Hi RDL,
There is a fellow here named Tim who will be able to give you very detailed
answers to your questions. I have trouble keeping the Elisa verbage
straight so I won't even try to go there. But, I can answer your questions
in regard to the Western Blot. Keep reading for my responses:
> --Anyone out there have a case like mine? E.g. where they are tested
> as positive for their IgM (the initial immune antibody response) with
> a TITER at the peak of the Equivocal range?
I only had the WB.
> --Am I correct in assuming that the Equivocal range is a "gray area"
> of sorts?
Have no idea.
> --If my Western Blot does end up coming back with a postive HSV1 or
> HSV2, is it safe to say that given:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> the virus? In other words, is it safe to conclude that the infection
> was recent?
It takes 12 to 16 weeks for enough antibodies to build up in your body for
an accurate blood test. Those readings in the Elisa can tell you if your
infection is new or not. However, that isn't the case for the WB.
Basically, if you test positive for the WB and it has been 12 to 16 weeks
since your infection, then you can safely say you've had herpes anywhere
from 12 years to 12 weeks. If you test negative, and you haven't waited the
12 to 16 weeks, you may want another retest just to make sure you are
negative.
Someone like Tim or MLS will have to answer the specific Elisa questions.
> --Is it possible for artifact immune complexes to effectively confuse
> antibody measurements and immunoassays such as ELISA?
> (NOTE: the accuracy of the current ELISA immunoassay is 97%, and its
> specificity is also 97%)
I don't think so.
> --Anybody know of any relationship between immunological responses due
> to chronic fatigue syntrom and re-activation of mono-causing herpes
> viruses (EBV, HHV-6, or CMV)? Would such a re-activation warrant an
> HSV IgM response from an ELISA?
I don't think so. I do believe that they won't effect the WB.
> --Is there any evidence that vaccines such as Hepititus A and others
> play a significant role in complicating immunoassay results?
No
> --I've had my rash for over a month...would it be possible for an
> outbreak to last that long? I didn't think so, but I suppose it could
> be 2 outbreaks right in a row. Of course, I could test positive for
> herpes simplex and ALSO have an unrelated rash; I know that is a
> possibility as well.
Yes, your outbreak could indeed be lasting that long.
Make sure you let us know what the WB results are.
ar
RDLaing - 04 Oct 2003 19:39 GMT
Thanks so much for your quick responses! From what I've read about
this group, it is full of wonderfully kind and helpful people!
I'll wait for a response from one of the people you mentioned...thanks
again!
Take care,
-RDL
> Hi RDL,
>
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
>
> ar
Grant - 04 Oct 2003 19:58 GMT
Thanks for the compliments. :) We really appreciate it.
The weekends are a little slow around here but no one should have to wait
more than a few hours for a response. :)
ar
> Thanks so much for your quick responses! From what I've read about
> this group, it is full of wonderfully kind and helpful people!
[quoted text clipped - 74 lines]
> >
> > ar
Newbie - 05 Oct 2003 04:02 GMT
> Thanks so much for your quick responses! From what I've read about
> this group, it is full of wonderfully kind and helpful people!
I've been impressed as well - <see above thread I started>
Tim
(but not the one he meant)
>Hi all,
Howdy!
>INTRO & BACKGROUND:
>I recently found out that I tested positive on an ELISA blood test
>(Quest Diagnostics...check out their stock people!). I got the test
>when I had what appeared to be a fungal infection, however right away
>I thought...herpes??
>Not to unfairly dismiss the *young* Dr. I saw, but I reasoned that it
>was possibly an atypical presentation of the virus.
>Here are the details of my blood test results:
>-------------+--------+--------------------+-------------+----+------+
> Test | Low | Normal | High |Flag| Ref |
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>HSV IGM TITER| | | 1.10 | H |N<1.10|
>-------------+--------+--------------------+-------------+----+------+
>--I have a rash that prompted my virst visit to the Dr. It has lasted
>well over a month now, and appears to get worse at times, and better
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>could be much worse off. Best of all, I am much more sensitive to the
>AIDS issues today.
>QUESTIONS:
>Before even asking my questions, I want everyone to know that I got
>blood drawn for the HSV Western Blot (ah yes, the "gold standard") and
>should get the results in about a week. Now, on to the questions...
