediately "decontaminate" herself afterwards? LOL. > Also, HSV is but one of many, many sexually transmittted diseases, and > of all of them, HSV 1 is one of the more benign (despite the fact that [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > life, especially your spontaneous sexual life, you'll be one very > lucky Jose. Uh oh, don't tell Angela that HSV-1 is anymore benign than the rest. She'll blow a gasket..LOL. The people with HSV-1 who lead normal lives are either the ones who don't know about it or the one's who know but don't care. I know I sound cynical, but I think ignorance is bliss with HSV-1 and that's why docs are even hesitant to test for it. I think I would be a lot luckier if I didn't know about it or I didn't care about it. > I will give you a small amount of agreement that HSV can "hinder" the > development of a sexual relationship, but hinder is a relative term, > and not even close to the hyperbole of "killing" that you used > initially. The fact still is, the only thing holding YOU back from a > meaningful, sex-filled relationship, is YOU. Well hyperbole and humor are tough to express on here. No, my appearance, lack of money, and hsv-1 are holding me back. > My personal experiences run counter to what I would characterize as > your unfounded fears. I have HSV1 and HSV2, and uninfected women whom [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to be too shy about it), have confided in me that they, too, are part > of the club. There ARE a lot of people in the club, you know. Yep they immediately opened their arms from their embrace of you once you told them..LOL. Curious? Great..LOL. Most of the people in the "club" don't know about their hsv or don't care about it I think. > My opinion, backed up by my own experience, is that if YOU "tend not > to be too shy" about your own status, you'll be pleasantly surprised > by the reaction you get from others. Sure. 0.5% of the time I'll be presently surprised, 99.5% of the time I'll be unpleasantly suprised.. :-) Plus after I while I won't even have to tell people anymore, the rumors will take care of that..LOL. > I mean, if your sex life is dead anyway, then what's the harm of > putting a few more nails in the coffin, right? Nails are expensive ;-) > "Women" are not monolithic hegemons, but individuals, and should be > approached as such. Don't assume they all want the same thing, and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > if and when they find it, will happily ignore or deal with or share > the slight imposition of having HSV1 (or HSV2) in the relationship. No they are monolithically sanctimonious rather than hegemonious..LOL. There are literally millions and millions of women who want nothing more than to marry a rich guy so they can have the "easy life" and then divorice and make out like bandits should the marriage go awry. Green is attractive to every women I've ever come across. They purport to want exactly what I want, but I think this is just bullshit really. It's just the way things are..women tend to be much more selective in choosing a guy than women in choosing a girl. > Looking to celebrities is a poor way to conduct your own life. Merely just examples I offered, that's all. > And still, as I said last night, having HSV in no way inhibits your > ability to earn money. If all the good girls are going to the rich [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > know you'll find love and all the fulfillment that money always gets > ya, and we'll all be happy for you. Well you're right on the fact that I don't know if I'm ever going to make enough money to attract a woman, but I would never say that my life isn't going to be much of anything! I can still enjoy my work and have friends and travel and do everything else I enjoy, women are just out of the picture. And that can be chalked up to their unwillingness to accept guys who deviate from the "list". ~Eric >Mike, >> HSV isn't going to kill YOU, and with the teensiest modicum of care >> (like informing the doctor when the little woman is preggers) it won't >> kill anyone else in your household either. >That assuming I ever get to have sex. I know of nothing about you, except your relentless pessimism, to rule out your having a rich, satisfying sex life. >> It's FAR more dangerous to get into an automobile with you than it is >> to climb into the sack with you. >It's FAR, FAR more dangerous to get in a car with me! LOL! And, yet, no doubt, people are willing to do it. >> And besides, we were talking about HSV killing your "sex life". >Yes, that is what it looks like is going to happen. No, it will be your attitude about HSV that kills your sex life. Since there are scores of millions of potential partners out there, some with exactly what you have (rendering all worries essentially moot), and many others who really won't care about your HSV as long as other important aspects of the relationship are