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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Herpes / May 2006

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Help - Need support and advice

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LosingSleep - 11 Apr 2006 22:52 GMT
I have been reading postings on this newsgroup over the last couple of
weeks and have decided that I need to post to get some support and
maybe some answers.

A month or two ago (best I can remember but not sure) I noticed a
couple spots on my left testicle that looked like a bug bite.  It went
away w/out me noticing it.   Around that time, but not sure exactly
when, vaugly remember wierd tingling and strange sensation on that side
that made me want to scratch or move the skin on my testicle.

About three weeks ago after a very stressfull couple of weeks, I awoke
to a sore groin that I wrote off to being a pull or a hernia from
vigerous exercise, two problems I have had before.  After about 3 days
my groin was fine, but 3 or 4 days after that got better I noticed two
spots on my left testicle, best I can tell, in nearly the exact same
place as before.  Later that day they were definitely sores, not real
big, maybe 2 or 3 mm, but a bit bigger than what I remembered them from
before.

I did some searching and after finding the many posts in this fine
newsgroup, I realized I probably had contracted genital herpes from an
oral sexual encounter with a stranger maybe 4 or 5 months prior where
there was oral contact only with my testicles.  After some serious
freaking out, I was able to get tested at a local university that was
starting a genital herpes research study.  The doctor examined me and
did cultures and blood.  At the same time of course I'm really losing
sleep over the possibility that this could be something even worse like
HIV, but the doctor says that HIV doesn't really manifest itself as
re-occurant sores like that and it's classic herpes symptoms.

Fast forward one week later, no sleep, near breakdown worrying that I
might have autoinoculated myself or transferred it to my 9 year old
daughter some how or still worse that I have HIV and I get the results
back and I'm negative in the blood test for both HSVI and HSV2 and both
cultures came back negative.  The doctor says that I probably didn't
have antibodies yet since it might have been the first outbreak and
that I was crusting when he did the swabs so he wasn't suprised.

I brought up the dreaded HIV and he calmed me by saying that HIV
doesn't manifest itself as re-occuring sores like that on the skin
unless it's a late stage.  He said to come back in a month and we can
redo the blood test because he really believes it is herpes.  He's a
research scientist for infectious disease so I'm inclined to believe
him but I got an HIV test done anyway.  The guy at the testing clinic
said the odds were pretty small I got HIV from my encounter, but I am
still am so worried and stressed over some things that don't make sense
and it's another week before I get my HIV test back.  I'd be ok at this
point with genital herpes, I'd just like to know.

I'm hoping someone might be able to help with this...

1.  That absolute most recent I could have contracted herpes sexually
was at least 18 weeks prior to the date the blood test was done.  I'm
not even positive about that I've been so busy all the days have run
together.  I keep reading 12-16 weeks as the measure of ensuring an
accurate reading.  Has anyone tested negative to the test (I'm pretty
sure it's the better of the blood tests since he said it tells which)
after this time period and later tested positive?  Anyone have any
experience where the 16 week limit was longer?

2.  Do your antibodies start building from the day you were infected or
from your first outbreak?  Is it possible that it's genital HSVI and
the antibodies would take longer to develop since the virus doesn't do
as well genitally?

3.  I never saw any blisters that I read about, these were more like
little brown spots that got a little bigger.  Never really hurt unless
you touched them.

4.  Has anyone had similar symptoms and it turned out to be something
else?

I realize this was a long post, but I'm so mentally exhausted after two
weeks that I'm hoping that sharing this I might be able to get some
answers or support or both.

Thanks in advance.
grant - 12 Apr 2006 00:04 GMT
Hi Losing Sleep. Sorry you are so stressed.  I'm glad you got the HIV test.
I doubt you would have gotten it from your last encounter.  However, you
could have gotten it at any other time.  It's always good to know what is
what with your body.

Your questions:

> 1.  That absolute most recent I could have contracted herpes sexually
> was at least 18 weeks prior to the date the blood test was done.  I'm
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> after this time period and later tested positive?  Anyone have any
> experience where the 16 week limit was longer?

Those are excellent questions and I simply don't have an answer for you.  I
think your doctor was correct, though.  You should retest in a few more
weeks to be sure.  It is common to test negative to the culture--just as
your doctor said.  He seems to know what he is talking about.

> 2.  Do your antibodies start building from the day you were infected or
> from your first outbreak?  Is it possible that it's genital HSVI and
> the antibodies would take longer to develop since the virus doesn't do
> as well genitally?