>--Anyone out there have a case like mine? E.g. where they are tested
>as positive for their IgM (the initial immune antibody response) with
>a TITER at the peak of the Equivocal range?
Yours is the closest I've seen to Equivocal in my four years here.
>--Am I correct in assuming that the Equivocal range is a "gray area"
>of sorts?
That's how I've always thought of it, but that raises the question of
how many shades of gray are there?
>--If my Western Blot does end up coming back with a postive HSV1 or
>HSV2, is it safe to say that given:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>the virus? In other words, is it safe to conclude that the infection
>was recent?
Was there a positive IgM response? I wasn't sure from the chart
above, but if so, I would say that your conclusions about the
infection are correct, ie., that the IgM response indicates a recent
infection and that your sexual history supports the contention.
>--Is it possible for artifact immune complexes to effectively confuse
>antibody measurements and immunoassays such as ELISA?
>(NOTE: the accuracy of the current ELISA immunoassay is 97%, and its
>specificity is also 97%)
If I understand the question I'd say that it isn't likely that any
ancillary immune problems you have would confuse the "tests", but that
any such immune aberrations might very well skew the characteristics
of your antibody populations.
>--Anybody know of any relationship between immunological responses due
>to chronic fatigue syntrom and re-activation of mono-causing herpes
>viruses (EBV, HHV-6, or CMV)? Would such a re-activation warrant an
>HSV IgM response from an ELISA?
That's a good question, I suppose, but wholly guessing, I would say,
no. I can't remember ever hearing of any possible cross-reactivity
along the lines you're suggesting. I would think that the Simplex
branch of the family is sufficiently separate from the others that the
tests would not be confused by multiple or separate immune responses.
>--Is there any evidence that vaccines such as Hepititus A and others
>play a significant role in complicating immunoassay results?
Not that I've heard of.
>--I've had my rash for over a month...would it be possible for an
>outbreak to last that long? I didn't think so, but I suppose it could
>be 2 outbreaks right in a row. Of course, I could test positive for
>herpes simplex and ALSO have an unrelated rash; I know that is a
>possibility as well.
Some people have continuous (or nearly so) outbreaks, especially
following primary infection.
Have you tried Acyclovir or Valtrex?
>Thanks everyone and much love to you all.
You're welcome and likewise.
Take care,
Mike
RDLaing - 05 Oct 2003 08:02 GMT
Mike,
Thanks for all your comments (sorry readers, you'll have to check
above).
Although I'm still waiting on my Western Blot, I now finally am
starting to have what looks like a typical "textbook" outbreak. I
will have to call my Doc and get one of the anti-virals.
I am worried, because my girlfriend gave it to me and still is in
denial about her having it in the first place. I hope to work
everything out with her. I insisted that she get the W.Blot as well.
If anyone is interested, I think that the IgM test shows up as a graph
with one curve ("band") for negative and two for positive. So, in the
end it doesn't matter how close to the equivocal range I was. I just
happened to catch it before my body really responded.
I am lucky to count myself amoung people as caring as you all here.
I am also optimistic especially in light of the broccoli news
(WebMD)...I have a feeling that is the key to ridding us all of
outbreaks; it sounds rather promising. :)
Folks, you'll quickly find I'm a big fan of interesting quotes. I
hope nobody minds. :)
Thanks Mike!
-RDL
"...We're all ignorant to AIDS, 'til it happens to you..."
-2pac
"Long before a thermonuclear war can come about, we have had to lay
waste to our own sanity. We begin with the children. It is imperative
to catch them in time. Without the most thorough and rapid
brain-washing their dirty minds would see through our dirty tricks.
Children are not yet fools, but we shall turn them into imbeciles like
ourselves, with high I.Q.s if possible."
-(the real) RD Laing
"Its difficult to believe that such wide-spread violence [that girls
twelve years old in the United States now stand a twenty to thirty
percent chance of being violently sexually assaulted in their
lifetimes] is the responsibility of a small lunatic fringe of
psychopathic men. That sexual violence is so pervasive supports the
view that the locus of violence against women rests squarely in the
middle of what our culture defines as "normal" interactions between
men and women. The numbers reiterate a reality that American women
have lived with for years: sexual violence against women is part of
the every-day fabric of American life."