in evidence (trust, respect, deep compatibility, etc.) it makes no sense to pretend that you are suddenly alone and essentially cut off from human kind. >> So you equate "spontaneity" with "sex life"??? You're a wild and >> crazy twenty-something year old virgin and the meaningful relationship >> you so crave is built on a foundation of sexual spontaneity??? Color >> me skeptical. It's difficult to believe that HSV killed a spontaneity >> that apparently was never there. >How don't you equate spontaneity with sex life? Should foreplay be like >an hour-long ordeal where the sheets get sterilized, I fully inspect >myself for anything wrong, shower and wash the area beforehand, use >male condoms, female condoms, and then have her immediately >"decontaminate" herself afterwards? LOL. The virus doesn't live on sheets, so let's discard that sort of cheap hyperbole out of hand. If you have to make stuff up to make the situation seem as bad as possible then it really must not be that bad. If you want to pretend you're a leper, and go around acting like a leper, it just might come to pass that people will treat you as a leper, though some might just laugh at you. Personally, I'm starting to think it's people like you who are responsible for the very stigma you claim is going to ruin your life. The impression my girlfriend and I get from reading your posts is that you have some amount of intelligence, but that it is so outweighed by your relentless proclivity for the negative, sour, hyperbolic, stigmatized side of having HSV that we are forced to wonder whether our assessment of your ability to write is wrong, or whether you're just a prodigiously prolific troll. In any event, if you are of the opinion that practicing a little rudimentary personal hygiene is too much of a bother for the sake of entering into a sexual relationship, then perhaps you aren't really interested in entering into a sexual relationship. On the other hand, if you ARE interested in entering into sexual relationships, perhaps you could foster an adult attitude that incorporates a realistic approach to managing the risk, or in choosing partners for whom the risk is a non-issue. Or you can wallow in the stigma, and know that you yourself are choosing to perpetuate it, to your own detriment. >> Also, HSV is but one of many, many sexually transmittted diseases, and >> of all of them, HSV 1 is one of the more benign (despite the fact that [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> life, especially your spontaneous sexual life, you'll be one very >> lucky Jose. >Uh oh, don't tell Angela that HSV-1 is anymore benign than the rest. >She'll blow a gasket..LOL. The people with HSV-1 who lead normal lives [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >would be a lot luckier if I didn't know about it or I didn't care about >it. We'd all be "luckier" without the HSV, but dwelling on the vicissitudes of our earthly lots and $3.95 will get you a damn good, large latte of some kind at the airport. >> I will give you a small amount of agreement that HSV can "hinder" the >> development of a sexual relationship, but hinder is a relative term, >> and not even close to the hyperbole of "killing" that you used >> initially. The fact still is, the only thing holding YOU back from a >> meaningful, sex-filled relationship, is YOU. >Well hyperbole and humor are tough to express on here. No, my >appearance, lack of money, and hsv-1 are holding me back. How ugly ARE you? I daresay I've seen some pretty ugly guys with nice girlfriends on their arms. And if you're as seriously intent on not pursuing relationships as you claim to be, you might as well get out there and start digging for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, (and when you've got it you'll only have two things to complain are holding you back). And maybe somewhere along the way you'll come to the realization that HSV is not nearly the bother or hindrance you were so damn fired up to make it. You wouldn't be the first who ripped through the cycle like that, nor will you be the last. >> My personal experiences run counter to what I would characterize as >> your unfounded fears. I have HSV1 and HSV2, and uninfected women whom [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> to be too shy about it), have confided in me that they, too, are part >> of the club. There ARE a lot of people in the club, you know. >Yep they immediately opened their arms from their embrace of you once >you told them..LOL. You can pretend to disbelieve me, but I'm sure you know the true intent of the statement I made. >Curious? Great..LOL. Most of the people in the >"club" don't know about their hsv or don't care about it I think. No one disputes that there is a great deal of ignorance on the subject, but that doesn't mean that we who know the facts have to take a role in perpetuating the ignorance. From a medical, social, or personal point of