Perhaps one of the more scientifically minded persons here can answer the
antibody question.  And my personal belief is there would be no difference
in antibody development based on type 1 or 2.

> 3.  I never saw any blisters that I read about, these were more like
> little brown spots that got a little bigger.  Never really hurt unless
> you touched them.

Herpes looks different in different people.  Many people get the sores, or a
blister, or a rash, or nothing.  It all depends on you and your body.

> 4.  Has anyone had similar symptoms and it turned out to be something
> else?

Yes.  I think there was a gentleman here who went through all of this.  I
can't remember what it was he had, exactly...but I think it was a fungus??
I can't remember.

> I realize this was a long post, but I'm so mentally exhausted after two
> weeks that I'm hoping that sharing this I might be able to get some
> answers or support or both.

I hope you're feeling better soon.  Let's go on the basis it is herpes and
so I'll remind you that simple soap and water kill the virus.  Wash
carefully and keep your hands clean so you won't worry about infecting your
daughter.

Take care,
ar
LosingSleep - 12 Apr 2006 10:24 GMT
Thanks Grant, I appreciate the feedback.  I'm grasping at anything at
this point to try and make sense of it all.  It feels so tortuous not
knowing.
grant - 12 Apr 2006 12:40 GMT
Absolutely.  Knowledge is power.

ar

> Thanks Grant, I appreciate the feedback.  I'm grasping at anything at
> this point to try and make sense of it all.  It feels so tortuous not
> knowing.
Mr.G - 13 Apr 2006 18:52 GMT
Hi and relax cause you are probably lowering your immune system. About
your daughter, the only way she can get it is by skin-to-skin contact
near large blood cells (like in the groin area). You can't "leave"
Herpes bacteria laying around. (maybe very moist places can sustain
them for a short time but not for long) but the less contact for long
periods of time with your dauhgter during a brakeout the better. The
key word here is brakeout. If you have herpes you will be getting
bleeding sores (that's a brakeout). They will leave blood on your
underwear that's how bad they get. Do relax
grant - 13 Apr 2006 23:52 GMT
Hi Mr. G,

You've got some good advice mixed up with some not-so-good advice.  I'll try
to separate the two:

Yes, worrying can lower your immune system.

You are incorrect about skin-to-skin contact near large blood vessels.  I'm
not sure where that comes from.  It would be very difficult to pass it on to
this man's daughter but it is still a very honest worry.  Anyway,
skin-to-skin contact from any location, as long as that location is
currently shedding the virus, can result in a transmission.

Herpes isn't a bacteria, it's a virus.

And yes, a warm, moist place could sustain the virus for a short amount of
time, as you mentioned.

It's possible to pass on the virus anytime it is shedding.  That means when
there is an obvious outbreak or asymptomatic shedding.  Asymptomatic means
without symptoms and that's how most people seem to contract herpes--when
there are no symptoms present.

Bleeding sores?  Perhaps for some.  But for many, that just ain't so.  A
tingle, a rash, a small bump that looks like a pimple...all herpes
outbreaks.  Or, of course, no symptoms at all.

ar

> Hi and relax cause you are probably lowering your immune system. About
> your daughter, the only way she can get it is by skin-to-skin contact
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> bleeding sores (that's a brakeout). They will leave blood on your
> underwear that's how bad they get. Do relax
M2slo2cht@nospam.invalid - 16 Apr 2006 07:35 GMT
> the only way she can get it is by skin-to-skin contact
>near large blood cells (like in the groin area).

Large blood cells??
Well.... the skin to skin contact is correct. But it needs to be from
skin that is shedding virus (groin area is likely and the rest of the
boxer shorts area is possible too, especially the penis for guys) to
skin that is vulnerable. That'd be mucous membrane (thin skin) type
skin or normal skin at sites of cuts or abrasion. Normal undamaged
skin is usually too thick for the virus to penetrate. Not saying it's
impossible under certain conditions, just very unlikely.

>You can't "leave"
>Herpes bacteria laying around. (maybe very moist places can sustain
>them for a short time but not for long)

Herpes is a virus but you've got the right idea here.

>If you have herpes you will be getting
>bleeding sores

Bleeding sores sounds like something other than Herpes. Symptoms can
vary among individuals but "bleeding" isn't a symptom I've run across
unless maybe we're talking about causing it by severe scratching..

>Do relax

Good advice for anybody/everybody.