-Alan Griswold Johnson
Grant - 05 Oct 2003 11:19 GMT
RD,
You are talking my diet? My FAVORITE subject!!!!
The best way to fight the virus is to have a healthy immune system. That
means eating healthy foods and NOT eating unhealthy foods. Unhealthy foods
include anything that has refined sugar, bleached flour or other nasty
chemicals in it. Also, you have to exercise and get plenty of rest.
I eat a diet of primarily raw foods. Mostly fruits and veggies, no animal
products except I like to cheat with cheese. :) I haven't had an outbreak
in years. However, I didn't have outbreaks before I changed my diet,
either, so you can discount that. :)
Eating just broccoli isn't good for you. It really is all about a balanced
diet. Up the good foods, cut out the bad. Your body will thank you.
ar
"RDLaing" <rdlaing2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> I am also optimistic especially in light of the broccoli news
> (WebMD)...I have a feeling that is the key to ridding us all of
> outbreaks; it sounds rather promising. :)
RDLaing - 05 Oct 2003 19:58 GMT
> RD,
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> include anything that has refined sugar, bleached flour or other nasty
> chemicals in it. Also, you have to exercise and get plenty of rest.
I am naturally a pretty health eater, and fortunately I have a very
good immune system. I love running and basketball, so exercise won't
be an issue either.
Of course, I'm not eating JUST broccoli! :)
Thanks ar!
-RDL
> I eat a diet of primarily raw foods. Mostly fruits and veggies, no animal
> products except I like to cheat with cheese. :) I haven't had an outbreak
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> > (WebMD)...I have a feeling that is the key to ridding us all of
> > outbreaks; it sounds rather promising. :)
RDLaing - 05 Oct 2003 20:03 GMT
> RD,
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> include anything that has refined sugar, bleached flour or other nasty
> chemicals in it. Also, you have to exercise and get plenty of rest.
I am naturally a pretty health eater, and fortunately I have a very
good imune system. I love running and basketball, so exercise won't
be an issue either.
Of course, I'm not eating JUST broccoli! :)
Thanks ar!
-RDL
> I eat a diet of primarily raw foods. Mostly fruits and veggies, no animal
> products except I like to cheat with cheese. :) I haven't had an outbreak
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> > (WebMD)...I have a feeling that is the key to ridding us all of
> > outbreaks; it sounds rather promising. :)
RDLaing - 29 Oct 2003 01:53 GMT
Just wanted to follow up with everyone...I got my Western Blot results
and they all came back NEGATIVE. Just goes to show you that it IS
possible to get a false positive (on an ELISA test).
Grant - my theory was right, the 1.10 WAS inside the equivacal ("gray
area") range...
To everyone out there who was not so lucky...you are some of the most
caring and wonderful people I have ever encountered. Were the world
made up of only all of you, there'd be no need for heaven. I'll be
following anti-viral progress in the hopes for a cure. Each and every
one of you are in my prayers every night.
God Bless!
-RDL
Grant - 29 Oct 2003 02:24 GMT
RDLaing,
What a wondeful post. Both for your results and for the wonderfully kind
words you said about us. :) Thank you so much.
Thanks you so much for coming back and giving us an update.
Take care,
ar
> Just wanted to follow up with everyone...I got my Western Blot results
> and they all came back NEGATIVE. Just goes to show you that it IS
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> -RDL
M.L.S. - 29 Oct 2003 15:12 GMT
>Just wanted to follow up with everyone...I got my Western Blot results
>and they all came back NEGATIVE. Just goes to show you that it IS
>possible to get a false positive (on an ELISA test).
>Grant - my theory was right, the 1.10 WAS inside the equivacal ("gray
>area") range...
>To everyone out there who was not so lucky...you are some of the most
>caring and wonderful people I have ever encountered. Were the world
>made up of only all of you, there'd be no need for heaven. I'll be
>following anti-viral progress in the hopes for a cure. Each and every
>one of you are in my prayers every night.
>God Bless!
That's good news, indeed. The good ol' Western Blot! Thanks for
coming back and letting us know.
Take care out there, k?
Mike