view, there is nothing about HSV to be ashamed of. Even people who have never had sex can have it. But there IS a growing awareness of STIs in general, and a slowly growing awareness of HSV, along with it. People see the TV commercials. They get hints that "cold sores" is herpes. But, as with much of sexual life, it's one of the things that just doesn't often come up in casual conversation. What I've found, is that when it does come up, people are glad to have the ice broken, and often want to know more. >> My opinion, backed up by my own experience, is that if YOU "tend not >> to be too shy" about your own status, you'll be pleasantly surprised >> by the reaction you get from others. >Sure. 0.5% of the time I'll be presently surprised, 99.5% of the time >I'll be unpleasantly suprised.. :-) Plus after I while I won't even >have to tell people anymore, the rumors will take care of that..LOL. Well, already your negativity is trending 0.05% to the positive, so we're making progress. But maybe if you were to quit trying to convince yourself of the worst, and instead focussed on figuring out what you want from life and pointing yourself in that direction, you'd find what nonsense your 99.5% crap is. >> I mean, if your sex life is dead anyway, then what's the harm of >> putting a few more nails in the coffin, right? >Nails are expensive ;-) Nails are cheap, and so are your excuses. >> "Women" are not monolithic hegemons, but individuals, and should be >> approached as such. Don't assume they all want the same thing, and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> if and when they find it, will happily ignore or deal with or share >> the slight imposition of having HSV1 (or HSV2) in the relationship. >No they are monolithically sanctimonious rather than hegemonious..LOL. >There are literally millions and millions of women who want nothing [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >It's just the way things are..women tend to be much more selective in >choosing a guy than women in choosing a girl. I suppose it might be reassuring to all who happen to read the group that you are as unfairly prejudicial in other areas as you are with respect to having HSV. >> Looking to celebrities is a poor way to conduct your own life. >Merely just examples I offered, that's all. >> And still, as I said last night, having HSV in no way inhibits your >> ability to earn money. If all the good girls are going to the rich [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> know you'll find love and all the fulfillment that money always gets >> ya, and we'll all be happy for you. >Well you're right on the fact that I don't know if I'm ever going to >make enough money to attract a woman, but I would never say that my >life isn't going to be much of anything! I can still enjoy my work and >have friends and travel and do everything else I enjoy, women are just >out of the picture. And that can be chalked up to their unwillingness >to accept guys who deviate from the "list". Yeah. Right. Have fun. Mike Eric, As one of your closest friends (I'm going out on a limb with that one...lol), PLEASE.....and I am begging you....PLEASE stop with the money talk! No matter how many times I've told you and no matter how many times others have told you...money isn't the main thing (or even the top 5 in my opinion) that women look for in a man. Perhaps I'll do a survey on my own (since you are a statistics kind of guy) and send you the results. I bet you'd be surprised. Also, could you just trust the fact that people that have been replying to your posts on this are perhaps a little bit older and, therefore, more experienced in dating/relationships? Could we just agree on that? I don't think people like Mike, Al and Grant (to name a few) are pulling this information out of thin air. I think they are speaking from experience. One thing I have always prided myself on is learning for "others" mistakes. I felt no need to have to make the same ones myself when I've already seen the outcome. I'm not saying, however, that everyone's situations are the same...but I'm talking about generalities. Let's also drop the Anna Nicole's and The Bachelor scenarios....that's sh.t that's better left on television. And, personally, I have no idea why Heather Mills married Paul McCartney....she seems like she was a fairly independent woman before she met him...and perhaps she loved him for him..not his fortune. But, hey, if you want a woman like Anna Nicole...then you better win the damn lottery. If I were a guy, I couldn't run fast enough to get away from types like that! As far as woman "being struck by the gravity" of HSV-1...you don't know that first-hand. You haven't told yet. After you've told about 10 women, get back to me on their responses. But you'd better make sure that you "tell" in not a negative way. YOU can definitely affect the receipt of the information by the way you present it. I KNOW