M2
LosingSleep - 07 May 2006 14:19 GMT
Thanks everyone for the support and information.  I do appreciate it.
I've had to try and take a break from reading and thinking about this,
less I lose my mind.  Here's the update and looking for thoughts.

HIV test came back negative.  Slept more than 2 hours for the first
time.  I took another HSV blood test 4 weeks after the first and again
got back negative to both HSV1 and HSV2.  The test is the HerpesSelect
and here are the results:

First test:
HSV1 IGG AB     .18
HSV2 IGG AB     .08

Second test:
HSV1 IGG AB     .83
HSV2 IGG AB     .13

Reference range:   < 0.90 negative;  .090 - 1.10 equivocal;   > 1.10
Postive

Anyone with any thoughts on this or similar results that proved later
one way or the other?  Results best guess at this point, no more recent
than 14 weeks on the first and 18 on the second test.

This is making my head hurt.   The doctor mentioned that I might be
slow to build antibodies.  He asked about HIV and steroids; two things
that might slow immune response; HIV if it were in later stages.  I'm
not high risk and I've had 3 hiv tests in the last 8 years; 2 as part
of live insurance and the one I mentioned so not likely.  No steroids.
I haven't had another outbreak (that I know of) and I rarely get sick.

I asked the doctor about the more than 4.5 times increase in antibodies
on the HSV1 and that my last encounter was oral, but he didn't seem to
think much of it.  He said the HSV1 results are trickier.  Never had a
cold sore in my life (that I know of) and I haven't had a chance to
talk to him to see what he meant by that.  Maybe doesn't believe it's 1
since it's happened twice and the second being worse than the first
(groin lymph swelling and all).  The doctor mentioned that I could take
another blood test in a month to see if I'm just building slow
antibodies on HSV2.  He said not many, but some do.  And to come back
immediately for a culture if I have more sores. The nurse there was
very surprised I was even thinking about taking another test given the
two negative blood test results.

Now I'm left wondering if I've got some immune system problem and that
I'm more infectious to people because of it.   Some days I've had to
stop thinking about this completely.  My mind travels in circles.  One
day I'm convinced this couldn't be anything else and then I think maybe
it was some thing else.  It just seems that no matter what, this is the
most simple explanation and way to big of a coincindence to be anything
else.

So here I am.  Two negative results and and the choice of walking away
from this assuming it was something else and wait for the symptoms to
manifest themself again to prove one way or the other, or get a Herpes
Specific Western Blot test done and try to find out for sure.  I don't
think I can stand the anxiety of another HerpesSelect test that comes
back with no definite answers.

Anyone out there get multiple negatives on the Herpes Select and then
test postive on the Western Blot?
grant - 10 May 2006 02:12 GMT
Hi,  I have no answers for you.  But if you have concerns about your immune
system, check into seeing an immunologist.  I think that might help?   The
Western Blot will answer your herpes questions.

ar

> Thanks everyone for the support and information.  I do appreciate it.
> I've had to try and take a break from reading and thinking about this,
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
> Anyone out there get multiple negatives on the Herpes Select and then
> test postive on the Western Blot?
M2slo2cht@nospam.invalid - 16 Apr 2006 07:32 GMT
There's not much I can add to what Ar has already posted. So this'll
be somewhat of a repeat.

>Has anyone tested negative to the test (I'm pretty
>sure it's the better of the blood tests since he said it tells which)
>after this time period and later tested positive?

Most of the latest blood tests are pretty accurate after 16 weeks. But
a few people, very few, take longer to build up antibodies. If you're
healthy in general and have no reason to believe your immune system is
compromised, I'd bet on the original test result. Won't hurt to do it
again later though.

>2 Do your antibodies start building from the day you were infected or
>from your first outbreak?

From the time you're infected.  Most people never have an outbreak.
They have antibodies though.

>Is it possible that it's genital HSVI and
>the antibodies would take longer to develop since the virus doesn't do
>as well genitally?

No, not really. Type 1 genital antibodies should develop as quickly as
type 2.

>3.  I never saw any blisters that I read about, these were more like
>little brown spots that got a little bigger.  Never really hurt unless
>you touched them.

Doesn't sound like classic symptoms but that doesn't mean anything.
Herpes symptoms are extremely varied in different people.

>4.  Has anyone had similar symptoms and it turned out to be something
>else?

Over the years, we've had several people here that thought they had
Herpes but turned out they were wrong. I remember one in particular
that was totally convinced and wouldn't even consider the possibility
that he was wrong. Turned out to be a fungus.

M2
 
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