you....unlike the others here! And the guy I know, when he drops the bullshit about money and not being "Brad Pitt" is funny, charming, kind, smart....all that. And those are damned attractive qualities! But if you keep dredging up this sh.t about money...I'm flying to your home and gonna give your a.s a MAJOR spanking! Let it go! Please! I love you! Michelle > Mike, > [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > ~Eric I KNOW you....unlike the others here! And the guy I know, when he drops the bullshit about money and not being "Brad Pitt" is funny, charming, kind, smart....all that. And those are damned attractive qualities! But if you keep dredging up this sh.t about money...I'm flying to your home and gonna give your a.s a MAJOR spanking! Let it go! Please! I love you! Michelle *************************** Hi Michelle, I'm so happy to see you here! And saying this to Eric. I agree. I have seen these qualities in Eric but he's really hurt my feelings with his negative generalities about women. How often should I have to be insulted?? Please, go spank his a.s from me, regardless of what he says. :) ar Eric, As one of your closest friends (I'm going out on a limb with that one...lol), PLEASE.....and I am begging you....PLEASE stop with the money talk! No matter how many times I've told you and no matter how many times others have told you...money isn't the main thing (or even the top 5 in my opinion) that women look for in a man. Perhaps I'll do a survey on my own (since you are a statistics kind of guy) and send you the results. I bet you'd be surprised. Also, could you just trust the fact that people that have been replying to your posts on this are perhaps a little bit older and, therefore, more experienced in dating/relationships? Could we just agree on that? I don't think people like Mike, Al and Grant (to name a few) are pulling this information out of thin air. I think they are speaking from experience. One thing I have always prided myself on is learning for "others" mistakes. I felt no need to have to make the same ones myself when I've already seen the outcome. I'm not saying, however, that everyone's situations are the same...but I'm talking about generalities. Let's also drop the Anna Nicole's and The Bachelor scenarios....that's sh.t that's better left on television. And, personally, I have no idea why Heather Mills married Paul McCartney....she seems like she was a fairly independent woman before she met him...and perhaps she loved him for him..not his fortune. But, hey, if you want a woman like Anna Nicole...then you better win the damn lottery. If I were a guy, I couldn't run fast enough to get away from types like that! As far as woman "being struck by the gravity" of HSV-1...you don't know that first-hand. You haven't told yet. After you've told about 10 women, get back to me on their responses. But you'd better make sure that you "tell" in not a negative way. YOU can definitely affect the receipt of the information by the way you present it. I KNOW you....unlike the others here! And the guy I know, when he drops the bullshit about money and not being "Brad Pitt" is funny, charming, kind, smart....all that. And those are damned attractive qualities! But if you keep dredging up this sh.t about money...I'm flying to your home and gonna give your a.s a MAJOR spanking! Let it go! Please! I love you! Michelle > Mike, > [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > ~Eric I'm just in a pretty deep hole in my life now. I'm trying to dig out but everything seems hopeless. My hsv-1, changing appearance, family life, and uncertainty careerwise have just made me really depressed. I honestly don't know what to do. I know money isn't the cure-all, but it just seems like my life is falling apart faster than I can piece it back together. I haven't talked to my own brother in like a week or two since he found out I had hsv-1 and freaked out that I would give it to him by sharing glasses or whatever and I broke down and told him where I think it might be. I'm doing my best guys. I really am. I need to make a doctors appointment and explain everything to him so I can maybe get treated for depression but I've been hesitant and haven't done it yet. Everyone here is helping me and making a difference in my life. As much as I argue, you guys mean so much to me. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I can't begin to thank you all enough. Michelle, you are a good friend and I love you too! ~Eric > Eric, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > a survey on my own (since you are a statistics kind of guy) and send > you the results. I bet you'd be surprised. > Also, could you just trust the fact that people that have been replying > to your posts on this are perhaps a little bit older and, therefore, [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > > > > ~Eric |
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